Board 8 > Danganronpa M - CHAPTER 3: Use Your Noodle

(+) Yeah! (+)

IfGodCouldDie posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

I saw in scanning Kanz apparently has a solid logical case for Doop?

But hey what if Doop is town and Niablis is scum and we're right?

What if, exactly? And what about the opposite?

Just saying, whole logic is part of mafia, it doesn't mean you always have to make your choices logically. Sometimes you take shots.

*while

##Vote: Neab

The man gave fake reasoning for an awful vote, went back on it, claimed he didn't go back on it, and visited a dead person. We're lynching him today.

He won't even actually play a chess game with me :(
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EXTREEEME

[4] Doopliss - Sheep, Kanz, Sultan, IGCD
[3] Neabliss - Corrik, Puns, Doopliss
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Too bad we couldn't end the day tonight.
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If we lynch Doop, Niablis is still going to look suspect no matter what. We shouldn't let the fact the gladiator confirmed himself be part of the reason we lynch him.

turbopuns2 posted...

If we lynch Doop, Niablis is still going to look suspect no matter what. We shouldn't let the fact the gladiator confirmed himself be part of the reason we lynch him.

If we lynch Neab how does Doop look any better?
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I don't think I've said Doop would look better?

surprised Neab hasn't placed a vote on Doop yet
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Johnbobb posted...

surprised Neab hasn't placed a vote on Doop yet

I'm not gonna try to read into that

@HanOfTheNekos who are you voting

turbopuns2 posted...

If we lynch Doop, Niablis is still going to look suspect no matter what. We shouldn't let the fact the gladiator confirmed himself be part of the reason we lynch him.

This isn't true

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good - one where Johnbobb receives his gift, and the other where he's blocked and Han gets off a scan and confirms someone. I get the concept of gut, but lynching Neablis now is a low percentage play. Would you be willing to lynch him if it meant you died tomorrow on a town flip, Puns? Because that's about my level of confidence in our ability to get something good out of Doop's lynch.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good

You must know a lot more about night actions than me this game to be so confident in your scenarios bearing fruit.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Would you be willing to lynch him if it meant you died tomorrow on a town flip, Puns? Because that's about my level of confidence in our ability to get something good out of Doop's lynch.

I would not, because if I'm wrong then I've confirmed myself too soon. My role wouldn't be SUPER EFFECTIVE when it goes off.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good - one where Johnbobb receives his gift, and the other where he's blocked and Han gets off a scan and confirms someone. I get the concept of gut, but lynching Neablis now is a low percentage play. Would you be willing to lynch him if it meant you died tomorrow on a town flip, Puns? Because that's about my level of confidence in our ability to get something good out of Doop's lynch.

Reminder that this astronomically makes no sense.
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There is upside to being wrong sometimes.

Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good - one where Johnbobb receives his gift, and the other where he's blocked and Han gets off a scan and confirms someone. I get the concept of gut, but lynching Neablis now is a low percentage play. Would you be willing to lynch him if it meant you died tomorrow on a town flip, Puns? Because that's about my level of confidence in our ability to get something good out of Doop's lynch.

Reminder that this astronomically makes no sense.

Why not? Like, don't just say it makes no sense. Say why. Nobody cares about the hot take, they care about the logic behind it.

turbopuns2 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

I outlined two scenarios out of four where Neablis looks good

You must know a lot more about night actions than me this game to be so confident in your scenarios bearing fruit.

Scum hasn't given me any reason to doubt they're right so far. If they have more power to fling around they're using it very conservatively, considering we haven't seen any extra shenanigans past the daykill.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Why not? Like, don't just say it makes no sense. Say why. Nobody cares about the hot take, they care about the logic behind it.

John receiving nothing proves nothing. John is no different than than any other person in the game. He is not confirmed town or anything. If neablis is scum, he could just kill John anyways. Or claim roleblocked and do whatever.

He could be scum inventor which just gives johnbobb something anyways.

Like, nothing about this makes any sense.
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Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Why not? Like, don't just say it makes no sense. Say why. Nobody cares about the hot take, they care about the logic behind it.

John receiving nothing proves nothing. John is no different than than any other person in the game. He is not confirmed town or anything. If neablis is scum, he could just kill John anyways. Or claim roleblocked and do whatever.

He could be scum inventor which just gives johnbobb something anyways.

Like, nothing about this makes any sense.

A) John was tunnelled onto by scum, and unless you think they wanted to exchange sbell for another mafia, there's no reason to believe he isn't much more town than most people.

B) If they kill John, we get ahead. Unless you think it's a bigger loss than losing Han, or you, or whoever else you think is a good player?

