Current Events > Where do you stand in the black guy (ben) Night of The Living Dead controversy?

(+) Yeah! (+)

For those who don't know, Night of the Living Dead is a 1960s Horror Movie that is widely considered to be the popularization of modern Zombies in media and one of the greatest horror movies ever made. With movies too this day ripping it off and stealing or at least being inspired by ideas or cinematography from it.

It also caused quite a stir for being the first ever horror movie to cast a black man in the lead and one of the first movies ever made in all of American history to cast a black guy in the lead without it being relevant that he was black.

This is because like Ripley from Alien the character was written for a white guy and they only cause Jones because he was the best actor who auditioned for the role.

However this caused an argument between actor Daune Jones and writer/director/everythinger George Romero.

Jones was massively aware of the racial tension and wanted to use it in the movie. He wanted his character to be more angry and for other characters to bring his race up. Especially considering a focal point of the movie comes from deciding which idea the group should follow. He also was massively uncomfortable with some scenes, for example him punching a white woman in the face because she was hysterical. Which he saw as problematic.

Romero however being from the Bronx was not aware of racial tension, didn't see/understand the issues, refused to change the script and said if anything the fact Ben is just a random dude and no one brings any of this shit up makes it a bigger statement than if they played off of it.

Romero said years later that in retrospect he was wrong and wished he had listened to Jones.

This has lead to decades of debate amongst film buffs and in the past couple of decades, "internet social justice commentators" about who was right?



Should they have played off who Ben was and base characters off real world attitudes? Or should they have just stuck to the original script like they did.

What does CE Think?
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Dude they made Barbra just a mindless idiot the whole movie with no control, Ben hitting her was the only response he could of done cause she wouldn't listen to anything.

I think Romero did it right, I just don't like endings like the original night has. That's the only thing that should of changed. I don't care that it wouldn't be some cliche ending, but to just end like it does, feels like I wasted time watching in the first place.
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KillerKhan420 posted...

Dude they made Barbra just a mindless idiot the whole movie with no control, Ben hitting her was the only response he could of done cause she wouldn't listen to anything.

You say that but the Barb in the remakes was kinda meh

I think Romero did it right, I just don't like endings like the original night has. That's the only thing that should of changed. I don't care that it wouldn't be some cliche ending, but to just end like it does, feels like I wasted time watching in the first place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq5ovHak0FE" data-time="
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The remake was better.
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Jagermeister513 posted...

The remake was better.

What makes you say that?
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weird for an actor to demand the script be changed

It's a great movie. If they turned it into a political commentary I don't know if it would still be great.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Jagermeister513 posted...

The remake was better.

What makes you say that?

That's easy to answer, the asshole gets killed (Cooper) and at least one person survived. What really sucked is in the remake Cooper is right though. It just sucks about the cut stuff, it would of been awesome to see it all in the movie.
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The film already plays out as a pretty effective allegory for the struggle of black men in America, even if its unintentional. He does everything right, survives against all odds, only to be mistakenly shot without a second thought by the people who were meant to save him.

It woukd have been nice if they were a bit more heavy handed with it imo, like Dawn was with its themes of consumerism.
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Milkman5 posted...

weird for an actor to demand the script be changed

Not really at all but we all know why you think so
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KillerKhan420 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Jagermeister513 posted...

The remake was better.

What makes you say that?

That's easy to answer, the asshole gets killed (Cooper) and at least one person survived. What really sucked is in the remake Cooper is right though. It just sucks about the cut stuff, it would of been awesome to see it all in the movie.

Cooper was right the entire time and Barbara was right too when she was like "We can just walk right by them, they're slow,". Good on her for shooting that piece of shit though.
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Milkman5 posted...

weird for an actor to demand the script be changed

Not really. It's actually very common.

eggcorn posted...

It's a great movie. If they turned it into a political commentary I don't know if it would still be great.

You can argue it still has political commentary

Tactical_Spork posted...

. He does everything right,

He really doesn't.

KillerKhan420 posted...

That's easy to answer, the asshole gets killed (Cooper) and at least one person survived. What really sucked is in the remake Cooper is right though. It just sucks about the cut stuff, it would of been awesome to see it all in the movie.

What are you on about?

Cooper gets killed and was right in the original too.

Just sounds like you're mad that Ben died but that's what makes the movie's ending so memorable. There is no sunset. The "Mindless Zombies" still got him, even if they were other humans.
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@UnfairRepresent That's a really poignant last sentence. A lot of truth there.
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CreekCo posted...

@UnfairRepresent That's a really poignant last sentence. A lot of truth there.

Yes.

And that's one of the reasons why the movie stuck out so much.

Infact one of the movie companies wanted them to change the ending and add a romance story, but Romero refused.
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I have to agree with Ben's race being a non-factor. It would've turned the film into a racial parable; especially with the ending being what it was. As it stands, it's more open to interpretation. Is it about political paranoia? Racism? Dehumanization? Or is it just a damn good scary movie?

