Current Events > I got rejected for an engineering position due to "cultural fit"

(+) Yeah! (+)

An engineering position I was 110% qualified for. Cultural fit is usually considered secondary to technical skills lmao

For what it's worth after the interview I had to complete a 164 question personality assessment that had questions like "would you say you are more willing to directly tackle problems methodically or come up with a creative approach?" And the HR lady was acting like the test was some sort of amazing insight into personality. When she asked me what I thought of the test I was like "well, it was in depth but when the applicant knows they're being examined in an interview context they may voluntarily/involuntarily skew their answers." I don't think she appreciated the answer.

She might as well have asked me what my astrological sign is.

I hate those assessments. I have good problem solving skills, I don't handle every situation the exact same fucking way every time
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why the fuck is an engineering firm using one of those shitty retail personality tests

Personality quizzes for STEM?

CE is doomed
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I bet TC is a Libra smh
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treewojima posted...

why the fuck is an engineering firm using one of those shitty retail personality tests

Because it was a shitty little company with an HR lady that is desperately trying to prove her worth.

Nall posted...

You shouldve lied and said you thought the test was great. We all know its a load of bologna, but its just the game we all have to play.

I am willing to do the fake nice bullshit up to a certain point. That test crossed the threshold

Every position now needs you to have a flawless personality, or at least successfully fake it. 'Company culture' is also a big thing

You dont want to work for a company that places such high importance on something as trite as a personality test lmao.
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clearaflagrantj posted...

Cultural fit is usually considered secondary to technical skills lmao

I mean, your test sounds bullshit but "cultural fit" usually means "you came across like an asshole".

at least, that's what I've used it for when interviewing
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The most important question interviewers are trying to answer is "would i want to work next to this guy for 40+ hours per week for the next few years?"

Sounds like they thought you came off as a dbag
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You're supposed to lie and say it's awesome, but it sounds like you didn't want the job anyway.
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whats cultural fit

i know is possible to not get a job because a test shows you arent good at or value working with others / teamwork
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marc55 posted...

whats cultural fit

It's code for "we don't like you"

Sounds like a shitty place to work with a bunch of fuckinyards for HR. You probably dodged a bullet.
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Ya gotta play the game.

Clear, is there any way you can become self employed?

I honestly think it would be the best for your mental health.
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Of all the people to give an honest assessment to, HR is by far the worst. They don't understand engineering, so what you saw as an honest, constructive piece of feedback, she probably saw as either adversarial or condescending.
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s0nicfan posted...

Of all the people to give an honest assessment to, HR is by far the worst. They don't understand engineering, so what you saw as an honest, constructive piece of feedback, she probably saw as either adversarial or condescending.

Exactly.

I view truth as a fucking ideal, maybe the highest ideal. When someone is direct with me, even if it's negative towards me, I respect it. I try to have tact of course, I don't want to be an asshole for the sake of it, but I feel like we all have an obligation to each other to be honest in all matters.

clearaflagrantj posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Of all the people to give an honest assessment to, HR is by far the worst. They don't understand engineering, so what you saw as an honest, constructive piece of feedback, she probably saw as either adversarial or condescending.

Exactly.

I view truth as a fucking ideal, maybe the highest ideal. When someone is direct with me, even if it's negative towards me, I respect it. I try to have tact of course, I don't want to be an asshole for the sake of it, but I feel like we all have an obligation to each other to be honest in all matters.

HR has an obligation to the company above all else. That's literally why they get paid. They aren't a resource for humans, they use humans as resources. Your first mistake was treating the HR rep as someone on your side and not an adversary you need to overcome.
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Neoconkers posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

Cultural fit is usually considered secondary to technical skills lmao

I mean, your test sounds bullshit but "cultural fit" usually means "you came across like an asshole".

at least, that's what I've used it for when interviewing

He sure acts like one here, so that seems likely.
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God dammit clear you basically had the job,all you had to was play the game for an hour or two smh
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I feel like a survey of this nature tells the interviewer next to nothing about actual job capabilities.

