Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 180: The Summit All Fears

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MalcolmMasher 06/17/18 12:05:00 AM #301:	I am not concerned with what they claim; I wish to discern what you believe. Do you think that some people are more religious than other people are? --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:903412475] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>I am not concerned with what they claim; I wish to discern what you believe. Do you think that some people are more religious than other people are?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 12:08:27 AM #302:	MalcolmMasher posted... I am not concerned with what they claim; I wish to discern what you believe. Do you think that some people are more religious than other people are? Obviously. And I am not saying they actually claim to be religious. I'm saying they can claim it. That's my claim. Given any 2 particular people, I cannot know for sure who is more religious. However, I am fairly certain that some people are more religious than others, because it would be pretty amazing for 7 billion people to all somehow be equally religious. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903412635] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>MalcolmMasher posted...</cite> <quote>I am not concerned with what they claim; I wish to discern what you believe. Do you think that some people are more religious than other people are?</quote> Obviously. And I am not saying they actually claim to be religious. I'm saying they can claim it. That's my claim. Given any 2 particular people, I cannot know for sure who is more religious. However, I am fairly certain that some people are more religious than others, because it would be pretty amazing for 7 billion people to all somehow be equally religious.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 06/17/18 12:51:07 AM #303:	OK. So you acknowledge that people can be less religious, or more religious. But what they actually believe in, and whether they believe in it or believe in not-it, is irrelevant to whether they are more or less religious. Bluntly, I think your definition sucks. According to you, all people are religious. That makes the term rather useless. It isn't entirely useless, because you do at least retain the ability to distinguish between weak and strong beliefs, although I find that words like "zealous" suffice for that. However, I also think that your definition differs enough from the typical definition that it will impair your ability to communicate with other English speakers. That if you were to say say "only religious people can make moral decisions", the rest of the world will not hear "all humans can make moral decisions". Do you agree that this is a potential conversational pitfall? --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:903414639] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>OK. So you acknowledge that people can be less religious, or more religious. But what they actually believe in, and whether they believe in it or believe in not-it, is irrelevant to whether they are more or less religious. Bluntly, I think your definition sucks. According to you, all people are religious. That makes the term rather useless. It isn't entirely useless, because you do at least retain the ability to distinguish between weak and strong beliefs, although I find that words like "zealous" suffice for that. However, I also think that your definition differs enough from the typical definition that it will impair your ability to communicate with other English speakers. That if you were to say say "only religious people can make moral decisions", the rest of the world will not hear "all humans can make moral decisions". Do you agree that this is a potential conversational pitfall?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 1:19:52 AM #304:	MalcolmMasher posted... OK. So you acknowledge that people can be less religious, or more religious. But what they actually believe in, and whether they believe in it or believe in not-it, is irrelevant to whether they are more or less religious. Bluntly, I think your definition sucks. According to you, all people are religious. That makes the term rather useless. It isn't entirely useless, because you do at least retain the ability to distinguish between weak and strong beliefs, although I find that words like "zealous" suffice for that. However, I also think that your definition differs enough from the typical definition that it will impair your ability to communicate with other English speakers. That if you were to say say "only religious people can make moral decisions", the rest of the world will not hear "all humans can make moral decisions". Do you agree that this is a potential conversational pitfall? I don't see how I would ever make that statement. If any expression of moral judgment is religious, then it would be tautological. If that's not the framework we're using, then it wouldn't be something I believe and I'm not even sure what exactly that statement would mean. I do understand how some people use it - but the way they use it appears to be an incoherent statement to me. And the people who say that usually are not able to articulate any definition of religion. So, I simply wouldn't say such things. I also don't hear anyone in this topic arguing that "only religious people can make moral decisions." And, the point of the First Amendment is precisely to avoid differentiating between people based on religion. The government is not supposed to decide who is and isn't religious, or what religions are legitimate religions, and treat them differently depending on that determination. So, if you are saying that my definition does not distinguish between people based on religion - that's exactly right. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903415858] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>MalcolmMasher posted...