Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic 286: Apples, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie

(+) Yeah! (+)

Camden posted...

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/esports/tournament/hct-fall-championship-2018/choose-your-champion

I only know two players on this list. So... now I just need to decide who is more likely to get me yet another single pack, Sintolol or justsaiyan.

Have to pick justsaiyan out of this field right?
---

Forceful_Dragon posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

I didn't play Hadronox on 9, I played Oakheart.

Still wrong.

You play based on the matchup. You don't just use random cards that happen to be green that turn.

.

Taunt Druid vs Odd Warrior.

Odd Warrior has ways to put cards into it's own deck. Taunt Druid has several cards that pull from it's own deck. Because of this the warrior will always be favored if the match reaches fatigue.

That means the taunt Druid needs to stick a board, and needs to do it several times because of odd warrior multiple board clears.

This is possible because of witching hour but is still difficult. Warrior is expected to play 2 copies of brawl and 2 copies of reckless flurry.

You don't want play a naked hadronox at any point (OR summon it with oakheart which is literally the same mistake). Even if the warrior missed the mct he probably runs 2 copies of ironbeak owl which would allow him to remove the first hadronox without requiring a board clear.

Hadronox + naturalize
Witching + cube
Witching2 + cube2

Even with everything I've said druid can only definitely proc Hadro three times and warrior had the potential for four board clears.

To win:
You need to try to get the warrior to waste an owl. If the owls get wasted then the warrior won't have an answer for one of the cubes which results in a 4th board.

You want to make sure you are putting your best minions into the pool. Avoid playing the 2 damage poisonous or the 3/6 (one 3/6 is fine). You want lich King and 4/12 and 4/8 being summoned. This can create the possibility that your opponent might not have enough armor to activate reckless as a clear.

So you count brawls and flurry's and owls and trigger your hadronox as they are played and you can possibly stick a board before the warrior draws enough answers. Hell druid may even be favored if they aren't actively throwing the game. Odd druid can't put beasts in your pool unless they get sentry off of stonehill so witching hour becomes guaranteed.

UltimaterializerX posted...

(Best part of FD's trolling is him preaching Jesus's message while trolling 24/7 out of the other side of his mouth. Doesn't go unnoticed, I promise ~_^)

I'm literally not trolling though. I was using scorn and derision to underscore my point that you executed a 0-skill maneuver only to complain about skill not mattering when it lost you the game. Skill matters. RNG matters too.

The image you provided was actually a clear case of skill mattering so thanks for that.

It literally doesnt matter because of RNG. All games are coin flips.
---

ColZach posted...

Imagine playing into MCT against a deck that is well known for playing TWO MCT and youre still such a narcissistic psychopath you have to post lies on gamefaqs to make yourself feel better.

Holy shit Ulti is fucking TERRIBLE at video games.

Im convinced something traumatic happened to him when he was younger because people dont develop into toxicity the way he has without something like that. Get some help lil buddy.

Rank 15 opinions.

Skill is 100% irrelevant and Hearthstone is dying a quick death. Metrics prove me right. End of story.
---

SaintAkira7 posted...

Camden posted...

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/esports/tournament/hct-fall-championship-2018/choose-your-champion

I only know two players on this list. So... now I just need to decide who is more likely to get me yet another single pack, Sintolol or justsaiyan.

Have to pick justsaiyan out of this field right?

That's who I went with. I felt like he was more well known than Sintolol, so he was more likely to get me my single pack. Honestly, at this point going forward I truly believe that I'd have more fun out of mildly complaining about getting just one pack than I would out of actually getting more packs.
---

You don't seem to understand the word 'literally' and how to currectly use it. You also don't seem to understand how coin flips work, or odds in general. Even in your own misplayed situation it wasn't a coin flip. Your opponents had a 1 in 4 chance at best to steal Hadro, coin flips are 50/50.

Just admit that you threw the game and you can become a better player.
---

As for my champion I went with DavRyvius. I think he can do it and I hope he brings fun decks.
---

Forceful_Dragon posted...

