Board 8 > Smash Ultimate Mafia ENDGAME

(+) Yeah! (+)

Unlockable kill but target can swi post for the rest of the game.

Or they get revealed as dying and get one more day to play as confirmed town before they die at end of day.

It's really easy to be creative with roles. Just gotta be aware of balance implications.
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Also ways to deal with power: role stripper where you turn them into a vanilla.
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I would just like to chime in to say that, in the absence of further context, I actually agree with Chris on the argument that Strongman shouldn't be an every game role. His perspective on it is obviously selfish and biased as hell, but in spite of that I think the "It's bad because it has no risk and requires no thought or interaction, so it shouldn't be in every goddamn game" argument is fundamentally sound

I didn't read a word of the game (or even know there was a game going on, all hail flair filters), but I saw this topic.

SK but instead of killing, they attach target bombs to people that they control.
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Shaduln posted...

I'm ready for a cult tbh

One of my Monster Mafias had a legit cult.
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Shaduln posted...

I'm ready for a cult tbh

One of my Monster Mafias had a legit cult.

Kirby mafia, Hyness as cult leader
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

SK but instead of killing, they attach target bombs to people that they control.

This is just asking for Jojo Mafia, isn't it?
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Reg posted...

I would just like to chime in to say that, in the absence of further context, I actually agree with Chris on the argument that Strongman shouldn't be an every game role. His perspective on it is obviously selfish and biased as hell, but in spite of that I think the "It's bad because it has no risk and requires no thought or interaction, so it shouldn't be in every goddamn game" argument is fundamentally sound

I didn't read a word of the game (or even know there was a game going on, all hail flair filters), but I saw this topic.

can still be tracked/watched/etc. To say there is no risk in a scum action is a lie.
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Tracker is extremely low odds (and the same as a normal kill) and Watcher is a sparsely used role. If Watcher was also in every game it might be different.
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I did 2 independents in Chrono Cross mafia.
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If the drunk thing could be real and night 2 they find out they are strongman/assassin or to make it more fun it can be just a vanilla or any other role
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Maybe watcher should be used more often.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Right so hello again, I think there are two important things to consider when I talk about strongman as a role.

First, I speak out of frustration because the role has become a kill Chris button. God that's not fun for me. And in fact in the last game scum didn't need their strongman, no protection saved me. It's just the fact that with strongman scum doesn't even have to hesitate, and that is also bad role design.

For example in my recent game (... I forget my own flavor... music?) I had a strongman that was a 100% sure kill if you knew the person's role along with your choice to kill them. So for example if day 1 I messed around and claimed, it activates. Or if they decided to use their scanner night 1 on a high powered target they get to murder them night 2. Or if they force a claim they could still in theory murder night 1. I love the elegance of this role because the kill is a reward for play. It rewards pressure or punishes lax play or it rewards scum's choice to use a power on a member of town and follow it up.

I think strongman is a needlessly lazy role. Scum already win a vast majority of the games in this community. There is push back because of the selfish nature of this idea from me but frankly it isn't a bad one just because I am being selfish. Asking for elegance in setup design is not a bad thing just because it benefits me. Also I am not even asking for a stacked deck, I would just like to be able to sometimes play the game longer or if scum wants to shoot me night 1 they at least have to take some risk in that play.

I know in my heart that is not asking for too much. As a host, as someone with a great eye for balance, I know I am both being selfish but also making a good point.

There are plenty of toys for scum, and there are many roles that can be invented.

Watcher.
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Asking for a watcher to be in every game instead of a strongman as it is now to not to be is silly and just antagonistic to my point tbh.
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I was dying you guys didn't instantly lynch people who after a doc counter claim were like yeah that's cool and all but let's lynch the claimed cop instead!
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Asking for a watcher to be in every game instead of a strongman as it is now to not to be is silly and just antagonistic to my point tbh.