</cite> <quote>OK. So you acknowledge that people can be less religious, or more religious. But what they actually believe in, and whether they believe in it or believe in not-it, is irrelevant to whether they are more or less religious. Bluntly, I think your definition sucks. According to you, all people are religious. That makes the term rather useless. It isn't entirely useless, because you do at least retain the ability to distinguish between weak and strong beliefs, although I find that words like "zealous" suffice for that. However, I also think that your definition differs enough from the typical definition that it will impair your ability to communicate with other English speakers. That if you were to say say "only religious people can make moral decisions", the rest of the world will not hear "all humans can make moral decisions". Do you agree that this is a potential conversational pitfall?</quote> I don't see how I would ever make that statement. If any expression of moral judgment is religious, then it would be tautological. If that's not the framework we're using, then it wouldn't be something I believe and I'm not even sure what exactly that statement would mean. I do understand how some people use it - but the way they use it appears to be an incoherent statement to me. And the people who say that usually are not able to articulate any definition of religion. So, I simply wouldn't say such things. I also don't hear anyone in this topic arguing that "only religious people can make moral decisions." And, the point of the First Amendment is precisely to avoid differentiating between people based on religion. The government is not supposed to decide who is and isn't religious, or what religions are legitimate religions, and treat them differently depending on that determination. So, if you are saying that my definition does not distinguish between people based on religion - that's exactly right.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 06/17/18 2:03:09 AM #305:	red sox 777, I do agree that, coming from you personally, the statement "only religious people can make moral decisions" is meaningless, and that there is therefore no practical reason for you to make it. (Although I'll note that your "if you can come up with a distinction between [morals and religion], I'm all ears" comment, spoken to people who were expecting the conventional use of "religion" and not the one which you personally employ, is what kicked off this tangent.) However, as you acknowledge, other people use the word in other ways. Some of these people may well be "incoherent" and "not able to articulate any definition of religion", but I believe that they also have you outnumbered. (Offhand, the only time I recall seeing the view advocated on this very board, the poster was citing their deity specifically rather than religion in general as a requirement for morality. We might conceivably consider that a distinct issue. But I think you'll find that I am not the only one in this topic who would say that "atheist" and "religious person" are mutually exclusive.) --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:903417668] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>red sox 777, I do agree that, coming from you personally, the statement "only religious people can make moral decisions" is meaningless, and that there is therefore no practical reason for you to make it. (Although I'll note that your "if you can come up with a distinction between [morals and religion], I'm all ears" comment, spoken to people who were expecting the conventional use of "religion" and not the one which you personally employ, is what kicked off this tangent.) However, as you acknowledge, other people use the word in other ways. Some of these people may well be "incoherent" and "not able to articulate any definition of religion", but I believe that they also have you outnumbered. (Offhand, the only time I recall seeing the view advocated on this very board, the poster was citing their deity specifically rather than religion in general as a requirement for morality. We might conceivably consider that a distinct issue. But I think you'll find that I am not the only one in this topic who would say that "atheist" and "religious person" are mutually exclusive.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 2:20:31 AM #306:	It's true that people use it in the sense that you describe, but, to my knowledge, no one in this topic does. This discussion originated out of Jeff Sessions' citation of the Bible in support of his policy of separating children from their parents. To my reading of the Bible, that is exactly the opposite of what it says and the policy is not Christian or Biblical. But Jeff Sessions disagrees, and he is entitled to disagree - I don't get to say that he isn't being Christian, and, as far as the law and constitution are concerned, his religion is equally valid as mine, even if I think mine is supported by the text of the Bible. That's because the government is prohibited from judging between beliefs. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903418318] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>It's true that people use it in the sense that you describe, but, to my knowledge, no one in this topic does. This discussion originated out of Jeff Sessions' citation of the Bible in support of his policy of separating children from their parents. To my reading of the Bible, that is exactly the opposite of what it says and the policy is not Christian or Biblical. But Jeff Sessions disagrees, and he is entitled to disagree - I don't get to say that he isn't being Christian, and, as far as the law and constitution are concerned, his religion is equally valid as mine, even if I think mine is supported by the text of the Bible. That's because the government is prohibited from judging between beliefs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MalcolmMasher 06/17/18 3:27:07 AM #307:	It's true that people use it in the sense