Poll of the Day > Interesting that teleportation is winning, considering you die

(+) Yeah! (+)

If you teleport Star Trek style, you die. Your body gets ripped to shreds and another you is assembled out of the same material. But YOU die.
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Sounds like a win-win
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Ouch! What do you do?
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Where did you get the idea that that's how teleportation works in Star Trek?
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Johnny Eagle posted...

Where did you get the idea that that's how teleportation works in Star Trek?

Because exactly how they describe it.

ST:TNG SPOILERS That's why there are 2 Rikers.
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I'd choose immortality. I could figure out how to make the other choices in the poll a reality with that much time.

SunWuKung420 posted...

Johnny Eagle posted...

Where did you get the idea that that's how teleportation works in Star Trek?

Because exactly how they describe it.

ST:TNG SPOILERS That's why there are 2 Rikers.

Didnt they spend an entire episode of Enterprise describing that thats NOT how it works?

Wasnt the second Riker some sort of duplicate inexplicably created by the atmosphere, and not the transporter, that was bounced back down to the transport pad on the ground?
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^

Warning: spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geMGo2P94j4" data-time="&start=53
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aDirtyShisno posted...

SunWuKung420 posted...

Johnny Eagle posted...

Where did you get the idea that that's how teleportation works in Star Trek?

Because exactly how they describe it.

ST:TNG SPOILERS That's why there are 2 Rikers.

Didnt they spend an entire episode of Enterprise describing that thats NOT how it works?

Wasnt the second Riker some sort of duplicate inexplicably created by the atmosphere, and not the transporter, that was bounced back down to the transport pad on the ground?

The dematerialized data stream was both reflected and passed through the atmosphere. He rematerialized in both places.
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Fucking nerds
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1. not 100% that you do.
2. it doesn't say thats the method of used.
3. obligatory, what poll?
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I'll die to transport to places instantly.
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All the cells in your body get replaced every x amount of time, so your dead that often anyway.
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wolfy42 posted...

All the cells in your body get replaced every x amount of time, so your dead that often anyway.

Except for the brain.

For me it would depend on how the teleportation works. If by the Star Trek method (deconstruction/reconstruction), hard pass. But if teleporters, say, manipulated folds in space to achieve their function I may be down for it.
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KJ StErOiDs posted...

wolfy42 posted...

All the cells in your body get replaced every x amount of time, so your dead that often anyway.

Except for the brain.

For me it would depend on how the teleportation works. If by the Star Trek method (deconstruction/reconstruction), hard pass. But if teleporters, say, manipulated folds in space to achieve their function I may be down for it.

This, folded space or wormhole teleportation would be great.
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KJ StErOiDs posted...

Except for the brain.

Wrong. Neuron replacement is a real thing.
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SunWuKung420 posted...

KJ StErOiDs posted...

Except for the brain.

Wrong. Neuron replacement is a real thing.

Right, as in the neurons in the brain don't get replaced every x amount of time.
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KJ StErOiDs posted...

SunWuKung420 posted...

KJ StErOiDs posted...

Except for the brain.

Wrong. Neuron replacement is a real thing.

Right, as in the neurons in the brain don't get replaced every x amount of time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12031270/

"The discovery of constant neuronal replacement in the adult brain was remarkable"

Yup not over an x period, just constantly.
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SunWuKung420 posted...

aDirtyShisno posted...

SunWuKung420 posted...

Johnny Eagle posted...

Where did you get the idea that that's how teleportation works in Star Trek?

Because exactly how they describe it.

ST:TNG SPOILERS That's why there are 2 Rikers.

Didnt they spend an entire episode of Enterprise describing that thats NOT how it works?

Wasnt the second Riker some sort of duplicate inexplicably created by the atmosphere, and not the transporter, that was bounced back down to the transport pad on the ground?

The dematerialized data stream was both reflected and passed through the atmosphere. He rematerialized in both places.

Exactly - and this would not result in two separate individuals unless teleportation killed the user.

To put it another way, if a teleporter deconstructed you and used the same molecules to reconstruct you somewhere else, there's only enough molecules for one you; it would be impossible to get two users out of a "glitch". If there was an atmospheric interruption of some sort, half of you would wind up at your destination and half would wind up back on the ship (and you'd both probably die pretty quickly). For there to be two of you, the teleporter would need to work by scanning you, disintegrating you, then sending the data it gathered to a different location in order to rebuild you using atomic material already on site.

This, of course, raises all sorts of fascinating philosophical questions on what exactly "you" are. What exactly makes you... well, "you"? Is it the unique configuration of molecules in your body? Because those change all the time - each year you swap out about 98% of the atoms in your body and pretty much all your cells replace and regenerate themselves every decade or so. Is it your memories, thought patterns, and unique experiences? Because your teleported clone will have those too.

I love this argument because it's one of the few that reliably hints at the existence of a "soul" - or, to use a less loaded term, some intangible trait unmeasurable by science that nonetheless serves as a unique marker of "you."
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why are we assuming a teleporter needs to break our bodies down? why cant it just be like a wormhole or something?
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Because apparently that's the *only* form of teleportation, right? >_> I mean, it's not like you can just open a space between locations and quickly travel that through (a la Nightcrawler) or distort time/space to open a gateway you can walk through or anything, it *has* to be that one pigeon-holed genetic replication method. And it's got to work exactly the same way, because it's not like you can have a caveat where your current consciousness or soul is transported separately or anything.

