Board 8 > Yu Yu Hakusho Mafia End of Game Discussion Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Nah, I refuse that. If Lopen makes the exact same plays but is polite about it instead of a trolling asshole the game never degenerates it toxic sludge. I tried shrugging it off for hours and he just kept getting worse. This is 100% on him. He was the same way last game too.

It's funny how only the toxic person has bad interactions with me. The rest of us had good times both games
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Meow1000 posted...

Chris's Pike

Thought this was a Star Trek reference at first

So everyone should be polite except you huh? I'm actually only hostile to you and that's cause I'm bad at turning the other cheek. It's a character flaw of mine. If you start by being polite, I don't escalate it. If you don't, I do.

But you're the initiator, not me. You'll note I was completely cordial to you before the last day. Then you started talking about how we were all dumb for not mass claiming and stressing how you didn't need to read the game if you had a list of roles and how b8 was bad because they read players and not the game or whatever, and so I escalated. Pretty simple.
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This game was hard to read. Two reasons why. One, I have Lopen on ignore, as I'm sure you all see why, so I missed posts. Two, it got ugly, and I think it'd be of benefit if you all took the some time off from lynching each other. How long is up to you.

I was considering joining for once to try and redeem myself but I am really glad I didn't. I wouldn't have handled it well.

I think I'll just continue observing quietly. >_>
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fire_bolt posted...

I would have given up the mass claim if literally only Corrik and I supported it. Instead you personally decided to mislynch and obvious town Corrik and start trolling instead of being a team player. This loss can be laid directly at your feet, Lopen, and you're simply too full of yourself to realize it

You and Corrik were the only town that supported it.
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I actually don't know why. Who is this person?
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fire_bolt posted...

Nah, I refuse that. If Lopen makes the exact same plays but is polite about it instead of a trolling asshole the game never degenerates it toxic sludge. I tried shrugging it off for hours and he just kept getting worse. This is 100% on him. He was the same way last game too.

It's funny how only the toxic person has bad interactions with me. The rest of us had good times both games

Are you calling me toxic?
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Meow1000 posted...

Oh and I replaced the moment Ulti was hammered and wanted him to flip town power. I didn't replace because he was.

Then I care nothing about anything else you have to say. You wanted your team to lose then replaced out also. Says enough.

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Also I wasn't trolling just to troll I was trolling to try and make Corrik (or any other scum) slip into something by pretending to take my absurdity seriously because I figured anyone who was trying to figure the game out would not come to that conclusion and would realize I was just being an idiot

And he did. But he wasn't scum. So why did he react that way I don't know-- but I would say that's probably a flaw in his play. Making a snap judgment that someone is scum and flipping on it less than 10 minutes later means you're not carefully considering who is scum and who isn't.
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MZero11 posted...

I didn't think this game was bad at all in terms of hostility. I think the hosts had the right to end it if they felt that way, but personally I thought it was pretty tame

Yeah, I don't get it either. There was a couple areas it got chippy, but it wasn't bad at all.

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I didn't think it was hostile either. Not to a point where it needed to be ended anyway. But I have a thicker skin than most about this so *shrug

Like from 0 to Politics Containment Topic this was probably a 3
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Lopen posted...

Also I wasn't trolling just to troll I was trolling to try and make Corrik (or any other scum) slip into something by pretending to take my absurdity seriously because I figured anyone who was trying to figure the game out would not come to that conclusion and would realize I was just being an idiot

This is not a very good tactic when the supposed insanity you're trying to display is not any crazier than things you've genuinely done in the past (English Lit mafia and the "all power claims are fake, actual power is all hiding even though if they countered it would instant-win the game" business).

In general I don't think pretending to be stupid in the hopes that someone will think you're stupid is a very effective scum hunting tactic. If the act is convincing enough to fool anyone, it's going to fool town too.
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I felt the act shouldn't have been convincing enough to fool anyone

3-4 doctors like come on guys
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Lopen posted...

If you're going to say anyone at all handed you the Ben lynch but Ben that's just you being mad that I catch you as scum every game. I was pushing for the Lea lynch that day.

