Board 8 > Moving to San Francisco

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ok a 1 hour train ride commute for <$1k rent is honestly not too bad. That's probably the optimal way to live in the bay area (given you're selling your whole day to your work, which is what most bay area people do).
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Foolmo, I hope you aren't as miserable in real life as your posts make you seem.
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It's a 1 hour commute door-to-door? That's nothing really
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Foolmo, I hope you aren't as miserable in real life as your posts make you seem.

Of course not. He doesnt live in the bay area!

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My commute in Pittsburgh was worse, tbh.

Ended at 5, got home at 6:30. I'll end at 5:30 and probably get home no later than 6:30 too. I have to see how the timing is but the train is 35 minutes to and back.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Foolmo, I hope you aren't as miserable in real life as your posts make you seem.

I'm genuinely saying that you found an optimal bay area setup btw

but the opposite of misery isn't optimism
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Yeah that's about as short as my commute from Brooklyn to midtown, and I am paying way more than $900/month lol
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I have a 2 hour commute, but I work remotely twice a week, which helps a lot

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Why wouldn't you work remote 5 days a week with a 2 hour commute

God damn
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Because there is an advantage that comes from meeting with people in person

Plus I do some work on the train and count it as part of the work day so that I'm not in office for 8 hours

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foolm0r0n posted...

Why wouldn't you work remote 5 days a week with a 2 hour commute

God damn

Some jobs you can't work remote every day?
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Snrkiko posted...

SwiftyDC posted...

I am a little over 4 hours south of SF, in Santa Maria.

wait no shit

i was in santa maria for work last Thursday

the drive up from orange county sucks balls

Yup, been up here since 2012. I work at Vandenberg. Space Force!
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KingButz posted...

Some jobs you can't work remote every day?

Increasingly fewer. I don't know his job but my point is if 2 full days and half of each other day remote is fine, then 5 full days remote should be fine too. It's not like he's a construction worker.
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This really depends on who you work for
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foolm0r0n posted...

KingButz posted...

Some jobs you can't work remote every day?

Increasingly fewer. I don't know his job but my point is if 2 full days and half of each other day remote is fine, then 5 full days remote should be fine too. It's not like he's a construction worker.

Not sure if trolling or just that ignorant.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Not sure if trolling or just that ignorant.

It's pretty much in accordance with his stance in previous topics, so I think it's something he actually believes.

Basically he believes that there's no disadvantage to not being physically present unless you are physically manipulating things at that location.

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It is empirically true. Nothing to do with what I believe, although I do tend to believe in things that are empirically true. But believing in my boss's propaganda is also fine I guess.
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"empirically"

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foolm0r0n posted...

It is empirically true. Nothing to do with what I believe, although I do tend to believe in things that are empirically true. But believing in my boss's propaganda is also fine I guess.

L M F A O

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To be fair, let's take a look at this from foolmo's perspective. After all, what benefit is there in foolmo being at a place?
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mnkboy907 posted...

After all, what benefit is there in foolmo being at a place?

Yes, and same applies to anyone else whose job is entirely on the computer. You win the award for least dumb person ITT for at least accidentally acknowledging the point.

This is one of the weirdest things people get offended by because it's 100% to your own benefit to control your commute. I get the defensive mechanism of convincing yourself the office is crucial in order to justify the amount of life you're wasting, but it's much simpler to just not do the commute.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Yes, and same applies to anyone else whose job is entirely on the computer.

How many jobs meet this qualification though? I mean, theres a decent sized gap between, your job is entirely on the computer and construction worker.

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redrocket posted...

How many jobs meet this qualification though?

A ton in our service economy. It would be so easy for the LMFAOers to say that their job is not remote-workable, which obviously means I'm not talking about them, but they know their jobs totally are (e.g. Gin's job that is already 40% remote) and so they have nothing else to say.
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I mean I'm a software developer and when my team was given the option to try working from home, I still came to the office (though a couple people on my team stayed home) because I just work better in that environment for a number of reasons (human interaction being one). But my drive to work is 10-15 minutes so maybe it doesn't matter.