that you describe, but, to my knowledge, no one in this topic does Jakyl25 posted... Morality can and does exist without the need for metaphysical guidance, which to my knowledge is a pre-requisite for religion. red sox 777 posted... Not to mine. I mean, sure, you could define "religion" that way, but I don't think you have to. It is plain that your definition of "religion" is not universally adhered to within this topic. If you wish to continue undaunted and allow the misunderstandings to fall as they may... well, it's a free country. shrug I shall endeavor to recall your idiosyncrasy, anyhow, and I appreciate your willingness to clarify the matter. --- I don't like this duchy. Now, it's an adventurer. <cite>MalcolmMasher posted [p:903420221] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>It's true that people use it in the sense that you describe, but, to my knowledge, no one in this topic does <cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote>Morality can and does exist without the need for metaphysical guidance, which to my knowledge is a pre-requisite for religion.</quote> <cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Not to mine. I mean, sure, you could define "religion" that way, but I don't think you have to. </quote> It is plain that your definition of "religion" is not universally adhered to within this topic. If you wish to continue undaunted and allow the misunderstandings to fall as they may... well, it's a free country. shrug I shall endeavor to recall your idiosyncrasy, anyhow, and I appreciate your willingness to clarify the matter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 06/17/18 8:47:58 AM #308:	red sox 777 posted... MalcolmMasher posted... red sox 777: Do you consider atheism to be a religion? Of course. man i was trying really hard to take red sox seriously but then he does this --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:903426951] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>MalcolmMasher posted...</cite> <quote>red sox 777: Do you consider atheism to be a religion?</quote> Of course.</quote> man i was trying really hard to take red sox seriously but then he does this</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 06/17/18 9:14:45 AM #309:	Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate. https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1007662042587779072 11. Another group of evangelical leaders condemned the policy in a letter. Signers included Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, who read scripture at Trumps inauguration, as well as Leith Anderson, President of the National Association of Evangelicals https://t.co/v7PavkIkIu Regarding the policy of separating children from parents - we may have finally found an issue that evangelicals won't support trump on. The reverend who spoke at the inauguration has publicly condemned the administration's policy. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:903427773] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate. https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1007662042587779072 <quote>11. Another group of evangelical leaders condemned the policy in a letter. Signers included Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, who read scripture at Trumps inauguration, as well as Leith Anderson, President of the National Association of Evangelicals https://t.co/v7PavkIkIu</quote> Regarding the policy of separating children from parents - we may have finally found an issue that evangelicals won't support trump on. The reverend who spoke at the inauguration has publicly condemned the administration's policy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 06/17/18 9:19:49 AM #310:	Peace___Frog posted... Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate. i'm afraid he actually believes the "atheism is a religion" crap. you hear tons of christians use this logical fallacy to go "atheists are just as irrational as we are!!" --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:903427939] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote>Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate.</quote> i'm afraid he actually believes the "atheism is a religion" crap. you hear tons of christians use this logical fallacy to go "atheists are just as irrational as we are!!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 06/17/18 9:27:39 AM #311:	Ok so he's an imbecile then. Neat. Either way, it's not exactly much of a conversation. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:903428164] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Ok so he's an imbecile then. Neat. Either way, it's not exactly much of a conversation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 9:36:23 AM #312:	I've also heard plenty of Christians say that Christianity is not a religion. Because it's a relationship with God/The Truth. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903428414] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>I've also heard plenty of Christians say that Christianity is not a religion. Because it's a relationship with God/The Truth.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 9:39:34 AM #313:	Mr Lasastryke posted... Peace___Frog posted... Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate. i'm afraid he actually believes the "atheism is a religion" crap. you hear tons of christians use this logical fallacy to go "atheists are just as irrational as we are!!" Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves. The closest is Kierkegaard who says that faith is independent of reason, which is not the same thing as irrational. This rational/irrational thing sounds like a distinction created by atheists and projected onto Christians. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903428519] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote>Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate.</quote> i'm afraid he actually believes the "atheism is a religion" crap. you hear tons of christians use this logical fallacy to go "atheists are just as irrational as we are!!"</quote> Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves. The closest is Kierkegaard who says that faith is independent of reason, which is not the same thing as irrational. This rational/irrational thing sounds like a distinction created by atheists and projected onto Christians.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
