Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 202: More Like Cesar Say-owned

(+) Yeah! (+)

Apparently this dude was pissed that Trump degraded his neo-nazis on the same level as anti-fascist violent mobs. Like wtf? Ya later went and shot like 12 people?!
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I think we need a total and complete shutdown on the entry of right-wingers into the United States until our countrys Representatives can figure out what the hell is going on
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Corrik posted...

Apparently this dude was pissed that Trump degraded his neo-nazis on the same level as anti-fascist violent mobs. Like wtf? Ya later went and shot like 12 people?!

Thats actually a logical solution to that problem
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Jakyl25 posted...

I think we need a total and complete shutdown on the entry of right-wingers into the United States until our countrys Representatives can figure out what the hell is going on

So a Muslim ban?
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Yes that is what I was satirizing
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Corrik posted...

pyresword posted...

Inviso (I believe) is saying that the president--through his hateful and divisive rhetoric--and the Republican party--through their willingness to enter into Trump's cult of personality--have served to encourage violent and hateful behavior from the extreme political right. And then that--lo and behold--violent actions from the extreme right have increased in frequency since this has happened.

I don't know the accuracy of the latter half of that, but my guess would be that it is a correct claim.

I am not sure I agree. I think just the news is making you think that.

https://www.vox.com/2018/9/20/17882172/murder-crime-us-2018

They are publicizing now what they wouldn't have before imo. Crime doesn't just swing up from just the right and lower on the left to keep it in equilibrium. I mean, if crime is steady everywhere and there is this huge influx on just the right the rates would go much higher.

I don't think statistics on general murder or crime rates can either prove or disprove my hypothesis*, because I'm speaking specifically about acts of violence motivated by things like politics or race, which I would assume to make up an extremely small portion of the total amount of violent crime.

*And to clarify, it is still a hypothesis from my standpoint. I haven't provided any form of proof and don't know what the data on this would tell us. I just think the data you're providing is the wrong data to answer that question.
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Yeah, what Pyre said again. I'm not talking about crime overall. I'm talking about politically-motivated attacks (which, wouldn't you know it, encompass racially-motivated attacks). You know...terrorism.
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https://qz.com/1435885/data-shows-more-us-terror-attacks-by-right-wing-and-religious-extremists/

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/left-wing-violence-midterm-elections/

Both are dubious sources but argue the opposite side of the coin. First one has a nice shiny chart tho.
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https://twitter.com/onlxn/status/1056239241368387585?s=21

Trump wants you to feel sorry for him that he has to be President while all this violence is happening
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https://twitter.com/chriscaesar/status/1055859330199760898?s=21

Check out these amazing politicized vehicles
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/onlxn/status/1056239241368387585?s=21

Trump wants you to feel sorry for him that he has to be President while all this violence is happening

And here I thought that his statement about having armed guards in places of worship was going to be his stupidest remark today.
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Y'all remember how Illinois has a Nazi, Arthur Jones, running for the House of Representatives as a Republican? (3rd Congressional District.) I did just see an online ad, paid for by the Illinois Republican Party, denouncing him and instructing people to vote against him. Not that they explicitly suggest voting for Democrat Dan Lipinski, of course, but he's the only other guy on the ballot and the ad doesn't offer a write-in. So, y'know. Baby steps.
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Good for them

Wish some Republican Congresspeople would denounce Steve King too
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That is one of the deepest blue districts. The GOP stand to lose nothing by giving up on that district, and avoiding association with Arthur Jones can help them elsewhere. Steve King, by contrast, usually wins his elections.
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MalcolmMasher posted...

Y'all remember how Illinois has a Nazi, Arthur Jones, running for the House of Representatives as a Republican? (3rd Congressional District.) I did just see an online ad, paid for by the Illinois Republican Party, denouncing him and instructing people to vote against him. Not that they explicitly suggest voting for Democrat Dan Lipinski, of course, but he's the only other guy on the ballot and the ad doesn't offer a write-in. So, y'know. Baby steps.

That's good. Here in Georgia the Republican party is campaigning on "candidates don't matter, vote Republican no matter what."
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red sox 777 posted...

That is one of the deepest blue districts. The GOP stand to lose nothing by giving up on that district, and avoiding association with Arthur Jones can help them elsewhere. Steve King, by contrast, usually wins his elections.

Whenever you see extremists on the ballot if is because the districts are so slanted that viable candidates don't even waste their time running.
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Corrik posted...

red sox 777 posted...

That is one of the deepest blue districts. The GOP stand to lose nothing by giving up on that district, and avoiding association with Arthur Jones can help them elsewhere. Steve King, by contrast, usually wins his elections.

Whenever you see extremists on the ballot if is because the districts are so slanted that viable candidates don't even waste their time running.

