Current Events > Why is shooting tear gas at migrants breaking a fence a bad thing?

(+) Yeah! (+)

fan357 posted...

awesome999 posted...

AmericaTheBrave posted...

I don't understand why America enforcing her borders is a bad thing.

This tbh

I'm anti trump as much as the next guy but tear gas is used on protesting citizens. Protesting isn't even illegal. Entering a country illegally is, especially when your not a citizen and have zero documentation or whatever

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King_Hellebuyck posted...

M_Live posted...

Doom_Art posted...

I don't particularly care about the tear gas in and of itself, but the sheer happiness and glee some people are getting from seeing these people gassed is what disturbs me.

Yeah I'm with Doom on this one.im pretty left leaning, but I'm not exactly supportive of thousands of undocumented people just storming into our country, but the people who are like, getting enjoyment out of harm coming to these people or wishing death on them are sick.

Exactly. People are excited to see asylum seeking children injured.

This is my point of view as well
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Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

I asked this in another thread as well, but what should the response be to those who desperately try to force their way into a country without going through the proper channels?

Arrested upon entry

Interesting. So we shouldn't prevent people from illegally entering the country, only arrest them after the fact?

Yes, doesnt matter if there are hundreds or thousands of them.

Let them in lol
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Thaddeus_J_Pibb posted...

Thaddeus_J_Pibb posted...

"Well they've got kids with em, better just give them whatever they want and let them do whatever feels right. Our hands are tied!"

If we cant think of a better option between letting asylum seekers in (which is completely legal btw) or tear gassing children, then we are in a bad place morally.
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Nobody wants to use tear gas, but why do liberals act like defending our border is such a bad thing?

Like seriously, why do why European countries and the USA have to have some open border policy where the whole third world is allowed to run in unchecked and if you disagree you must be an evil white supremacist nazi? Can't I just be a sane rational citizen that thinks we need a secure border because *GASP* not every tom dick and harry that wants to cross would be a good thing for us?

My only answer is demographics. Mexicans tend to vote democrat.

kayoticdreamz posted...

My only answer is demographics

Seems that way.

If kids at a proud boys or patriot rally got gassed, the pearl clutchers in this thread would either lol to themselves or blame the parents for putting the kids in danger.

Also, fuck these "parents" for putting their kids in danger. Great examples your showing.
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Smashingpmkns posted...

Thaddeus_J_Pibb posted...

Thaddeus_J_Pibb posted...

"Well they've got kids with em, better just give them whatever they want and let them do whatever feels right. Our hands are tied!"

If we cant think of a better option between letting asylum seekers in (which is completely legal btw) or tear gassing children, then we are in a bad place morally.

By all means Mr Ambassador, the floor is yours. Let's hear your ideas.

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

I asked this in another thread as well, but what should the response be to those who desperately try to force their way into a country without going through the proper channels?

Arrested upon entry

Interesting. So we shouldn't prevent people from illegally entering the country, only arrest them after the fact?

Is the alternative violating another countrys sovereignty by firing tear gas over their border?
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Because aggression against desperate people who are victims of imperialism and are actually a boon for your country is a bad thing.

Dash_Harber posted...

Because aggression against desperate people who are victims of imperialism and are actually a boon for your country is a bad thing.

A load of uneducated and illiterate adults that will take under the table employment are a boon


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Bloodychess posted...

kayoticdreamz posted...

My only answer is demographics

Seems that way.

If kids at a proud boys or patriot rally got gassed, the pearl clutchers in this thread would either lol to themselves or blame the parents for putting the kids in danger.

Also, fuck these "parents" for putting their kids in danger. Great examples your showing.

absolutely all of this.

Demography is destiny as they say. Democrats know damn well if they get enough non-whites(in this case the border hoppers which are Mexican and other central american countries) in Texas, they will flip that state blue forever and republicans will never get the presidency ever again. Democrats are playing the long game, and if anyone objects, you are a white supremacist nazi and that basically shuts down the entire debate because republicans are limp wristed as fuck.

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

I asked this in another thread as well, but what should the response be to those who desperately try to force their way into a country without going through the proper channels?