And while I don't approve of a man slapping a woman, I'm glad that scene was a man slapping a woman and not a black man slapping a white woman. The lead character slapping a "hysterical" female character was sadly a commonality in 50s and 60s cinema. The trope's eulogy in Airplane was one of the funniest moments in that particular film though.

It would have been much worse if they were more heavy handed about Ben's race.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Romero however being from the Bronx was not aware of racial tension

Auto agree with Jones.

remember the black guy in the gold shirt in ce
like I remember him being between two chicks, maybe it wasn't his shirt that was gold but he was definitely holding some kind of gold cloth
something like he had "black guy" ms-painted onto his white shirt too
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Focusing on race might've caused problems for the film seeing as Ben had the wrong survival strategy.

UnfairRepresent posted...

CreekCo posted...

@UnfairRepresent That's a really poignant last sentence. A lot of truth there.

Yes.

And that's one of the reasons why the movie stuck out so much.

Infact one of the movie companies wanted them to change the ending and add a romance story, but Romero refused.

You know, you're really ok when you want to be
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CreekCo posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

CreekCo posted...

@UnfairRepresent That's a really poignant last sentence. A lot of truth there.

Yes.

And that's one of the reasons why the movie stuck out so much.

Infact one of the movie companies wanted them to change the ending and add a romance story, but Romero refused.

You know, you're really ok when you want to be

Erm ok?
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Romero was right. Making everything about race is dumb.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

CreekCo posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

CreekCo posted...

@UnfairRepresent That's a really poignant last sentence. A lot of truth there.

Yes.

And that's one of the reasons why the movie stuck out so much.

Infact one of the movie companies wanted them to change the ending and add a romance story, but Romero refused.

You know, you're really ok when you want to be

Erm ok?

He's complimenting you and he's right. You're cool to talk to when you're not intentionally trying to argue about everything.
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imo shit like racism is kind of integral to the zombie genre. it's supposed to be about a diverse group of people getting together over necessity, not shared values or ideals, so they bring their human problems like racism or sexism aboard, and that threatens the cohesion of the group. however i can totally understand a black actor in the 1960s not wanting to have to approach those kinds of issues in a movie given what black ppl at the time went through
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Trigg3rH4ppy posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

CreekCo posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

CreekCo posted...

@UnfairRepresent That's a really poignant last sentence. A lot of truth there.

Yes.

And that's one of the reasons why the movie stuck out so much.

Infact one of the movie companies wanted them to change the ending and add a romance story, but Romero refused.

You know, you're really ok when you want to be

Erm ok?

He's complimenting you and he's right. You're cool to talk to when you're not intentionally trying to argue about everything.

I don't try to argue

Romulox28 posted...

imo shit like racism is kind of integral to the zombie genre. it's supposed to be about a diverse group of people getting together over necessity, not shared values or ideals, so they bring their human problems like racism or sexism aboard, and that threatens the cohesion of the group. however i can totally understand a black actor in the 1960s not wanting to have to approach those kinds of issues in a movie given what black ppl at the time went through

Erm he wanted to approach those things
It was the white director who didn't
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it's so easy to vote for the second option in the poll given the current environment

but imma agree with jones cause context
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I loved that movie

Who gives a shit? This looks like madeup 'controversy' 745 to feed the sjw herd.
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CuteWhiteChick posted...

Who gives a shit? This looks like madeup 'controversy' 745 to feed the sjw herd.

The debate predates SWJs by about 40 years.
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When I first saw Night of the Living Dead, I never thought about the hero being black or that he was a man. He just presented himself as the capable person that you hope is on your side when truly bad things start to happen.
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Romero made the right call, even if it wasn't for the right reasons. Jones had good intentions, but they usually pave the way to Hell. Had the script changed, the movie probably would have been tossed in the gutters of history and seen as obscure for the in your fave message.

Romero's decision really forced Jones and the other actors to put more nuance in their performances and that is far more powerful than if say Cooper started slinging racial slurs.

Think about the scene when Ben tells Cooper "You're boss down there, I'm boss up here. So if you stay you take orders from ME! And that includes leaving the girl alone."

That scene is perfect because we all know the underlying tension, but if Cooper had popped off before or after with a slur, it wouldn't have near the impact.

It pays off later when they get the TV going and Cooper tells Barbara to pay attention, and claims he doesn't want blood on his hands, it really conveyed Cooper's frustration and vulnerability and the whole time you understand perfectly why without it being hammered in.