It isn't even in the top 150 most democratic districts according to both 538 and PVI, and out of 20 Illinois districts it is number 10 in terms of democratic lean. The guy they routinely elect, Dan Lipinski, is one of the most conservative democrats in all of congress and Republicans could absolutely be competitive here if they fielded a decent candidate. I have no idea what happened that only a nazi ran.
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Terrible news from Brazil: theyve just elected a fascist.

https://twitter.com/travis_waldron/status/1056676042570715137?s=21
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Supposedly they are already arresting and censoring anti-fascist and pro-democracy groups in universities:

https://twitter.com/castriotar/status/1055836519318122496

Well...this is seriously concerning. Brazil is one of the few South American countries that hasn't already genocided most of its non-white population.
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https://www.resetera.com/threads/brazilian-general-election-2018-ot-up-fascist-bolsonaro-won-and-will-be-president.73207/page-15#post-14315031

That site is insane.
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Corrik, that dude they just elected literally, publicly said he wanted to imprison gay people and his ideological opponents.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik, that dude they just elected literally, publicly said he wanted to imprison gay people and his ideological opponents.

You just said it was okay for someone to say they needed to resort to violence. Hot take there indeed!
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Corrik posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik, that dude they just elected literally, publicly said he wanted to imprison gay people and his ideological opponents.

You just said it was okay for someone to say they needed to resort to violence. Hot take there indeed!

If we elected a Democratic President who said he wanted to imprison you for your views, would you just go along quietly?
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In 9 days I get to vote against Devin Nunes.

He'll probably win anyways, but our local paper is opposing him for the first time in 16~ years so there's that.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Corrik, that dude they just elected literally, publicly said he wanted to imprison gay people and his ideological opponents.

You just said it was okay for someone to say they needed to resort to violence. Hot take there indeed!

If we elected a Democratic President who said he wanted to imprison you for your views, would you just go along quietly?

Do you not know how a Republic / Democracy works?

If I disagreed so egregiously with the (what appears to be) fairly elected President, I would take it as a sign that the country is probably not the one for me and take steps to moving to another country in which I could be comfortable with my government and the predominant nation views.

That said, is there even any proof to what you are claiming here? I know nothing about this President right now really besides a little bit off of wikipedia I just read. Is this actual provable things you are even claiming or is it just exaggerations we have seen with Trump by the media and opposition here?
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To make my stance clear. You can't say you support a democracy/democratic government (republic) and then when someone wins you are not okay with say you should resort to violence against said government.

That makes it clear you were not actually in support of a democracy anyways.
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Corrik once again doubling down on his stance that moving is the easiest thing in the world and anyone can do it whenever they want.

Before it was just states at least, now he's saying countries!

Not to mention that the way Brazil is going they'll start imprisoning people attempting to leave the country for political reasons soon enough.
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LapisLazuli posted...

Corrik once again doubling down on his stance that moving is the easiest thing in the world and anyone can do it whenever they want.

Before it was just states at least, now he's saying countries!

Not to mention that the way Brazil is going they'll start imprisoning people attempting to leave the country for political reasons soon enough.

Again. Do you have any proof of this besides sensationalist headlines, twitter posts, and huffington post articles?

To reiterate, you just denounced the MAGA bomber while also endorsing terrorism in Brazil against political opponents.

It should all be wrong. Not just when it is convenient for you.

I will say one thing though, calling for violence against the government would probably be grounds to you know... get arrested!
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Corrik posted...

To make my stance clear. You can't say you support a democracy/democratic government (republic) and then when someone wins you are not okay with say you should resort to violence against said government.

You literally can say this and have it be a self-consistent worldview.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

In 9 days I get to vote against Devin Nunes.

He'll probably win anyways, but our local paper is opposing him for the first time in 16~ years so there's that.

Sounds like me and my desire to vote against Ted Cruz (And Pete Sessions).

Allred actually stands a pretty decent chance though. Clinton won my district in 2016 even though Pete ran unopposed.

For anyone not knowledgable about the election in Brazil, here's a short piece from WaPo on him. I emphazie short. Last Week Tonight dedicated an episode to him and was more in-depth but I don't want to derail this with "biased source!" nonsense:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/10/28/critics-are-afraid-jair-bolsonaro-heres-where-he-stands-issues/

The most alarming (IMO) parts are towards the end where it has quotes under Law Enforcement and Democracy.
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You wont change anything in this country through voting nothing, absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, youll only change things by having a civil war and doing the work the military regime didnt do. Killing 30,000, starting with FHC [former president Fernando Henrique Cardoso]. Killing. If a few innocent people die, thats alright.

That's a pretty fucked up quote by the way. Interested in the context of this because it looks super appalling.
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Corrik posted...

To make my stance clear. You can't say you support a democracy/democratic government (republic) and then when someone wins you are not okay with say you should resort to violence against said government.

That makes it clear you were not actually in support of a democracy anyways.

In a vacuum I agree with this.

.

But what about when someone wins an election and starts literally destroying all of the democratic framework to prop themselves up as a leader for life? I'm not knowledgeable enough about what's happening in Brazil to say that's that's what's happening in this instance, but I could see some room for grey area in that stance.
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lmao thinking American elections are democratic
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Oh hey I guess we've reached the point where everyone needs to be reminded of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
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Reg posted...

