Current Events > Update on my Hiragana/Japanese learning thread.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Iirc, most modern Pokemon titles have a hiragana-only option. I know Sun and Moon do, at least.

nice. iwill play that
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I usually just pick kanji I've been seeing a lot or that are in pronounced words I recognize or know the meaning of and I'm just confirming their pronunciation and common forms of it. Like how one root might mean X, but sometimes it means X+1 when in another word, or Y in another entirely where it's very loosely linked or unrelated entirely.

As for how I look them up, phonetic spelling. Not an option for text. So I guess, try and draw the kanji in an engine that lets you?
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Oh jeez. Figured out that a character changed a few words like a shortened playful version of Tomodachi when talking. Suddenly I remembered, that'll definitely happen in games and not just anime ones.
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So japanese particles i get:

1.: is
2.: and
3.: also

Some grammar:

: indicate a statement/positive statement
?: question
: indicate negative statement

Do i get it right?

: statement
?:question (i saw in anime alot of people also you "kore wa" i think anata is more formal/ close , kore is more casual.
: my name is not apollo/negative statement.

: me and maria is american.
: john is also american

Also some kanji i learned:
:
:





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apolloooo posted...

1.: is

no. I can see where you're coming from and why you think this, and in some cases it will be a valid parallel, but don't get used to this because it's really not correct at all. I think the best way to describe it briefly would be to say it's a topic indicator but there are all sorts of guides/articles you can read about it since it's a pretty fundamental part of the language http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/particlesintro#The_topic_particle

apolloooo posted...

2.: and

sort of, except there are also other uses for and other particles that can be used as "and" would in english

apolloooo posted...

3.: also

again, that's a sort of, with the same sort of caveat I had with (that link has a section about as well)

apolloooo posted...

: indicate a statement/positive statement
?: question
: indicate negative statement

yeah, sure, though these are based sort of on politeness levels (especially that negative) and there are other ways to get basically the same meaning. Also keep in mind japanese doesn't always use question marks at the ends of questions

apolloooo posted...

(i saw in anime alot of people also you "kore wa" i think anata is more formal/ close , kore is more casual.

is probably best translated to "this" in english. so... while is a valid sentence it doesn't have the same meaning really. Aside from the fact that it's no longer asking the listener about themselves, it's also now not even asking about a person

apolloooo posted...

. Lost a few particles there. Also something else about this sentence feels off but I think I am too tired to tell what.
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@kirbymuncher thanks alot for the feedback. duolingo is good for basic stuff, but it doesnt explain grammar rule when it comes to complete sentences. i guess i should start reading some other material to complement it. duolingo comment section sometimes contain useful info, but most of the time are just random comments.
i will read the link you posted thanks
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it seems numbers works exactly the same like mandarin.

11
20
21
39
40
74
99

i know a little mandarin and some hanzi. so far all of them mean the same thing with different pronounciation. good i can cross this one off the list.
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I strongly recommend referencing an actual grammar textbook when you want to know what particles mean.

https://www.wasabi-jpn.com/japanese-grammar/wasabis-online-japanese-grammar-reference/

So I'm somehow suuuuuuper doubtful they kept THIS in for whatever mess of an English translation they churned out.



Which is a shame, because this scene needs precision strikes like this for maximum impact.
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ArmieBuff posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Iirc, most modern Pokemon titles have a hiragana-only option. I know Sun and Moon do, at least.

So they're making it easier to understand? I wonder why they didn't adopt this earlier.

In the past there was only hiragana only. Kanji options were only made available in recent generations.

ArmieBuff posted...

So they're making it easier to understand?

If you are a kid living in Japan who already has years of natural vocab acquisition under your belt, yes it will be easier to understand

However for people who learn it later on in life, you will come to appreciate Kanji more than you realize after trying to sift through glorious Kana soup.
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Oof taking a break this weekend. My mom said its been awhile since we had a family vacation, and she said she wanted to try visit japan.

