Board 8 > B8's Greatest Wrestler Ever Ranking (Voting)

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is a ranking topic to decide who Board 8 thinks are the greatest pro wrestlers of all time! This is based on whatever things you think makes someone the greatest: wrestling ability, promo skills, overness, longevity, whatever. This is intended to be best wrestler and not favorite wrestler.

Only restriction is they must be real world pro wrestlers, no video game, anime, etc characters.

Each person can submit a Top 25 ranking going from 25 points for the best down to just 1 point for the bottom of your list. You do not need to fill out the full list but it is encouraged. PM your ranking to this account and I will add up the lists and post the results.

Deadline will be end of the day on Sunday June 14th.

Easy Vote Form:
+25
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+19
+18
+17
+16
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+1

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+25 Tetsuya Naito
+24 Kazuchika Okada
+23 Chris Jericho
+22 CM Punk
+21 Hiroshi Tanahashi
+20 Shawn Michaels
+19 Stone Cold Steve Austin
+18 Kenny Omega
+17 Samoa Joe
+16 Kevin Owens
+15 Seth Rollins
+14 Bret 'The Hitman' Hart
+13 The Undertaker
+12 Ric Flair
+11 'Freshly Squeezed' Orange Cassidy
+10 Edge
+9 The Rock
+8 Kota Ibushi
+7 Will Ospreay
+6 Hiromu Takahashi
+5 'King of Darkness' EVIL
+4 BUSHI
+3 Shingo Takagi
+2 'Cold Skull' SANADA
+1 'The One Man Band' Heath Slater

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That works.

Though I prefer PMs for the suspense.

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list submitted... I apologize to everyone

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6 votes are in and we already have 100 different wrestlers nominated!

This confirms that the final list will be a Top 100, though I will make note of those who missed the cut.

Its going to be a wild list.

You can still make changes, just make sure to PM me before Sunday.

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6 people... 100 wrestlers ... yikes that is some variety

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so we're going for objectivity? hmmm

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Whoops sorry. PMing you.

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Cool
Tag

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Tom Bombadil posted...

so we're going for objectivity? hmmm

That was the idea. Figure I can do a favorites later.

Though I have a feeling PWI will defintiely not agree with this list lol.

And yeah there been a ton of variety so far.

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So yesterday I put out a call on twitter for who people consider the #1 of all time. My plan is to go through them all today and make a relatively objective case for each for everyone to weigh up. think this whole thing is way more fun if we have some discussion beforehand

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Ric Flair
Let's start with an obvious one - a 40 year career, one of the best in the world for around half of that, on top of the business for close to the same, and never less than a major star afterwards. Ruled the entire decade of the 1980s being maybe the greatest example of the touring world champion staple of the territory days - going to each territory of the NWA, having a great match with the local guy to make the local guy look a star, and moving on. But the late 80s is where you find Flair's most legendary work - the match that made Sting a star, the Steamboat trilogy which is truly work a decade ahead of it's time in North America, and the pair of matches with Terry Funk. The 90s has the all time best Royal Rumble performance, and there's no doubt he remains one of WCW's top performers throughout most of its run upon his return. His final WWF run isn't littered with amazing matches but he never became less than great, and his final match with Shawn Michaels was a fitting end to such an amazing career. A slam dunk

+ Longevity
+ Legendary matches
+ Legendary character and promo
+ Big draw
- You can go some fairly long stretches after 92 without any truly great Flair matches

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I will do this but yeah it's gonna take some time and discussion probably.

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Bryan Danielson
Joseph Montecillo makes the case for Bryan better than I ever will here, if you have an hour to check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZWVPdCYKrU

That said, i'll try anyway. To me the case for Bryan is diversity - indeed, when I was thinking through this list of names I only had one name who paralleled him for diversity - we'll get to that later. In Bryan's case, there's technical classics with Nigel McGuinness to Chris Hero, wild brawls with Takeshi Morishima, shoot style matches with Roderick Strong to Drew Gulak, legendary matches in every size arena from pubs to football stadiums, a legendary match at Mania 30 with HHH as a babyface and then another as a heel at Mania 35 with Kofi. Even in 2020 he's adding feathers to his cap with some great empty arena performances and a WWE MOTY contender with Gulak.