Forceful_Dragon posted...

In 9 days I get to vote against Devin Nunes.

He'll probably win anyways, but our local paper is opposing him for the first time in 16~ years so there's that.

Sounds like me and my desire to vote against Ted Cruz (And Pete Sessions).

Allred actually stands a pretty decent chance though. Clinton won my district in 2016 even though Pete ran unopposed.

Janz seems like he has a shot, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
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My district is rated Likely R and I don't expect it to flip, but the chances aren't zero. If it does flip we're probably looking at like 60+ in the House though so that'd be something. >_>

Republicans have been flooding the air with negative ads the past few days so I mean, I guess they at least feel concerned enough to run them.
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xp1337 posted...

My district is rated Likely R and I don't expect it to flip, but the chances aren't zero. If it does flip we're probably looking at like 60+ in the House though so that'd be something. >_>

Republicans have been flooding the air with negative ads the past few days so I mean, I guess they at least feel concerned enough to run them.

I think you guys really struggle to grasp that just because a district might go a certain way doesn't mean it affects other areas. If your place went D, it would not mean anything for the house besides that it got one seat it wasn't likely to get.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Corrik posted...

To make my stance clear. You can't say you support a democracy/democratic government (republic) and then when someone wins you are not okay with say you should resort to violence against said government.

That makes it clear you were not actually in support of a democracy anyways.

In a vacuum I agree with this.

.

But what about when someone wins an election and starts literally destroying all of the democratic framework to prop themselves up as a leader for life? I'm not knowledgeable enough about what's happening in Brazil to say that's that's what's happening in this instance, but I could see some room for grey area in that stance.

The same people saying this are the ones who I have over and over stated Trump intended to install him as President for Life. Needless to say, taken with a huge grain of salt.
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Bolsonaro is most likely worse than Trump, and Brazils institutions are definitely weaker than Americas. Im not saying Brazils definitely going to become a dictatorship, but its much more likely there than in America.
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pyresword posted...

Corrik posted...

To make my stance clear. You can't say you support a democracy/democratic government (republic) and then when someone wins you are not okay with say you should resort to violence against said government.

You literally can say this and have it be a self-consistent worldview.

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Brazil is definitely going to become a dictatorship

Paratroopa1 posted...

Brazil is definitely going to become a dictatorship

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Corrik posted...

xp1337 posted...

My district is rated Likely R and I don't expect it to flip, but the chances aren't zero. If it does flip we're probably looking at like 60+ in the House though so that'd be something. >_>

Republicans have been flooding the air with negative ads the past few days so I mean, I guess they at least feel concerned enough to run them.

I think you guys really struggle to grasp that just because a district might go a certain way doesn't mean it affects other areas. If your place went D, it would not mean anything for the house besides that it got one seat it wasn't likely to get.

There is a general shift across the entire country though, many races are correlated with each other, although not to the extent whole states tend to be in presidential elections.

If Democrats are up +9 on a generic ballot they will have sweeping returns everywhere, even in races that would normally lean R or be competitive in likely R districts.
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Crossfiyah posted...

Corrik posted...

xp1337 posted...

My district is rated Likely R and I don't expect it to flip, but the chances aren't zero. If it does flip we're probably looking at like 60+ in the House though so that'd be something. >_>

Republicans have been flooding the air with negative ads the past few days so I mean, I guess they at least feel concerned enough to run them.

I think you guys really struggle to grasp that just because a district might go a certain way doesn't mean it affects other areas. If your place went D, it would not mean anything for the house besides that it got one seat it wasn't likely to get.

There is a general shift across the entire country though, many races are correlated with each other, although not to the extent whole states tend to be in presidential elections.

If Democrats are up +9 on a generic ballot they will have sweeping returns everywhere, even in races that would normally lean R or be competitive in likely R districts.

There is not a general shift. They average out one to try and make predictions in races in which polling little exists.

In fact, there have been times the generic ballot said one thing and the other party won seats.

Local races will decide seats.

As of now 205 are polling safely for Dems supposedly. 199 for Repubs.

With like 31 up for grabs or neutral.

The major issue Repubs have which could cost them seats is incumbents which left their seats. In some cases they were in heavy R districts but in some it could cost them a seat and even 1 seat could tip the balance.
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It's an error in cause and effect

One seat flipping to blue doesn't directly cause other seats to flip blue - but the underlying conditions that WOULD cause one seat to flip blue, is likely to also be the same underlying conditions that cause other seats to flip blue

Corrik posted...

To make my stance clear. You can't say you support a democracy/democratic government (republic) and then when someone wins you are not okay with say you should resort to violence against said government.

That makes it clear you were not actually in support of a democracy anyways.

Im so supportive of Democracy, if the American people voted to put people like me in jail, I guess im going to jail. - Corrik
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