Corrik, sure, yeah, but he helped by playing anti-town that's all I'm saying. If he cooperates a bit more and doesn't railroad town into mass claim for the sake of it and be completely non-cooperative about it there are other lynches Im maybe considering.

Dude, you played anti-town. You just said red was anti-town for not claiming when -1. Then you were effectively put to -1 and started trolling. You contradicted yourself.

I was playing to win by taking a suspect or two off the board for town. You just straight tunneled town day 5 without even going back to see if it made sense.

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Lopen posted...

Corrik was MASS CLAIM no scumhunting at all
Fire Bolt was Corrik flunkie who didn't care to read the game
Scare didn't do anything

I went back and re-read several times. It is why I said you were town despite your bad argument.

Fire and scare both were able to figure out I was town unlike you. So, you can't say they didn't do anything. You just failed there, Lopen. Accept it.

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Meow1000 posted...

It's like you still don't get my vote was to draw the hammer so I could replace out to begin with

This is 100% bullshit btw.

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Corrik7 posted...

Then you were effectively put to -1 and started trolling. You contradicted yourself.

I was put to -1 for a reason that wasn't that anyone thought I was scum on the lynch

Here's a hint if you're organizing a mass claim and need to vote people to force them to do it, it's not going to be effective. Those votes are not doing anything in terms of pressure because no one takes the pressure seriously.

Mass claims the town supports, the town just agrees on a time and everyone just does it.
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Corrik7 posted...

I was playing to win by taking a suspect or two off the board for town.

You took FD off the board though lol
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Lopen posted...

I felt the act shouldn't have been convincing enough to fool anyone

3-4 doctors like come on guys

Do we need to have a big group conversation on the insane things people have legitimately believed in b8 mafia history or can we just accept that someone suggesting double doctor balances a big scum team + SK isn't beyond what you can expect someone on b8 to actually advocate

Because I think we can accept that's a possibility. I knew the more than two part was you trolling but the two part was not clear because again, it's less nuts than the stuff you genuinely believed in English Lit mafia! People have no way of knowing for sure what you really think because you've only been back a few games after a long time away, but if you read the room (as you like to say), you'd see that you've kind of gotten yourself a reputation for making up wild theories.
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Corrik7 posted...

Meow1000 posted...

It's like you still don't get my vote was to draw the hammer so I could replace out to begin with

This is 100% bullshit btw.

Go look at the posts I was making at the time tbqh.

I was practically begging for someone to hammer. I sent the replace request within a minute of it landing

Seriously though Mafia by design is a toxic game people seem to forget this sometimes.
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MZero11 posted...

You took FD off the board though lol

Yeah, sucks to be wrong.

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Meow1000 posted...

Go look at the posts I was making at the time tbqh.

I was practically begging for someone to hammer. I sent the replace request within a minute of it landing

Seriously though Mafia by design is a toxic game people seem to forget this sometimes.

No. This is 100% bullshit that this happened and not everyone is calling for you to have a ban.

You outright said your plan was to purposely tank your team and replace out. That's bullshit. That is beyond not playing to win. That's playing to fuck your team over.

I'd like to think you just are after the game justifying your vote, but if true, you played to sabotage your team and not to win. Then replaced out also to not deal with what you did.

That's total bullshit.

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If you don't wanna play then replace out. If you don't like the direction of the game, help change it. You don't replace out for a game you signed up for and purposely try to Lynch who you think is your teammate so you can replace out. Bull fucking shit. The fact people are flossing over this is total trash. That's terrible from a person perspective, dude.

Be like being on a football team, purposely fumbling to the other team. Then walking off the field and quitting. That's some low ass shit.

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Though it's amusing that Corrik of all people would accuse me of lying about something that can easily be confirmed or denied by another person keep doing it imo
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Lopen posted...