You don't seem to understand the word 'literally' and how to currectly use it. You also don't seem to understand how coin flips work, or odds in general. Even in your own misplayed situation it wasn't a coin flip. Your opponents had a 1 in 4 chance at best to steal Hadro, coin flips are 50/50.

Just admit that you threw the game and you can become a better player.

Remember this is the guy a few weeks ago using rank 15 as an insult even though he INSISTS that because there is no skill in Hearthstone, your rank is simply tied to how much time you put in.

You cant argue with someone whos so cognitively dissonant. Not everything works right in his mind and he needs help.

UltimaterializerX posted...

https://twitter.com/hsreplaynet/status/1047885291762196480?s=21

I'd like to see the people who complain about balance attempt to explain this one.
---

Pretty sure that fifth card, I think it's called Webspinner, only had a 49% win rate on Wednesday.
---

Camden posted...

Pretty sure that fifth card, I think it's called Webspinner, only had a 49% win rate on Wednesday.

Garbo
---

This latest game makes me want to go on an Ulti-bender, but more incredulous than upset. Control Warrior against a Hunter that barely manages to get to his DK. He gets there and pretty much only has the one free turn after playing it before I finish him.

The dude rolls Lifesteal. Eight. Straight. Times. Six of them with Rush. The sheer balls of the rng gods in that game was astounding. I have an abundance of resources so none of them ever got more than the initial attack, and he's hitting fatigue so it's only a matter of time, but lord that game went on so much longer than it had any right to.

And the worst part? Not the endless parade of minions sustaining his life. No. He finally concedes even though he technically could have survived at least one more turn, as my only minion was a golem that couldn't currently attack. That concede, that one missed turn I didn't get to take...

29/30 cards played towards my Warrior quest.

God damn it...
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

I was right. Again.

Will you fill out my CBX bracket and be right?
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

SaintAkira7 posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

I was right. Again.

Will you fill out my CBX bracket and be right?

Pick the mostly likely realistic rally you can.

Ness > Link confirmed.
---

So I opened Kangor's Endless Army, and decided to make a deck with it. Realized that most of the good magnetic cards were odd anyway, and I now have a deck with the weirdest fucking mana curve.

13 five drops. Wat.

### Kangor's Endless Army
# Class: Paladin
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 2x (1) Glow-Tron
# 2x (1) Lost in the Jungle
# 2x (1) Righteous Protector
# 2x (3) Bronze Gatekeeper
# 1x (3) Raid Leader
# 2x (3) Stonehill Defender
# 2x (3) Unidentified Maul
# 2x (5) Fungalmancer
# 2x (5) Giggling Inventor
# 2x (5) Level Up!
# 2x (5) Mechano-Egg
# 2x (5) Shrink Ray
# 2x (5) Wargear
# 1x (5) Zilliax
# 1x (7) Kangor's Endless Army
# 2x (7) Vinecleaver
# 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater
#
AAECAYsWBPkKnvgC8f4CoIADDZvCAoPHArjHAuPLAtHhAtblArXmAqX1AuL4AoT8At
b+ApGAA8yBAwA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

I don't think any of them are wrong either. Like...apparently this is a deck archetype that is somewhat well known:

https://hsreplay.net/decks/vIwjxr8LEcxpPWuIya41zh/

And in the recommended list it runs 11 five drops. The only extra five drop I have is 2x Shrink Ray. (In for Void Rippers, I own zero VRs, but I really like the synergy with shrink ray and egg, and shrink ray has won me a lot of games where my opponent builds up a massive board of 6/7s or 7/7s, and then I'm like "nope").

Two other five drops I didn't have at first were Giggling Inventor and Fungalmancer (Added them after looking at HSReplay stats on similar decks). This is not usually a fast deck, so I do really want the taunts from Giggling Inventor. It's also great to have a mech with divine shield to slap a wargear on. Fungalmancer I could cut, but looking at those HSReplay stats on a very similar deck, Fungalmancer is literally better to have in your opening mulligan than literally all of the three drops in that deck (except for Unidentified Maul).

