Board 8 > Percussion Mafia Topic 6 - Sextuplet or Sixtuplet?

(+) Yeah! (+)

So, I want to point out that Chris said he didn't think Uwnim would claim motion detector as scum with puns on the team. Since puns has tried so hard to make that fetch happen and it isn't happening.

Me and death and so on agreed and confirmed Uwnim up as town ( I still believe he is town after saying this).

However, Chris failed to account for that fact that scum could not be fake claiming and just straight up have a Scum Motion Detector. So, that argument is off the table. Though I think it applies to Plum more than Uwnim in possibility.

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Speaking of Sultan, did he ever mention who he tracked yesterday?
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Hbthebattle posted...

Two people claiming two different motion-related milleresque roles makes me very suspicious.

Panthera's role legitimately hurts town to exist. But then again. Hyper bomb legitimately hurts scum to exist.

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Deaths claim conveniently covers for him making night actions as scum also while claiming not to move.

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Corrik7 posted...

Deaths claim conveniently covers for him making night actions as scum also while claiming not to move.

Panthera's does the same thing, though? If he's scum, he can easily cover up his movement as random while he really performs night actions.
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I always maintain that scanning roles on scum are often useless. Scum motion detector I right out cannot see happening.
Scumtracker at least tells scum who may be townpower, but even then I am inclined to believe Sultan.
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Hbthebattle posted...

Panthera's does the same thing, though? If he's scum, he can easily cover up his movement as random while he really performs night actions.

Panthera's claim is detrimental to town period.

Death's claim is convenient. I can't see how Panthera's claim is convenient when it straight up is a role to try and screw over town period.

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htaeD posted...

I always maintain that scanning roles on scum are often useless. Scum motion detector I right out cannot see happening.
Scumtracker at least tells scum who may be townpower, but even then I am inclined to believe Sultan.

They are put in to try and be confirming as town. Not to be useful to scum.

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Corrik7 posted...

Deaths claim conveniently covers for him making night actions as scum also while claiming not to move.

Panthera's does the same thing, except he claims his is trackable.

It's almost the same claim.

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Crescent-Moon posted...

Panthera's does the same thing, except he claims his is trackable.

It's almost the same claim.

I am going to make this clear for the 3rd time then I am going to get annoyed.

Deaths claim only affects people who target him specifically.

Panthera's claim affects potentially anyone in the game.

Thus even if all motion detector are legit, you can never trust any of their results anyways because if it appears damning it could always be panthera unknowingly went there.

Panthera's role is detrimental to town period. It is a town fuck you role. His role could only be neutralized to not fuck town if he had the tracker follow him literally every night.

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No. They are not the same thing. Not even close. Panthera's is a town fuck you role. It is a detriment to town. And it is predicated solely on RNG which good hosts don't use.

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Its more a matter of I don't see it as a reason to suspect Death more of the two when the other claim is suspect for similar reasons and Panthera is a more suspect player than Death is.

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Crescent-Moon posted...

Its more a matter of I don't see it as a reason to suspect Death more of the two when the other claim is suspect for similar reasons and Panthera is a more suspect player than Death is.

I didn't say Death was more suspect. I said deaths role is very convenient. I said Panth is in my three to Lynch today.

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I mean we also seemingly have 2 motion detectors. But the claim is not even the biggest thing against Panth.
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Death's claim seems to fit in with the assumption I'm now working on that the motion detectors aren't meant to be very useful, if both of us can mess with them they're more of a red herring than anything. Which probably leans more to both being town and the whole thing being a giant meta trap.

Scare's behavior is giving off real strong "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes right now because Corrik meta'ing how he phrased getting results is absurd but his frustration seems put on. It's still hard to see why he sets up his claim the way he did as scum though only to seem so agitated that he had to actually claim it though. But I don't know why a town cop ends up being untargetable legitimately, which he has to be unless both Tange and HB are lying to try to torpedo him which is not very plausible.

