Board 8 > TLJ and Solo might be the last straw for Kathleen Kennedy

(+) Yeah! (+)

How has no one pointed out the fact that this rumor comes from a no-name "newsletter" that just says "The talk out there is of a September changing of the guards. We'll see."

No sources, nothing.
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Lopen posted...

OT Luke's reaction to "creating another Kylo" is to "fight to the death to try and turn him back to the light and undo your mistake" not "curl in a ball and run away" btw

What makes me love TLJ Luke is that this is what he, in fact, ended up doing, but only after facing down his own crippling self-doubt.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Lopen posted...

OT Luke's reaction to "creating another Kylo" is to "fight to the death to try and turn him back to the light and undo your mistake" not "curl in a ball and run away" btw

Question since youre clearly more invested in Star Wars than I am:

Would Luke have fought to bring out the good in Vader if he wasnt his father?

Granted Kylo is his nephew so he has skin in that fight too.

No, Luke wouldn't have. Through being his son, he saw the good in him.
It would take a scenario where he saw the good in a person for him to try to redeem him. He isn't going to see the good in a rando he never met before or has a link to.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Would Luke have fought to bring out the good in Vader if he wasnt his father?

Granted Kylo is his nephew so he has skin in that fight too.

Probably not but I would argue "nephew who you presumably had experience with as a good person beforehand + you made the screw-up" is more skin in the fight than Vader being his father he never once met.
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Shaduln posted...

How has no one pointed out the fact that this rumor comes from a no-name "newsletter" that just says "The talk out there is of a September changing of the guards. We'll see."

No sources, nothing.

"might" is a key word in the title.
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Corrik posted...

Shaduln posted...

How has no one pointed out the fact that this rumor comes from a no-name "newsletter" that just says "The talk out there is of a September changing of the guards. We'll see."

No sources, nothing.

"might" is a key word in the title.

I don't disagree, but honestly the article has as much clout as if I posted a topic saying "The talk is there will be a new Chrono game announced at E3".
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Jakyl25 posted...

What makes me love TLJ Luke is that this is what he, in fact, ended up doing, but only after facing down his own crippling self-doubt.

"To the death" is the only thing similar to what I said to what he did there. He mostly just arrogantly taunted Kylo. There was no attempt to undo any sort of mistake there.
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Shaduln posted...

Corrik posted...

Shaduln posted...

How has no one pointed out the fact that this rumor comes from a no-name "newsletter" that just says "The talk out there is of a September changing of the guards. We'll see."

No sources, nothing.

"might" is a key word in the title.

I don't disagree, but honestly the article has as much clout as if I posted a topic saying "The talk is there will be a new Chrono game announced at E3".

True.

It is a rumor.
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This convo reminds me how much I love Kylo Ren as a concept
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Jakyl25 posted...

Hot take: Luke in the films never had an established character before TLJ. Just a Jedi puppet that made one strong, righteous choice at the end.

what the actual fuck
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Hey its been amended to two choices. One poor, one righteous!
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i understand exactly 0% about the "if you don't face difficult choices you don't have an established character" logic.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i understand exactly 0% about the "if you don't face difficult choices you don't have an established character" logic.

It means I dont really know what you stand for outside of blindly following orders of the people (and green swamp dwellers) youve decided to give control of your life to because they sold you on hokey religions and ancient weapons.

I posit that Luke joined the Rebels not out of some sense of right and wrong, but rather that it was his only real choice after his Aunt and Uncle died
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Following what someone says is a choice anyways. He didn't have to go to Dagobah for example.

He also made a choice to turn off his lightsaber at the end. I mean, he made tons of choices. His choices spoke to his character being that he trusted in the force, father, and his friends above all. He was exactly what Jedi hated in that he valued attachment over being a Jedi. And he was able to do it without being emotional and fall to the dark side which by being a weapon of the Jedi he in ways proved all their teachings fallible.
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Jakyl25 posted...

It means I dont really know what you stand for outside of blindly following orders of the people (and green swamp dwellers) youve decided to give control of your life to because they sold you on hokey religions and ancient weapons.

spoilers: characters that blindly follow orders can still have well defined personalities. (hell, that can be a huge part OF their personality, even.)

i guess most characters in saving private ryan aren't actually characters either. they're just following orders!
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

spoilers: characters that blindly follow orders can still have well defined personalities. (hell, that can be a huge part OF their personality, even.)

Sure, but I dont think thats what they were going for with Luke

I think hes more or less just meant to be an avatar for the viewer. He does what YOU would hope to do in every situation in A New Hope
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I would never whine about going to tosche station to pick up power converters
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You would if the alternative was giving R2 a sponge bath
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R2 is adorable and he was badly needing cosmetic maintenance I do not concur
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Anyone who thinks Solo bombed because of TLJ backlash might be slow.
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Jakyl25 posted...

He does what YOU would hope to do in every situation in A New Hope

well yes, he's the main character in a story that's basically the hero's journey. but he probably has the most character development (from whiny, insecure kid on a farm to badass jedi) out of all the characters in the OT. to say he's some kind of self-insert silent protagonist is pretty inane.
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Ainoxi posted...

