Board 8 > deltarune.com

(+) Yeah! (+)

This quality rip fits so well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QBMOKQccMU" data-time="
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I'm finally off so I can play!
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I have no words!
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GenesisSaga posted...

I have no words!

Surely at least 'Ralsei is best fluffy boy'.
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Jevil for Character Battle bonus match against winner lets go!
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I woke up today with this overwhelming compulsion to cosplay Ralsei

I have no idea how to do cosplay but I really want to do this and I don't know why

I'm sure a bunch of other people will do a much better job BUT STILL

I mean
Ralsei is ...second best fluffy boi
(First is Asriel)
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"Man, either this is easier or I've gotten better at bullet hell! I bet I can even take this secret boss!"

lol
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yea, Jevil is a definite wake-up call from the rest of the game. I've heard it compared to Undying Undyne's difficulty. Doesn't help that there's a bug on some computers that has the game speed up on fullscreen, so /shrug.

It is a very fun fight, nonetheless.
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LunaticCritic posted...

yea, Jevil is a definite wake-up call from the rest of the game. I've heard it compared to Undying Undyne's difficulty. Doesn't help that there's a bug on some computers that has the game speed up on fullscreen, so /shrug.

It is a very fun fight, nonetheless.

I found Jevil a lot harder than Undyne the Undying. Beat the latter on my second try while the former took quite a bit more than that. Though admittedly I had already seen Undyne and Sans in youtube videos before fighting them myself, and against Jevil I was pretty stingy with healing items because I didn't know what was coming up
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thoughts on the battle system

It needs some work still. I don't think having multiple party members really works that great in the Undertale system, at least not in its current form.

95% of the time I was just blocking with Susie and Ralsei to build up TP. Their unique attacks are pretty useless. I never used rude buster a single time and Ralsei's heal is outclassed by items. Kris being the only character to ACT makes the others feel like dead weight.

At first I thought for the whole game, you'd have Susie auto-attacking. That's a pretty interesting wrinkle to have in Undertale. It adds a ticking clock element to the combat. Spices it up a little. Buuut that's very quickly thrown away with the warn mechanic, in which you waste a turn to completely nullify Susie for the rest of the battle. And then by the end she's just a normal party member you control. Kind of a missed opportunity to distinguish Deltarune from Undertale, imo
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Undyne was waaaaaay harder than Jevil. She took me just as many tries as Sans. well maybe not, but still way more than Jevil
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I like the party system a lot, but the individual battle design definitely needs work. Like you said, almost all of it is generating TP, and the heals are strictly worse than the items, so the optimal way to play is to grind money and buy items. Earlier in the game the TP was great because it let you do spells (like heal) without having to spend items. It felt way more like Xenoblade's "full reset after each battle" kinda system. But it definitely became item heavy in the end.

But all the little actions you can take are awesome. It's way more cinematic than Undertale and it really helps develop Susie and Ralsei through the mechanics. That makes it good enough to me, since the narrative is the most important thing anyways.

Something that could improve it is if each character was made more unique. So TP would be just for Kris, Ralsei would have something else, and Susie would have a rage meter or something that made her auto-attack when full. That way, the optimal way to play would be to coordinate all 3 characters as best as possible, instead of doing everything with Kris and using the other 2 as support/TP slaves.
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The little actions you can take are awesome, but the fact only Kris can do them sucks. The game needs a system that lets everyone have their own actions, and maybe combo them like in Chrono Trigger.

That said knowing Undertale it's possible there is a story reason for why only Kris can act, but I hope that isn't the case.

I haven't seen how to fight Jevil. What do I do, and should I start a new file to do it?
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Yeah I also liked the battle system a lot more when Susie was a berserker. But the narrative importance of her being controllable and the dialogue options you can get are also really good, so you need to continuously switch it up. I like foolmo's suggestion, but maybe it can be possible to keep altering the characters' battle strategies based on the story without it feeling forced.

The concept of having to plan around your own party opposing the main strategy is really interesting. I had a thought that maybe Ralsei could end up as a "berserker." I dont think that's too much of a stretch - imagine a chapter where the "correct" thing to do is defeat enemies normally (they dont die in this game, right?), but Ralsei keeps trying to spare them or use your TP by healing. Also the fact that the boss of Chapter 1 is a legitimately unsympathetic villain who won't back down no matter what makes me think Toby might be playing around with the black and white morality. In Undertale that was saved for Asgore, who was still sympathetic. Probably overthinking this, but I have absolutely no clue how dark Toby is willing to get without a separate Genocide route.

Also I'm still not clear on how "Tired" works. It seems to be either a threshold at low HP, or a dialogue puzzle, but not both. If they instead let it stack so that Suzie could contribute to Tiredness with incremental damage, it would at least be a way for her to contribute besides spamming defend for meter.
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HaRRicH posted...

I haven't seen how to fight Jevil. What do I do, and should I start a new file to do it?

