Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 15: Caught Red Handed

(+) Yeah! (+)

How does it not make sense?

Scum sees most of scum are obvious now
Scum needs to force mislynches to win at this point
Scum has an idea to try and force 2 mislynches for their life

It's not complicated. I would argue it's a longshot play but as town it's a longshot play too. You keep saying it's "good" town play to be arrogant and try to force your lynch. I think it's terrible town play and less terrible scum play, but either way you shouldn't always assume your target is good at mafia as a defense either.
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pezloco posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Who convinced people that cam is a miller? He could just be scum who got ahead of his flavor and claimed it because he is scum who would scan guilty and because he knew a flavor scanner would out him regardless.

Gonna reread the game for his posts.

Puns or HB mentioned it first. I thought it sounded good because I already read Cam as a town. The way he claimed felt more like town thinking they had a gotcha than scum getting ahead of a flavor scan.

Yeah, but now we know you are scum.
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Lopen posted...

How does it not make sense?

Scum sees most of scum are obvious now
Scum needs to force mislynches to win at this point
Scum has an idea to try and force 2 mislynches for their life

It's not complicated. I would argue it's a longshot play but as town it's a longshot play too. You keep saying it's "good" town play to be arrogant and try to force your lynch. I think it's terrible town play and less terrible scum play, but either way you shouldn't always assume your target is good at mafia as a defense either.

Massclaim will reveal if power role imbalance exists.

Guilties claim first.

Hence, Pez is next.
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Cam needs to claim after pez.
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Corrik7 posted...

Lopen posted...

How does it not make sense?

Scum sees most of scum are obvious now
Scum needs to force mislynches to win at this point
Scum has an idea to try and force 2 mislynches for their life

It's not complicated. I would argue it's a longshot play but as town it's a longshot play too. You keep saying it's "good" town play to be arrogant and try to force your lynch. I think it's terrible town play and less terrible scum play, but either way you shouldn't always assume your target is good at mafia as a defense either.

Massclaim will reveal if power role imbalance exists.

Guilties claim first.

Hence, Pez is next.

I already claimed. See last post on previous page.
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@Camarija

Actual claim now.

After that, rest claim.
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Corrik7 posted...

Cam needs to claim after pez.

I thought Cam claimed Villager sometime after the Day went up in the mess of Ben dragging out the day.
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pezloco posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Cam needs to claim after pez.

I thought Cam claimed Villager sometime after the Day went up in the mess of Ben dragging out the day.

He keeps bullshitting and playing games. Needs a confirmed claim.
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Cam has fakeclaimed so many times I'd like a real real claim.
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I thought Pez was hinting some kind of power role that gave him info about other power roles. A vanilla claim is kind of a let down here.

I don't think Ben has enough cred to claim insane. I think he'd probably just be lynched after a guilty scan flips town. Scum might do it for 2 mislynches, but realistically it would only ever be one at best. It's possible scum just shoots him and confirms all his scans if he don't lynch a guilty scan or Ben today. I have no idea how a doomed bodyguard would interact with getting shot again. Corrik's role really doesn't make any sense, so I don't really buy it. I mean..... its Corrik. But if even if he's faking, real protection exists and 5tar/Ben could have more unhindered scans for more nights yet

##Unvote

@Corrik7 while we wait for claims to come in. Humor me for a moment?

Assume I'm right and there's some form of another night protection bringing it up to 3 night protections and the mayor who functions like a daytime doc save. Does that sound like a game with 2 scanners? Or with 2 scanners that are effectively sane cop?
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Lea3Lea posted...

I thought Pez was hinting some kind of power role that gave him info about other power roles. A vanilla claim is kind of a let down here.

I don't think Ben has enough cred to claim insane. I think he'd probably just be lynched after a guilty scan flips town. Scum might do it for 2 mislynches, but realistically it would only ever be one at best. It's possible scum just shoots him and confirms all his scans if he don't lynch a guilty scan or Ben today. I have no idea how a doomed bodyguard would interact with getting shot again. Corrik's role really doesn't make any sense, so I don't really buy it. I mean..... its Corrik. But if even if he's faking, real protection exists and 5tar/Ben could have more unhindered scans for more nights yet

Exactly why I said he's lying town.
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To me that just sounds like too much protection but it is looking more like you're right
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##Vote: Puns

Just because you think a player made a move that is -EV for scum should never make them town. It's that's much worse for town. Town is ahead currently.
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What I mean about town being ahead is like, which team do you think should be more likely to make risky moves here? It should obviously be scum.
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Lopen posted...