Anyone who thinks Solo bombed because of TLJ backlash might be slow.

A+ take here. Smooth.
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The guy's signature is "Butts." you should probably take it as a compliment.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I really came out of TLJ having more respect for Luke than ever, and its crazy to me that fans got mad that he had an emotional arc in the movie instead of just being a fully formed recluse badass from the jump

I have less respect for TLJ Luke, but I like him way more.

OT Luke had a personality and it was "generic hero." He was basically a stock character. TLJ Luke was not the hero's hero of heroism but his emotional arc made him feel like a real person, which to me is a lot more important.
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Drakeryn posted...

OT Luke had a personality and it was "generic hero." He was basically a stock character. TLJ Luke was not the hero's hero of heroism but his emotional arc made him feel like a real person, which to me is a lot more important.

Contrary to what you might think from my posts in this topic I actually like TLJ Luke more than OT Luke too

They're just not the same character to me without making huge leaps that weren't fleshed out in the movie, which is a big problem.
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Lopen posted...

Drakeryn posted...

OT Luke had a personality and it was "generic hero." He was basically a stock character. TLJ Luke was not the hero's hero of heroism but his emotional arc made him feel like a real person, which to me is a lot more important.

Contrary to what you might think from my posts in this topic I actually like TLJ Luke more than OT Luke too

They're just not the same character to me without making huge leaps that weren't fleshed out in the movie, which is a big problem.

I don't. But, Luke is hardly the most glaring problem with the movie.

However, that said, I figure the most that would not see an ensuing movie to backlash would be more of the what they did to Luke killed the franchise to me crowd.
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Somehow after two pages the dumbest thing in this topic is corrik feeling the need to quote Jakyl just to add "IMO".

Like some kind of alternate universe Luster with a mustache.
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Lopen posted...

They're just not the same character to me without making huge leaps that weren't fleshed out in the movie, which is a big problem.

I agree with this mostly

I guess as a WWE viewer Im trained to create character development in my head when none is provided to me
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Jakyl25 posted...

I guess as a WWE viewer Im trained to create character development in my head when none is provided to me

Hahaha. I almost said this myself about you earlier but chose not to.
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I feel like if the lukewarm reaction to Solo was purely or mostly TLJ backlash, but the movie is actually pretty decent by those fans standards, word of mouth should cause it to have long legs.

I dunno though, Im a casual who hasnt seen it because I have no interest in the subject matter. Still havent seen Rogue One either. Just the numbered ones.
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TLJ didn't do much for me, solo was better. But Im not a big star wars nut tbh
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I was indifferent about TLJ and have heard it's a fantastic movie from my Star Wars-crazy friend.
I'm no Star Wars-nut though.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I feel like if the lukewarm reaction to Solo was purely or mostly TLJ backlash, but the movie is actually pretty decent by those fans standards, word of mouth should cause it to have long legs.

I dunno though, Im a casual who hasnt seen it because I have no interest in the subject matter. Still havent seen Rogue One either. Just the numbered ones.

I think it's mostly the interaction of what TLJ backlash there was with the other issues-- like I've said a few times already that I felt Rogue One was also poorly marketed. I feel like if you've got the support of the more hardcore Star Wars fans (which is where most of the backlash was felt) that poor marketing will hurt you less because they're going to actively be following anyway. Similarly I feel like if you've got the support of the more hardcore Star Wars fans, that you're more resistant to poorly choosing a release date because they're going to see it regardless and generate that buzz for you.

Overall release date is the biggest problem, but I think TLJ backlash, and I'm not saying it was an overwhelming amount of it by any means, but it did hit a key part of the Star Wars demographic more severely than the public at large, magnified everything.
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I don't know if this board is typical, but I heard a ton of pre-release anti-hype for Solo on its own merits. "The trailer looked awful," "this guy can't play Han at all," etc. It didn't seem like it had anything to do with TLJ.
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That's the way it was most places.

Although I literally don't know anybody who didn't like TLJ, so I'm sure region is a factor.
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TLJ doesn't necessarily have to be directly mentioned for it to factor into anti-hype. It's about the brand being tainted to some degree. It feels a lot more fallible now to a lot of people when it didn't before.

Like, don't get me wrong, the first two movies of the prequel trilogy were far worse than TLJ, but like, the marketing among the hardcore there was like... the entire trilogy was there to build up to Revenge of the Sith because that's where you get to see Anakin become Vader. To the nuts, this is important. There's still hype through two crummy movies because you've still got that main event to draw on. And in fact, despite the movies being bad they did provide interesting lore to help build that main event.

On the flip side, Consider instead if Lucas had kept Star Wars for The Force Awakens. I feel like you'd have seen a notable drop there had that occurred because there is no longer the build for how awesome RotS is going to be to carry and Lucas is still thought to be a crackpot. The Force Awakens was under new management though, so hype was as high as ever because there was hope that TFA would resurrect the franchise with that loon Lucas out of power.