What am I supposed to say to someone who believes their opinion is "empirically" true? Sorry champ

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Working from home 100% of the time is fine if the following criteria is met:

-Don't need to do anything physical at the location
-Team is mostly people working from home or you have very limited meetings/need for contact
-You are largely self-sufficient
-You are able to effectively work from home
-You are able to show that you are producing results while working from home or are at a small enough company where they can't check

You can work from home exclusively still even if all of those aren't met. We have some people in our department that do that despite not meeting the second. They were still more effective when they came in sometimes due to communication being easier for some things in person unless everyone is used to doing it exclusively online.
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VintageGin posted...

What am I supposed to say to someone who believes their opinion is "empirically" true? Sorry champ

That you disagree, also empirically?

The reason I say empirically is because you and 99% of anti-remote workers have never tried working remote, don't know the slightest shit you are talking about, at best extrapolating the 1 time you stayed home for a snow day and didn't get anything done, and yet still are so proudly confident of your impossibility to ever work remotely.

Like I said, it's not even about my opinion vs yours. It's just a fact that your life would be better if you could control your commute. Think about why you are so offended by the idea itself, not whether I'm right or you're right.
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I think remote work depends entirely on the industry and the people you work with. To say it's a blanket good or bad is silly. But this is the internet so I understand the desire for extremes.
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turbopuns3 posted...

I mean I'm a software developer and when my team was given the option to try working from home, I still came to the office

How much did you try working remote before you decided it was impractical? I get that it's more comfortable to keep up your routine, but that doesn't make it better. A ton of my colleagues refuse to learn breakpoint debugging, but that doesn't mean print debugging is clearly the superior option. They're just lazy. Imagine instead if your boss FORCED you to work remote, how would you cope? Would you call them an idiot and quit on the spot? Gin would.

Like for your want human interaction, that's one of the easiest things you can get way better and easier outside of the office. With the added bonus of not using your coworkers like an emotional cup of coffee anymore.

And same for these examples:
Colegreen_c12 posted...

-Team is mostly people working from home or you have very limited meetings/need for contact
-You are largely self-sufficient
-You are able to effectively work from home
-You are able to show that you are producing results while working from home or are at a small enough company where they can't check

Your 1st point is a requirement, but none of these are. Meetings and contact can be far more effective digitally, it just takes and adjustment. Same with self-sufficiency and working effectively. On day 1 of your first job out of college you sure as hell weren't an efficient office worker, but you learned. You can learn remote too. The last req is implied to be true by the 1st point already.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think remote work depends entirely on the industry and the people you work with. To say it's a blanket good or bad is silly. But this is the internet so I understand the desire for extremes.

What does it depend on? It means nothing to just say "dae centrism??"
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think remote work depends entirely on the industry and the people you work with. To say it's a blanket good or bad is silly. But this is the internet so I understand the desire for extremes.

Probably depends on who you live with also lolol

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Worst part of the west coast: 10 am football. How the hell do people do it?
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When I mentioned human interaction I didn't mean "wahhh I'm alone at home :("

I just meant chat messages, emails, or screen sharing are not as effective as me just spinning around in my chair and going "hey do you think you could help me with this?"

Though if your fellow devs don't use breakpoints I completely understand why being able to optimize your communication with them isn't a priority.

turbopuns3 posted...

I just meant chat messages, emails, or screen sharing are not as effective as me just spinning around in my chair and going "hey do you think you could help me with this?"

I understand. I'm saying that spinning around your chair is the most horrible way to communicate and the damage it causes your coworkers and company is one of the easiest things to demonstrate.

There's a reason those coworkers you talked about have opted out of your "optimal" method of communication (props to your boss for giving them to choice).
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foolm0r0n posted...

spinning around your chair is the most horrible way to communicate and the damage it causes your coworkers and company is one of the easiest things to demonstrate.

Ok

Then why does any chat conversation that escalates in complexity invariably result in one of us walking over to the other person's computer?

foolm0r0n posted...