It's a shame that his style led to his career being shortened, especially with it hitting him right at the peak of the business. If Bryan had a world title run in 2014, he'd likely have an even stronger case. The best work of his career for my money is as ROH Champion, as he carried himself as a champion and a serious threat better than Vince McMahon would ever imagine someone his size capable of. But the sacrifices Daniel Bryan made to be great weren't in vain - he's undoubtedly one of the best ever.

Matches (god help me):
American Dragon vs. Christopher Daniels vs. Low Ki - Feb 23 2002 (ROH - The Era of Honor Begins)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x53qmxl

Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - May 11 2005 (ROH Vendetta)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av5070531/

Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong - Mar 31 2006 (Supercard of Honor)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av22352598/

ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death - Bryan Danielson, Ace Steel, Adam Pearce, BJ Whitmer, Homicide & Samoa Joe vs. Chris Hero, Claudio Castagnoli, Eddie Kingston, Nate Webb & Necro Butcher - Jul 15 2006 (Death Before Dishonor IV)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av16900410/

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - Aug 12 2006 (Unified)
https://vimeo.com/243003979

Bryan Danielson vs. KENTA - Sep 16 2006 (Glory by Honor V)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOrl73UPrzY

Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide - Dec 23 2006 (Final Battle 2006)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av13414922/

Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Aug 25 2007 (Manhattan Mayhem II)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHy6swAxsYA

Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr. - Mar 2 2008 (Wrestling in Coventry)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DlXy4FIumk

Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - Mar 9 2008 (wXw 16 Carat Gold Night 3 - Final)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av16462390/

Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - Nov 22 2008 (Rising Above)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av12210281/

Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima - Dec 27 2008 (Final Battle 2008) - Fight Without Honor
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7r7z6u

Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero - Sep 4 2009 (PWG Guerre Sans Frontires)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av12138397/

Bryan Danielson vs. Naruki Doi - Sep 6 2009 (DGUSA Open The Untouchable Gate)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av7554969/

Bryan Danielson vs. SHINGO - Jul 24 2010 (DGUSA Enter The Dragon 2010)
https://www.bilibili.com/video/av5587101/

Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho - Feb 23 2010 (WWE NXT)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnKwgWVoYhc

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - Apr 29 2012 (WWE Extreme Rules) - 2/3 Falls
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3xq1dc

Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk - May 20 2012 (WWE Money in the Bank)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1axcec

Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback vs. Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins - Dec 16 2012 (WWE TLC)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xybxnv

Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena - Aug 18 2013 (WWE Summerslam)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2aom6x

Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H - Apr 6 2014 (WWE Wrestlemania)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4brtc1

Daniel Bryan vs. Brock Lesnar - Nov 18 2018 (WWE Survivor Series)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xf379

Daniel Bryan vs. Kofi Kingston - Apr 7 2019 (WWE Wrestlemania)
(network.wwe.com I GUESS LOL)

god damn i didn't mean to go that long


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ok i'm gonna go watch all those now see you all in july

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Bryan is one I don't weigh near as heavy as others but I also didnt come to appreciate him til he was mostly gone because of how fucking annoying much of his wwe run was.


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(Which is by the way gonna be the biggest knock on someone else who absolutely deserves mention here, Jerry Lawler.)

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Eddv posted...

(Which is by the way gonna be the biggest knock on someone else who absolutely deserves mention here, Jerry Lawler.)

I mean, sure, he wasn't a world champion in WWF - which he absolutely could and should have been considering what was going on in that era - but still in 93 and 94 he's one of the most compelling characters on the show and has several of the highlights of the year. I think his WWF run is a bit underrated. Nowhere near as underrated though, as his career as a whole will end up on this list.

Eddv posted...

Bryan is one I don't weigh near as heavy as others

Also I felt this way until writing that post lol

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I mean he was doing angles with midgets and was doing like Santino tier comedy half the time.


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I'm all for Steiner or others giving reminders of all time greats to give the best people the best chances.

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Allow me to make the case for....

