Current Events > I don't understand... Why do people hate landlords and paying rent?

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averagejoel posted...

because two of those things (healthcare and housing) are basic necessities necessary to sustain life, and having an educated population that isn't also drowning in debt is in the best interest of any society

People across the globe maintain life without healthcare and housing so it's not a necessity to sustaining life, it is an addition that would make each life less stressful and I like the idea of that yet I wouldn't dare expect it to be free. No matter how you classify it why do you deserve the labors of others for free simply cause it would help your life be better?

Once again how are you expecting to make this all free without it severely hurting your average American? We have over 320 million people in this nation and you want to house, teach and give them medical aid all for free. While that certainly is virtuous please explain how that happens and tell me if you think that would cause immigration to possibly increase even more therefore forcing us to pay an ever increasing sum of taxes so that all these people may enjoy free things.

toomanymonikers posted...

People across the globe maintain life without healthcare and housing so it's not a necessity to sustaining life, it is an addition that would make each life less stressful and I like the idea of that yet I wouldn't dare expect it to be free. No matter how you classify it why do you deserve the labors of others for free simply cause it would help your life be better?

Once again how are you expecting to make this all free without it severely hurting your average American? We have over 320 million people in this nation and you want to house, teach and give them medical aid all for free. While that certainly is virtuous please explain how that happens and tell me if you think that would cause immigration to possibly increase even more therefore forcing us to pay an ever increasing sum of taxes so that all these people may enjoy free things.

as you see, it is not free. it is paid for by our taxes.

JustMyOpinion posted...

Best I can tell from a quick Google search is that 0.2% in the US are homeless. And my understanding is that there's usually two things that are highly correlated with that (hint: not money). So it seems we're doing not too terrible if it's a basic necessity.

how many people are 1 pay period away from being homeless? how many people are 2 pay periods away from being homeless?

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averagejoel posted...

anyway TC, it's not that we hate landlords. it's that we recognize the position as an inherently exploitative one

lol you were literally ecstatic that a landlord got decapitated this morning

Fam_Fam posted...

as you see, it is not free. it is paid for by our taxes.

Correct. I am asking what he thinks that will do to our taxes if healthcare, housing and schooling become free for over 320 million Americans. I already am losing a stupid amount of money to taxes, what happens if we make all that shit free for everyone?

toomanymonikers posted...

People across the globe maintain life without healthcare and housing so it's not a necessity to sustaining life

by this logic, having two hands is not necessary for playing the piano because Ravel wrote a piece for the left hand

it is an addition that would make each life less stressful and I like the idea of that yet I wouldn't dare expect it to be free. No matter how you classify it why do you deserve the labors of others for free simply cause it would help your life be better?

the people performing the labour necessary to produce and distribute such goods and services would still be compensated for their labour. there just wouldn't be a large for-profit industry built around lining the pockets of people who contribute nothing to this process

Once again how are you expecting to make this all free without it severely hurting your average American? We have over 320 million people in this nation and you want to house, teach and give them medical aid all for free. While that certainly is virtuous please explain how that happens and tell me if you think that would cause immigration to possibly increase even more therefore forcing us to pay an ever increasing sum of taxes so that all these people may enjoy free things.

make them public services, funded via taxes, rather than for-profit industries

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ToPoPO posted...

lol you were literally ecstatic that a landlord got decapitated this morning

google "joke definition" and tell me what you find

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averagejoel posted...

google "joke definition" and tell me what you find

so you laughing and being happy that a landlord got their head chopped off is a joke?

There are a lot of leeches in this topic. Everything is free.

Who the hell would rent out a property for razor thin profit? Dont like the cost, go live somewhere else or buy your own house.

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ToPoPO posted...

so you laughing and being happy that a landlord got murdered by having their head chopped off is a joke?

how did you arrive at the conclusion that I was laughing and being happy?

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averagejoel posted...

by this logic, having two hands is not necessary for playing the piano because Ravel wrote a piece for the left hand

So then are you telling me that your statement is 100% accurate, healthcare and housing are a necessity to sustaining human life, as such without it it would be impossible to survive?