Granted, given that that form of teleportation basically creates a new person each time, kinda begs the question why they don't just constantly bring people back to life using it.

SunWuKung420 posted...

Johnny Eagle posted...

Where did you get the idea that that's how teleportation works in Star Trek?

Because exactly how they describe it.

ST:TNG SPOILERS That's why there are 2 Rikers.

Outer Limits did something similar.
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Xian042 posted...

But YOU die.

Only if you accept ontological materialism as a philosophy.

Or to put it another way, how do we know that, even if you erase the entirety of your current body, but assemble a new version of it elsewhere, that your soul - which is the quintessential definition of WHO and WHAT you are - doesn't just transmigrate to the new body? Perhaps, much like in Ghost in the Shell, our consciousness exists outside of the meat in some tangible, indefinable way.

But even beyond that, if you erase "old you" and create "new you", but all of the memories are exactly identical, how can you say that IT isn't YOU? What defines "YOU" in the first place, in any meaningful way?

For reference, see also the Ship of Theseus, and think about how it applies in this case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus



If there isn't a single molecule in my body today that was in my body 20 years ago, am I the same person I was 20 years ago? Or did that person essentially "die" to become the me I am today? If my memories and personality are different now than they were then, can I say that I'm the same person as that younger, less experienced person whose worldview I may not even remotely agree with anymore? Just what IS it that defines who we are?


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darkknight109 posted...

For there to be two of you, the teleporter would need to work by scanning you, disintegrating you, then sending the data it gathered to a different location in order to rebuild you using atomic material already on site.

This is the default assumption of how scientific teleportation in the Star Trek sense would HAVE to work - because while data can be transmitted at light speed, molecules can't. So to teleport over any meaningful distance in any useful amount of time, they'd almost NEED to reconstruct you out of entirely new molecules on the other side, and break down the molecules of the original you and just dump them into storage.

Realistically, the way it would work is that the molecules you leave behind would probably wind up being used to reconstruct the next incoming person. So if the back-and-forth transfer was relatively balanced, there wouldn't be much of a problem, but if traffic goes in one direction far more heavily than the other, it could easily create a deficit at the receiving station unless it is continually restocked in some way.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Realistically, the way it would work is that the molecules you leave behind would probably wind up being used to reconstruct the next incoming person. So if the back-and-forth transfer was relatively balanced, there wouldn't be much of a problem, but if traffic goes in one direction far more heavily than the other, it could easily create a deficit at the receiving station unless it is continually restocked in some way.

Given Star Trek's level of technology, I think rather than "storing" the molecules anywhere, they're just converting the matter to energy and using it to charge a battery when sending the data, then converting energy back into matter when they need to receive someone.

Energy is much easier to store than matter (if you think about it, you'd need an approximately human-sized collection of spare atoms somewhere on the ship for every single person you teleport) and it would remove the risk of either having a buildup of excess matter (if you're sending more people than you're receiving) or a shortage (if you suddenly have to take on a bunch of extra people).
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Lifelike Virtual Reality would be sooooo much better. Especially if it's the truly "Matrix" kind that is directly integrated with our brains and nervous systems.

Can you even begin to imagine all the pleasure and fun we could experience???

Your wildest dreams could be a reality.

Entire simulations designed to make you feel like you can fly. Jump super high. Feelings of excitement and adventure. And that's not even getting into the sexual stuff.

If it's truly integrated with our brains and nervous systems, it wouldn't just be sights and sounds. There would be all those other sensations.

Feelings of gravity and vertigo (but not the unpleasant kinds). Smell and taste. Temperature. Flying over a desert like Superman and feeling the heat of it all, then diving down into cool waters. True Video Game God Mode. With nothing to worry about.

VR would be heaven.
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Two words: quantum entanglement
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I'd like to point out that in Star Trek when someone is being transported they remain fully aware and conscious.
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^If it turned out to be that way just may accept that type of teleportation - it would throw out the whole "you are dead and your clone continues your life" quandary that I'd have.
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Let me clarify, in Star Trek lore you do not die when you teleport. But real physicists agree that if you were to actually be able to teleport that way, you could not do so without being destroyed and reassembled again. What you end up with is YOU no longer existing, and a an exact copy is created exactly as you were, to the new copy it seems as if you just teleported, but there is a version of you that ended and no longer exists
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but every memory is still there, it's still you
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It could follow night crawler rules where you are technically shifting into another dimension and pop out in another place instantaneously.
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slacker03150 posted...

It could follow night crawler rules where you are technically shifting into another dimension and pop out in another place instantaneously.

BAM. Debate about teleportation killing you is now void.
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As long as your mind is carried over, who the fuck cares?
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

This is the default assumption of how scientific teleportation in the Star Trek sense would HAVE to work - because while data can be transmitted at light speed, molecules can't.

So, in this fictional universe in which entire ships can travel 3000 times faster than the speed of light, molecules somehow can't?
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Loving all these great responses to my post!
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Darth_CiD posted...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

This is the default assumption of how scientific teleportation in the Star Trek sense would HAVE to work - because while data can be transmitted at light speed, molecules can't.

So, in this fictional universe in which entire ships can travel 3000 times faster than the speed of light, molecules somehow can't?

You have to convert the molecules into an energy stream first!
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Sensual_T_Rex posted...

I'd like to point out that in Star Trek when someone is being transported they remain fully aware and conscious.

Not quite true, when Scotty was discovered to be stored in a transporter pattern he was unaware of the amount of time that had passed
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