C) If Neablis claims roleblocked and Han lives (or dies but you watch him) and tells us he's blocked, we just lynch him and get ourselves an easy scum.

Like I'm not sure why this isn't making sense to you Corrik. Yes, this has a bunch of assumptions, but they're reasonable assumptions. You can think of ways the scum tunnelled onto John if he's not town, or how Han might be scum fooling us so we shouldn't trust him if he says he gets RB'd on the same day Neab does, or whatever, but all the scenarios that make doubting this make sense are improbable compared to the interpretations of the facts up to this point that lead to this direction. Maybe we play mafia very differently, but to me these are pretty safe bets.
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I guess I've been explaining why this is but I'd like to expressly state it for emphasis.

The main reason I want to lynch Neablis is because from my perspective of playing my role well, I strongly benefit from pursuing the Neablis->Sheep connection. Answers to my questions sooner rather than later is better for town in the end.

If Doop is scum, then scum wanted us to focus on Doop today. There is more to glean from lynching Neablis. More answers and more perspective informed by multiple days votals. Voting doop is just saying "raaaawr Gladiator!" Why?

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Why not? Like, don't just say it makes no sense. Say why. Nobody cares about the hot take, they care about the logic behind it.

John receiving nothing proves nothing. John is no different than than any other person in the game. He is not confirmed town or anything. If neablis is scum, he could just kill John anyways. Or claim roleblocked and do whatever.

He could be scum inventor which just gives johnbobb something anyways.

Like, nothing about this makes any sense.

A) John was tunnelled onto by scum, and unless you think they wanted to exchange sbell for another mafia, there's no reason to believe he isn't much more town than most people.

B) If they kill John, we get ahead. Unless you think it's a bigger loss than losing Han, or you, or whoever else you think is a good player?

C) If Neablis claims roleblocked and Han lives (or dies but you watch him) and tells us he's blocked, we just lynch him and get ourselves an easy scum.

Like I'm not sure why this isn't making sense to you Corrik. Yes, this has a bunch of assumptions, but they're reasonable assumptions. You can think of ways the scum tunnelled onto John if he's not town, or how Han might be scum fooling us so we shouldn't trust him if he says he gets RB'd on the same day Neab does, or whatever, but all the scenarios that make doubting this make sense are improbable compared to the interpretations of the facts up to this point that lead to this direction. Maybe we play mafia very differently, but to me these are pretty safe bets.

1. No. It isn't reasonable assumptions. If anything, it is just you trying to dictate actions. There is nothing that says Johnbobb is town. You are just trying to hinge plans on what you personally think. I have seen dozens of games where scum has tunnelled scum. If Johnbobb was spent extra kill and Sbell was godfather, he may have been deemed more valuable. There is nothing confirming johnbobb town in anyway.

2. If neablis kills johnbobb it supposedly in your mind confirms something. How do we get more ahead? They obviously just roleblock the cop. Your power is spent. My power isn't directable not identifiable. So how exactly are you getting ahead? All it does is in your mind confirm someone. And that is even assuming johnbonn isn't even scum. If he is and town sheep gives him a gift, that is nice. If they are both scum, they can lie about it and say it happened. This plan is so not thought out it is dumb.

3. If Neablis is roleblocked and Han is killed where do you get a confirmed scum at? All you get is a dead cop (assuming he is town). Town Han could get shot whole town neablis is roleblocked. It isn't exactly rocket science.
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turbopuns2 posted...

If Doop is scum, then scum wanted us to focus on Doop today. There is more to glean from lynching Neablis. More answers and more perspective informed by multiple days votals. Voting doop is just saying "raaaawr Gladiator!" Why?

I honestly have zero freaking idea what you are even saying either. Does anyone wanna make sense today?

Killing mean and getting information on sheep helps you play your role better in which if you die you can still keep voting? What?

If doop is scum, scum wants us to Lynch scum doop so we should lynch neablis for information?

Like what the hell are you and kanz even talking about.
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1. No. It isn't reasonable assumptions. If anything, it is just you trying to dictate actions. There is nothing that says Johnbobb is town. You are just trying to hinge plans on what you personally think. I have seen dozens of games where scum has tunnelled scum. If Johnbobb was spent extra kill and Sbell was godfather, he may have been deemed more valuable. There is nothing confirming johnbobb town in anyway.

Do you think Sbell of all people is the one who would be gutsy enough to bus a teammate like that

like, you're not actually applying yourself to this specific game, with these specific players. Talk of scum killing scum is all well and good, but it takes skill and balls and Sbell did not display either one of those.