So...there you have it. 13 five drops, in a deck that is performing reasonably well.

Other than shrink ray, the one other change I have compared to the normal list is 1x Raid Leader instead of 1x Nightmare Amalgam. I have an Amalgam, I just don't really care. I'm usually trying to keep my mech count for Kangor's lower, not higher, am not particularly interested in opening myself up to Sacrificial Pact and Hungry Crab blowouts. (Sac Pact is in the meta. Crab technically isn't, but can be discovered from DK Rexxar so it basically is).

...

Anyway, I actually kinda like the deck. It's beaten...I think literally all the Druids I faced which was a bit of a surprise. Also beat an odd control warrior by making a 17/25 egg (they can't run execute, their only out was brawl, so I kept magnetizing and not hero powering). Pretty bad winrate against deathrattle hunter so far, cause cube is obnoxiously good, and plays around Shrink Ray obnoxiously well (if I could pop the cube and then Shrink Ray I would be in great shape, but the cube has 6 health). Beaten some of the combo priests I've faced cause it can still go into Odd Paladin Smash Face mode. Silence heavy priests are bad news for obvious reasons, though.

Compared to vanilla Odd Paladin it does two things that really make me enjoy playing it more

#1: has a board clear in Shrink Ray. One of the reasons back in Witchwood I liked Even paladin way more than Odd was because it could run Consecrate and Equality. Well, now Odd paladin has a board clear.
#2: It can go tall with magnetic. Yeah, you don't just get blown out by Spreading Plague or Defile or Hellfire cause now you can actually choose to play around them (weird feeling for Odd Paladin, which used to have basically zero options for going tall--no Blessing of Kings, no Sea Giant). Having ways to play around your opponent's stuff is nice.
---

If you're going to run Explore Un'Goro, sometimes you just need to Warpath your own board five times.

https://imgur.com/uxG74Iz
https://imgur.com/A3Psr9E
---

Super late tag
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/meta-polarity-and-its-impact-on-hearthstone/

This is fucking fascinating. Really appreciate the link, and I'm glad VS came up with a mathematical formula to quantify exactly what we're all experiencing.

(Of note, Even Pally [along with Cube Lock] was among the highest frequency decks with the least polarizing matchups, and goddamnit it did not need nerf)

Mountain of salt aside, still reading it and digesting the findings. Sure as shit hope Team 5 is doing likewise.

ETA:

All 4 sets before Boomsday introduced mechanics that enabled and greatly escalated the core issue behind polarization: lack of meaningful counterplay. When you think about it, it all makes sense.

This echoes what I've been saying: they're still paying the price for escalating the power level so high during KFT, Ungoro, & K&C and no counterplay is the root cause of the problem.
---

SaintAkira7 posted...

Sure as shit hope Team 5 is doing likewise.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/9mg4v1/vicious_syndicate_presents_meta_polarity_and_its/e7ek1tj/

Currently at a stellar -207.
---

Camden posted...

Currently at a stellar -207.

-211 when I clicked.

Honestly, I think Donais should have just stayed above the fray. Nothing he could say was going to help, and what he did say, essentially just being butt hurt, certainly didn't do him (or Team 5 by extension) any favors. It was clearly a knee-jerk response without any counter to the article. He could at least try to sell why polarity in the meta isn't all bad. Instead he just said "a good version" of the article would explain the pros and cons of a polarized meta. Fuck, Donais, if you're gonna get in the slop pit, at least provide something of value.
---

Just wanted to pop in here to say fuck Shudderwock.

That is all.
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

Donais is a known moron. Ive been saying it forever. The dude legit has no idea what hes doing.

He tried telling us Cubelock was the 12th best deck. He tried defending the DK Rexxar non update bs. He tried defending Naga Sea Witch. And now this. Fire the idiot.

Iksar did a good job of fielding this report/article. But it's so tone deaf for Donais to respond like that.