"Are you creative? :D" is not an example of a meaningful question lmao.
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BignutzisBack posted...

God dammit clear you basically had the job,all you had to was play the game for an hour or two smh

To be honest I didn't want it

I would have only taken it if they gave me crazy money

Gobstoppers12 posted...

I feel like a survey of this nature tells the interviewer next to nothing about actual job capabilities.

"Are you creative? :D" is not an example of a meaningful question lmao.

Surveys like this usually don't care about most of the answers. Either they're looking at consistency by asking the same question different ways across many questions to try and tease out if you're lying, or they're meant so the HR person can observe your behavior during the survey and how you react to certain questions. Either way, it doesn't matter that the question isn't meaningful because the answer is irrelevant.
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s0nicfan posted...

Surveys like this usually don't care about most of the answers. Either they're looking at consistency by asking the same question different ways across many questions to try and tease out if you're lying, or they're meant so the HR person can observe your behavior during the survey and how you react to certain questions. Either way, it doesn't matter that the question isn't meaningful because the answer is irrelevant.

So it's basically a bunch of hocus-pocus bullshit that doesn't have anything tangible to do with actual job performance? Same difference, basically.
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We all have to eat shit in order to eat real food. Youre being adversarial because you thought you were better than her test, which may have been all she was trying to determine. There isnt a science to hires, just experience, so she sussed out something she didnt like whether that was fair or not. Thats why we kiss ass.
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I mean, given your personality and posting style on CE..............
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Clear my man, ya gotta work on the 'tude

It's gonna be your downfall
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clearaflagrantj posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Of all the people to give an honest assessment to, HR is by far the worst. They don't understand engineering, so what you saw as an honest, constructive piece of feedback, she probably saw as either adversarial or condescending.

Exactly.

I view truth as a fucking ideal, maybe the highest ideal. When someone is direct with me, even if it's negative towards me, I respect it. I try to have tact of course, I don't want to be an asshole for the sake of it, but I feel like we all have an obligation to each other to be honest in all matters.

You're never going to make it in the private world with that mentality. You're not wrong of course, but you sometimes have to bite the bullet and play the game. You can also still be decently honest without being so direct, you just have to nuance your approach and maybe bend the truth some.
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Gobstoppers12 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Surveys like this usually don't care about most of the answers. Either they're looking at consistency by asking the same question different ways across many questions to try and tease out if you're lying, or they're meant so the HR person can observe your behavior during the survey and how you react to certain questions. Either way, it doesn't matter that the question isn't meaningful because the answer is irrelevant.

So it's basically a bunch of hocus-pocus bullshit that doesn't have anything tangible to do with actual job performance? Same difference, basically.

Oh it does, and the right survey conducted in the right way will tell far more about an individual than any individual survey question ever could. There's a lot of really good science behind these types of surveys. The thing is, that kind of survey requires someone deeply versed in experimental design, not an HR rep.
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s0nicfan posted...

Gobstoppers12 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Surveys like this usually don't care about most of the answers. Either they're looking at consistency by asking the same question different ways across many questions to try and tease out if you're lying, or they're meant so the HR person can observe your behavior during the survey and how you react to certain questions. Either way, it doesn't matter that the question isn't meaningful because the answer is irrelevant.

So it's basically a bunch of hocus-pocus bullshit that doesn't have anything tangible to do with actual job performance? Same difference, basically.

Oh it does, and the right survey conducted in the right way will tell far more about an individual than any individual survey question ever could. There's a lot of really good science behind these types of surveys. The thing is, that kind of survey requires someone deeply versed in experimental design, not an HR rep.

Especially a HR rep who got taken by a salesperson to buy expensive personality test software
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I feel ya on this TC.

I recently got a job that I thought I only landed because of this certification that I'd spend months studying for and acquired shortly before I got hired.

When I spoke honestly about it to the hiring manager she was like "we just thought you'd get along better with our current staff over anyone else we interviewed".