Similarly, with The Force Awakens, the brand hadn't taken much damage because well, it was basically just a retread of A New Hope designed to make us get faith back-- a letter to the fanbase that says "hey we're sorry, we can still do this"-- we still had faith in the franchise because there was hype with what was going to happen once they started delving into original ideas. Now the original ideas have come, and they're found to be underwhelming to many-- and coming off of a total nothing movie like The Force Awakens that's not a good thing since we basically wasted an entire movie on nothing new before this.

I mean it's possible I'm wrong, but I don't think Solo is going to be a one off thing. I'm not saying the next mainline movie is going to outright bomb ala Solo because it won't have all those other factors going against it that Solo did, but I do think it's going to be significantly below the mainline movies.
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Lopen posted...

do think it's going to be significantly below the mainline movies.

All the mainline movies, or just VII and VIII?
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Luke is really excellent in TLJ. It's really weird that a major problem people have with the movie when he's the most excellent thing about it (except for maybe Kylo Ren). It's literally everything else in the movie that sucks.

I don't really have any opinion on the purpose of this topic though. Who cares.
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i think the whole concept of a han solo movie was starting off on the wrong foot tbqh. hardcore fans have been screaming for an obi-wan movie for years (a big part of this was because mcgregor did such a great job with the character, of course), but very few of them were like "hey, you know what we really need? a HAN SOLO prequel movie!"

this just shows how superficially kennedy views this stuff and how out of touch she is with the hardcore fans. she probably just went "ok, who's the wolverine of the star wars universe? han solo? great, make a movie out of that guy!" and expected the fans to eat it up. didn't quite happen.
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Yeah, as a casual I have much more interest in learning more about Obi-Wan. I really dont care what Solo was doing before ANH. He comes so perfectly fully formed.

Though I guess the cartoons can give me more on Obi-Wan if I want it.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Yeah, as a casual I have much more interest in learning more about Obi-Wan. I really dont care what Solo was doing before ANH. He comes so perfectly fully formed.

Though I guess the cartoons can give me more on Obi-Wan if I want it.

I could care less about obi also. I mean, he was supposed to be laying low. What are we supposed to be seeing here?
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I don't really want to get into movie attendance inflation and normal inflation in determining this, so I'll just predict numbers closer to Solo than to The Force Awakens-- let's say sub Rogue One numbers and leave it at that.
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As a casual, I like Han and don't particularly like Obi-Wan, so I'm much more interested in a Han movie. Obi-Wan movie could be good but I'd need convincing, you know?
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Drakeryn posted...

As a casual, I like Han and don't particularly like Obi-Wan, so I'm much more interested in a Han movie. Obi-Wan movie could be good but I'd need convincing, you know?

I mean, Han Solo is countlessly a better character, but that is all Harrison Ford. It is wrong to even ask someone else to try and recreate it. That said, that guy is probably the closest they could get and I have yet to see the movie to see how he does. I suspect I will like Han Solo when I see it.
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Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Yeah, as a casual I have much more interest in learning more about Obi-Wan. I really dont care what Solo was doing before ANH. He comes so perfectly fully formed.

Though I guess the cartoons can give me more on Obi-Wan if I want it.

I could care less about obi also. I mean, he was supposed to be laying low. What are we supposed to be seeing here?

I was thinking pre-Phantom Menace

But sure, we could do Ben Kenobis Podracing Gambling Addiction story

He actually had a nice studio apartment in Mos Eisley before he lost it all betting on an aging Sebulba
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http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2018-06-08-early-look-at-the-last-jedi-blu-ray-sales/

Looks like TLJ only did basically Rogue One numbers on DVD. And is going to be around half of TFA or so.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Corrik posted...

Jakyl25 posted...

Yeah, as a casual I have much more interest in learning more about Obi-Wan. I really dont care what Solo was doing before ANH. He comes so perfectly fully formed.

Though I guess the cartoons can give me more on Obi-Wan if I want it.

I could care less about obi also. I mean, he was supposed to be laying low. What are we supposed to be seeing here?

I was thinking pre-Phantom Menace

But sure, we could do Ben Kenobis Podracing Gambling Addiction story

He actually had a nice studio apartment in Mos Eisley before he lost it all betting on an aging Sebulba

So then you are going to recast obi wan also.
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Corrik posted...

I could care less about obi also. I mean, he was supposed to be laying low. What are we supposed to be seeing here?

it doesn't have to take place in between RotS and ANH. you can set it before TPM. we know from legends novels that obi-wan stories from that period can be interesting. (you should probably use de-aging technology on mcgregor if you go that way, though.)
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Han and Obiwan movies both sound super lame. They both sound like just pandering to some name recognition rather than any actual inspiration for a cool story.
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CoolCly posted...

Han and Obiwan movies both sound super lame. They both sound like just pandering to some name recognition rather than any actual inspiration for a cool story.

Boba Fett interests me more depending on the direction they take it.
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