You made a false claim as proven by the daily existence of those without either healthcare or housing, that's it.

averagejoel posted...

make them public services, funded via taxes, rather than for-profit industries

So if healthcare, housing and schooling are all free what's to stop me and millions of others from quitting our jobs and chilling in our free homes as we go to school for free while being medically protected as well??

I don't hate paying rent any more than literally anyone else who pays rent. The problem is landlords hold all the power in our relationship. They have the ability to bleed me dry of finances and kick me to the next wolf. Our system enables them to see us a profit and treat us as such.

Not every landlord succumbs to that power, but they all have that capability. And since many people are too poor to fight back in a meaningful way, they get away with their exploitation.

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toomanymonikers posted...

So then are you telling me that your statement is 100% accurate, healthcare and housing are a necessity to sustaining human life, as such without it it would be impossible to survive?

You made a false claim as proven by the daily existence of those without either healthcare or housing, that's it.

don't be obtuse. you know what I'm talking about. something being "necessary" to sustain life doesn't mean that someone will instantly die if they don't have it.

So if healthcare, housing and schooling are all free what's to stop me and millions of others from quitting our jobs and chilling in our free homes as we go to school for free while being medically protected as well??

serious question: are you legitimately this clueless or are you just trolling me?

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averagejoel posted...

don't be obtuse. you know what I'm talking about. something being "necessary" to sustain life doesn't mean that someone will instantly die if they don't have it

Then don't use the term 'necessity' if it isn't true. You are using extreme words to make a point but if your point falls flat knowing that billions of people live their lives without free healthcare, housing and schooling don't then declare it as a necessity, that's disingenuous.

averagejoel posted...

serious question: are you legitimately this clueless or are you just trolling me?

You didn't answer my serious question. What's to stop millions of Americans from not working knowing that they will have healthcare, housing and schooling given to them for free. Many Americans are content not working knowing that they will receive welfare so why wouldn't even more being content not working since all those things you listed will be given to them for free?

SwiggitySwoogit posted...

@hyperpowder doesn't understand how costs work.

My God you guys are saying the same shit like I dont understand there are cost involved. Jesus, you guys repeat yourselves just so you can sound smart.

Operational cost on apartments are on average 40 percent of the revenue. So yes their not making 280k, their "only" making 168k per month.

Fucking aye...

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toomanymonikers posted...

Then don't use the term 'necessity' if it isn't true. You are using extreme words to make a point but if your point falls flat knowing that billions of people live their lives without free healthcare, housing and schooling don't then declare it as a necessity, that's disingenuous.

calling housing and healthcare "necessities" is not extreme language. as I have already explained to you, "necessity" does not mean that you will immediately die without it.

You didn't answer my serious question.

I'm not going to. because it is not a legitimate question.

why are you more worried about hypothetical welfare queens than you are about the billionaires who don't pay their taxes, whose taxes could easily fund all these programs?

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averagejoel posted...

calling housing and healthcare "necessities" is not extreme language. as I have already explained to you, "necessity" does not mean that you will immediately die without it.

I'm not going to. because it is not a legitimate question.

why are you more worried about hypothetical welfare queens than you are about the billionaires who don't pay their taxes, whose taxes could easily fund all these programs?

Please answer my question

toomanymonikers posted...

Please answer my question

fine.

toomanymonikers posted...

What's to stop millions of Americans from not working knowing that they will have healthcare, housing and schooling given to them for free. Many Americans are content not working knowing that they will receive welfare and unemployment so why wouldn't even more be content not working since all those things you listed will be given to them for free?

people wanting to live on the social safety net is an indication not that said net is too generous, but that working is too unpleasant.

the answer is to improve the work experience, whatever that means. some ideas off the top of my head: increase pay, reduce hours, give people more holidays, give them more say in the tasks they carry out, make the labour itself more meaningful and more fulfilling, allow longer paid breaks during the work day, allot paid time specifically for the purpose of exercising, organize between different workplaces and different fields so that people can change jobs and prevent it from getting tedious.

now it's your turn to answer my question: why are you more concerned about hypothetical welfare queens than you are about the massive, very real amounts of public money and resources that go to lining the pockets of people who already have more money than they know what to do with?