Arrested upon entry

Interesting. So we shouldn't prevent people from illegally entering the country, only arrest them after the fact?

Is the alternative violating another countrys sovereignty by firing tear gas over their border?

I shouldn't think that's the only alternative, but I also don't think it follows that therefore we should just allow everyone inside only to arrest them.

Dash_Harber posted...

Because aggression against desperate people who are victims of imperialism and are actually a boon for your country is a bad thing.

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country? And again, seeking asylum is legal. If you think the process for seeking asylum is the problem, then that's where the focus should be.

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

I asked this in another thread as well, but what should the response be to those who desperately try to force their way into a country without going through the proper channels?

Arrested upon entry

Interesting. So we shouldn't prevent people from illegally entering the country, only arrest them after the fact?

Is the alternative violating another countrys sovereignty by firing tear gas over their border?

I shouldn't think that's the only alternative, but I also don't think it follows that therefore we should just allow everyone inside only to arrest them.

But what alternatives are there that dont violate Mexicos sovereignty other than arresting people once theyre in the US?
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Dragonblade01 posted...

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country?

Yes, actually;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

Dash_Harber posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country?

Yes, actually;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

That's a lot to read, i'll look at it, but I very much doubt it. There are so many problems beyond just the economy with unchecked immigration at the border.

kayoticdreamz posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country?

Yes, actually;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

That's a lot to read, i'll look at it, but I very much doubt it. There are so many problems beyond just the economy with unchecked immigration at the border.

Well the article is talking about immigration both illegal and legal, but it doesn't really have much to do with how well the border is policed.

tbh im anti trump/ anti racist etc. but man, dont rush a border, dont damage shit, and the fact mexico/Tijuana offered 7000 jobs and they refused... it wasnt good enough for them. it HAD to be the USA they lived in. so.... fuck em.

Dash_Harber posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country?

Yes, actually;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

There's a difference between immigration and unchecked immigration. It's the latter that concerns me.

Dragonblade01 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country?

Yes, actually;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

There's a difference between immigration and unchecked immigration. It's the latter that concerns me.

Again, the article specifies both illegal and legal immigration.

Only blame goes toward the horrible mothers who forced there childern to run and try and cross illegally. They are lucky they didn't get shot at.
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Dash_Harber posted...

Well the article is talking about immigration both illegal and legal, but it doesn't really have much to do with how well the border is policed.

Then that is a huge problem. It is one thing to have illegals who get in anyway, and it is entirely another to have unchecked unpoliced bordered which is what it seems like some people are all for.

kayoticdreamz posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Well the article is talking about immigration both illegal and legal, but it doesn't really have much to do with how well the border is policed.

Then that is a huge problem. It is one thing to have illegals who get in anyway, and it is entirely another to have unchecked unpoliced bordered which is what it seems like some people are all for.

Okay, I think the problem here is that you assume there are two options; attack the migrants or let them in. There are other solutions. I never said I believed in a completely unchecked border, though, so that is a strawman at this point. I was simply saying that immigration, illegal or otherwise, is factually a boon to the economy.

Dash_Harber posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

Is it a given that unchecked immigration is a boon for a country?

Yes, actually;
http://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy

There's a difference between immigration and unchecked immigration. It's the latter that concerns me.

Again, the article specifies both illegal and legal immigration.

But specifying "both" doesn't help. What are the effects of these groups independently?

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

I asked this in another thread as well, but what should the response be to those who desperately try to force their way into a country without going through the proper channels?

Arrested upon entry

Interesting. So we shouldn't prevent people from illegally entering the country, only arrest them after the fact?

Is the alternative violating another countrys sovereignty by firing tear gas over their border?

I shouldn't think that's the only alternative, but I also don't think it follows that therefore we should just allow everyone inside only to arrest them.

But what alternatives are there that dont violate Mexicos sovereignty other than arresting people once theyre in the US?

I'm not sure, and it may involve cooperation with the bordering country. Regardless, we should strive for a system that doesn't require people to enter in order to prevent entrance.

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

I asked this in another thread as well, but what should the response be to those who desperately try to force their way into a country without going through the proper channels?