2) Oh, so you finally explicitly say your power isn't directable that way. That's good to know. This requires us to revise plans but only a bit. I'll see what changes tomorrow when I'm less sleepy.

That aside, the point is that we make scum waste a shot killing Johnbobb and that is in and of itself a win. Or do you think he's going to be a scumhunting ace that you'd totally wanna have in the final 3 if it came down to it?

3) This is probably our weakest situation, for sure. If Town has any unclaimed power, we might be able to get something out of it, but realistically it probably dead-ends us. Still, that's better than the crapshoot of just lynching Neab and for sure getting nothing at all if he's not scum.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Oh, so you finally explicitly say your power isn't directable that way.

I said I don't target or visit people from the onset.
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I am trying to get my reads together just in case I get lynched today tbh, which granted there is a real chance of that I think there are several people who are weighing us currently, Han will tie up the vote at 4 at some point I believe.

So anyway, if anyone has any specific questions for me just @ me while I am going through previous threads.

turbopuns2 posted...

If Doop is scum, then scum wanted us to focus on Doop today. There is more to glean from lynching Neablis. More answers and more perspective informed by multiple days votals. Voting doop is just saying "raaaawr Gladiator!" Why?

This is what gives me pause, for different reasons. Doop gladiated Neab almost immediately. Why not DYL? If Doop is Scum here, then this gladiate specifically makes DYL not a target. Either means that:

1. DYL is Scum and being protected, possibly in exchange for Doop.
2. Neab is Scum and Scum is ensuring one of them gets lynched today in exchange for the other looking really good.
3. Neither is Scum and Scum decided they would force a 50/50... to keep pressure off other places?

Out of all these scenarios, 1 makes the most sense.

Now, if Doop is Town, scenarios fly out the wazoo.

I really like the idea of a Doop/DYL Scumteam but I still think Neab is lying about his role.
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Oh hey Neab.

Are you lying about your role? Y/n?
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Doop didnt seem to care about DYL much at all yesterday.
If DYL happens to be a scumroleblocker, I can totally see scumDoop sacrificing himself to save him for at least one more night.
But it feels like Doop was way too twitchy about it for it to be premeditated.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Oh hey Neab.

Are you lying about your role? Y/n?

Nah all my mechanics and everything i've put into the thread is true

HanOfTheNekos posted...

turbopuns2 posted...

If Doop is scum, then scum wanted us to focus on Doop today. There is more to glean from lynching Neablis. More answers and more perspective informed by multiple days votals. Voting doop is just saying "raaaawr Gladiator!" Why?

This is what gives me pause, for different reasons. Doop gladiated Neab almost immediately. Why not DYL? If Doop is Scum here, then this gladiate specifically makes DYL not a target. Either means that:

1. DYL is Scum and being protected, possibly in exchange for Doop.
2. Neab is Scum and Scum is ensuring one of them gets lynched today in exchange for the other looking really good.
3. Neither is Scum and Scum decided they would force a 50/50... to keep pressure off other places?

Out of all these scenarios, 1 makes the most sense.

Now, if Doop is Town, scenarios fly out the wazoo.

I really like the idea of a Doop/DYL Scumteam but I still think Neab is lying about his role.

1 is literally the least likeliest.
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I also want to say Neab and Doop probably arent scum together, because Neab wanted to lynch Doop day2.
But looking closer I see Neab never made any work of that.

Scenario 2 is possible. Though I dont know how scenario 3 happens. What are you implying there, Han?
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htaeD posted...

I also want to say Neab and Doop probably arent scum together, because Neab wanted to lynch Doop day2.
But looking closer I see Neab never made any work of that.

Scenario 2 is possible. Though I dont know how scenario 3 happens. What are you implying there, Han?

EH, I disagree that I never made any work about it. I posted my thoughts in thread I tried to draw peoples attention to it but was ignored for the most part and then the thread derailed into the Han/Sbell/Neablis/John lynch I believe and consolidation is important even if I am somewhat ignored.

Well you did vote him. I can give you that much.

... what were your thoughts on DYL at the time anyway?
It sounds like you didnt want sbell to die, but you didnt help him until your own name was thrown into the mix of lynches.
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Minor point

Sbell talking about the game being overpowered, after the copclaim from Han, seems like genuine whining to me. (No offense, sbell)
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htaeD posted...

Well you did vote him. I can give you that much.

... what were your thoughts on DYL at the time anyway?
It sounds like you didnt want sbell to die, but you didnt help him until your own name was thrown into the mix of lynches.

I did not have a scum read on SBell at the time tbh. I disagree that I did not do something else I was on the closest wagon to him at the time I think it was john (?).

