Poll of the Day > 28 Geeks Later

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wall chicken, my favorite!

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Ron Jeremy is probably going to jail. He plead, "Not Guilty" in court today. He alleged raped some women and sexually assaulted others. Of course, the real lesson is that everyone in Hollywood is a horrible person.

"But Wave... We already know this!"

Then the other lesson is that as ugly as Ron Jeremy is you can still make money if you have "BIG" talent. Also, don't rape or sexually assault people. That's going to be on the end of the year test. Study up Geeks!

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The Wave Master posted...

Then the other lesson is that as ugly as Ron Jeremy is you can still make money if you have "BIG" talent.

All things considered, Ron Jeremy isn't a terrible looking guy (his "big" issue was always the fact he's overweight, otherwise he's an average-looking dude) and legitimately ugly people have made money in the film industry, albeit not so much the porn industry.

The Wave Master posted...

Also, don't rape or sexually assault people.

Again, these are just allegations (although honestly I kinda think he did it, but his career choice has kinda prejudiced me towards that conclusion)

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Zeus posted...

Again, these are just allegations (although honestly I kinda think he did it, but his career choice has kinda prejudiced me towards that conclusion)

It's not allegations if he plied not guilty to it.
If you're waiting for the law to confirm it, well, it's right there in the judicial system.

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shadowsword87 posted...

It's not allegations if he plied not guilty to it.
If you're waiting for the law to confirm it, well, it's right there in the judicial system.

Wat. That's what the word "allegation" means. If he plead guilty then it wouldn't be an allegation.
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OH MY BAD, I MISREAD IT.
I thought he plead guilty.

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Zeus posted...

although honestly I kinda think he did it, but his career choice has kinda prejudiced me towards that conclusion

I kinda think he might not have, but I'm kind of prejudiced towards that conclusion because every story I've heard about him for years usually involves actresses he's worked with saying he was their favorite guy to work with. It feels like they wouldn't have been that high on him if he was that big of a creep.

But the porn industry is kind of murky in general, because there's almost always accusations of one sort or another, but there's also been a ton of cases where actresses are fully consenting in the moment but change their minds later and try to go after someone who doesn't really deserve it. And, of course, there's a LOT of drug use/abuse going around, so consent, judgement, and even memory of what happened can be questionable at best.

Plus, because it IS porn, there's very little incentive for anyone to really investigate or prosecute accusations, so it gets even harder to separate truth and fiction. And most people are likely to dismiss a lot of accusations as "Well, you're in porn, so you kind of deserved it" (the same way prostitutes have trouble with rape accusation cases).

And there's always the possibility that spending most of his adult life as part of the porn industry has itself sort of colored what is and isn't acceptable behavior, which is at the root of a lot of the minor accusations (though if the major accusations are true, those are still kind of unjustifiable).

Ultimately, though, I honestly don't care. Neither side of this particular case is a hill I want to die on.
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But there's no job...

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It was a slow news day, and I was desperate for posting material. That's why we got a story about Ron Jeremy.

I didn't want to talk about The PS5 not being backwards compatible via disc with Playstation 1, 2, and 3 games. I'm not sure why this is a big deal, but the internet nerd rage is almost unbareable. First it was the controller, now the games, next it will be new money being spent versus old money. I'm over it.

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Sony: *repeatedly tries to hammer nail with the back end of a screwdriver*

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The Wave Master posted...

I didn't want to talk about The PS5 not being backwards compatible via disc with Playstation 1, 2, and 3 games. I'm not sure why this is a big deal, but the internet nerd rage is almost unbareable. First it was the controller, now the games, next it will be new money being spent versus old money. I'm over it.

In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure why anybody would expect it to have ps2 bc since even the ps3 didn't have that on most models. Then the ps4 couldn't play ps1 discs.

In general, even though the media format is the same, it's unrealistic to expect a console to have four generations of bc. If it couldn't play ps4 games, I'd be calling foul, though. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why I bothered buying a ps4 when I could have skipped the generation and just bc'd on a ps5... then again, I think I'm more or less done with traditional console gaming. I kinda suspect that a lot of my enthusiasm for that shit dimmed when I saw the industry kowtowing to SJWs who will never play their games anyway but want to force changes that make gaming worse in an attempt to build their personal brands so they don't have to get real jobs.

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Zeus posted...

In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure why anybody would expect it to have ps2 bc since even the ps3 didn't have that on most models. Then the ps4 couldn't play ps1 discs.

Because most people don't understand how backwards compatibility actually works, and thus assume it's way easier to implement than it actually is.

It's not helped by the fact that while most gamers want backwards compatibility, most publishers don't. So console developers are sort of caught in the middle where they're going to annoy someone no matter what they do. But consumers are fickle while publishers can hold grudges (and withhold content), so any smart hardware developer is going to ignore fan backlash. Most people will forget about it by December anyway.

Basically, online fans talked themselves into assuming the console would have it, and are now disappointed that it doesn't, as if Sony somehow betrayed them for not doing something they themselves essentially made up in the first place. But that's what the Internet does all the time anyway.
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It should be possible to do it with PS3 too. At the very least they need to start offering more games on the digital store. I heard some of the Suiokoden games are unavailable.
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BC has never been a dealbreaker for me, but it would be nice.

The controller complaint seems awful silly though.

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Zeus posted...