I was just pointing out a properly balanced game could easily have one to counteract it. If the strongman shot is obvious, then why wouldn't the watch target be? Then it can get meta/risk involved.
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hmm
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corrik was scum this game

still berrating us lol
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ScareChan posted...

corrik was scum this game

still berrating us lol

?
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The watcher idea isn't great, tbh. It's still usually going to be worth killing Chris unless a very strong player has strongman. Would out the watcher, too. Assassin is probably a better option.
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Sheep007 posted...

Assassin is probably a better option.

Or...

And stay with me here, because this might blow your mind...

You could

Just not use the role, and instead give Scum a different toy to play with?

Just make it a vig
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Reg posted...

Sheep007 posted...

Assassin is probably a better option.

Or...

And stay with me here, because this might blow your mind...

You could

Just not use the role, and instead give Scum a different toy to play with?

I would generally agree since I'm not a fan of strongman in general, and I wouldn't run it in my own games.However, it's also clear that most people aren't for completely banning/not using a role when it isn't horribly gamebreaking.
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I feel like we just cycle through horribly overusing roles, then once we realize it, we stop using it for a while, and pick a different role to overuse in its place.
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Ready for every game to have a PGO?
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Paranoid role blocked best
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My game didn't have a strongman but scum still killed him night 1. And my game had a watcher, but it wasn't used on Chris. So I don't think this will fix Chris' problem like he thinks it would. Town is too afraid to look dumb to protect him unless he is mortally confirmed so he is very frequently left open.

It also absolutely does not need to be banned. It is overused for sure and has become a crutch, but it is silly to ban a role like that because there are plenty of ways to balance around it. I also don't like hosts in general going "this role won't be in my game".
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Nobody's actually calling for a hard ban of the role, right? Just a soft "don't use this role in every game" request masquerading as a hard ban so people will actually listen to it?

I could've misread, but I believe Chris was calling for a ban. Admittedly, I was briefly skimping through the end game discussion so you could definitely be right.
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Oh. If he was, he's silly.

His argument for significantly reducing its frequency is still solid IMO but still.

Chris was definitely calling for a ban.
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Reg posted...

Oh. If he was, he's silly.

His argument for significantly reducing its frequency is still solid IMO but still.

Yep, roles shouldn't hit the point we just expect them in every game.

Hosts shouldn't be saying roles won't be in their games and also a role shouldn't be banned because someone doesn't like it.
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Open set ups are a thing and wildly successful, and roles which have a set meta should be done away with.
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77293570

Signups for the next game are here, if anyone is looking.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Open set ups are a thing and wildly successful, and roles which have a set meta should be done away with.

Doctor is basically always best player unless power claims. Same as strongman.

Time to ban doctor.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Open set ups are a thing and wildly successful, and roles which have a set meta should be done away with.

I can absolutely get behind more open setups.

How to win at open setup: mass claim immediately. Doctor claims vanilla.

Setups are too predictable nowadays. Hosts just gotta be more creative.
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Setups are too predictable nowadays. Hosts just gotta be more creative.

I agree
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Looking forward to my Castlevania Mafia tbh
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HanOfTheNekos posted...

Setups are too predictable nowadays. Hosts just gotta be more creative.

Yes.

Every town setup has felt like doc, bg, roleblocker, cop, tracker or prosty.

did i win?
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I tried to be creative and you guys yelled at me for having two Godfathers
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Leafeon13N posted...

How to win at open setup: mass claim immediately. Doctor claims vanilla.

Nah because open setups are low power.

So in a game of 16 town has like 3 power.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

How to win at open setup: mass claim immediately. Doctor claims vanilla.

Nah because open setups are low power.

So in a game of 16 town has like 3 power.

Still works the same way.

Unless you remove all roles in which you would deem "intelligent choice" would matter.
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Nah I have a lot of experience with open- mass claim is a very bad idea. Scum tend to have good counters.
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And again, the only way to set it up is extremely limited power. Which limits setups pretty hard. Closed leaves you a lot more options which can make for some more interesting games.
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Can someone explain to me the difference between open and closed setups?
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Open Setup = The host makes the setup known to the entire game, either at the very start of the game or before the game starts

Closed = What you're probably used to.

There's also an in-between thing where the host posts a few different setups and says "the game is one of these"