Like from 0 to Politics Containment Topic this was probably a 3

for my money, even registering on that scale is a bad sign >_> Admittedly I have less tolerance than most people for that sorta thing, and you seem to have a lot more.

also like there weren't tons of options I feel like. We couldn't modkill because it wasn't really a situation where one single player could be singled out as the problem. (and it also would've essentially ended game anyway- town would be in perpetual lylo AND JK would've had to stop every kill) There wasn't really much left we could give scum as a minor bonus. (we did float the idea of actually letting FD's ability go off >_>) Warnings in-topic could've implied you were all town. We didn't have an eagle eye on the game at the specific time so the time for PM warnings was kinda past. Letting the game go on and doing nothing would not really give future hosts a leg to stand on in enforcing civility. I dunno if ending game was the BEST call, but I don't think there were many good alternatives, and we chose to err on the side of promoting a healthier culture. (or trying to) I don't think much could've made next day go any smoother than the point where day ended.

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Meow1000 posted...

Though it's amusing that Corrik of all people would accuse me of lying about something that can easily be confirmed or denied by another person keep doing it imo

Well, I have a higher opinion of you then what you are saying. If you honestly did what you said, then you never deserved any respect at all. That's embarrassing. And you seem proud of it is worse.

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Tom Bombadil posted...

for my money, even registering on that scale is a bad sign >_> Admittedly I have less tolerance than most people for that sorta thing, and you seem to have a lot more.

also like there weren't tons of options I feel like. We couldn't modkill because it wasn't really a situation where one single player could be singled out as the problem. (and it also would've essentially ended game anyway- town would be in perpetual lylo AND JK would've had to stop every kill) There wasn't really much left we could give scum as a minor bonus. (we did float the idea of actually letting FD's ability go off >_>) Warnings in-topic could've implied you were all town. We didn't have an eagle eye on the game at the specific time so the time for PM warnings was kinda past. I dunno if ending game was the BEST call, but I don't think there were many good alternatives, and we chose to err on the side of promoting a healthier culture. (or trying to) I don't think much could've made next day go any smoother than the point where day ended.

Remember to play nice. It is a rule and expected. This will be the only warning for this

here is the night kill

day 6 begins now

solved lol

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do you think that would've fixed it

I don't

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Tom Bombadil posted...

do you think that would've fixed it

I don't

Then you modkill the perpetrators the following day. I doubt Lopen would have continued after being warned tho.

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then the only difference is we saved everybody a few hours >_>

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I don't think there was even close to 5 people who were even into warning territory. I'd put that number at maybe 2 at best. And, no one I felt that crossed into modkill territory.

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Tom Bombadil posted...

then the only difference is we saved everybody a few hours >_>

That's an if. Everyone could have followed it. So you maybe saved everyone a few hours.

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that's just a question of how lenient you are on rule 0 then because I can name 4 warnings without thinking and probably could've modkilled at least one

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Tom Bombadil posted...

that's just a question of how lenient you are on rule 0 then because I can name 4 warnings without thinking and probably could've modkilled at least one

Nobody did anything worse this game than blade self-admittedly did.

Like the fact that blade said his intention was to hurt his team and replace out and nobody seems to want to acknowledge this and how bullshit this is just wild.

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then if it feels better you can think of it as a delayed-reaction blade modkill! >_>

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Corrik7 posted...

I doubt Lopen would have continued after being warned tho.

I doubt anyone would have continued it even without the warning because we'd probably agree on everything with you dead (I would support mass claim at actual Lylo and I feel like we had similar town reads) but yeah.
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also like we've had at least a couple people openly state that this game made them less interested in playing mafia

I think that's justification in itself for taking action

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Tom Bombadil posted...

also like we've had at least a couple people openly state that this game made them less interested in playing mafia

I think that's justification in itself for taking action

Sure had that effect on me.
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To be fair in my case at least it wasn't the toxicity that made me lose interest in playing mafia here it was people strongarming their plays, especially those who haven't even been closely following, to the detriment of town

Like if you want me to say which player turns me off from mafia more Fire_Bolt or Ben (or Blade I guess, honestly) right now it's very easily the latter.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

also like we've had at least a couple people openly state that this game made them less interested in playing mafia

I think that's justification in itself for taking action

Indeed. We can't afford to lose players >_>
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Lopen posted...

Corrik7 posted...

I doubt Lopen would have continued after being warned tho.

I doubt anyone would have continued it even without the warning because we'd probably agree on everything with you dead (I would support mass claim at actual Lylo and I feel like we had similar town reads) but yeah.