MZero claiming deathproof is really hard to buy with Lea existing and vice versa. I don't remember if MZero had any reaction to her shenanigans earlier, I'll try to remember to look it up when I can. One of them should probably be lynched today just because one of them is like 99% sure to be scum and the town one seemingly faces no risk of truly dying anyway unless MZero was the cause for no kill N1, which seems unlikely.

Oh and Crescent get out of here with that inactive crap. I don't need to slavishly follow the game every chance I can and drive myself crazy in the process like I used to to be playing mafia, I can show up for a few stretches per day, get my thoughts out about the important stuff and try to be here at deadline and still be doing just fine. And you know damn well you're being disingenuous as hell trying to make a fuss about me not having posted much in topics 4-6 when the entirety of topic 5 came in the first three hours of this day before I actually got here.

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Panthera, do good hosts make games with RNG roles? Yes or no?

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Corrik7 posted...

Panthera, do good hosts make games with RNG roles? Yes or no?

If their goal is to make a balanced setup that feels fair and sane? There's a couple of exceptions, like Detective RNG, but generally no.

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Panthera posted...

If their goal is to make a balanced setup that feels fair and sane? There's a couple of exceptions, like Detective RNG, but generally no.

Do you consider Han a good host?

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Actually it was topics 3-6. You've done essentially nothing since day 1.

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Corrik7 posted...

Do you consider Han a good host?

I don't pay enough attention to these kinds of things to judge for myself. I know he's generally considered to know what he's doing.

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Crescent-Moon posted...

Actually it was topics 3-6. You've done essentially nothing since day 1.

Then go badger Han about replacing/modkilling me and if he agrees you won't have to worry about me

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Panthera posted...

I don't pay enough attention to these kinds of things to judge for myself. I know he's generally considered to know what he's doing.

Then why would you expect anyone to not want to lynch you?

Especially when even if you are legit, your role is a negative town role and it still benefits town to lynch it. (Especially when ahead due to the no night kill).

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I mean, the only reason to not lynch you would be that your play was so overwhelmingly town and insightful to make up for the detriment of your role. Yet, you haven't really done that either... and you know full well... that I hold you in high esteem as a town player for figuring things out and making logical, sound arguments. You are null and void this game in that.

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Death's role doesn't negate any possible results that a motion detector has if they are town for the entire game. Yours does.

There is a major difference in the two.

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Corrik7 posted...

Then why would you expect anyone to not want to lynch you?

Especially when even if you are legit, your role is a negative town role and it still benefits town to lynch it. (Especially when ahead due to the no night kill).

I don't expect anyone to not find my role questionable, especially since I wasn't here for before the semi-mass claim started.

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Why didn't you claim day 1 when possibly about to be lynched?

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Panthera posted...

Then go badger Han about replacing/modkilling me and if he agrees you won't have to worry about me

DYL is still in the game..

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Crescent, can you stop being annoying about activity. Take a note from Red's stupid inactivity policing day 2.


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Corrik7 posted...

Death's role doesn't negate any possible results that a motion detector has if they are town for the entire game. Yours does.

There is a major difference in the two.

There are two claimed motion detectors, a claimed tracker, a claimed cop and a claimed detective. None claim to be roleblocked directly even though one claimed day 1 and another claimed day 2 (and the detective hinted at having power day 2). The only sign of roleblocking is that the cop is apparently untargetable unless HB and/or Tange are lying about it, with HB being the only claimed protection. Either something is up with the power claims or there's reasons why they're not as useful as they seem, which either boils down to scum having reason to not worry about them or town having roles that undermine them. Red being a flavour cop in a game where flavour doesn't seem to matter already points to the latter. My role undermines the motion detectors, but can only affect one at a time unless they pick the same target, while the more useful roles are mostly unaffected (tracker can see me move but I can't interfere with it tracking anyone else). It's obvious to me that not everything claimed can be legit without there being something to undermine it

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Panthera posted...

My role undermines the motion detectors, but can only affect one at a time unless they pick the same target

Wrong.

And, this is where your theory falls apart.

