Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 307: Tulsa Staggered

(+) Yeah! (+)

And flawed slogan or not, support is rising

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/502267-support-for-black-lives-matter-doubles-since-2016-poll?amp
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The reason "All Lives Matter" is the counter slogan is because the people saying it don't give a shit about the hardships and violence leveled at black people, and they want to smugly make a statement that is true semantically, but carrying the underlying meaning that everyone is equal and thus black lives matter exactly as much as they should (which they don't).

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Corrik7 posted...

Anyways, this topic has been done at least 5 times already in the past. Nothing is going to change.

All I am saying is they would have broader support and be more able to pin opponents of the slogan as truly being racist if their slogan wasn't flawed. Because it is very hard to argue against Black Lives Matter Too without being racist. It is a pretty universally accepted message from the normal person.

it turns out its also very hard to argue against Black Lives Matter without being racist
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This is like a conversation I was having with an African-American man from work the other day about the anthem. He said it isn't about the flag. And, I said the problem though is you choosing to conduct the protest specifically during the anthem to the flag.

That say 50% agree with your cause. 30% would agree with your cause if you weren't disrespecting the flag in their eyes when protesting for your cause. And 2p% are gonna be like fuck you no matter what.

By simply protesting the cause without disrespecting the flag in their eyes, looting, or whatever. They would make your side 80% vs the 20%.

However, what we see is that 50% is like. Fuck you if you think it's about the flag cuz your a dumbass or a racist then. So you lose that 30% of support.

Granted some of you might be like who cares, but maybe it does matter. It's no different than with the flawed slogans.

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Jakyl25 posted...

And flawed slogan or not, support is rising

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/502267-support-for-black-lives-matter-doubles-since-2016-poll?amp

I bet it would be even higher if the Dallas shooting never happened and will plummet accordingly if a similar situation happens also

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"Yu should change your slogan, which is understandable to anyone who isn't being deliberately obtuse in an effort to mask their own racism, to something I--someone unaffected by the issues that spawned the Black Lives Matter movement--decide is okay to use. It's not like I give a shit either way, and if you DID change the slogan, I'd just argue all sorts of out-of-context statistics to ignore the idea behind the movement. But still, change the wording because easily-offended snowflakes can't read."

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Corrik7 posted...

That say 50% agree with your cause. 30% would agree with your cause if you weren't disrespecting the flag in their eyes when protesting for your cause. And 2p% are gonna be like f*** you no matter what.

By simply protesting the cause without disrespecting the flag in their eyes, looting, or whatever. They would make your side 80% vs the 20%.

How do you ever get change that way if 80% say they support your cause but only 50% ever do anything about it?

The entire point of protest is to be disruptive, to force the issue. If respect for the flag means more to you than the BLM message, you could never truly understand anyway
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also id say black lives matter is a response to a system that behaves as if they dont matter. If it was a response to someone saying white lives matter, then black lives matter too would make sense.

As a response to black lives dont matter, black lives matter too doesnt make sense because theres no statement establishing what the other lives that matter are. too makes the statement relative to something else, but its not meant to be a comparison.
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"Hmm, how should we try to mitigate the financial stress on Americans during a pandemic? Give them money they can use for their basic needs like food and housing?"

"No, let's give them money they can only use on vacation, explicitly incentivizing them to travel during said pandemic"

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1275229073871196160

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Corrik7 posted...

I bet it would be even higher if the Dallas shooting never happened and will plummet accordingly if a similar situation happens also

Cant you apply these same principles to support of the police?
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Like maybe support for the police would be higher if they didnt murder sometimes

And even you admit that police have unlawfully murdered people occasionally Corrik
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Jakyl25 posted...

How do you ever get change that way if 80% say they support your cause but only 50% ever do anything about it?

The entire point of protest is to be disruptive, to force the issue. If respect for the flag means more to you than the BLM message, you could never truly understand anyway

Well, that is what he argued in retort. He said for a protest to work you have to get eyes on it and by doing it controversially is the best way to get eyes on it. And, I responded well how can you argue that you can't understand how some can find it disrespectful if you admit yourself it was done purposely to be controversial to get eyes on it. Which he responded was a fair point.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Like maybe support for the police would be higher if they didnt murder sometimes

And even you admit that police have unlawfully murdered people occasionally Corrik

Of course. The police can commit crimes.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

"Hmm, how should we try to mitigate the financial stress on Americans during a pandemic? Give them money they can use for their basic needs like food and housing?"

"No, let's give them money they can only use on vacation, explicitly incentivizing them to travel during said pandemic"

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1275229073871196160

The worst part about this is that it's a 50% credit refund.