Arrested upon entry

Interesting. So we shouldn't prevent people from illegally entering the country, only arrest them after the fact?

Is the alternative violating another countrys sovereignty by firing tear gas over their border?

I shouldn't think that's the only alternative, but I also don't think it follows that therefore we should just allow everyone inside only to arrest them.

But what alternatives are there that dont violate Mexicos sovereignty other than arresting people once theyre in the US?

I'm not sure, and it may involve cooperation with the bordering country. Regardless, we should strive for a system that doesn't require people to enter in order to prevent entrance.

Isnt their crime entering illegally?
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King_Hellebuyck posted...

Isn't their crime entering illegally?

Sure, but you don't have to arrest someone in order to not allow them entry.

Dash_Harber posted...

kayoticdreamz posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Well the article is talking about immigration both illegal and legal, but it doesn't really have much to do with how well the border is policed.

Then that is a huge problem. It is one thing to have illegals who get in anyway, and it is entirely another to have unchecked unpoliced bordered which is what it seems like some people are all for.

Okay, I think the problem here is that you assume there are two options; attack the migrants or let them in. There are other solutions. I never said I believed in a completely unchecked border, though, so that is a strawman at this point. I was simply saying that immigration, illegal or otherwise, is factually a boon to the economy.

and I am saying completely unchecked immigration is the problem we have here, not just simple illegal immigration where people still sneak across but it's patrolled. Under that scenario you might only get 5 out of 100 people that sneak across. Under the other scenario 100 out of 100 people get across.

The effects of the later are vastly different, so that is why I pointed that difference out. And you make it sound like your link doesn't address that difference and just pivots to immigration illegal or legal is a boon.

for the record i'd be curious to hear what these other solutions are? because we do need a border and we do need to get a handle on who comes in, heck we need a full stop on all immigration just to deal with the overloaded amount of people that have come already and can't get processed because there simply aren't enough judges and time in the day to process this many people. Never mind the amount of wel fare these folks get from a country that is 21 trillion or so in debt.

and as said there are more factors that these people cause than simple economy.

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Isn't their crime entering illegally?

Sure, but you don't have to arrest someone in order to not allow them entry.

so what do you propose we do then? catch and release doesn't work, you say don't arrest them.....so tear gas? actual bullets? no border patrol at all?

kayoticdreamz posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

kayoticdreamz posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Well the article is talking about immigration both illegal and legal, but it doesn't really have much to do with how well the border is policed.

Then that is a huge problem. It is one thing to have illegals who get in anyway, and it is entirely another to have unchecked unpoliced bordered which is what it seems like some people are all for.

Okay, I think the problem here is that you assume there are two options; attack the migrants or let them in. There are other solutions. I never said I believed in a completely unchecked border, though, so that is a strawman at this point. I was simply saying that immigration, illegal or otherwise, is factually a boon to the economy.

and I am saying completely unchecked immigration is the problem we have here, not just simple illegal immigration where people still sneak across but it's patrolled. Under that scenario you might only get 5 out of 100 people that sneak across. Under the other scenario 100 out of 100 people get across.

The effects of the later are vastly different, so that is why I pointed that difference out. And you make it sound like your link doesn't address that difference and just pivots to immigration illegal or legal is a boon.

for the record i'd be curious to hear what these other solutions are? because we do need a border and we do need to get a handle on who comes in, heck we need a full stop on all immigration just to deal with the overloaded amount of people that have come already and can't get processed because there simply aren't enough judges and time in the day to process this many people. Never mind the amount of wel fare these folks get from a country that is 21 trillion or so in debt.

and as said there are more factors that these people cause than simple economy.

Again, you are arguing against something I never said. Also, more importantly, the vast majority of illegal immigrants get through and just don't leave when their visas expire. Strong border control does nothing for that.

Like I said, though, you just keep barking at me about border control even though I never once commented on that, so good luck with your agenda.

kayoticdreamz posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Isn't their crime entering illegally?

Sure, but you don't have to arrest someone in order to not allow them entry.

so what do you propose we do then? catch and release doesn't work, you say don't arrest them.....so tear gas? actual bullets? no border patrol at all?

