Board 8 > Fire Emblem: Three Houses Topic 3: Mortal Savant is a Bad Class Edition

(+) Yeah! (+)

If I recall correctly, enemy Peg Knights are treated as an Advanced class, even though it's an Intermediate class for the player.
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UltimaterializerX posted...

?

Basically go watch the Felix/Seteth B support where Felix makes his opinion clear on the subject. Or his conflict with his father in his paralogue. He's abrasive but he's almost always right. Or consider Gilbert in general and how completely messed up his family situation is, all because of his cultural hang-up over "failing" to be a proper knight and outliving his liege.

Faerghus is a culture that glorifies war and chivalry and worships dying in combat and this directly ****s up like half the Blue Lions PCs.

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Yeah, that's part of the reason I love Felix so much. He's the only one who recognizes how messed up it is at how much Faerghus glorifies death and he's not afraid to speak out about it, even though none of them really agree with him or ever seem to come around on it.

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That is why I don't really like Crimson Flower. It reads like fan fic to me.

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tbf Rhea is pretty consistently shady even before the route split, if anything it feels weird that you end up siding with her anyway on 3 out of 4 routes >_>

though even CF drops the ball a bit with it being framed as if the main problem with the church is "Rhea is a dragon so she shouldn't be in charge of humans" rather than, y'know, the wanton executions, suppression of knowledge because Rhea is afraid any technological advancement will lead to another Agarthans situation, heavy pushing of the Crest system directly leading to fucked up stuff like Sylvain's and Hanneman's backstories...

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Rhea's definitely sketchy. But is she more sketchy than the Flame Emperor, whose introduction to the story is "you useless damn bandits didn't even kill anyone, go die now kthx?"
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Crimson Flower Chapter 12 is arguably my favorite fight in Fire Emblem. It's so good.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

In reality, Edelgard is a sympathetic figure.

theoretically but it doesn't justify her actions any more than it justifies Rhea's

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I have fallen behind. What DLC has released since Ball is Life?

MichelBollinger posted...

I have fallen behind. What DLC has released since Ball is Life?

Butler / Maid outfits, Generic Academy outfits, Sothis outfit for Byleth, Sauna, Ability to feed cats and dogs.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

Okay. The way this game tells its story is really off. When you play the other two routes, Edelgard is portrayed as a tyrant. In this route, Rhea is. The multiple choices are not handled well, because character personalities change too much.

I actually think the characters are very consistent. The point is that who is a villain is a matter of perspective.

(Rhea is always a tyrant whenever she has power, the only time she isn't one is when she is a captive i.e. she has no power. For Edelgard, I think the key word there is <i>portrayed</i>, her behaviour is pretty darn similar regardless though, both the good and the bad.)

Two chapters from the end of CF Maddening here!

Alanna82 posted...

That is why I don't really like Crimson Flower. It reads like fan fic to me.

I have to strongly disagree, CF is an essential part of the game's experience. You can't really claim to understand Three Houses until you've played Crimson Flower and at least one other route; doing so is essential to understanding both Edelgard and Rhea who are arguably the two most important characters to the overall narrative.

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NeoElfboy posted...

I actually think the characters are very consistent. The point is that who is a villain is a matter of perspective.

(Rhea is always a tyrant whenever she has power, the only time she isn't one is when she is a captive i.e. she has no power. For Edelgard, I think the key word there is <i>portrayed</i>, her behaviour is pretty darn similar regardless though, both the good and the bad.)

Two chapters from the end of CF Maddening here!

I have to strongly disagree, CF is an essential part of the game's experience. You can't really claim to understand Three Houses until you've played Crimson Flower and at least one other route; doing so is essential to understanding both Edelgard and Rhea who are arguably the two most important characters to the overall narrative.

My husband played Crimson Flower. It still reads like Fan Fic. The only good thing about the route was it made me actually kind of like Hubert in his supports.

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Alanna82 posted...

My husband played Crimson Flower. It still reads like Fan Fic.

I have no idea what this means.
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Edelgard is a completely different character in it. It reads like her fan fiction she wrote.

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Is she? I felt like she was pretty similar to how she is in the other routes. The only difference is that it's the only route where you get to see what she's like in private.
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The thing CF does is show a story where you can view Edelgard as a hero. The people following her have reason to, and when Rhea goes mad, Edel's ends seem to justify her means.It almost fits the story archetype so perfectly you don't naturally question a lot of Edel's choices. War over other nations to beat the evil dragon? Sure sounds like a fire emblem game, lead the way my cutie anime leader who is afraid of mice and draws yaoi. If CF was more pushed as a first route, it would be a much better route.

The other routes show definitively that Edelgard is a power-hungry monster with no redeeming characteristics, so playing as her route after feels gross and watching the characters around Edel follow her and show commitment seems disturbing in an almost fan fiction way, so I totally get what Alanna is saying

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Edelgard's B Support spells out the cascading effect having Byleth stick around has on her.

CF being undercooked is a bummer, but I appreciate it attempting something different, as opposed to how samey the other three routes are.

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MawiIe posted...

The other routes show definitively that Edelgard is a power-hungry monster with no redeeming characteristics

lol
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Well, Blue Lions definitely depicts her that way, but that's also from Dimitri's admittedly skewed perspective (although her death scene is notably different between Blue Lions and Golden Deer. Dimitri kills her without remorse as she desperately tries to kill him at the last moment after transforming into a monster, whereas Byleth gives her more of a "mercy kill" in the Golden Deer route, and Claude doesn't really want to kill her).

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All Eddie needs is that sweet Byleth booty to stay grounded.

Also saying something is "like fanfiction" is a wierd insult to me nowadays. Plenty of games where the fanfiction surpasses the source material.

