Board 8 > Umineko playthrough topic 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

Raka_Putra posted...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Now I don't buy the mistress theory at all but imagine a life where you are stuck in a hidden mansion seeing no one but Kinzo.

A good enough reason to become murderous?

Yeah that would definitely happen given that it's Kinzo. I'm not very sure what you're implying here though.

Ah, I think I get what you mean. After all, Kinzo did something to Beatrice ('mistress') that trapped her on Rokkenjima ('hidden mansion'), so there is some truth to it. Still, I'm sure Beatrice is already murderous before that, and Kinzo already knows what she would do when the time comes.

As always, I like watching the inheritance discussion. But it's all meaningless once the killing starts.

I think there is still more to know about Natsuhi, getting so worked up over the family even if she was not born an Ushiromiya.

Let's say for a moment that the Headship/gold trade is true, why would Beatrice give up 10 tons of gold for some flimsy title of Ushiromiya head along with all its debts?

Kyrie thinks that Beatrice had already won the 'game' as she knows where's the gold is. Yet because of arrogance, she challenged the others to the 'game' to find the gold anyway.
This is another one of those interesting parallels. Something of the sort is definitely happening between Beatrice and Battler, with the 'game' about Battler's fate instead of the inheritance. She is the type to gloat and take her time before the finishing blow.

It's as if Kyrie had known Beatrice all along, crazy how perceptive she is from a letter alone.
Boy, I can't wait for her to die first. Again.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

They all suspect the existence of a mistress called Beatrice, but I don't remember them mentioning it even once in Ep 1 and 2, not even when Beatrice appeared in person.

When they went to Kinzo's study in EP1, Natsuhi and Genji talked about this in some detail.
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Really liking the Ronove guy and the banter between him and Battler. Lots of sarcasm in their conversation without being too one-sided. They both take the piss out of Beatrice so at least Battler can have a bit of fun now. But then Ronove is a demon, so who knows what his intentions are

Sceptilesolar posted...

handsomeboy2012 posted...

They all suspect the existence of a mistress called Beatrice, but I don't remember them mentioning it even once in Ep 1 and 2, not even when Beatrice appeared in person.

When they went to Kinzo's study in EP1, Natsuhi and Genji talked about this in some detail.

I assumed that it was something only Genji knew, and the others don't really believe it.

I can see that. Natsuhi spent most of that conversation with her fingers in her ears anyway.
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Why do Ronove and the Ass Nee-chans have the one-winged eagle on their clothes? Their only connection to the Ushiromiya family is via Beatrice.

On the topic of clothes, why does Kyrie have a bunch of diamond-shaped holes on the side of her shirt... thing?
Why does Eva hold a fan and never opens it?

I will never understand the fashion sense of posh, rich Japanese families.

Battler's idealism is stupid, someone he knows has to be the killer in the first game at least.
Strangely, the 3rd game set up such that Beatrice is a mysterious mistress which lets Battler use the 19th person argument. No way it's going to be this easy, there will be a catch.

Or Beatrice isn't the one who set this up. It's another of these unknown rules of the Umineko universe.

Can't Beatrice say 'There is no 19th person' in red and be done with it

Logic is not one of my strong points. 'Hempel's Raven' is giving me a headache.

Ok, I think I get it. If Beatrice can prove that it is impossible for an outsider to commit the crime, then Battler is toast.

Battler is seriously getting good at forcing Beatrice to say something in red (or refuse) to his advantage. Now, we know for certain that there are more than 18 people on the island. But this does not confirm that the extra person/people is the culprit.
The plot has thickened. Just who else is on Rokkenjima?

And no, I don't think there's any possibility of a mistress Beatrice.

Is it that necessary to clear up the exact number of people on the island for Hempel's Raven to work? I think you can use other sorts of evidence to rule out external culprits. Maybe this kind of reasoning is not suitable for such brute-force arguments,

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Battler is seriously getting good at forcing Beatrice to say something in red (or refuse) to his advantage. Now, we know for certain that there are more than 18 people on the island. But this does not confirm that the extra person/people is the culprit.
The plot has thickened. Just who else is on Rokkenjima?

I might be jumping the gun a bit here, because its wrong to assume Refusal to say Red Words = False. There's a possibility of unknown human characters though.