The reason Death's isn't a town detriment is because it only messes with them if they specifically target him.

The problem with yours is... that every single motion detector result is in question no matter on who, no matter how many motion detectors there are and different targets... because you say you RNG to a person and DON'T KNOW who the person is.

Which means, you could have fucked with any of their scans and can't say reliably which one you did. So, you have to question all of them.

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Corrik7 posted...

Why didn't you claim day 1 when possibly about to be lynched?

I didn't want to out myself as useless/detrimental unless it was really necessary, especially after someone (Lea, I think) seemed to think I was hinting at power. I got busy heading up to deadline so I wasn't thinking it through beyond sticking to what I had already decided and I missed the tiebreaker entirely.

Crescent-Moon posted...

DYL is still in the game..

So is your slot but here you are

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Death's claim would be very convenient for a scum claim. (Unless the tracker tracked him).

Your role though... it literally doesn't even make sense to exist all the way around.

The ONLY SAVING GRACE for your role to exist is that Scum Hyper Bomb was just as anti-Scum as this role is for town.

Literally the only saving grace.

Nothing else about your role makes any sense at all to exist.

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Corrik7 posted...

Wrong.

And, this is where your theory falls apart.

The reason Death's isn't a town detriment is because it only messes with them if they specifically target him.

The problem with yours is... that every single motion detector result is in question no matter on who, no matter how many motion detectors there are and different targets... because you say you RNG to a person and DON'T KNOW who the person is.

Which means, you could have fucked with any of their scans and can't say reliably which one you did. So, you have to question all of them.

No, I only directly affect one of them (assuming they have different targets). They don't know which one or if I did, which does undermine both of them, but in this current scenario where both are claimed I can't be affecting both, which does at least partially narrow things down. And obviously a no motion result like Uwnim on DYL last night is legit regardless. I'm not arguing my role isn't a detriment to town, only the extent to which it is. It doesn't render motion detector 100% useless, only like...75% or so. Maybe a bit less if both are town.

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Its impossible not to affect both. Any detection of movement from a motion detector claim is suspect. Even if both claims say they detect movement, your claim means we cannot trust either result.

The only result that can be trusted is a result of no movement.

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Panthera posted...

They don't know which one or if I did, which does undermine both of them

So, you affect all of them by simply existing.

Which is the point. You literally existing affects the reliability on them. The only way we know you didn't affect them is if they say that they saw no activity. Which means anything damning they could possibly uncover if town is null and void while you exist because you possibly could have.


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Corrik7 posted...

Which is the point. You literally existing affects the reliability on them. The only way we know you didn't affect them is if they say that they saw no activity. Which means anything damning they could possibly uncover if town is null and void while you exist because you possibly could have.

No motion is still a useful result. A no motion result on anyone who has claimed not to move is essentially a guilty scan.

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I think panth is town because of this post by puns at the end of day 1

turbopuns3 posted...

Corrik just vote panth goodness

I don't think puns scrambles to get scum onto the other scum as messanger. There is no way panth is a less powerful role than that. He would be angling for a tie in order to possibly swing to a third party

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So, let's say the Motion Detector saw Lea went somewhere last night. Everyone in the game says they didn't go to her.

We know the Motion detector in this scenario is town.

Then you have this claim.

We now have to gamble that the 1 in 15 chance that you didn't wander to lea didn't happen this game. And, if it did... it could make us lose the game by inflicting a costly mislynch on us to cost the game.

This is why good hosts don't put RNG roles into games. Games shouldn't be won or lost based on numerical odds.

Which is why it is likely your role is fake.

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Hey corrik bud

we have a hyperbomb in here already. That's already huge RNG. This isn't a serious game

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masterplum posted...

Hey corrik bud

we have a hyperbomb in here already. That's already huge RNG. This isn't a serious game

Hyperbomb is not RNG. But it is a detrimental to scum role as it forces a 1 for 1 at best for scum.

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Corrik7 posted...