Blizzard: "we welcome your feedback"

*get data-driven feedback*

Blizzard: "a good version of that feedback would be objective, you'd all just complain anyway"

And replying, basically, that "you'll just complain about something else" really fucking torpedoes any discussion.

I know Donais swings a big stick over there, but someone with a bigger stick needs to tell him to stay the fuck off reddit.
---

IksarHS has a much better researched and more thought out response, for what it's worth:

https://twitter.com/marshall5912/status/1049335629031596039
---

This kind of shit doesnt stop until you stop giving them money, FYI.

I've never given them money.
---

Well most of those sets rotate

Does this mean were kinda screwed until rotation? Though Odd Warrior is still gonna be kinda screwy (but I like Control Wario and am glad its back)
---

I don't think we're going to see any nerfs/changes before the next expansion hits. Giggling is the only thing I've even seen them hint towards and I think they would much rather wait another two months and see what kind of OP shit the third expansion brings again that makes everyone forget about Giggling.

Also, fuck every streamer who calls it Jiggling Inventor, that name is 100% stuck in my head and I can't read or hear that without thinking of Jigglypuff singing his name from the old Pokemon anime.

Any early predictions for 2019 HOF? I'd like to see Wild Growth, Prep and Malygos go. Not that I expect them to.
---

They HOF Nourish and move Spreading Plague to classic just to fuck with everyone
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

All rogue spells are balanced around that card.

I agree, which is why I want it gone.
---

I think the only real problem is that the strategies are still mostly the same from this expansion to the last so its like were playing the same meta

Like it boosted... Warrior? But every other class is the same one with like, Giggling Inventor and maybe a couple other cards
---

Iksar and the comment above Donais's show it a lot better but he's not even wrong that the article is biased. The data's fantastic but the analysis, while probably mostly correct, is off. And the last section is literally just saying every major design innovation for the past two years is shit. Frankly, I'm surprised he wasn't less civil.

Though, I will declare my own bias: I kind of love that Donais isnt above shitposting? The results are always hilarious and you definitely can't say he isn't transparent.
---

This expansion is sad.

Team 5 showing their inevitable incompetency when it comes to balance.

This next expansion better be goddamn amazing.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Though, I will declare my own bias: I kind of love that Donais isnt above shitposting? The results are always hilarious and you definitely can't say he isn't transparent.

The thing that grinds my gears is that right above said shitpost, it reads "Principle Game Designer".

Couple ways to look at this; one way is that as lead, he's sticking his dick in the wind to take the heat instead of his team. That'd be admirable, tbh. Another way to look at it is that he's a bit of a jackass and can't take the heat and passive-aggressively fielded the bomb that vS just dropped on his game poorly (his posting history supports this view). Lastly, one could make a case that he forgot he was on his work account and meant to post that on an alt.

Regardless of how one looks at it, it's beyond a shitty look for the Principle Game Designer to shitpost in a data-driven thread that takes aim at the root of the game he designs problems.

Iksar handled this data like a champ, bullet point by bullet point. And while some of his responses are tantamount to hand waiving, at least the hand waiving is professional. This is a multi-million dollar game for a multi-billion dollar company. Donais is speaking to (and with) customers that deserve at least a modicum of respect (I get that his response was to VS directly, but they are and have been an extension of the player base since inception, and he damn well knew his comment would be more than scrutinized).

Tldr: bad look for a Principle Game Designer to shitpost, regardless of the motivation (let lack thereof).
---

Is there a streamer playing a lot of Academic Espionage lately? So far this month I've played a total of 17 games, and 9 of them have been against this deck.
---

Camden posted...

Is there a streamer playing a lot of Academic Espionage lately? So far this month I've played a total of 17 games, and 9 of them have been against this deck.

Toast played it recently i believe and other streamers like Kripp and Kibler are huge fans of the card. In general I think it's a really fun card and had a deck pretty much built around it and spiders. Was it a good deck? Probably not, but it was fun to play.
---

It's actually a really good deck if you're running into a ton of Druid, because like 40% of their cards are broken, especially at 1-mana.
---