If they get in, arrest them, obviously. I just think we should be allowed to take some degree of preventive measure as well.

We can't let everybody in that wants in.

If you give a dollar to everyone that asks, eventually it's YOU going around asking for a dollar.

YodaCrackers posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

IdiotMachine posted...

Noone's asking the real important question: Why are children there in the first place? Why are their parents putting them in literal front lines? What are they thinking when they use their children as a shield when they approach a fence with armed guards?

Children are there because their parents are trying to do whats best for future generations by bringing them to a better county that has historically been very welcoming to downtrodden immigrants. Ya know, the American dream?

Maybe dont be part of a mob rushing the border fence to illegally enter while pelting the armed guards with rocks. What the hell do you expect to happen? Just let them in? Turns out youre not going to get a warm welcome when you attack the country you want help from, even if you use your kid as a human shield. Theyre biting the hand that they feel entitled to be fed by.

in one article said people who were far from that got hit by the gas too ...probably because the wind carried it
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marc55 posted...

YodaCrackers posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

IdiotMachine posted...

Noone's asking the real important question: Why are children there in the first place? Why are their parents putting them in literal front lines? What are they thinking when they use their children as a shield when they approach a fence with armed guards?

Children are there because their parents are trying to do whats best for future generations by bringing them to a better county that has historically been very welcoming to downtrodden immigrants. Ya know, the American dream?

Maybe dont be part of a mob rushing the border fence to illegally enter while pelting the armed guards with rocks. What the hell do you expect to happen? Just let them in? Turns out youre not going to get a warm welcome when you attack the country you want help from, even if you use your kid as a human shield. Theyre biting the hand that they feel entitled to be fed by.

in one article said people who were far from that got hit by the gas too ...probably because the wind carried it

If they were far enough away the gas would have dissipated before it got to them.
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Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Isn't their crime entering illegally?

Sure, but you don't have to arrest someone in order to not allow them entry.

But shooting tear gas over the border violates Mexicos sovereignty and shouldnt be tolerated. If theyre not prevented from entering (which should be the first step) then they should be arrested upon entry.
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King_Hellebuyck posted...

Dragonblade01 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

Isn't their crime entering illegally?

Sure, but you don't have to arrest someone in order to not allow them entry.

But shooting tear gas over the border violates Mexicos sovereignty and shouldnt be tolerated. If theyre not prevented from entering (which should be the first step) then they should be arrested upon entry.

A factor that is rarely discussed is that arresting them costs money. Letting them all clog up our court system costs time and money.

We simply need to just stop them from getting here and not letting them overrun the system. Never mind the free handouts they get along the way. I think it takes an average of 40 days to process each person....it's absurd.

As for Mexicos sovereignty....to hell with them, they are doing jack shit to help out.

To hell with another countrys sovereignty is the most fucked up response, isnt this entire issue about sovereignty? If we dont give a fuck about their sovereignty then were in no place to bitch about migrants ignoring ours.

And yes, doing things the legal and ethical way takes time and money. Welcome to reality. You cant just ignore that because you dont like it, thats insane.
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King_Hellebuyck posted...

To hell with another countrys sovereignty is the most fucked up response, isnt this entire issue about sovereignty?

You know what else is fucked up? Kicking the can down to us and letting it be our problem. We're handling it now, Mexico can watch. If they have issue, by all means, do something for a change.
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In fairness to Mexico, it isn't like they did nothing. They offered the refugees opportunity in their country. But they wanted to go to America, so they refused.

This guy is probably going to get fired from MSNBC for telling the truth. The vast majority of the caravan are men. Everyone with a brain knew this, except for the leftists who lied through their teeth.

And guess what, some of them admitted that they're not here to seek asylum. They want to enter the country illegally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSIJfPnC1qs" data-time="
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

This guy is probably going to get fired from MSNBC for telling the truth. The vast majority of the caravan are men. Everyone with a brain knew this, except for the leftists who lied through their teeth.