Dr Wagner

I realize Lucha is the red headed step child among American fans of wrestling but Dr Wagner fucking slays. Wagner has the longevity of your Ric Flairs and Terry Funks. He has an engaging violent style and even in this late stage of his career is delivering classic brutal dramatic matches

+Longevity, including a good 12 year peak from 1998-2010 and a great post-peak run as well.
+Master of High Drama and high stakes
+Big Draw (only isnt #1 in Mexican history thanks to Mistico eclipsing him during his drawing peak)
+Builds his resume with solid matches throughout
- A lot of his supposed best matches occurred in CMLL trios and weren't well preserved.
- Outside of his biggest matches he phones it in.
- Like other famously great workers he missed some of his best potential matches by being unwilling to work programs that ever made him look weak.

vs Blue Demon Jr Mask vs Hair Triplemania 27 (2019)

This match was explicitly about Legacy building on the success of the next match down. The most famous mask in wrestling put on the line against the man who was being called the greatest luchadore of his generation. It's dramatic. It has hammers. It has a thousand run ins and it just fucking works.
https://youtu.be/9cPp49xz8bI

vs Psycho Clown Triplemania 25 Mask vs Mask (2017)
This is the match that basically saved AAA and was the most streamed wrestling match. The match pulled an absurd 22.8 rating on television, eclipsing even McGregor vs Mayweather so from the beginning it was always going to be an absurd spectactle. And honestly? The rest of this Triplemania was horrible with a huge scandal as Sexy Star tried to maim Rosemary. But the drama was palpable and this is a stand alone must see classic. Again he is 51 here and just fucking delivers.
https://youtu.be/7qy58clReak

vs El Mesias (AAA Mega-Championship) Triplemania 17
Perhaps Wagner's most famously great match, it marked his return to AAA after a long period with CMLL, Wagner came in with Swagger demanding his spot at the top. The match is an epic that needs almost no context to be great and led to a 6 month run by Wagner marked by nothing but great matches with the likes of Mesias and Cibernetico.
https://youtu.be/XUCEljKbtT8

vs Koji Kanemoto Best of Super Jrs 1998
The match that made Wagner famous
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7fi8uo

vs Jushin Liger CMLL 1992
A pre-peak look at Wagner
https://youtu.be/sRjESmOukcE

There are great matches of him out there with Ultimo Guerrero, Atlantis, Cibernetico, Silver King, Mistico and Emilio Charles Jr as well as a few more with Liger.


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hell yes i'd love other people doing some of the work here

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i'm gonna try to run off another 2 or 3 of those by the end of today - if anyone else is interested in doing a profile for a heavy hitter drop me a message so i don't start working on them

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Here's my justifications for my list:

I could only name 25 wrestlers.

I hope this shows the rigorous due diligence that is required of this fine competition.

does that mean if we name ones you forgot you'd reconsider

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meanwhile I'm over here debating if my lack of puro/lucha experience means I should sit out

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Only if they're better than WCW superstar and cruiserweight legend Alex Wright, which is impossible.

Disco Inferno

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did you consider

dragon dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lq-s_eQ0iI

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Why wouldn't they both already be on the list

Tom Bombadil posted...

meanwhile I'm over here debating if my lack of puro/lucha experience means I should sit out

I mean then I would have to sit out and I'm running the thing.

You are definitely part of B8s wrestling community so you should definitely take part.

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Mitsuharu Misawa

In America in the 80s there was Ric Flair and the Big Gold Belt, the NWA World's Heavyweight Championship. In Japan in the 90s, there was Misawa and the AJPW Triple Crown Championship. The title was born in 1989, and a year on in the summer of 1990, Tiger Mask II would unmask and begin his ascent to that title, as the legend of Misawa was born. He would immediately wrestle the company's current Ace, Jumbo Tsuruta, in one of the greatest matches of all time, a match that would be pointed to as the birth of the King's Road style - a style that would become the dominant style wrestled around the world to this day, and which would produce a slew of the best matches of all time.

