Board 8 > ~BOXING MATCH!~ Little Mac vs. Kazuma Kiryu

(+) Yeah! (+)

Little Mac has challenged Kazuma Kiryu to a fight! Location of the fight: WVBA boxing ring - The standard ring for fights in the Punch-Out series.. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The fight will operate under Super Punch-Out rules, as seen here, minus the rematch rule: https://imgur.com/spx2dXr
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Little Mac is as seen in Punch Out!! for Wii and the Smash Bros series (minus game mechanics and Final Smashes). In the context of this fight, he can use his Star Uppercut technique as freely as he wants, so long as the opening presents itself.

~VS~

Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in Yakuza Kiwami, with access to all of his fighting styles seen throughout the entire Yakuza series, as well as all Heat Actions and Ultimate Heat Mode. He has a Zap Gun, New Flak Jacket, Red Bicycle and six doses of Staminan Royale, and will start the fight at maximum Heat.
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Does Kiryu have any boxing experience?
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tag
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Kiryu is a master if many battle art
But no one fucks with the king

mac
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Does Kiryu have any boxing experience?

He's been trained by multiple boxers and his fighting style incorporates tenets of it, so yes. Honestly this is like, a brutal match for Mac IMO because Kiryu is straight up insane in how skilly he is as a barehanded fighter. He also is not restrained to punches or anything of the sort because Super Punch Out rules are loose as fuck, too.
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Kiryu

Doesnt he beat down a tiger with his hands
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Yes, and also a dude who suplexes bears, and a lion, and...you get the picture.
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Little mac would box an arwing

Thank u, next
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You know, there's many times that Mac can win, but I don't think this is one.

Kiryu

Kiryu actually has boxing experience (which is a big thing), and a lot more world experience in general, and can potentially match Little Mac's speed, and has a large difference in power/durability.

Kiryu sounds like he has way more going for him than Mac here

but then most of his opponents in Punch Out are like that, and he still beats them

so I'm not sure
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Kiryu like, does a punch that stops a charging bull cold iirc.

Way more strength, durability, and speed, combined with actual boxing experience should be enough to put it away.
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He also has his own versions of the Star Punch (plural), too

Like so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q8LEy6fPoI" data-time="

(not the only one, but a good example of how brutal and quick he's on the punish if Mac fucks up even once.)
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Even if Mac could beat him, I feel like Kiryu could run out the clock giving Mac the auto loss.
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Should be noted that Kiryu is a lot more well rounded than most of Mac's opponents. Mac usually gets around guys who are stronger or faster than him by exploiting some weakness in their style or gameplan. You won't get that kinda thing out of Kiryu nearly as easily.
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I'm so confused by the punch out rule that says "there are no illegal moves or punches"
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He also has a lot of experience fighting a really wide variety of dudes with similar gimmicks to Mac's enemies too

Like, dude who clones himself? Yeah, that's Kiryu's archrival and he beats him every time. Dudes who punch down walls? Yeah multiple ones. Huge dudes you can't stun? Yep. You get the idea. He has very few weak points to exploit.
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banananor posted...

I'm so confused by the punch out rule that says "there are no illegal moves or punches"

hi, welcome to punch out where Dragon Chan kicks you in the jaw and Hoy Quarlow beats the shit out of you with a stick

shits wild like that and not at all like a real boxing match
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kiryu would win this match but I cant vote against mac even for funsies
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Kiryu. As much as I think Mac's feats are comparable (Don Flamenco flat-out Team Rockets a charging bull, Bald Bull no-sells a bull charge, Mr. Sandman destroying a building with his bare fists and Mac can still get hit by those), Mac's canonically lost at least three fights by the end of Punch-Out Wii, whilst Kiryu is a five time, five time, five time, FIVE TIME, FIVE TIME Millennium Tower Battle Champion (note: could be six time, in fact I assume it's six time but I haven't played Yakuza 6 to be sure). The sheer amount of ways and angles Kiryu can not only attack from, but react to just gives him such an insane ring awareness that Mac doesn't have an answer to other than "dodge his punch, then counter-punch".
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Kazuma Kiryu

I'm not gonna lie, this match was inspired by me playing the Yakuza games for the first time and having my head kinda blown by how badass Kiryu is in them. I felt like he should win but wanted to see what everyone else thought instead of voting early. Glad to see everyone else respects the Dragon of Dojima's fighting skills too!
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It's hard not to vote Kiryu even if Mac faced Donkey Kong - and won. He's agile enough to where Mac should hardly get close
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Kiryu, next
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Mac would win the fight. Kiryu couldn't stomach beating up such a young man with such a bright future ahead of him, but the fight would be suitably tough and Mac would realize the error of his ways during the fight through bonding with Kiryu with his fists.

But more seriously Kiryu would win.

KanzarisKelshen

He also is not restrained to punches or anything of the sort because Super Punch Out rules are loose as fuck, too.

"Huh, let me read up on that..."

"There are no illegal moves or punches"

"wut"

.............ok. So this isn't even boxing then. This is like Pre-Crisis UFC.

Kiryu
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As has been said, this is the Punchout where one of the boxers just straight up brings a staff to the ring and proceeds to beat you over the head with it, so yeah
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Also ruins a potential joke vote about Kiryu forgetting he can't kick Mac and getting DQed, since I guess here he can just dropkick Mac in the face and call it a day. Kiryu
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I think Kiryu could even fight Mac in a legit boxing match and still be victorious.