XIII_rocks 06/17/18 9:46:02 AM #314:	Jesus christ even italicized exclamation marks now --- Not to be confused with XIII_Stones. <cite>XIII_rocks posted [p:903428711] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Jesus christ even italicized exclamation marks now</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LapisLazuli 06/17/18 9:52:27 AM #315:	Well, that last 10 hours of posts was a doozy. --- https://i.imgur.com/WuDQzsc_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium <cite>LapisLazuli posted [p:903428924] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Well, that last 10 hours of posts was a doozy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ashethan 06/17/18 9:53:43 AM #316:	Christians want Atheism to be a religion so they can try to shift the burden of proof. "Where's your proof there is no god?" --- Growing up, I wish some teacher told me "You probably won't ever need this, but if you don't learn it, you might miss out on something really cool." <cite>Ashethan posted [p:903428962] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Christians want Atheism to be a religion so they can try to shift the burden of proof. "Where's your proof there is no god?"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 9:57:54 AM #317:	Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903429132] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 06/17/18 10:11:21 AM #318:	red sox 777 posted... Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves. yeah, i phrased it incorrectly. what they say is "we're just as rational as atheists!!" --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:903429648] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves.</quote> yeah, i phrased it incorrectly. what they say is "we're just as rational as atheists!!"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 06/17/18 10:11:22 AM #319:	Peace___Frog posted... Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate. https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1007662042587779072 11. Another group of evangelical leaders condemned the policy in a letter. Signers included Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, who read scripture at Trumps inauguration, as well as Leith Anderson, President of the National Association of Evangelicals https://t.co/v7PavkIkIu Regarding the policy of separating children from parents - we may have finally found an issue that evangelicals won't support trump on. The reverend who spoke at the inauguration has publicly condemned the administration's policy. I dont believe actual loving evangelicals ever supported Trump. Not that they supported Hillary either. --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:903429651] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote>Ok, let's get past red sox being an edgy devil's advocate. https://twitter.com/jackmjenkins/status/1007662042587779072 <quote>11. Another group of evangelical leaders condemned the policy in a letter. Signers included Rev. Samuel Rodriguez, who read scripture at Trumps inauguration, as well as Leith Anderson, President of the National Association of Evangelicals https://t.co/v7PavkIkIu</quote> Regarding the policy of separating children from parents - we may have finally found an issue that evangelicals won't support trump on. The reverend who spoke at the inauguration has publicly condemned the administration's policy.</quote> I dont believe actual loving evangelicals ever supported Trump. Not that they supported Hillary either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 06/17/18 10:12:02 AM #320:	red sox 777 posted... Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof. no, atheists don't want to call atheism a religion because it isn't one. --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:903429678] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof.</quote> no, atheists don't want to call atheism a religion because it isn't one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 06/17/18 10:12:50 AM #321:	red sox 777 posted... Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves. Faith is by definition irrational. If you could prove it with reason, it wouldnt be something that needed to be believed. --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:903429707] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves.</quote> Faith is by definition irrational. If you could prove it with reason, it wouldnt be something that needed to be believed.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 10:13:36 AM #322:	Mr Lasastryke posted... red sox 777 posted... Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves. yeah, i phrased it incorrectly. what they say is "we're just as rational as atheists!!" At least as rational and with a better knowledge of the facts! --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903429742] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves.</quote> yeah, i phrased it incorrectly. what they say is "we're just as rational as atheists!!"</quote> At least as rational and with a better knowledge of the facts!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ashethan 06/17/18 10:14:03 AM #323:	red sox 777 posted... Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof. Burden of Proof IS on anyone saying there's a god. If I say "I am god." The burden of proof is on me to prove it, not for you to disprove it. --- Growing up, I wish some teacher told me "You probably won't ever need this, but if you don't learn it, you might miss out on something really cool." <cite>Ashethan posted [p:903429760] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof. </quote> Burden of Proof IS on anyone saying there's a god. If I say "I am god." The burden of proof is on me to prove it, not for you to disprove it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 10:14:18 AM #324:	Jakyl25 posted... red sox 777 posted... Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves. Faith is by definition irrational. If you could prove it with reason, it wouldnt be something that needed to be believed. That makes it independent of reason, not irrational. I would say arational, but I'm not sure that's a word. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903429774] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Actually, I haven't heard Christians claim to be irrational themselves.</quote> Faith is by definition irrational. If you could prove it with reason, it wouldnt be something that needed to be believed.</quote> That makes it independent of reason, not irrational. I would say arational, but I'm not sure that's a word.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 06/17/18 10:15:37 AM #325:	red sox 777 posted... At least as rational and with a better knowledge of the facts! how do christians have a better knowledge of the facts than atheists? --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:903429827] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>At least as rational and with a better knowledge of the facts!</quote> how do christians have a better knowledge of the facts than atheists?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 10:15:43 AM #326:	Ashethan posted... red sox 777 posted... Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof. Burden of Proof IS on anyone saying there's a god. If I say "I am god." The burden of proof is on me to prove it, not for you to disprove it. It really isn't. If you want to convince me, then perhaps it is, but if you believe that, it's obviously already proven to you. If I want to convince you otherwise, I'm gonna have to provide some convincing evidence. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903429829] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ashethan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Atheists don't want to call atheism a religion so they can make ridiculous arguments that people they disagree with have a burden of proof. </quote> Burden of Proof IS on anyone saying there's a god. If I say "I am god." The burden of proof is on me to prove it, not for you to disprove it.</quote> It really isn't. If you want to convince me, then perhaps it is, but if you believe that, it's obviously already proven to you. If I want to convince you otherwise, I'm gonna have to provide some convincing evidence.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 10:16:58 AM #327:	Mr Lasastryke posted... red sox 777 posted... At least as rational and with a better knowledge of the facts! how do christians have a better knowledge of the facts than atheists? Atheists don't think so! And Christians do! That's a disagreement on the facts. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903429874] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Mr Lasastryke posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>At least as rational and with a better knowledge of the facts!</quote> how do christians have a better knowledge of the facts than atheists?</quote> Atheists don't think so! And Christians do! That's a disagreement on the facts.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 06/17/18 10:37:32 AM #328:	Jakyl25 posted... I dont believe actual loving evangelicals ever supported Trump. Not that they supported Hillary either. What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? Also holy shit guys, you're talking to an actual brick wall. Let it go. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:903430751] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote>I dont believe actual loving evangelicals ever supported Trump. Not that they supported Hillary either.</quote> What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? Also holy shit guys, you're talking to an actual brick wall. Let it go.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 10:46:49 AM #329:	Evangelicals supported Trump bigly. They said they didn't but they voted for him en masse because he was the lesser of two evils. And he will always be the lesser of two evils no matter what unless the Democrats do a complete 180 degree turn on their social policies. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903431138] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Evangelicals supported Trump bigly. They said they didn't but they voted for him en masse because he was the lesser of two evils. And he will always be the lesser of two evils no matter what unless the Democrats do a complete 180 degree turn on their social policies.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 06/17/18 10:49:18 AM #330:	Peace___Frog posted... What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:903431238] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote> What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? </quote> I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SupremeZero 06/17/18 10:50:14 AM #331:	Jakyl25 posted... Peace___Frog posted... What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones Sounds oxymoronic --- There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover,God himself,be your hope. You have to be your own hope <cite>SupremeZero posted [p:903431284] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote> What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? </quote> I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones</quote> Sounds oxymoronic</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 10:50:26 AM #332:	Jakyl25 posted... Peace___Frog posted... What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones Does this category include evangelicals who love unborn babies a lot? --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903431294] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote> What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? </quote> I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones</quote> Does this category include evangelicals who love unborn babies a lot?