Go to the ???? floor in Card Castle, talk to the person behind the door, go talk to Seam to get a piece of the key, get another near the paper Ballerina place in a chest, and get the last one past that puzzle early in the game about knowing the order of the floors in Card Castle. Then get the key fixed by the hammer guy, return to the Castle, and get your ass kicked
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

If they instead let it stack so that Suzie could contribute to Tiredness with incremental damage, it would at least be a way for her to contribute besides spamming defend for meter.

This is what I thought Susie was gonna have to be used for at first
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hombad46 posted...

HaRRicH posted...

I haven't seen how to fight Jevil. What do I do, and should I start a new file to do it?

Go to the ???? floor in Card Castle, talk to the person behind the door, go talk to Seam to get a piece of the key, get another near the paper Ballerina place in a chest, and get the last one past that puzzle early in the game about knowing the order of the floors in Card Castle. Then get the key fixed by the hammer guy, return to the Castle, and get your ass kicked

To add to this, the second piece is in a chest that's only accessible through a hidden path (i.e. not shown on the map but you can walk on it), in the map with the paper ballerina going in a circle, go to the bottom-left area where there's also a cycle of ballerina, then there's a hidden are in the south. No indication whatsoever so just go for it. Then follow the path until you reach the chest.
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Completely agree that the battle system is really promising but would be better with some fine tuning. While I don't think Undertale and Deltarune are really about the combat system, really, I do think that what Deltarune has has the potential to be really fun on its own merits so I'd like to see it meet its potential, since I think it would actually be cool if this game was closer to being a standard RPG while still keeping the things that make Undertale unique.

I agree that the 'ticking clock' idea with Susie being a berserker was an extremely cool idea and a really interesting way to twist Undertale's formula, but I am sad that the game doesn't actually do much with it - there are hardly any battles where this is really a danger. Although I do ultimately like what he did with Susie's character development and such I do think it neuters her a bit to have her become fully controllable - the parts of the game where you're stuck with her and she's being a liability are probably the most tense and interesting parts of the game.

I do really love the addition of party members in this game which I think gives fights even more personality than they had in Undertale. Susie and Ralsei are both great and I hope we get a whole bunch more of them in the final game, although it'd be cool if we got other characters, too!

I just realized that I desperately want Noelle to be a party member so I really hope she doesn't die

I think if it's an episodic format then Noelle and others will def be party members

Also something I thought of, when Noelle mentions Kris putting ketchup on his arm and saying it was blood.... it probably wasn't ketchup
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Raka_Putra posted...

hombad46 posted...

HaRRicH posted...

I haven't seen how to fight Jevil. What do I do, and should I start a new file to do it?

Go to the ???? floor in Card Castle, talk to the person behind the door, go talk to Seam to get a piece of the key, get another near the paper Ballerina place in a chest, and get the last one past that puzzle early in the game about knowing the order of the floors in Card Castle. Then get the key fixed by the hammer guy, return to the Castle, and get your ass kicked

To add to this, the second piece is in a chest that's only accessible through a hidden path (i.e. not shown on the map but you can walk on it), in the map with the paper ballerina going in a circle, go to the bottom-left area where there's also a cycle of ballerina, then there's a hidden are in the south. No indication whatsoever so just go for it. Then follow the path until you reach the chest.

This is actually the one keypiece I already had. I'll investigate the others soon, thanks!
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And as for the battle mechanics: you guys have already touched on its coolest aspects, but I think Toby's in a flexible enough position to make many more cool circumstances happen with this team. My gut feeling is he's just beginning to see what players can figure out and do with the system...so I'm gonna give him time.
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I'm really hoping it's not episodic format because I really just want more Ralsei D:
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Zigzagoon posted...

I'm really hoping it's not episodic format because I really just want more Ralsei D:

I sort of have to imagine that we'll see Ralsei again

It's possible he's self-contained to chapter 1 but I really don't think so

I feel like he was just an imagination so he won't show up again
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it's possible we won't see him again, but, I dunno

I definitely don't 100% think for sure that he's a continuing main character (might or might not be) but I think he'll show up again in some fashion or another just because I feel like it would be sort of sad to give us this much attachment to him and then NEVER show him again. Like, even Toriel shows up again at the end of Undertale despite her arc wrapping up in that game's chapter 1

Field of Hopes and Dreams so good.
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Ralsei, if truly an imagination stemmed from the pink horns Kris used to wear, will likely stay around until Asriel shows up on break from college or something. That is a plot bomb waiting to go off for so many different reasons.

I kind of want Toby to partner with Devolver just so that we get something related to Delta Rune at Devolver's E3 tbqh.

That was also my first reaction when I saw they tweeted him. Would probably be the best thing announced at E3 2019 if it happened.
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There's nothing a publisher would have to offer him. I think he's smart enough not to go that route anyways.
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Hmm... I disagree? A publisher may be exactly what he needs right now.

Same

Also Devolver has a good track record with helping small dev teams complete their games.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Hmm... I disagree? A publisher may be exactly what he needs right now.

Why?

Like think about what a publisher actually provides, he doesn't need any of it
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If a publisher doesnt step on his creative toes then I mean... why not get your game funded.
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foolm0r0n posted...