The debates in purgatory are the best parts of the game. Great to see Beatrice getting embarrassed once again.

Ronove is fantastic
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Characters going at each other with their wits always gets me pumped. Arguments and counterarguments and turning the opponent's strategy against them, stuff like that.

It's better than Beatrice beating down on Battler every time.
Ronove is an observer for now, he should have some bigger role the story soon.

Rosa now says she killed the mistress Beatrice which is completely different from her reactions to the 'human' Beatrice in ep2

Is this another dream of Beatrice? Old Kinzo shouldn't be anywhere near where Beatrice lived as a human kid.
It's so weird hearing Beatrice speaking in a different tone.

What, she's actually showing all of this to Battler.

Who cares if we're sworn enemies, let me tell you my life story!

The hidden mansion actually exists? What's with the opening scene in this episode then, did Beatrice get her memories wiped, turned into a kid, and had to learn magic all over again?

wait, are you saying that something in Umineko doesn't make sense?????!

Or am I to believe that Kinzo built the mansion and garden exactly the same as Beatrice's childhood

Dels posted...

wait, are you saying that something in Umineko doesn't make sense?????!

Did I say something like that? I was just trying to guess what happened between Kinzo and Beatrice...

Kinzo is the worst kind of stalker. In real life, he would lock up a woman in a hidden room, and if she commits suicide, he would freeze the body and put it on display or something.

Haha Beatrice throwing a tantrum

Ronove is supposedly serving Beatrice but doesn't give a fuck about her orders. I like him.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

Kinzo is the worst kind of stalker. In real life, he would lock up a woman in a hidden room, and if she commits suicide, he would freeze the body and put it on display or something.

Or after she died, Kinzo would find a girl to raise and replace her.
EDIT: Battler thinks exactly the same moments after I post this. I feel this has happened too many times already.

handsomeboy2012 posted...

The hidden mansion actually exists? What's with the opening scene in this episode then, did Beatrice get her memories wiped, turned into a kid, and had to learn magic all over again?

This was only a random stab in the dark but wow, this actually happened. According to Ronove, at least.

In 1967, in a hidden mansion on Rokkenjima, Beatrice existed as a human. Putting this here because it looks very important.

Looks like it's the end of this very informative flashback. I still don't know a lot of other details yet. What's with Beatrice's Teacher? How did she finally escape and regain her memories and powers?

In hindsight, I should have noticed something odd about the mansion in the opening scene. Beatrice claims to have lived 1000 years, that kind of architecture shouldnt exist around the year 986.

While Human Beatrice existed in 1967, nothing was said about her status in 1986. Its also strange to see Battler trying reason out a human Beatrice in the present while witch Beatrice is right there, but thats something he has to do to deny witches.

Minus the killing and torture, Battler is getting on very well with the magical beings...

Kinzo makes a contract with Beatrice, later he traps her in a mansion, and when she becomes a soul he traps her in a human body. At some point she escaped and got everything back, I think, so Kinzo started the ceremony to see her again.

Couple of things dont add up for this sequence. First, an amnesiac Beatrice would not be able to fulfil her contract with Kinzo when the time comes. Second, Kinzo prepared for the ceremony a long time ago like in the 1940s by building the chapel, hanging the portrait, and displaying the epitaph, before or during the time Beatrice was trapped.

So Kinzo needs to have anticipated Beatrice getting away anyway and prepared for the ceremony beforehand, or he was trying to meet the terms of the contract before changing his mind and improsoning Beatrice, but decided to continue preparations anyway.

It also implies that the contract and trapping Beatrice are independent incidents, but I dont think this is the case. There must be more to this story that was purposely withheld from Battler.

Forgot to mention how creepy it is for Kinzo to raise a girl with the purpose of fucking her. Beatrice with amnesia thought him more as a father/friend.

Creepy? Don't you mean devoted? Don't you mean "Actually, if you think about it... it's sort of sweet that Kinzo had someone he cared about so much..."? Don't you mean "It's actually noble how he dedicated his life to his lost love..."???????????

Krauss and Eva are still bullying Rosa at 40+ years old. Manchildren.

I mean, she deserves it tbqh
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For some reason Rosa didn't bring this up in ep 1 and 2 if she did see the witch in person

This is actually making me sympathize with Beatrice??? And Kinzo looks worse by the day.