He wouldn't win the Triple Crown championship until 1992, but by that time the era of Misawa was already in full swing. It would be at the beginning of this reign that he'd first face his tag team partner, Toshiaki Kawada, which would kick off maybe the greatest rivalry of all time, as the pair would face off in not only numerous singles matches, but legendary tag team matches as well with Misawa teaming with Kenta Kobashi to take on Kawada and Akira Taue.

He'd continue having great matches with the other 4 Pillars of Heaven, as they would come to be known, and also the gaijins like Stan Hansen, Steve Williams and Terry Gordy, all through the 90s, holding the Triple Crown championship for 1799 days over his 5 reigns (that's 26 days short of being half the decade!) and in the process making that known as the most prestigious title in the sport.

As the 90s ends, so too does Misawa's time with AJPW, and he leaves to form the new promotion NOAH, which would go on to be the biggest wrestling company in Japan for the first part of the millennium, due in large part to Misawa himself as the top star. He would go on to have more legendary matches in NOAH - most notably another "GOAT" candidate in the epic singles match with Kenta Kobashi in 2003.

Between forming NOAH, being so heavily responsible for the king's road style, and carrying All Japan through so much of the 90s, I personally think his influence/draw arguments are in the very top tier. His in ring catalogue is thick with blowaway matches, but it could be argued he doesn't have the diversity of many of the other candidates here - neither in match style or opponent. But what he did was amazingly successful, continues to be successful today, and it's hard to think of anybody better at their craft than Misawa was at his.

26.05.1990 - Akira Taue, Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Masanobu Fuchi & The Great Kabuki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg8KoSf_fCg

08.06.1990 - Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsMQi6B7WuA

01.09.1990 - Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkIqqTcjmSA

19.10.1990 -
Akira Taue, Jumbo Tsuruta & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x56cwfj

20.04.1991 -
Akira Taue, Jumbo Tsuruta & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaO3Y1RXofo

05.06.1992 - Akira Taue & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UPdzau_0eQ

21.10.1992 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ3-bKWTpCY

01.06.1993 - Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tie-bsq1HPA

03.12.1993 - Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW18bPdcH7A

21.05.1994 - Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xl3j1s

03.06.1994 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada - This is the first match Dave Meltzer rated 6 stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUVA5qchql0

15.04.1995 - Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il3kWE0zO4E

09.06.1995 - Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (Widely called the greatest tag match of all time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2OLvGT5ROU

31.10.1998 - Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naZNvWwRYiM

11.06.1999- Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rYpK3EoqWI

01.03.2003 - Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARcmU_oTO6k

+ Hugely influential
+ Huge draw
+ Has highest peaks of maybe everybody on the list
- Narrow range of opponents
- Basically worked one style ever since unmasking

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Can we nomations Ewwl wrestlers case I nomations Tornadoman

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Kind of want to vote, but I dont know much wrestling history (coming in during the Summer of Punk, I think).

I don't want to be a Justin Watry.


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This vote is meant to be a snapshot of our views.

There's only a handful of historians in our ranks so the results will reflect that (and even then while I think objectively Santo and Bruno and Baba belong in a list like this I didn't include them because I am simply not well enough versed)

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Steiner posted...

did you consider

dragon dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lq-s_eQ0iI

So agile.

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There... are a few people objectively that do deserve to be on here, but... I can't really separate the out of ring from in of ring from those people. And some personal bias against in one case for one of the people I have in the single digits.

It was hard enough not putting Jake Roberts higher. @_@'

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Yeah there is a certain level where you just cant be objective

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oh i don't have the energy for more writeups today but luckily i'm off work tomorrow and can bash out a bunch before I try to vote on Sunday

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is it because i've got caught up watching the bryan matches? who can say

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+25 Milo of Croton

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Tomohiro Ishii

Naturally, in modern NJPW, it's easy to point out the high caliber of work exemplified by modern legends of the business such as Tanahashi and Okada. It's easy to overlook the hard-hitting action of Tomohiro Ishii, who I think has the ability to pull out a good match from nearly any worker. Gedo has cultivated an extremely gifted roster, one that has developed deep-running chemistry in almost every match-up, but I think it's important to note that of all of the talent in NJPW, one of the hardest workers is Tomohiro Ishii.