Just because you think a player made a move that is -EV for scum should never make them town. It's that's much worse for town. Town is ahead currently.

I don't think it's likely they get 2 mislynches out of this mess. There was a nice long list of people on the MZero to go after. You can much more easily get mislynches on that list than with a big fake scan gambit.
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pezloco posted...

3 night protections

Btw I think even if there is another protection out there it's still just 2

Because lolo is scum, but that much should resolve itself tomorrow morning when Lolo isn't dead. The game basically solves itself at that point if we mass claim.
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pezloco posted...

I don't think it's likely they get 2 mislynches out of this mess

I don't either. I think he thought they could

Bad scum play != town play
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Lopen posted...

pezloco posted...

3 night protections

Btw I think even if there is another protection out there it's still just 2

Because lolo is scum, but that much should resolve itself tomorrow morning when Lolo isn't dead. The game basically solves itself at that point if we mass claim.

Lolo being scum is definitely possible. I don't think it's probable though.

1) I don't think the other protection stopped the kill last night.

2) If Corrik is scum and Lolo is scum, town is underpowered not over powered and my read on Ben is very wrong.

3) If Lolo is scum and Corrik is not scum, then what exactly was the motivation to NK?
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pezloco posted...

3) If Lolo is scum and Corrik is not scum, then what exactly was the motivation to NK?

Scum used their kill to recruit traitor Cam, that's why there was no kill
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pezloco posted...

@Corrik7 while we wait for claims to come in. Humor me for a moment?

Assume I'm right and there's some form of another night protection bringing it up to 3 night protections and the mayor who functions like a daytime doc save. Does that sound like a game with 2 scanners? Or with 2 scanners that are effectively sane cop?

2 or 3 scanners could be correct. Depends on what types. Mayor isn't a doc save. It is a take control of the Lynch. The fact it was town with kingmaker which is another one is frankly a bit insane.
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pezloco posted...

3) If Lolo is scum and Corrik is not scum, then what exactly was the motivation to NK?

If lolo is scum and corrik is not scum then we probably have a *AHEM* bulletproof

If Lolo is scum but Corrik isnt then I dont know why there was no kill last night.
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Lopen posted...

pezloco posted...

I don't think it's likely they get 2 mislynches out of this mess

I don't either. I think he thought they could

Bad scum play != town play

Yeah I get that. You could be right. I just don't see passing up super low hanging fruit like trying to get town to unravel what appears to be a town/town lynch situation with a gambit like this as scum.
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Corrik7 posted...

I noticed Ben floated SK in last topic. Absolutely zero reason to do that.

Are you people playing the same game. Look at the kills each day. There is no SK. There was no kill last night ffs.

I more mentioned that because it was a thought I had night 1 when I got my result back. It's outdated by today's standards, you are right
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htaeD posted...

If Lolo is scum but Corrik isnt then I dont know why there was no kill last night.

The only way Lolo is scum is if scum purposely no killed. And intend to shoot Lolo tomorrow night and no kill again.

It is a pretty dumb idea.
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turbopuns3 posted...

pezloco posted...

3) If Lolo is scum and Corrik is not scum, then what exactly was the motivation to NK?

If lolo is scum and corrik is not scum then we probably have a *AHEM* bulletproof

Point 1 said I don't think the other protection stopped the kill last night. I considered BP.
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pezloco posted...

what appears to be a town/town lynch

So you agree if Lolo is scum this becomes more likely to be a scum gambit then?
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pezloco posted...

Point 1 said I don't think the other protection stopped the kill last night. I considered BP.

Well that seems pretty baseless unless you know something we don't

Puns, claim.

Lopen, claim.
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Corrik7 posted...

pezloco posted...

@Corrik7 while we wait for claims to come in. Humor me for a moment?

Assume I'm right and there's some form of another night protection bringing it up to 3 night protections and the mayor who functions like a daytime doc save. Does that sound like a game with 2 scanners? Or with 2 scanners that are effectively sane cop?