Maybe next year, july-august 2020 if all is well. Kinda motivate me to work hard so i can enjoy japan more without tour guidesand impress my family with high level weeb skill.
But yea weekend is for rest.
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i have mastered hiragana. i think. reading is the easiest, i can recognize every one of them if i see it, but writing is a bit hard.

after several pages of trials and error, now i can write all hiragana out of memory.

after this i will learn to write katakana (which should be alot easier) after this i really should start to delve into kanji vocabulary + grammar.
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My sides! God dammit, my sides!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKn3kuidTQQ" data-time="&start=492

RIP apollo
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I can't get enough of this. XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArNrozMcIpo" data-time="&start=192

bump. not making much progress because work was busy when i get home i just wanna rest.

did learn some phrases and kanji though so at least it is not zero progress
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apolloooo posted...

it seems numbers works exactly the same like mandarin.

11
20
21
39
40
74
99

i know a little mandarin and some hanzi. so far all of them mean the same thing with different pronounciation. good i can cross this one off the list.

Well 3 has the same pronunciation. :p

But yeah over 50% of vocabulary is identical between Japanese and Mandarin. There are only about 300 simplified characters in Japanese though (and most minorly simplified), so if you only know simplified it can be hard (especially since they aren't always the same and traditional is still used in Japanese names even for simplified characters). That said learning that dianhua is denwa is not going to be hard. Or taiyang is taiyou, etc. You will start to notice patterns for many sounds making it quite easy. The problem of course being in Japanese a single character can have many, many readings, and they can be very divergent and sometimes one off special readings (like for example, when read kyou). Mandarin is a lot easier in the reading department even if they commonly use slightly more characters (around 3000 in Japanese gets you to 99.99% of vocab versus around 5000 in Mandarin).
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Agreed with above post.

I'm always debating whether I should back-burner Japanese and just study Mandarin for a few months to get up to around some level that enables more independent learning through pure reading/listening.

And when things largely have one reading, and when the grammar has less standing in the way early on, it's pretty appealing. Maybe it's just that my brain is now wired to accept these characters, but assigning a new sound to stuff I already know is effortless. Learning new characters is the same.

I've dabbled in it just to see, and it's really amazing how simple the simplest parts of Mandarin are (yet, it certainly does ramp up). Moreover, Mandarin has always been "the" language that feels like it calls to me the most, and I know where I can always return to if I need a practice ground for speaking/listening.
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Mandarin grammar is like English, but a lot easier. Japanese grammar is brutal if you are a native speaker of either of the other two. It's funny. I live in Japan, speak Japanese at work, speak Japanese to my SO (a native Mandarin speaker), just constantly using it. I use English online and when writing papers. I use Mandarin almost never. And yet I still find Mandarin grammar easier to grasp overall.
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Zero progress since Saturday.

I have been sick as fuck. High fever, aching joints, headache, you name it.

Doctor said just to be safe, he is taking my blood for test, hope it is not dengue fever.
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@ssjevot posted...

Mandarin grammar is like English, but a lot easier. Japanese grammar is brutal if you are a native speaker of either of the other two. It's funny. I live in Japan, speak Japanese at work, speak Japanese to my SO (a native Mandarin speaker), just constantly using it. I use English online and when writing papers. I use Mandarin almost never. And yet I still find Mandarin grammar easier to grasp overall.

From little i learned about mandarin in highschool extra class, the hardest thing about mandarin for me is the pronounciation. You have to watch the intonation sign and stuff. Mandarin grammar was easy then, i was just too lazy to bother when i was young
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Yeah pronunciation is very hard. Japanese pronunciation is so easy being a native speaker doesn't matter much. But for Mandarin if you aren't a native speaker it is a real struggle to learn.
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https://eow.alc.co.jp/search?q=derp

I am,still in the hospital. Dengue fever
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Fam, can y'all translate this to Japanese?

"Hello. Can you ask Akira Toriyama who was stronger between Goku and Gohan at the end of the Majin Boo arc in the manga?"
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Wariodorf posted...

M3sterybumper posted...

And damn I remember manwithgun

What the hell does this contribute to the thread other than bumping it? This has nothing to do with learning Japanese.