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Landlords buy up all the housing and then bitch about having to pay all that mortgage and pretend that it's a job or something. They're leeches basically


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hyperpowder posted...

My God you guys are saying the same shit like I dont understand there are cost involved. Jesus, you guys repeat yourselves just so you can sound smart.

Operational cost on apartments are on average 40 percent of the revenue. So yes their not making 280k, their "only" making 168k per month.

Fucking aye...

40% is an incorrect figure, and even if it were right, its not the whole story. As noted earlier, operational expenses do not include property tax, acquisition costs, mortgage (which is typically the single biggest recurring expense), or capital expenditures (only the depreciation), all of which vary wildly but should be accounted for. The typical cash-on-cash profit ranges from 4-12%, not 60% like youre claiming. If investors could easily and reliably make 60% returns on apartments, then nobody would ever invest in other areas such as the stock market where historical returns are 7-8% pretax.

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Zano posted...

mortgage (which is typically the single biggest recurring expense)

Why do you guys always act like renters paying landlords mortgages isnt a massive net benefit for the landlords? Like, if I said you could use my PS5 for 1 month with the expectation that you pay half the cost of it to me, would you find that to be a fair and reasonable deal?

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Zano posted...

As noted earlier, operational expenses do not include property tax, acquisition costs, mortgage (which is typically the single biggest recurring expense), or capital expenditures (only the depreciation), all of which vary wildly but should be accounted for.

people have to account for those things if they own the house, regardless of whether or not they rent it out

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Think of rent as a tax (and in particular, a tax on not having the money to buy a home) and it's pretty easy to understand why people resent it.

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Shablagoo posted...

Why do you guys always act like renters paying landlords mortgages isnt a massive net benefit for the landlords? Like, if I said you could use my PS5 for 1 month with the expectation that you pay half the cost of it to me, would you find that to be a fair and reasonable deal?

??? Im not acting like anything. Simply stating facts. A typical commercial property (apartments) has a 25 year loan, but never actually pays its mortgage off because the standard commercial loan requires a balloon payment somewhere between years 5-10 and so the owner must refinance before then. Check any amortization schedule to see that the vast majority of the mortgage payments during the first years of a loan goes to interest, not principal reduction. Most of the value created by the eventual sale is from operational improvements from the owner or general appreciation of real estate.

Im not even going to respond to your over exaggerated example.

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averagejoel posted...

people have to account for those things if they own the house, regardless of whether or not they rent it out

Exactly, which is why we should include those items if we're going to have an honest discussion about the true cost of running an apartment complex or real estate ownership in general.

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Outside of a few exceptions where landlords are good people, there is an overwhelming amount of landlords that charge exorbitant prices for awful living conditions (see pretty much any run-down neighborhood in the USA) and do awful things like handyman repairs(unfinished, half-done solution) or showing up to your home randomly.

There's even cases where landlords pretty much breath over a tenant's neck and forbid them from cooking inside their own home and threaten them with the security deposit

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hey @toomanymonikers I answered your question and I expect an answer from you now

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averagejoel posted...

how did you arrive at the conclusion that I was laughing and being happy?

@ToPoPO

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averagejoel posted...

@ToPoPO

Saying nice and other crap gives the impression that you were glad that a landlord got murdered

ToPoPO posted...

Saying nice and other crap gives the impression that you were glad that a landlord got murdered

first of all, there was no "other crap" -- I posted a single word. I suggest you learn what a joke is.

second: you didn't actually answer the question. where did you get the impression that I was "laughing"?

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toomanymonikers posted...

People across the globe maintain life without healthcare and housing so it's not a necessity to sustaining life,

I got a bit of a feeling that these people live in communities that have existed for thousands of years, and those have thousands of years of survival skills ingrained into their culture. People who live in our culture do not have those skills, and even if they did, they would still have to deal with people who own property.

These people of yours also don't have landlords. And if they do, they are their enemy, because that's how imperialism works. In that regard, we are quite similar.

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lmao @ "why don't the poors simply buy houses if they hate landlords?"