This was my point in hammering Corrik btw. With another mislynch town probably pulls together. To me it looked he was gonna die regardless, I just sped up the process so we could get back on track hopefully
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Though to be 100% blunt I intentionally ignored Chris' "what if he's town?" because my answer would've been that I hoped he was and I didn't want to say something like that during the game. I had no interest in adding that poison.

I can be town, scum, or even Indy; it doesn't matter. I will always hope for a town power flip in that scenario and will hope it is followed by town getting crushed.

As Indy I would effectively scum align myself the rest of the game. Since I won't do that as town, the best option would've been to replace out.

I was town that wanted town to lose and I have no regrets about those feelings. I find it's very important for town to lose a game like this one, possibly even *necessary*.

Just like in Hearthstone, if the terrible play isn't punished people are not going to learn.

This is pretty much everything I was thinking at the time.

(Also I was positive Ulti gets early hammered with or without my help, so I was just speeding it along)
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Meow1000 posted...

Though to be 100% blunt I intentionally ignored Chris' "what if he's town?" because my answer would've been that I hoped he was and I didn't want to say something like that during the game. I had no interest in adding that poison.

I can be town, scum, or even Indy; it doesn't matter. I will always hope for a town power flip in that scenario and will hope it is followed by town getting crushed.

As Indy I would effectively scum align myself the rest of the game. Since I won't do that as town, the best option would've been to replace out.

You can't make that judgment only two hours into a game. If you're making that judgment two hours in you're already coming in with a bad mindset.

If what we did is not actually hammered with no response from Ulti, it's a perfectly fine way to start a day 1 in terms of generating content. You're the only one who made it the kinda thing that needs to be punished. Self-fulfilling prophecy, there.
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"terrible play". So hard to say hey I think we should get a claim here before hammering Instead of I will put him -1 then complain he got hammered.

Sure.

Just stop talking, Blade. You said you purposely tried to hurt your team to replace out after. No time for that bs.

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Like before you had the vote that was not consistent with how you were playing there was a lot of content in that day one

- I had a scumread on FD for checking in and saying nothing was happening when we had a wagon at 7 and that he supported an Ulti lynch cause he hates him but not voting for it
- I had a light scumread on Chris because as you said he was being too passive about his lynch
- I had a light scumread on Ulti because it felt like he just poofed in response to votes
- I had a light scumread on SBell because I thought he moved to the Ulti lynch for not much reason after speaking against the lynch early, and his opinions on whether Ulti was scum or not seemed poorly constructed

Obviously not all of these were correct but to say it was a bad start to day 1 is wrong. It was highly condensed highly usable content seeing how people reacted to a blitz wagon. It only became bad day one because because you helped it become one by putting it at -1 and it ended so quickly.

Now I'm for early hammers but not if the person being hammered isn't thought to be scum by the majority on the lynch, and not if the person hasn't had a chance to defend themselves. But early pressure, even if it's for an extremely stupid reason? That's usable content.
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OMZero11 posted...

Tom Bombadil posted...

also like we've had at least a couple people openly state that this game made them less interested in playing mafia

I think that's justification in itself for taking action

Indeed. We can't afford to lose players >_>

Make the maximum game size 13 for a while. If you get more signups than your game is sized for, cut people instead of expanding it. Don't hesitate to cut people who have repeatedly shown a propensity towards idling out and not giving a fuck.

I think recent games have shown that 17 is more than this community can truly support tbqh.

Oh, we marking people in threads now? Brb, gonna have a field day with this
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I can wait until I'm town and everyone scum reads me for saying and doing the exact same things I did this game.

It's like how red mentioned that I always leave a bread crumb, regardless of alignment.

I would always mention that I do not like Ulti in that spot.

I would always be reluctant to vote in that spot.

I would always mention that I was going to be playing VR for a couple of hours and that I planned to be back.

.

I'm sure there were legitimate instances this game where I behaved in a particular way because of my alignment, such as not stubbornly pushing Lea harder once it seemed like she was going to avoid the noose. Even do, that was only because town was inexplicably making that an option. But the things you are scum reading me on are things that are modeled directly after my town play.
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