It is harmless. Better than let it purge while i am in hospital
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Bump

Google translate for pictures is hilarious
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LMAO oh I'm loving Google translate for some of the pervert options in amagami. It's not so much that it's literal as that it's like... 70-80% accurate, at least in translating the kanji I don't recognize.
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Now i am back to health, it is time i start learning again.

Now that i got ahold of hiragana and katakana well, o guess i should delve truly into understanding the grammar.

Thsi guide posted earlier is useful so far
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete/stateofbeing

I already know some from deducting and reading duolingo comments in lessons, but this guide does so much better than just reading random comments hoping someone would explain how the grammar works or just guessing.

Also learned several other kanjis.
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there's a single-page version of that guide if you think it would be easier to ctrl-f for things

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/grammar/taekim.html
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kirbymuncher posted...

there's a single-page version of that guide if you think it would be easier to ctrl-f for things

https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/grammar/taekim.html

I mostly read on mobile so the one page per topic is good. But thanks.

Anyway some little question, with the number 4, sometimes it says "shi" which the almost identical as the word s in chinese. But 4 is also "yon" in japanese. Is there a specific context to use either yon or shi, or i just use whatever i like?
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Also what simple games on pc or 3ds have dual language options? That way i can switch language and start learning for real
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These grammar are fucking melting my mind, especially the context related stuff.

For example the kanji
So when describing nationality is read but when using adjective is read as

= i am japanese / watashi wa nihonjin desu

And

= you are pretty/beautiful / anata wa kirei na hito desu.

It is NOT that confusing so far, especially compared to some of the more advanced english. Both English and my native tongue (indonesian) is already pretty different, and japanese is also a different beast altogether, so when reading a japanese text, i process them both interchangeably either in english or indonesian. I am fluent enough in english to process it internaly (aka i dont have to translate an english texts or voices to indonesian) but learning a third languange while being bilingual is really fascinating. It is doing funny stuff to your head. On one side, you can try to translate the new languange into either of the languange you know, and which one fits well, i use that language to process the japanese text.

I guess i went trough this process when i was learning english, but i started at fairly young age so the experience kinda eluded me and at the time i only know indonesian so the exchange between both languange are linear instead of a triangle.

Oh yeah, other mindfuckery i have is basically the process of translating the text into romaji.

When you still can't process the non roman alphabet, you basically have to go extra steps.

Kanji > hira/kata > romaji > english/indonesian > meaning.

But yeah i really enjoy the mental exercise. Aside from work stuff (which only involve memorizing flow, item names, price, etc),and maybe learning a video game rules this is the most i have flexed my brain and it is fun.
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there's no real rhyme or reason, yet once you know them it would feel really strange to use the incorrect readings.
That instinct builds up fast.
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when kanji is introduced it definitely complicate things. at least some of the formal/informal greetings and rules already make sense to me. say if i am a tourist, i would just use the formal speeech to everyone just in case right?

is it common for the average japanese person to be offended if you use too casual language?
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YonicBoom posted...

there's no real rhyme or reason,

There technically is, it just isn't worth the effort to understand it because the exceptions are vast. Also surprised you didn't list some of the real fun ones like:



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what do those mean or at least the hiragana so i can read them
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Lunaaaa posted...

what do those mean or at least the hiragana so i can read them

jisho.org is a good source. But they are: otona meaning adult, karyuudo meaning hunter, and shirouto meaning amateur. Also the Udo/uto are technically the reading for and so you don't technically make the long vowel sound for the proceeding u/o, but it's not a big deal in practice if you do. At least not compared to something like or where it would be quite wrong to make the long vowel sound.
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ssjevot posted...

jisho.org

omh this is great. i have been using wiktionary, because wiktionary covers every lqanguage, the chinese hanzi appears too and honestly it's kinda pain to navigate. this site allows you to write too
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Lunaaaa posted...

So when describing nationality is read but when using adjective is read as

look up kunyomi and onyomi if you haven't already. While there are always a lot of exceptions (and you picked a pretty crazy example kanji with ) there are also some general rules to help you make educated guesses for words you haven't seen before
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