So you have to spend $8000 out of pocket now to get $4000 back at taxes, assuming you pay enough in taxes to get that much of a refund also. It's a horrible idea aimed to the rich.

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Corrik7 posted...

Of course. The police can commit crimes.

And unlike everyone else they have borderline immunity when they do it and are incredibly less likely to be held accountable.

Many people feel like this is a serious problem that requires significant reform.

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Corrik7 posted...

Well, that is what he argued in retort. He said for a protest to work you have to get eyes on it and by doing it controversially is the best way to get eyes on it. And, I responded well how can you argue that you can't understand how some can find it disrespectful if you admit yourself it was done purposely to be controversial to get eyes on it. Which he responded was a fair point.

You would hope those people who found it disrespectful would then listen and understand
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Corrik7 posted...

Of course. The police can commit crimes.

Ok so if youre saying BLM would have more support if someone didnt kill people at one of their events, then surely police would have more support if some police didnt kill people illegally.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Ok so if youre saying BLM would have more support if someone didnt kill people at one of their events, then surely police would have more support if some police didnt kill people illegally.

BLM surge happened because of the George Floyd thing, yes. It is a reactionary surge based on a single event, not on a systemic every day thing. It wouldn't have risen based on the Rayshard case.

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Jakyl25 posted...

You would hope those people who found it disrespectful would then listen and understand

The problem is the people saying "it isn't about the flag" aren't understanding the normal people who find it disrespectful for why they find it that way.

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I still don't even know why kneeling is seen as a disrespectful gesture here. It's seen as a gesture of respect in pretty much every other context. Keapernick chose it precisely in order to honor a request that he show respect!

I think the closest anyone in this topic has ever gotten to trying to answer this for me is, "You're asked to stand!" but I mean the flag isn't asking you to stand. If anything you're disrespecting the PA person by ignoring them.

What it is is different from the norm, which draws attention... which is the goal. It's supposed to make you ask why they're choosing that alternate means which is an opening for them to give you the message.

was raising a fist on the olympic podium disrespectful too?

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lmao calls for peaceful protest sure ended fast if we're back to people bitching over kneeling

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Well, that's because those calls were coming from people who don't actually mean "peaceful protest" they mean "protest in a way that can be made completely invisible to me so I don't have to think about, or even acknowledge, the issues you are trying to call attention to"

or y'know "shut up and dribble"

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LordoftheMorons posted...

"Hmm, how should we try to mitigate the financial stress on Americans during a pandemic? Give them money they can use for their basic needs like food and housing?"

"No, let's give them money they can only use on vacation, explicitly incentivizing them to travel during said pandemic"

https://twitter.com/StevenTDennis/status/1275229073871196160

Travel is a basic need.

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right up there with shelter and food

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xp1337 posted...

I still don't even know why kneeling is seen as a disrespectful gesture here. It's seen as a gesture of respect in pretty much every other context. Keapernick chose it precisely in order to honor a request that he show respect!

I think the closest anyone in this topic has ever gotten to trying to answer this for me is, "You're asked to stand!" but I mean the flag isn't asking you to stand. If anything you're disrespecting the PA person by ignoring them.

What it is is different from the norm, which draws attention... which is the goal. It's supposed to make you ask why they're choosing that alternate means which is an opening for them to give you the message.

was raising a fist on the olympic podium disrespectful too?

In the NFL, do you know what the most common response to somebody getting hurt on the field is?

To kneel.

Why is it considered respectful then but somehow super disrespectful during literally another part of the same event?

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Clean Air > Water > Internet > Travel > Food > Shelter > Healthcare > Education

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tbh if you can't get behind 'police not killing black people, especially unarmed black people' because someone kneeled... then I'm not sure it's really about the flag.

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Corrik7 posted...

The problem is the people saying "it isn't about the flag" aren't understanding the normal people who find it disrespectful for why they find it that way.

Why do you classify them as normal people? Meaning the people that do support the kneeling are not normal people?

Theres a lot of hidden bias in the way you speak
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Jakyl25 posted...

Why do you classify them as normal people? Meaning the people that do support the kneeling are not normal people?

Theres a lot of hidden bias in the way you speak

I think people who are saying the protests are purposely to disrespect the flag as their cause don't understand the protest. I am using normal in a very offhand way. Like, the "normal" person to me thinks protesting during the anthem to the flag is disrespectful. Not the cause.

It would be like protesting during a funeral or during a moment of silence.

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Ive found that people often kneel during funerals and moments of silence.

Oh god which ignored idiot is complaining about kneeling again. When will you people learn that some people just don't speak with good faith

Paratroopa1 posted...