2 or 3 scanners could be correct. Depends on what types. Mayor isn't a doc save. It is a take control of the Lynch. The fact it was town with kingmaker which is another one is frankly a bit insane.

Mayor is weaker than a doc save, but if used correctly it functions like one because it prevents a death and therefore extends the game. But it doesn't confirm the not dead player as town like a doc save might. Which, fits a game that you have to rely on reads and not power.
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Corrik7 posted...

The only way Lolo is scum is if scum purposely no killed. And intend to shoot Lolo tomorrow night and no kill again.

... what? Why is scum no killing and shooting their scummate tomorrow a better theory than scum using their kill to recruit Cam here?
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turbopuns3 posted...

pezloco posted...

Point 1 said I don't think the other protection stopped the kill last night. I considered BP.

Well that seems pretty baseless unless you know something we don't

I have a post ready to go same time with the player I'm thinking of. I've explained my reasoning as well as I can in it. Just waiting for that person's time to claim since it appears to be a mass claim today.
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pezloco posted...

Corrik7 posted...

pezloco posted...

@Corrik7 while we wait for claims to come in. Humor me for a moment?

Assume I'm right and there's some form of another night protection bringing it up to 3 night protections and the mayor who functions like a daytime doc save. Does that sound like a game with 2 scanners? Or with 2 scanners that are effectively sane cop?

2 or 3 scanners could be correct. Depends on what types. Mayor isn't a doc save. It is a take control of the Lynch. The fact it was town with kingmaker which is another one is frankly a bit insane.

Mayor is weaker than a doc save, but if used correctly it functions like one because it prevents a death and therefore extends the game. But it doesn't confirm the not dead player as town like a doc save might. Which, fits a game that you have to rely on reads and not power.

It is not protection. It is a take control of the Lynch power. In fact, 2 of our mislynchs could have come at the hand of town powers that took the Lynch out of our own hands.
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I'll claim. I see no real reason to hold mine back

I'm a triceratops from Jurassic Park

My thick hide makes me town bulletproof

No actually I'm just a villager. It's the coolest villager ever though. Like ever.
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Lopen posted...

Corrik7 posted...

The only way Lolo is scum is if scum purposely no killed. And intend to shoot Lolo tomorrow night and no kill again.

... what? Why is scum no killing and shooting their scummate tomorrow a better theory than scum using their kill to recruit Cam here?

I don't know why you keep saying Cam has to be recruited. Not how lone wolf works.
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Corrik7 posted...

I don't know why you keep saying Cam has to be recruited. Not how lone wolf works.

Mafia site description for traitor disagrees with you and says it can work that way
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Lopen posted...

Corrik7 posted...

The only way Lolo is scum is if scum purposely no killed. And intend to shoot Lolo tomorrow night and no kill again.

... what? Why is scum no killing and shooting their scummate tomorrow a better theory than scum using their kill to recruit Cam here?

That's how stupid the theory is. Lolo is dead if he doesn't die tonight.

The scum gambit has no end game to no kill there.
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Lopen posted...

Corrik7 posted...

I don't know why you keep saying Cam has to be recruited. Not how lone wolf works.

Mafia site description for traitor disagrees with you and says it can work that way

It's not a traitor. It's a lone wolf. A role I ha e literally played before.
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Or it's traitor. A role that exists.
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He is just an uninformed mafia player. He doesn't know his team. He cannot communicate with his team. His team doesn't know he is scum also. Can't communicate with him. Usually a provision that stops friendly fire. He could be BP or be able to misdirect scum shots from him to someone else.

That's it
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Lopen posted...

Or it's traitor. A role that exists.

Lopen, you are either awful or scum. Every last power claim has been scum to you. Your theories are so asinine that Camarija is starting to make more sense than you at this point.
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Puns is next?
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Why is your theory that he's lone wolf okay, but when there is a role similar to lone wolf that would also explain a non kill last night that exists, that suddenly is off the table
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both of them are kinda a stretch if you ask me!
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Also I'm 1 for 1 calling power claims bs so let's not get ahead of ourselves

Soon to be 3 for 3 btw
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but I still find it kinda odd that Lopen is super fixated on that being the best explanation for a no kill
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If you assume Lolo is scum it's either that or scum shot a bulletproof or another protection worked.

Corrik wants an inflated sense of worth so naturally he thinks his role did it, I get it
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