ZeldaTPLink posted...

Hmm... I disagree? A publisher may be exactly what he needs right now.

Why?

Like think about what a publisher actually provides, he doesn't need any of it

Hmm money, people, computers, programming knowhow...

He just took 3 years to make a demo. It's clear he needs a lot, and the kind of lot a publisher usually provides.

He's got way more money than he needs to make this or any game he wants. Specifically because he self published Undertale so a publisher didn't take 80-100% of his money (as they do from other indies).

Publishers don't have any people or tech knowledge either. All they could help with is connecting him to other people. But it's already any dev's dream to work on this game. That's why Toby said on twitter that he will let you know if he wants you to work with him, he's not taking applications. I know I would literally quit everything I am doing to do it in a heartbeat if he asked.

All that's left is marketing help. But what Devolver game has even been 1/10th as popular as Undertale? Marketing is also just a cash game, which again he has more than enough to afford if necessary.

This is why Devolver is begging for Toby. They would definitely try working with him for free and try to get his brand under their brand. But he's obviously not gonna do that. Maybe an informal cameo at the E3 presentation or something, but never a publishing deal.
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I don't have access to Toby's finances but I don't think it's likely Undertale just made him a millionaire to the point it can feed him for years while also funding the production of a much bigger game that will need a team of people.

Also I may be confusing publisher with game studio. I'm not sure about marketing but he certainly needs a studio, and it may be wise to hire one that already exists because, did you hear? He just took 3 years to.make a demo.

And if it's easier to get a studio if he has a publisher, that will be great too.

Yeah publisher is totally different than a studio. He doesn't need to hire a whole studio, just a team of a few people. That's how indies work usually. But I dunno what he's planning really.

Either way he definitely has many millions. Apparently the game sold like 3 mil on steam alone. That is even more than I thought. With other platforms, I would say he's got at least $10 mil in his pocket (after distribution and taxes). Even if he only had 10% of that, that's still enough to fund 8-20 person-years of dev, depending on how cheaply the devs can live.

3 years for making a demo like this is pretty impressive though. Most indies take longer to make something way shittier (like me). You just don't hear about them because they don't come out or are shitty.

Really he's in the best dev position possible right. He's got the money, he's got the fanbase, he's got the talent clamoring to work for him. The main question is whether he can take a step back and be satisfied with a game that isn't 100% made by him. He's been able to collab with people really well so far so it prob won't be a problem but still.
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Just played Jevil.

Yeesh. Probably doesn't help my Steam controller's joystick being pressed means my on-screen keyboard pops up.

Can he be spared or pacified? I'm not seeing hints of my efforts working yet, though I realize there may be more at play than I first realize too (like Undyne's first fight).
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HaRRicH posted...

Just played Jevil.

Yeesh. Probably doesn't help my Steam controller's joystick being pressed means my on-screen keyboard pops up.

Can he be spared or pacified? I'm not seeing hints of my efforts working yet, though I realize there may be more at play than I first realize too (like Undyne's first fight).

Only pacified. Just gotta bear with it and use the ACT until he's tired.
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HaRRicH posted...

Just played Jevil.

Yeesh. Probably doesn't help my Steam controller's joystick being pressed means my on-screen keyboard pops up.

Can he be spared or pacified? I'm not seeing hints of my efforts working yet, though I realize there may be more at play than I first realize too (like Undyne's first fight).

He can be pacified when hes tired, and there are ACTs to do exactly that. Why would you think he cant be?
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well
he can be both pacified and "killed"

and you get different rewards depending on which you choose
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Some tips: During his spinning spades attack you can just go down into the gap between bullets and they'll all safely pass you. The carousel's heads don't have hitboxes so make sure to just focus on dodging the bottom. Most of card suit attacks aim at your position so you should do that shmup technique, streaming I think, where you slowly move away from them. If your inventory is not filled with Darkburgers, both Susie and Ralsei heal a lot more from the heart donut than the choco diamond while Kris heals a lot more from the chocolate.
You should piroutte if you need a turn to heal because it still helps tire him out. The effects are determined based on what turn it is (it replays after 9 turns) so just make sure not to piroutte on turn 8 (which boosts Jevil's attack power) and 3 (which lowers your invincibility frames. This one isn't that bad though). Turn 7 jumbles everyone's hp bars around so be wary who you're healing that turn because you might heal the wrong person. If you're aiming to kill him, mashing the z button with rude buster deals more damage.
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Don't forget the $6.12 a week Toby makes off of Homestuck Bandcamp royalties.
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hombad46 posted...

He can be pacified when hes tired, and there are ACTs to do exactly that. Why would you think he cant be?

Wasn't seeing additional reactions like some bosses give, so I probably just gave up too soon. Thanks!
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I TIRED HIM OUT BUT WASN'T ABLE TO KREP MY PARTY ALIVE LONG ENOUGH TO FINISH THE JOB, AUGH

Just upgrated my armor and got another Dark Burger, let's gooooo.
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Yeah hes the only enemy I pacified because I didnt want to risk dying in the turns itd take to kill him
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