Hyperbomb is not RNG. But it is a detrimental to scum role as it forces a 1 for 1 at best for scum.

Hyperbomb is extreme RNG. Doctor just happens to be the first to vote and town is screwed. Bombproof happens to be the first to vote and Scum is screwed

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masterplum posted...

Hey corrik bud

we have a hyperbomb in here already. That's already huge RNG. This isn't a serious game

Hyper bomb is technically not RNG, though in practice it's way more volatile than my role

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masterplum posted...

Hyperbomb is extreme RNG. Doctor just happens to be the first to vote and town is screwed. Bombproof happens to be the first to vote and Scum is screwed

Host doesn't random who votes it.

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There is a slight amount of potential to hyper bomb and Ben could've played hyper bomb a lot better.

Stay off the grid, counterclaim the first town power claim, and boom.

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Potential strategy is what I meant to write.

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Crescent-Moon posted...

There is a slight amount of potential to hyper bomb and Ben could've played hyper bomb a lot better.

Stay off the grid, counterclaim the first town power claim, and boom.

Explode when someone votes you for not first post claiming mason buddies with Scare

There's no way it wasn't expected to go off super early with only minimal influence from Ben himself. That's just not how b8 rolls

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Chris' gift makes it sound like the chance was considered.
On the other hand: day1 usually sees almost every player get voted. Plus why would anyone hand out bombproof first, and not one of the better gifts?
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So does b8 randomly vote the majority of players very quickly now? People not getting votes until things get a bit more serious shouldn't be unusual. Being able to be more strategic with it and try to either blow up town or day kill someone like town Chris where he can't be protected is the sort of thing I'd think would be possible. Any role that has a set effect and its activation is solely determined by player activity isn't really random.

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uwnim posted...

So does b8 randomly vote the majority of players very quickly now? People not getting votes until things get a bit more serious shouldn't be unusual. Being able to be more strategic with it and try to either blow up town or day kill someone like town Chris where he can't be protected is the sort of thing I'd think would be possible. Any role that has a set effect and its activation is solely determined by player activity isn't really random.

We usually spend the first hour or so of a game joking around with a lot of votes flying around for little reason

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Just to confirm, both Uwnim and Plum claim the same roles(Motion Tracker) and Sultan claims regular tracker yes?
Tange claims he got a cop scan from Chris and Scare himself claims cop. Do we really have this much scanning power?

Really don't like people trying to shade Tange, Chris is smart enough to not go HEY EVERYONE, I GAVE THIS PLAYER THE ABILITY TO COP SCAN SOMEONE <<<<<<<< on day freaking 1. Tange hinted at having something day 1, which I don't see him doing if he indeed was given just a cowbell.

HB claiming roleblocked Tange claiming he targeted Scare with failed. I don't understand either. And Tange is detective, another scanning....

Honestly scum has to be hiding in one of the scanning claims, just a matter at looking at which doesn't hold under scrutiny.

HB claims jack with two protection abilities. If he's telling the truth, and he truly was roleblocked, then scum probably scanned him night 1.

Panthera claims Town Drunk.

I feel like this should have been claimed way sooner. Puns almost got away day 1, you'd think claiming that day makes it much more likely. There was no guarantee that people would go off you at the end there.

This plays with all the tracking claims though.

MZero claiming deathproof, which I'm not sure I believe. Especially with his "I don't know if I'm shot at night" claim. You'd also think he'd be more, you know, aggressive since he essentially makes scum waste a day on him. He's basically claiming a stronger version of Lea. One of them is lying, and unfortunately either have given me much confidence to call them town(Though Lea was actually scanned)

Death claiming... noisemaker? Another false info claim. Though less screwy since he doesn't mess with the motion detectors if he himself isn't targeted.

##Unvote: Balla

Half of these claims feel fake. Two motion detector claims, two lynchproof(and more for MZero) claims, two pseudomiller claims from Panthera and Death. The sheer amount of fuckery in this game is outstanding. Going to fully look over all the claims once this headache goes away.


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