Honestly, because theyre communists that want free accommodations

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Platoe posted...

lmao @ "why don't the poors simply buy houses if they hate landlords?"

Trying to not be poor should probably be their first goal. Then maybe buy a house

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Platoe posted...

lmao @ "why don't the poors simply buy houses if they hate landlords?"

Capitalist shills have a very flimsy grasp on reality.

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Shablagoo posted...

Why do you guys always act like renters paying landlords mortgages isnt a massive net benefit for the landlords? Like, if I said you could use my PS5 for 1 month with the expectation that you pay half the cost of it to me, would you find that to be a fair and reasonable deal?

If your rent is 50% of the property value every month you should probably shop around and reevaluate your financial decisions

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Solid Snake07 posted...

If your rent is 50% of the property value every month you should probably shop around and reevaluate your financial decisions

The idea (obviously) being that renter(s) will, over time, pay countless months of a landlords mortgage. PS5s will cost significantly less than houses do, so I shortened the time frame significantly in turn.


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Shablagoo posted...

Why do you guys always act like renters paying landlords mortgages isnt a massive net benefit for the landlords? Like, if I said you could use my PS5 for 1 month with the expectation that you pay half the cost of it to me, would you find that to be a fair and reasonable deal?

Honestly, that's not even close to the truth. A more accurate version would be that you lobby local politicians to change the law so that you can own thousands of PS5s, then you buy up all the PS5s in the area so noone else can buy them. Then you charge people monthly to use the PS5s because by buying up all the ones in the area no one can get their own and have to come to you.

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I wish I never bought a house

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ScazarMeltex posted...

Honestly, that's not even close to the truth. A more accurate version would be that you lobby local politicians to change the law so that you can own thousands of PS5s, then you buy up all the PS5s in the area so noone else can buy them. Then you charge people monthly to use the PS5s because by buying up all the ones in the area no one can get their own and have to come to you.

Yeah, that is a much better analogy.

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averagejoel posted...

first of all, there was no "other crap" -- I posted a single word. I suggest you learn what a joke is.

second: you didn't actually answer the question. where did you get the impression that I was "laughing"?

saying "nice" to someone getting murdered is a joke? lol you're a clown

and yes, I did answer the question utilizing what you posted towards landlords and what you've posted in the past regarding them

explain to me, how or why someone getting murdered is a joke to you

I think really the issue is that the rental market needs greater regulation to better protect renters. On the flip side of this it'll then be hard to evict problem tenants for landlords. As always, a balance needs to be struck.

The major roadblock to regulation is that the US government doesn't like regulation generally.

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JustMyOpinion posted...

Yep, all the landlords are making so much money they can simply buy everything. Not every landlord is some dude from China looking to park their money somwhere.

I get that, but enough of them are that it fucks up the housing market in entire cities when combined with people buying up shit for the sole purpose of using it for AirBnB.

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JustMyOpinion posted...

Yep, all the landlords are making so much money they can simply buy everything.

I think what hes getting it is that the majority of real estate is owned by a small group of very rich people, even if there are many landlords with small amounts of land who dont belong to that group.

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CommonJoe posted...

Way to make a sweeping generalization

averagejoel posted...

now it's your turn to answer my question: why are you more concerned about hypothetical welfare queens than you are about the massive, very real amounts of public money and resources that go to lining the pockets of people who already have more money than they know what to do with?

I will answer your "virtuous" question, i give a shit about people, not about looking like i am virtuous.

ToPoPO posted...

saying "nice" to someone getting murdered is a joke? lol you're a clown

are you using "clown" as an insult? because that's a very strange way to insult someone for making a joke

and yes, I did answer the question utilizing what you posted towards landlords and what you've posted in the past regarding them

explain to me, how or why someone getting murdered is a joke to you

I will as soon as you tell me how you got the impression that I was "laughing"


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toomanymonikers posted...

I will answer your "virtuous" question, i give a shit about people, not about looking like i am virtuous.

who said anything about virtues? stay on topic please.

it certainly doesn't seem like you "give a shit about people" -- you clearly give more of a shit about hypothetical welfare queens than you do about billionaires funneling money and resources away from people who actually need it

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