And for the segments of audiences that don't care about or understand the nuance it becomes a simple fun zombie romp that isn't in your face with a political or moral message (save the end). Which allows them to share it and keep it going to help further expose it to people who will get it.
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Damn, gross poll results, yall suck
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there is a reason barbara was basically a moving prop throughout the movie
she wasnt in the original script
when they came to the town to start filming they met her actress who IIRC was a waitress
they liked the way she looked and thought she would be perfect for the movie but all the parts had already been cast

so they wrote a character into the script for her. creating the iconic opening "they're coming to get you barbara"
and thats why in the opening she does everything right and is competent but after ben shows up she does nothing. its because they couldnt rewrite the plot around one character so they wrote her one scene and then hide the character in the corner with only a handful of references to her.

the other female characters were ok like the teenage girl who decided she wasnt going to stay and wait for the men to do everything and chose to go with them (which ended badly for her)
and of course the mother who was my favorite character in the movie.

the remake isnt really better. it does improve the character of barbara but it somehow made the gas truck scene death scene even dumber than it was in the original
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yusiko posted...

there is a reason barbara was basically a moving prop throughout the movie
she wasnt in the original script
when they came to the town to start filming they met her actress who IIRC was a waitress
they liked the way she looked and thought she would be perfect for the movie but all the parts had already been cast

so they wrote a character into the script for her. creating the iconic opening "they're coming to get you barbara"
and thats why in the opening she does everything right and is competent but after ben shows up she does nothing. its because they couldnt rewrite the plot around one character so they wrote her one scene and then hide the character in the corner with only a handful of references to her.

the other female characters were ok like the teenage girl who decided she wasnt going to stay and wait for the men to do everything and chose to go with them (which ended badly for her)
and of course the mother who was my favorite character in the movie.

the remake isnt really better. it does improve the character of barbara but it somehow made the gas truck scene death scene even dumber than it was in the original

The remake really takes a giant dump on the original...and also treats the audience poorly.
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I was watching The Treasure of the Sierra Madre the other day and I was really upset that the Banditos who expressed that they do not need any badges didn't then go into how if they were white banditos they wouldn't be asked for badges and that they were only asked because they were Mexicans who were being treated as criminals.

But really, movies tend to be better when they have a story they want to tell and tell that story. Not every movie needs to reflect every aspect of every life and represent broad groups. As directed the movie just showed a story and it worked.
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yusiko posted...

there is a reason barbara was basically a moving prop throughout the movie
she wasnt in the original script
when they came to the town to start filming they met her actress who IIRC was a waitress
they liked the way she looked and thought she would be perfect for the movie but all the parts had already been cast

so they wrote a character into the script for her. creating the iconic opening "they're coming to get you barbara"
and thats why in the opening she does everything right and is competent but after ben shows up she does nothing. its because they couldnt rewrite the plot around one character so they wrote her one scene and then hide the character in the corner with only a handful of references to her.

the other female characters were ok like the teenage girl who decided she wasnt going to stay and wait for the men to do everything and chose to go with them (which ended badly for her)
and of course the mother who was my favorite character in the movie.

the remake isnt really better. it does improve the character of barbara but it somehow made the gas truck scene death scene even dumber than it was in the original

I don't know where you've heard this but it's not true.

Barbra was always in the script. In fact the triva there is that in the original script Barbra survived the night

I think you might be right that they just hired her because she was a chick who was nearby but they didn't invent a lead role for the hell of it

On top of that, multiple people play multiple roles in the movie because it's so low budget. There's no way they would add a whole new main female lead with a new paid actress after they already started filming.
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ClunkerSlim posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Romero however being from the Bronx was not aware of racial tension

Um.... no.

Could be that because interacting with black people was normal for him in a non racist way...
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dont remember where i heard it but ive believed it for years and it was a good behind the scenes story so i liked the idea of it being true
looking up some information i can see why i believed it so long and its because parts of it were true

there was a character who was added into the script because of the actress's looks but it was judy not barbara
and barbara was rewritten because of the actress going from strong and charismatic to quite and catatonic because thats how the actress wanted to play her.

of course this might be wrong too since i just looked it up on tvtropes
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yusiko posted...

of course this might be wrong too since i just looked it up on tvtropes

You really think somebody would do that? Go on the internet and tell lies?
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teepan95 posted...

yusiko posted...

of course this might be wrong too since i just looked it up on tvtropes

You really think somebody would do that? Go on the internet and tell lies?

i dont want to believe it but all it takes is one bad apple to lie and since 99% of the internet is honest and truthful its hard to tell if the rare lie is true or not
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yusiko posted...

i can see why i believed it so long and its because parts of it were true

Don't be that guy,

Just admit you were wrong about something man
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UnfairRepresent posted...

yusiko posted...

i can see why i believed it so long and its because parts of it were true

Don't be that guy,

Just admit you were wrong about something man

I did and then I justified why I was wrong because if I didn't justify it the universe would. Implode

I may be wrong about that but I don't want to take the chance in case I'm right
I don't want to be responsible for the universe imploding
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you don't need to justify it man
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Man this is a one sided poll
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