For DYL I was still town on him due to his read posts about people.

htaeD posted...

Minor point

Sbell talking about the game being overpowered, after the copclaim from Han, seems like genuine whining to me. (No offense, sbell)

Also its worth noting that Hans initial entrance into the thread Sbell jumped on him with DYL and doop, and sbell. Which is interesting as Doop and Sbell reasoning was very very poor and sbell reaction to the push back from han looked much different than when he was last scum and the push back his scum partner did the previous games. Sbell reaction in the previous game was to push harder here it was to fall away when confronted.

Personally I think it points to Han being town in any case

DYL does look good for the final vote on Sbell at least. Though he did talk himself into it earlier and held it back for admittedly understandable reasons. (dont hammer too early)
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DYL and Neab both being Town doesn't make sense unless there's a Poisoner or Ninja in addition to a daykill and a Godfather.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Do you think Sbell of all people is the one who would be gutsy enough to bus a teammate like that

Yes.
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Corrik posted...

Killing mean and getting information on sheep helps you play your role better in which if you die you can still keep voting? What?

If doop is scum, scum wants us to Lynch scum doop so we should lynch neablis for information?

I suggested just up the page that the timing of my death matters for my role.

Chris said if I full claimed he would move on. I never said I full claimed or that there wasn't more to it. I only gave what was essential for him to see the town perspective of my play.

Now, that I feel it's relevant, I'm telling you it makes a difference when I die.

turbopuns2 posted...

Corrik posted...

Killing mean and getting information on sheep helps you play your role better in which if you die you can still keep voting? What?

If doop is scum, scum wants us to Lynch scum doop so we should lynch neablis for information?

I suggested just up the page that the timing of my death matters for my role.

Chris said if I full claimed he would move on. I never said I full claimed or that there wasn't more to it. I only gave what was essential for him to see the town perspective of my play.

Now, that I feel it's relevant, I'm telling you it makes a difference when I die.

Ok
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So Sbell

Topic 1:
Had some minor buddying up to Neab in topic1, and called FFDNut town after FFDnut called him town. Nothing major I know. I just want to keep track of interactions in case contradictions come up.

Sbell went in on wanting to test Puns day1 `for the good of town`. Comes across as wanting to take the easy lynch day1. (Plus I already thought puns was town anyway)

Corrik also went after Sbell hard because of what he said about Harris looking different. So at least some points for Corrik there.

Sheep also called Sbell scum. But didnt really explain why yet. A decent start for him, but I would have wanted more.
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htaeD posted...

I also want to say Neab and Doop probably arent scum together, because Neab wanted to lynch Doop day2.
But looking closer I see Neab never made any work of that.

Scenario 2 is possible. Though I dont know how scenario 3 happens. What are you implying there, Han?

Why the fuck would he challenge a fellow scum mate that doesnt even make sense to begin with.

The thing that keeps boggling me is I could see Doop being the "counter" to the day kill for town but hes acted scummy and could have picked a better person to fight
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Topic 2
Han also called Sbell scum without reason as one of the first things after his arrival. Sbell immediately countervotes too.

I imagine they probably cant think that far back, but Sheep/Han:
do yo remember why you called sbell scum back then?
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turbopuns2 posted...

Corrik posted...

Killing mean and getting information on sheep helps you play your role better in which if you die you can still keep voting? What?

If doop is scum, scum wants us to Lynch scum doop so we should lynch neablis for information?

I suggested just up the page that the timing of my death matters for my role.

Chris said if I full claimed he would move on. I never said I full claimed or that there wasn't more to it. I only gave what was essential for him to see the town perspective of my play.

Now, that I feel it's relevant, I'm telling you it makes a difference when I die.

Makes a difference how?
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I said I felt SBell was slightly scum when I replaced in, because I had similar gut vibes to last game (where he was also scum) but after interacting with him more I leaned slightly Town.
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Why the f*** would he challenge a fellow scum mate that doesnt even make sense to begin with.

Now I am not a strong believer of this theory but I know the answer:

Reverse psychology.
Doop was not a player who could ensure his own survival in a gladiator match anyway.
So if he drags one of his own in a match, he ensures at least one of them comes out looking good.

If Doop is scum, I think its likelier he is sacrificing himself though. Which would mean one or two other scum were in our sights before his power went off.
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Sheep007 posted...

I said I felt SBell was slightly scum when I replaced in, because I had similar gut vibes to last game (where he was also scum) but after interacting with him more I leaned slightly Town.

Thanks for the quick answer. You were keeping up before you replaced in, werent you?
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Makes a difference how?

I don't see any reason to say more about it right now.