And guess what, some of them admitted that they're not here to seek asylum. They want to enter the country illegally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSIJfPnC1qs" data-time="

Its okay, those men are doctors and engineers
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

This guy is probably going to get fired from MSNBC for telling the truth. The vast majority of the caravan are men. Everyone with a brain knew this, except for the leftists who lied through their teeth.

And guess what, some of them admitted that they're not here to seek asylum. They want to enter the country illegally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSIJfPnC1qs" data-time="

is possible that many think the trip is too dangerous for their families so they try on their own hoping to get a job and send money to them
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IdiotMachine posted...

Noone's asking the real important question: Why are children there in the first place? Why are their parents putting them in literal front lines? What are they thinking when they use their children as a shield when they approach a fence with armed guards?

it's ordinary for border agents to find corpses of families that were trying to cross the border (not that i'm expecting you racist neanderthals to really digest the information that that fact entails)
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anth0ny posted...

IdiotMachine posted...

Noone's asking the real important question: Why are children there in the first place? Why are their parents putting them in literal front lines? What are they thinking when they use their children as a shield when they approach a fence with armed guards?

it's ordinary for border agents to find corpses of families that were trying to cross the border (not that i'm expecting you racist neanderthals to really digest the information that that fact entails)

What does that have to do with them using children as shields?
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you would think no self respecting country would gas children of future workers
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RiderofHogs posted...

anth0ny posted...

IdiotMachine posted...

Noone's asking the real important question: Why are children there in the first place? Why are their parents putting them in literal front lines? What are they thinking when they use their children as a shield when they approach a fence with armed guards?

it's ordinary for border agents to find corpses of families that were trying to cross the border (not that i'm expecting you racist neanderthals to really digest the information that that fact entails)

What does that have to do with them using children as shields?

oh

wait so you think they should leave their childrens to die at their countries ?
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marc55 posted...

RiderofHogs posted...

anth0ny posted...

IdiotMachine posted...

Noone's asking the real important question: Why are children there in the first place? Why are their parents putting them in literal front lines? What are they thinking when they use their children as a shield when they approach a fence with armed guards?

it's ordinary for border agents to find corpses of families that were trying to cross the border (not that i'm expecting you racist neanderthals to really digest the information that that fact entails)

What does that have to do with them using children as shields?

oh

wait so you think they should leave their childrens to die at their countries ?

They should leave their kids in the back when they try to bumrush an international border and throw rocks at people.
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anth0ny posted...

you would think no self respecting parent would act violently in front of their children and put them in danger of tear gas

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Bloodychess posted...

anth0ny posted...

you would think no self respecting parent would act violently in front of their children and put them in danger of tear gas

shhhh....don't let these liberals hear facts

King_Hellebuyck posted...

To hell with another countrys sovereignty is the most fucked up response, isnt this entire issue about sovereignty? If we dont give a fuck about their sovereignty then were in no place to bitch about migrants ignoring ours.

And yes, doing things the legal and ethical way takes time and money. Welcome to reality. You cant just ignore that because you dont like it, thats insane.

yes if mexico is going to nothing about it then they don't get a right to say a damn thing about anything. It is a border, borders are known for being a grey area.

And I can absolutely as a tax payer bitch and moan about illegals bleeding my tax dollars dry by overrunning the court system with their nonsense when what is it something like 90% of them are not legit asylum seekers. To hell with ethical here, we are 21 trillion + in the hole, we do not have time nor money to deal with this. They are also not american citizens and have no constitutional right to any of this either. American law is not international law and international law and interests should never ever take priority over national law and interests.

It is quite simple, we need to deal with who is here first before we go allowing anymore people in. our borders are out of hand and we need to deal with it and to best way to deal with it is to deal with who is here first and shut down the border completely until then without exception.

Bloodychess posted...

Its okay, those men are doctors and engineers

LOL....based on your other posts i know you are being sarcastic. That being said, if only this were actually the case, but it isn't.

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

This guy is probably going to get fired from MSNBC for telling the truth. The vast majority of the caravan are men. Everyone with a brain knew this, except for the leftists who lied through their teeth.

And guess what, some of them admitted that they're not here to seek asylum. They want to enter the country illegally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSIJfPnC1qs" data-time="

#FactsAreRacist