Nelson_Mandela posted...

I think remote work depends entirely on the industry and the people you work with. To say it's a blanket good or bad is silly. But this is the internet so I understand the desire for extremes.

What does it depend on? It means nothing to just say "dae centrism??"

You know what it depends on
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I hope people feel silly for discussing anything seriously with foolmo now.
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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I hope people feel silly for discussing anything seriously with foolmo now.

Some scientists believe that by 2045 we will have technology capable of building a telescope powerful enough to see the top of his ivory tower, but I'm not holding my breath.

What kind of bizarro world does foolmo live in where everyone just has the choice to work remote?

Regardless of whether it's less effective or not, the fact is that most employees (esp. those not in tech) are not allowed that option.
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He's also missing the best part of working in an office: having affairs with coworkers.

I guess dev chicks probably aren't that enticing though.
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turbopuns3 posted...

Then why does any chat conversation that escalates in complexity invariably result in one of us walking over to the other person's computer?

Because you haven't developed the tools to deal with that situation, like the programmers who never use breakpoints. It doesn't "invariably" happen with your fully remote coworkers. It's clear that you think they are less effective and look down on them, but they're not. You are less effective than them.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

You know what it depends on

Yeah and I said so in the beginning and you disagreed so tell me your logic.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

He's also missing the best part of working in an office: having affairs with coworkers.

This is what I'm talking about though. The remote work equivalent of this is banging freshman college chicks at your local community college, which you totally miss out on in the office.
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KingButz posted...

What kind of bizarro world does foolmo live in where everyone just has the choice to work remote?

This is the farthest thing from what I'm talking about. We're talking about how ridiculous it is to choose to work remote when you can go into the office (assuming it's only 2~ hours long one way). What I'm talking about is the pervasive culture among workers, who would directly benefit from controlling more hours of their day, against remote work. If the workers can't even advocate for it, then obviously the managers won't give the choice.

Again it all comes down to this: If your boss forced you to work remote, would you quit on the spot because they are refusing to let you do your job? If so, you're fucked in the near future. You can try to slow it down as much as possible, but it's soooooo much easier to just learn how to write a god damn document and communicate asynchronously.
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foolm0r0n posted...

This is the farthest thing from what I'm talking about. We're talking about how ridiculous it is to choose to work remote when you can go into the office (assuming it's only 2~ hours long one way). What I'm talking about is the pervasive culture among workers, who would directly benefit from controlling more hours of their day, against remote work. If the workers can't even advocate for it, then obviously the managers won't give the choice.

Again it all comes down to this: If your boss forced you to work remote, would you quit on the spot because they are refusing to let you do your job? If so, you're fucked in the near future. You can try to slow it down as much as possible, but it's soooooo much easier to just learn how to write a god damn document and communicate asynchronously.

Spoken like a true person who doesn't know what it is like to have children at home. People can prefer to work at work to do their job.

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foolm0r0n posted...

Imagine instead if your boss FORCED you to work remote, how would you cope? Would you call them an idiot and quit on the spot? Gin would.

This is quite the strawman you've constructed

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foolm0r0n posted...

I understand. I'm saying that spinning around your chair is the most horrible way to communicate and the damage it causes your coworkers and company is one of the easiest things to demonstrate.

This...this is a joke right??
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Waluigi1 posted...

This...this is a joke right??

No shit, any idea that makes you feel uncomfortable is a joke
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Corrik7 posted...

Spoken like a true person who doesn't know what it is like to have children at home

Maybe you shouldn't have had so many babies that they have taken over your entire city and so the only possible place you can work in peace is an office 1 hour away.

Corrik is literally saying he would quit a job where he was forced to work remote. And 1 post later Gin says it's a strawman. Maybe he has Corrik ignored which is fair.
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I wish I could say I was surprised that foolmo would come in here and shit up my topic with his fucking nonsense but I'm not.
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apparently, "would prefer not to work at home" = "I will quit if I have to work at home"
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