Same

Kiryu is like Mac if he had tons more power and insane durability on top of the preexistent reflexes, speed and skill. He could fight fair (in fact I sorta feel like he would - dude's pretty honorable) and still have enough tricks up his sleeve to eke it out.
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Real talk while more true to Punch Out I think at minimum weapons should be banned as this is kinda too rough for Mac as is. Forget guys like Kiryu who can Dragon Chan his ass but generic RPG sword guys can just use their sword using the Hoy Quarlow clause.
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Kiryu wins, but I agree that the rules are too far slanted against Mac for him to win most of these now.
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I was gonna pick Mac, but considering how loose Punch-Out boxing rules are, I'm giving it to Kiryu.
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Kiryu but under these new rules I struggle to think of anyone mac WOULD actually beat.
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So you guys think the rules should be more like 'unarmed attacks and magic are go but weapons are verboten'? Cause I can agree with that so long as we don't go back to the absolutely asinine situation where everyone who isn't Balrog or a High Tier mercenary loses for free to Mac in the ring. Home field advantage is one thing, but autowinning against most of the mercs cast is an entirely different matter.
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Also, considering how this match went, this seems relevant:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/vonkaisermp40_2026.png
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

So you guys think the rules should be more like 'unarmed attacks and magic are go but weapons are verboten'? Cause I can agree with that so long as we don't go back to the absolutely asinine situation where everyone who isn't Balrog or a High Tier mercenary loses for free to Mac in the ring. Home field advantage is one thing, but autowinning against most of the mercs cast is an entirely different matter.

Well you have to understand this is Macs ONLY value.

In actual matches he contributes NOTHING he is basically just a free kill of anyone 4 or lower with only a few exceptions once every 5 weeks which works well

The anomalous Tifa win aside that's pretty much what macs level was shown to be.

If you want that to be "a free kill of some but not all 2 and some 3s" instead that's fine but I think it will result in mac not getting bought.
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Take their weapons unless they're like Vega or Billy Kane where it's in flavor. (Which is better solved by giving those types passives than changing Mac's ability)
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Maybe unarmed strikes only.

Magic is a bridge too far.

Mac should reliably beat people like Terra or Celes I feel.
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Remember cds are going the way of the dodo though

When you can spam it every week title bout goes from being pretty good to absurdly busted, as it was in m4. I'm fine with trimming some power off it in exchange, so long as the ability is worth using still (change it to a Pool of 5 random effect maybe? Possibly shrinkable to Pool of 3 on upgrade?)
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(also yeah, 'should offensive magic be allowed' is something that's open to discussion too. Buffs/debuffs should totally be good because they're entirely in theme for Punch Out but I can see merit in letting Mac bully mages who are crappy cqc fighters.)
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That said it SHOULD still be a Boxing Match.

Not an MMA fight.

Like "Unarmed STRIKES only, buff debuff magic ok" would be my preferred ruleset.
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Eddv posted...

Well you have to understand this is Macs ONLY value.

In actual matches he contributes NOTHING he is basically just a free kill of anyone 4 or lower with only a few exceptions once every 5 weeks which works well

I agree with this. If all unarmed combat is allowed then Mac just loses for free against everyone who isn't Crash or a trash gunner and he has no value as a merc.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

So you guys think the rules should be more like 'unarmed attacks and magic are go but weapons are verboten'? Cause I can agree with that so long as we don't go back to the absolutely asinine situation where everyone who isn't Balrog or a High Tier mercenary loses for free to Mac in the ring. Home field advantage is one thing, but autowinning against most of the mercs cast is an entirely different matter.

I think part of it was sell job, because I do not believe draft mercs Macs went nearly as successful as Mercs 4 Mac

and even then I think he lost when he was rebought?
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Drakeryn posted...

Eddv posted...

Well you have to understand this is Macs ONLY value.

In actual matches he contributes NOTHING he is basically just a free kill of anyone 4 or lower with only a few exceptions once every 5 weeks which works well

I agree with this. If all unarmed combat is allowed then Mac just loses for free against everyone who isn't Crash or a trash gunner and he has no value as a merc.

idk about that, if offensive magic is banned mac would still murder kuja for example

(and also a bunch of weapon-based melees. Like Lloyd Irving limited to unarmed attacks vs Mac, who ya got? I might take Mac there)
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I'd take Lloyd easy - agile, powerful, and just absurdly outstats Mac.

(admittedly I'm at the low end of Mac respect generally)
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ScareChan posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

So you guys think the rules should be more like 'unarmed attacks and magic are go but weapons are verboten'? Cause I can agree with that so long as we don't go back to the absolutely asinine situation where everyone who isn't Balrog or a High Tier mercenary loses for free to Mac in the ring. Home field advantage is one thing, but autowinning against most of the mercs cast is an entirely different matter.

I think part of it was sell job, because I do not believe draft mercs Macs went nearly as successful as Mercs 4 Mac

and even then I think he lost when he was rebought?

I can't speak for the other pool, but Mac was 1/1 with me.
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I heard Lloyd can solo teams without his weapons by using BEAST
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yeah rules need to be tweaked so Mac has a better chance in most matches. Not auto but every match should be debatable
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Finding some other way to somehow nerf the ability could make sense, but basically ruining it by doing stuff like including weapons or offensive magic is dumb since it makes Mac completely devoid of value.
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I think allowing all unarmed attacks is pretty much a necessity (otherwise people get really, really anal about 'DOES THIS GUY HAVE SPECIFICALLY BOXING FEATS OR I VOTE MAC' which is just, so dumb), but we can probably ban magic and weapons. I'm pretty certain that people without good martial arts feats won't be able to beat Mac even if they're otherwise superhuman, so that seems like a decent compromise that keeps the ability valuable without it just being an autowin.
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No magic, no weapons or armor, and only strikes (including but not necessarily limited to punches) imo.
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