Oh god which ignored idiot is complaining about kneeling again. When will you people learn that some people just don't speak with good faith

Because they know that the arguments aren't being made in good faith but still enjoy the feeling of being obviously smarter/better than a bigoted moron

It's a different kind of toxic behavior thst will never change

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https://twitter.com/briantylercohen/status/1275123036824338432?s=19

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Lots of missing posts so I'm sure one or more losers has gone on about something stupid, but I'm just now catching up here and you guys sure spent a long time going back and forth about Rogan when the reality is he's just a shitty disengenuous dude to who's annoying to listen to and exclusively appeals to people who go to superbowl parties at bars.

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https://twitter.com/jakesherman/status/1275385278505652225?s=21

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It's amazing how little respect people in this administration have for themselves. They'll do anything to try to cover for trump and then he opens his mouth and completely shits on whatever excuse they were trying to push. One would hope that they'd have all died of humiliation by now, but nope!

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As a veteran, I fully support kneeling as a peaceful protest.

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SSC has been deleted because the NYT threatened to doxx him.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/22/nyt-is-threatening-my-safety-by-revealing-my-real-name-so-i-am-deleting-the-blog/

Most of you fascists will cheer this I'm sure, but it still makes me sad...

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Never heard of ssc but given this is coming from you -

Fair, next. Nyt isn't a government entity, if the blogger can't stand behind their words and the consequences of them then they probably shouldn't have said the nazi shit that I'm assuming you followed them for.

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SmartMuffin posted...

SSC has been deleted because the NYT threatened to doxx him.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/22/nyt-is-threatening-my-safety-by-revealing-my-real-name-so-i-am-deleting-the-blog/

Most of you fascists will cheer this I'm sure, but it still makes me sad...

who?


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phrasing that as they threatened to doxx him makes it sound so much more sinister than the situation he described

but uh... who is this guy? what was he saying that makes you think we care either way about what happens with his blog?
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So what i've been able to gather is that the guy is a psychiatrist who has a blog and he has received death threats over the years because...reasons?

I'm not sure I follow that part, but his logic is that now that his last name will be "out there" his life will be at risk.

Here is a page about him and some of his views:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Alexander

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Personally I'm not sure where I stand. If it's truly a matter of his personal safety then maybe dont out him? But he's already public with his First and Middle name and the fact that he is a psychiatrist on the west coast so is he really that hard to track down for someone sufficiently motivated?

Or is it just an issue where he doesn't want to publicly stand by the things he's said online?

I think if he's received credible death threats then there is a case to keep his last name a secret. But again, a sufficiently motivated person should not have much difficulty with the information that's already available.

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SmartMuffin posted...

SSC has been deleted because the NYT threatened to doxx him.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/22/nyt-is-threatening-my-safety-by-revealing-my-real-name-so-i-am-deleting-the-blog/

Most of you fascists will cheer this I'm sure, but it still makes me sad...

This is the future libertarians want
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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1275375135483146241?s=21

What is this stream of consciousness rambling
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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1275375135483146241?s=21

What is this stream of consciousness rambling

A sailor was convicted and imprisoned for taking a photo of his submarine and sending it to family. Trump pardoned him. He says that what Hillary (and John Bolton) did was far worse.

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Jakyl25 posted...

This is the future libertarians want

"Gee, why might Muffin have become less libertarian and more explicitly right-wing? It must just be that he hates black people!" they said...

I had previously dramatically under-estimated just how much radical leftists had seized power in every major institution of society. If AnCap happened today, nearly all of us would be horribly oppressed, and quite likely killed.

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What is your lifetime political journey at this point?
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Here is a page about him and some of his views:

People don't hate him because of his views, which are basically standard progressive but a little bit skeptical of SJW stuff.

They hate him because he allows heterodox views in his comment section. He demands civility, but that's all. And since his blog is one of the few places on the internet where you are actually allowed to intelligently discuss otherwise taboo stuff, a lot of otherwise taboo stuff gets discussed there. And the thought police can't stand this. Scott isn't right-wing, but he won't ban you for being right-wing, which makes him a Nazi in the eyes of most of his immediate social circle (which is bay area tech nerds).

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Jakyl25 posted...

What is your lifetime political journey at this point?

Neocon - libertarian - ancap - far right

Note that I still think AnCap is the best system, but is unsuited to an environment utterly dominated by hostile actors who wish violent harm upon me due to my race, gender, and beliefs.

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SmartMuffin posted...

Neocon - libertarian - ancap - far right

Note that I still think AnCap is the best system, but is unsuited to an environment utterly dominated by hostile actors who wish violent harm upon me due to my race, gender, and beliefs.

You're a straight, white man. Your life is perfectly fine, snowflake.

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