Ishii's style is simple, and that tends to belie his actual versatility. His reliability as a workhorse has allowed him to come across as a natural underdog against the giants and main eventers of the company, but he can work on top with young lions or juniors just as easily as the top talent in the company. Ishii's style of selling is built on nuanced no-selling until a particular peak point of a match. His facial expressions do it all. Even Okada doesn't have the range of Ishii when Ishii needs to denote rage or pain. Strong and silent, Ishii is able to rise above the crazy hair styles, flashy outfits and trademarked catchphrases over others in the industry thanks to his ability to convey the realism of his matches.

Here are a few of my personal favorite Ishii matches, and hopefully they help convey why I think, in terms of the best wrestlers in the world, he belongs among their ranks:

Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii - G1 Climax 23 Day 4
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Mx411q7Sc

Tomohiro Ishii vs. Taichi - New Japan Cup 2019 Day 5
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1jb411H7zj

Tomohiro Ishii vs. Shingo Takagi - G1 Climax 29 Day 16
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Ut411N78v

Tomohiro Ishii vs. Kenny Omega - G1 Climax Day 14
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1As411G7q6

Jon Moxley vs. Tomohiro Ishii - G1 Climax 2019 Day 6
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Bt411n79S

Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Tomohiro Ishii - G1 Climax 26 Day 11
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1RW41197s2

I admit this isn't close to exhaustive, but if you're looking for someone to add to your list, consider my pick for the best brawler in wrestling history.

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scarletspeed7 posted...

Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii - G1 Climax 23 Day 4
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Mx411q7Sc

could have left it here, the best sprint in wrestling history, one of my favourite matches of all time and the easiest match to show people who aren't into japanese wrestling and have them go, "holy shit, this is different"

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Figured I would essentially highlight two men I consider to be the best at the two most important components of being a professional wrestler. Went with in-ring work first, and now I'm going to compile a few promos from the best storyteller to ever grace the squared circle.

Jake Roberts

Jake Roberts is the greatest promo in the history of wrestling. In a world of shouting and retreading overused catchphrases, Jake Roberts would put on quiet clinics of true psychology, barely whispering his brilliant turns of perspective with cold smiles and dead eyes. In fact, Roberts is the most nuanced storyteller behind a mic of any wrestler I've ever seen. This is especially obvious in a world of 80s and 90s WWF where cartoon characters shout bullhorn platitudes.

Roberts perfected and popularized the DDT as well, and such a commonplace move was, in his time, a devastating - and over - technique. It's rare to see a character who isn't the top babyface getting chants for their finisher, but Jake could turn massive arenas into his personal chorus. From the moment he would hit the ring, heel or face, fans wanted to see that DDT. In fact, it's been said multiple times that Vince wouldn't put Jake against Hogan in a main event feud because his finisher was too over. It would likely diminish the fans' desire to see Hogan win.

These votes are about wrestlers, and I know that Jake's personal life filled with addiction for some reason gets dragged into his wrestling career. For me, voting here is solely about the body of work, and no wrestler has the quality of promo that Jake has. Often imitated, inspiring dozens of your favorites, Jake has never truly been reduplicated. It's in that dark intensity that Jake finds the source of his charisma, and he relishes in it, taking all of us on a thrill-ride into a shadowy place called his soul.

Jake Tells Ultimate Warrior a Story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC9QUUAcMH0

The Cage Promo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf-Lopw3M1E

Jake Roberts on Ricky Steamboat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipU4-Gp7N94

Jake Roberts, A Common Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEI81DATt5A

Jake Roberts "Gets Off on It":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d_YTsgGTnY

The Best Promo in AEW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqPF5FxCQlw

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jesus fucking christ, I forgot AmDrag

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Seeing Jake on AEW makes me wish so hard that more people would learn from his promo style.

It's just so good!

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ExThaNemesis posted...

jesus fucking christ, I forgot AmDrag

Corrections are allowed. Just let me know.

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Fixed and sent via PM.

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ExThaNemesis posted...

jesus fucking christ, I forgot AmDrag

aren't you in the crowd at that manhattan mayhem match? i just rewatched it yesterday and good fucking lord, what a match

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Bump for the weekend.

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