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shaduln 06/17/18 10:54:31 AM #333:	This is why I hate religious arguments. Why does anyone need to prove anything? Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked. I'm perfectly happy with my view and don't care if anyone else agrees or approves of it. --- Posted using GameFlux Get it now for Android from Google Play! <cite>Shaduln posted [p:903431470] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>This is why I hate religious arguments. Why does anyone need to prove anything? Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked. I'm perfectly happy with my view and don't care if anyone else agrees or approves of it.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 06/17/18 10:55:19 AM #334:	Jakyl25 posted... Peace___Frog posted... What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones I don't imagine that the one who spoke at his inauguration was particularly loving, given that he spoke at trump's inauguration. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:903431516] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Peace___Frog posted...</cite> <quote> What about that poll that showed that they were the only religious group whose moral judgments on what the president should or shouldn't do changed dramatically from before and after the election? </quote> I specified loving evangelicals, not self-professed ones</quote> I don't imagine that the one who spoke at his inauguration was particularly loving, given that he spoke at trump's inauguration.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mr Lasastryke 06/17/18 10:55:43 AM #335:	red sox 777 posted... Does this category include evangelicals who love unborn babies a lot? oh my god --- Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta <cite>Mr Lasastryke posted [p:903431530] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Does this category include evangelicals who love unborn babies a lot?</quote> oh my god</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Jakyl25 06/17/18 10:57:46 AM #336:	Shaduln posted... Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked Because some religions literally command their followers to spread it --- Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRlKR5nU8AA_v_C?format=jpg&name=large <cite>Jakyl25 posted [p:903431618] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Shaduln posted...</cite> <quote>Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked</quote> Because some religions literally command their followers to spread it</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shaduln 06/17/18 11:06:36 AM #337:	Jakyl25 posted... Shaduln posted... Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked Because some religions literally command their followers to spread it I understand that, and I think sharing if asked complies with that. But again, that's just me. --- GameFlux: Unofficial GameFAQs board browser <cite>Shaduln posted [p:903431978] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Jakyl25 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Shaduln posted...</cite> <quote>Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked</quote> Because some religions literally command their followers to spread it</quote> I understand that, and I think sharing if asked complies with that. But again, that's just me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 11:11:22 AM #338:	I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903432131] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket 06/17/18 11:52:43 AM #339:	red sox 777 posted... I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings. Does this relate to the current discussion somehow? --- It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest <cite>redrocket posted [p:903434006] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings.</quote> Does this relate to the current discussion somehow?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HaRRicH 06/17/18 12:00:42 PM #340:	Ashethan posted... red sox 777 posted... Of course. So is one of your hobbies "not collecting stamps"? I like "not collecting stamps," do it all the time. --- Nominate METAL MAN for 20XX! https://imgur.com/Dr4NAeq <cite>HaRRicH posted [p:903434436] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Ashethan posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>Of course. </quote> So is one of your hobbies "not collecting stamps"?</quote> I like "not collecting stamps," do it all the time.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SupremeZero 06/17/18 12:00:58 PM #341:	redrocket posted... red sox 777 posted... I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings. Does this relate to the current discussion somehow? Why would you assume that. --- There's always hope for better things in life. But you can't let anything, friend, lover,God himself,be your hope. You have to be your own hope <cite>SupremeZero posted [p:903434446] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>redrocket posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings.</quote> Does this relate to the current discussion somehow?</quote> Why would you assume that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 12:04:04 PM #342:	redrocket posted... red sox 777 posted... I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings. Does this relate to the current discussion somehow? Yes, "loving evangelicals" was brought up as well as aggressive proselytizing and it made me think of that. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903434591] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>redrocket posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings.</quote> Does this relate to the current discussion somehow?</quote> Yes, "loving evangelicals" was brought up as well as aggressive proselytizing and it made me think of that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ashethan 06/17/18 12:10:38 PM #343:	Christians should honestly want to disavow Evangelicals at this point. Many of the Trump Evangelical supporters worship him instead of their favorite Jewish Carpenter. --- Growing up, I wish some teacher told me "You probably won't ever need this, but if you don't learn it, you might miss out on something really cool." <cite>Ashethan posted [p:903434868] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>Christians should honestly want to disavow Evangelicals at this point. Many of the Trump Evangelical supporters worship him instead of their favorite Jewish Carpenter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamikazePotato 06/17/18 12:26:16 PM #344:	But do I love how this topic series went from hundreds of posts of arguing with Corrik to hundreds of posts of arguing with red sox --- Black Turtle did a pretty good job. <cite>KamikazePotato posted [p:903435561] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>But do I love how this topic series went from hundreds of posts of arguing with Corrik to hundreds of posts of arguing with red sox</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Not_an_Owl 06/17/18 12:33:14 PM #345:	Shaduln posted... This is why I hate religious arguments. Why does anyone need to prove anything? Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked. Because Christians believe they're on a mission from god to save the world by making non-Christians Christian. --- Besides, marijuana is far more harmful than steroids. - BlitzBomb I headbang to Bruckner. <cite>Not_an_Owl posted [p:903435873] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>Shaduln posted...</cite> <quote>This is why I hate religious arguments. Why does anyone need to prove anything? Why can't each person just have their own religious views and not force them on others and share only if asked.</quote> Because Christians believe they're on a mission from god to save the world by making non-Christians Christian.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Peace___Frog 06/17/18 12:36:27 PM #346:	https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1008312067592294400 Ministers approve bill outlawing filming of IDF troops https://t.co/C9oNkXekV2 Can't have video evidence of the military committing war crimes if you outlaw filming the military! The moral decline of israel is disgusting. --- ~Peaf~ <cite>Peace___Frog posted [p:903436016] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1008312067592294400 <quote>Ministers approve bill outlawing filming of IDF troops https://t.co/C9oNkXekV2</quote> Can't have video evidence of the military committing war crimes if you outlaw filming the military! The moral decline of israel is disgusting.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN 06/17/18 12:45:11 PM #347:	jesus fuck israel --- Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination. <cite>NFUN posted [p:903436423] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>jesus fuck israel</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Suprak the Stud 06/17/18 12:45:57 PM #348:	redrocket posted... red sox 777 posted... I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings. Does this relate to the current discussion somehow? Its red sox. It doesnt contribute any less to the current discussion than any of his other posts. --- Moops? "I thought you were making up diseases? That's spontaneous dental hydroplosion." <cite>Suprak the Stud posted [p:903436455] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>redrocket posted...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>I heard an interesting theory about Noah. The Bible says that Noah preached about the coming doom for 100 years, yet only 8 people ended up going on the Ark with him, all of whom were his own family. Why is it that in 100 years of preaching, Noah managed to win exactly zero converts? The theory is that Noah did not love the people (so, for instance, there is no record that he ever prayed for them, which is something he would have done if he genuinely cared about them). People are perceptive and could tell that he did not love them, so no one listened to his warnings.</quote> Does this relate to the current discussion somehow?</quote> Its red sox. It doesnt contribute any less to the current discussion than any of his other posts.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
red sox 777 06/17/18 12:48:16 PM #349:	I'm pretty sure that Corrik and I generate 90% of the discussion in this topic. The rest is just people posting news articles. --- September 1, 2003; November 4, 2007; September 2, 2013 Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest! <cite>red sox 777 posted [p:903436561] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote>I'm pretty sure that Corrik and I generate 90% of the discussion in this topic. The rest is just people posting news articles.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shaduln 06/17/18 12:54:14 PM #350:	red sox 777 posted... I'm pretty sure that Corrik and I generate 90% of the discussion in this topic. The rest is just people posting news articles. I would prefer just the news. --- Posted using GameFlux Get it now for Android from Google Play! <cite>Shaduln posted [p:903436904] in Politics C... [t:76701362]...</cite> <quote><cite>red sox 777 posted...</cite> <quote>I'm pretty sure that Corrik and I generate 90% of the discussion in this topic. The rest is just people posting news articles.</quote> I would prefer just the news.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 180: The Summit All Fears (+) Yeah! (+)

Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 180: The Summit All Fears