Beat CF Maddening today. Raging Storm on a wyvern is crazy good.

Alanna82 posted...

Edelgard is a completely different character in it. It reads like her fan fiction she wrote.

Yeah I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on that, because as Mac Arrowny said her behaviour and attitude is pretty darn similar regardless of route. She's driven, she's willing to do anything to win, she truly believes that the future she envisions is what's best for Fodlan. What specific examples do you have in mind of behaviour on one route that you would consider vastly out of character on another?

MawiIe posted...

The other routes show definitively that Edelgard is a power-hungry monster with no redeeming characteristics, so playing as her route after feels gross and watching the characters around Edel follow her and show commitment seems disturbing in an almost fan fiction way, so I totally get what Alanna is saying

Even if Edelgard were utterly reprehensible (and the truth definitely lies somewhere in the middle, that's the point), people following her around and showing commitment to her would still be realistic, not "fan fiction". People did these things with Hitler for crying out loud. As is, the game goes out of its way to demonstrate why each of the Black Eagles follows her, and Byleth only follows her if you as the player make the conscious decision to have them do so.

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The thing with the portrait she paints of Byleth seems really out of character.

And the fact Edelgard is supposed to get rid of the nobility, but most of the endings still mention people as nobles. Spoilers for a few endings:Sylvain's ending- Still a Margrave. Marianne's endings mention her inheritance. I could see maybe having the rest of the black eagles keep their titles, but these are kingdom and alliance nobles mentioned. I guess this isn't out of character exactly, but it doesn't seem to line up with "destroying nobility" and giving titles on merit.

And the thing with Byleth's crest stone shattering even though Rhea dies in other routes is total fan fic.

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Her ending does suggest that it takes the rest of her life for her to get rid of the noble system.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Her ending does suggest that it takes the rest of her life for her to get rid of the noble system.

The rest of Edelgard's life is like 8 years. It's implied by Lysethia's backstory that the things done to Edelgard and Lysethia by the Slithers means they are dying around 30 or before it.

There is a bunch of stuff that suggests that her ideals aren't really realized. (looking at endings of various eagles and combo endings) Also she blatantly appoints people who are friends over people who would have been more qualified. None of the endings are actually all sunshines and rainbows tho.

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Wait, who the hell would be more qualified than the fucking Generals of the Black Eagles Strike Force?!!!

Not that we see who gets appointed to any position of import outside of Ferdinand as Prime Minister. And his ending specifically says he earned it through his actions and hard work. Let's not act like Bernadetta got tabbed as Minister of Finance in the ending.

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SythaWarrior posted...

The rest of Edelgard's life is like 8 years. It's implied by Lysethia's backstory that the things done to Edelgard and Lysethia by the Slithers means they are dying around 30 or before it.

Eh. For one, Edelgard seems not to be as damaged as Lysithea was. And secondly, it's perfectly possibly that Hanneman or Linhardt or someone would've cured her if she were. I don't see any reason to think she dies that early.
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Various paired endings have Edelgard/Lysithea "cured" and their lifespan returned to normal. IIRC, it generally involves them being paired with Byleth, Hanneman, Linhardt, or Manuela. A couple others are arguably ambiguous. So yeah, I don't think it's unfair to assume Edelgard could have a normal lifespan in CF though it wouldn't be guaranteed. I think it's most explicit with Lysithea but if it can be done for her there's no reason it couldn't for Edelgard.

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Chapter 14 is indeed very fun, enjoyed the war log. Do you know about dismounting, by the way? You can do it as a free action before or after moving (but not both), and it allows your fliers to basically cheat their arrow weakness. (Aurora Shield is still very useful anyway, because on top of its obvious perk it gives 3 defence for 0 weight.)

Alanna82 posted...

The thing with the portrait she paints of Byleth seems really out of character.

And the fact Edelgard is supposed to get rid of the nobility, but most of the endings still mention people as nobles. Spoilers for a few endings:Sylvain's ending- Still a Margrave. Marianne's endings mention her inheritance. I could see maybe having the rest of the black eagles keep their titles, but these are kingdom and alliance nobles mentioned. I guess this isn't out of character exactly, but it doesn't seem to line up with "destroying nobility" and giving titles on merit.

And the thing with Byleth's crest stone shattering even though Rhea dies in other routes is total fan fic.

For the first point: why? What part of her character does it contradict? She's a bit of a dork and she likes Byleth. Part of the point of the route is that you see the human underneath the emperor exterior.

For the third point: In Crimson Flower and only in Crimson Flower, Byleth makes a conscious choice to reject his/her "fate" as a vessel of Sothis. The crest stone crumbling symbolizes their freedom from the godess / the church, paralleling the choice that s/he and Edelgard made for Fodlan. I found it very powerful and effective and consider it a wonderful ending for that route. That said, it would have felt weird and out of place on other routes. I don't think Rhea dying is the direct trigger; I agree that wouldn't make much sense since it's Sothis's crest stone, not Rhea's. Rather, it probably happens due to the will of Byleth, Sothis, or both.

EDIT: Had to fix the spoiler tags. Is there any HTML-like way to do them?

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Hearing these Maddening stories is making me hyped for my own eventual playthrough of it (though that'll be a NG+ run because I'm a wimp, lol). Current plan is to go through it on my own as Church route after I'm done playing through the other three routes with my parents (so far we've finished CF and are in the middle of the school phase with the Deer)

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EDIT: Had to fix the spoiler tags. Is there any HTML-like way to do them?

I think you're looking for My Settings -> Advanced Settings -> Message Posting Form. Has Classic and What You See Is What You Get options available.
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considering it took three months to get through this topic another one feels a tad unnecessary

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Felix forever

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