I felt lucky, but defeated.
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HairyThotter posted...

I feel ya on this TC.

I recently got a job that I thought I only landed because of this certification that I'd spend months studying for and acquired shortly before I got hired.

When I spoke honestly about it to the hiring manager she was like "we just thought you'd get along better with our current staff over anyone else we interviewed".

I felt lucky, but defeated.

Don't feel defeated. A driven person with good interpersonal skills is almost better then an agitating loaner with a really strong skill set. It's not really emphasized nearly enough in school, but being able to work effectively with others is one of the most important skill sets you could have in the working world.
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I remember taking one of those tests over a decade ago for a job at Circuit City, and it came back saying I was likely to steal or destroy company property LMAO

still got the job though, shit sucked and I quit a month later

Actually I remember another part of the interview that may have fucked me

The lead engineer was talking about how their most important clients would frequently change the scope of the products and expect the company to meet the original deadline anyway and I asked them how they have improved their project management methodology to accommodate for the customer and I also asked them if they pushed back at all, like I framed a question for them as "what would you do if the customer changed the product way beyond scope and you were literally unable to meet their deadline?" They pretty much said "well in that case we'd work overtime on weekends"

I gotta stop pushing back on these companies, at times I feel like I'm interviewing them and I think they take it as condescending

Wait engineers have to deal with hr bs?
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JBaLLEN66 posted...

Wait engineers have to deal with hr bs?

I'd say the majority of the companies I've applied for have some form of bullshit fluffy HR crap, like "what is your greatest strength?"

Damn that blows...

Conflict posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

"well, it was in depth but when the applicant knows they're being examined in an interview context they may voluntarily/involuntarily skew their answers."

While those types of assessments are bullshit and you're not wrong, that was a bad answer.

I know it was but it was the God damn truth.

Swallowing the truth is what gives me that constant pain deep in my stomach, that's going to fester and grow into the tumor that kills me, instead I want to vomit it out and slap it on the table.

I work with a few different 3rd party engineering firms every day, mostly for surveying and civil work (grading plans, plats, etc.) and having a good relationship with the firm is a helluva lot more important than how well you can draw the contour lines on my grading plan. I'll have the company down the street do my plats for me if you keep bitching every time I change a deadline.
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AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I'll have the company down the street do my plats for me if you keep bitching every time I change a deadline.

You realize deadlines can't be made out of thin air right. You'll just have companies that can claim they'll hit your deadline and then will miss it, and you will be responsible for them.

clearaflagrantj posted...

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I'll have the company down the street do my plats for me if you keep bitching every time I change a deadline.

You realize deadlines can't be made out of thin air right. You'll just have companies that can claim they'll hit your deadline and then will miss it, and you will be responsible for them.

They literally can depending on the contract type. Agile development is basically "you keep making shit up for me to do" the methodology.
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s0nicfan posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I'll have the company down the street do my plats for me if you keep bitching every time I change a deadline.

You realize deadlines can't be made out of thin air right. You'll just have companies that can claim they'll hit your deadline and then will miss it, and you will be responsible for them.

They literally can depending on the contract type. Agile development is basically "you keep making shit up for me to do" the methodology.

Why would civil engineering work require agile pm methodology

clearaflagrantj posted...

s0nicfan posted...

clearaflagrantj posted...

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

I'll have the company down the street do my plats for me if you keep bitching every time I change a deadline.

You realize deadlines can't be made out of thin air right. You'll just have companies that can claim they'll hit your deadline and then will miss it, and you will be responsible for them.

They literally can depending on the contract type. Agile development is basically "you keep making shit up for me to do" the methodology.

Why would civil engineering work require agile pm methodology

Oh, civil? I thought we were talking about engineering.
low blow! J/K btw

Yeah, civil engineers generally wouldn't have to rely on agile. Although even with firm-fixed requirements, you will always have companies that simply hire the lowest bidder or bidders that intentionally over promise and hope to ask for forgiveness once most of the money is spent.
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