In all honesty, I'm not entirely sure why anybody would expect it to have ps2 bc since even the ps3 didn't have that on most models. Then the ps4 couldn't play ps1 discs.

In general, even though the media format is the same, it's unrealistic to expect a console to have four generations of bc. If it couldn't play ps4 games, I'd be calling foul, though. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure why I bothered buying a ps4 when I could have skipped the generation and just bc'd on a ps5... then again, I think I'm more or less done with traditional console gaming. I kinda suspect that a lot of my enthusiasm for that shit dimmed when I saw the industry kowtowing to SJWs who will never play their games anyway but want to force changes that make gaming worse in an attempt to build their personal brands so they don't have to get real jobs.

What? SJW stuff are you talking about specifically?


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The Wave Master posted...

What? SJW stuff are you talking about specifically?

Have you been asleep for the past 10-15 years?

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Zeus posted...

Have you been asleep for the past 10-15 years?

I'm asking why does it bother you, and why would it effect your enjoyment of games? It's such an arbitrary reason to dismiss a hobby.

There are other reason to hate modern gaming like the cost, the community, the DLC structure, micro transaction, Games as a Service, etc. Minority, LGBTQ, and women being in the forefront of games and stories shouldn't bother you that much, but why does it, apparently?

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More importantly, why cite SJW issues as a reason to drop console gaming specifically, when I'd argue that it has FAR more influence over PC gaming?

It feels like if SJW issues are that huge of a stumbling block for someone, they'd just stop buying modern games entirely (along with remakes). And comics. And tabletop games. And a fair number of tv shows and movies. And the Internet as a whole.
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Moreover, saying the whole industry has kowtowed to "SJW" stuff is full-blown ridiculous. Last I checked, Mario still basically had no story and was about platforming, Borderlands is still barely contained insanity, Diablo is still about killing demons in explosions of blood, etc.

Don't really have anything to add to the PS5 back of BC-ness. I do enjoy BC, but have accepted it isn't the standard. Nintendo had a good run of it, but it made sense the Switch would lack it due to changing media formats entirely. But I'd expect the Switch 2 or w/e to be BC with the Switch.

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The Wave Master posted...

I'm asking why does it bother you, and why would it effect your enjoyment of games? It's such an arbitrary reason to dismiss a hobby.

There are other reason to hate modern gaming like the cost, the community, the DLC structure, micro transaction, Games as a Service, etc. Minority, LGBTQ, and women being in the forefront of games and stories shouldn't bother you that much, but why does it, apparently?

" who will never play their games anyway"

That was his point. The people bitching about things like that were never going to be playing the games anyway.
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People bitching about something they don't have any investment in is a staple of the internet, c'mon now.

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shadowsword87 posted...

People bitching about something they don't have any investment in is a staple of the internet, c'mon now.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ComplainingAboutShowsYouDontWatch
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The Wave Master posted...

I'm asking why does it bother you, and why would it effect your enjoyment of games? It's such an arbitrary reason to dismiss a hobby.

Because seeing devs kowtow to unreasonable, ridiculous shit from non-gamers annoys the fuck out of me. However, back when it was Christian groups, parents groups, etc, the industry either held its ground or only made the smallest of token efforts when it looked like the government might get involved. Those other groups were a nuisance but they were rightfully written off as cranks and losers -- the same the way that SJWs *should* have been written off, but instead the industry decided to put them up on a pedestal.

If the industry wants to prioritize itself around non-gamers, it can make games for non-gamers... and go bankrupt itself for all I care. Other than the Pokemon franchise and Elder Scrolls, I would be fine if companies never made a new game ever again. (Hell, they *already* stopped making games for most franchises I care about.)

The Wave Master posted...

There are other reason to hate modern gaming like the cost, the community, the DLC structure, micro transaction, Games as a Service, etc. Minority, LGBTQ, and women being in the forefront of games and stories shouldn't bother you that much, but why does it, apparently?

The cost has been an issue for far longer and, other than Nintendo titles, it's very easily worked around. If you just wait a while, most games are available for under $10 or $15. I paid $30 for Arkham City -- which I still haven't played -- and have since seen for as low as $4 or, when bought together, as part of a 4-for-$10 deal. Likewise, I was still leery of UMvC3 for $15 (maybe new would have been fine) and wound up getting it on Steam for $7.50.

DLC is whatever. 90% of the time, paid DLC is as irrelevant as horse armor. If a game has a lot of DLC that I might care about, I wait for a GOTY or collector's edition to compile it at low cost.

Microtransactions generally only impact games that were shit in the first place. One of the few games I still play is Pokemon Go. It has microtransactions but I haven't spent a dime and, other than losing out on the last event (which had shadow Mewtwo), it hasn't impacted me one bit. (Granted, I've spent a lot on the *indirect* costs like gas.) And I've been thinking I should curtail a lot of my Pokemon Go playing because I'm devoting time and energy to something that will probably shut down in under a decade (whereas Niantic's other game, Ingress, likely will continue forever).

As for "minority, LGBTQ, and women being in the forefront" -- the shitty fucking defense used by supporters of this nonsense -- isn't what bugs me (and, in fact, several of my favorite games from the 2010s had female minority leads, including Mirror's Edge), it's that non-gamer SJW advocacy is successfully putting them these. You have unelected ass clowns telling us that they know what's good for an industry and players -- something that bugs me enough when it's government pulling that shit -- and the industry bending over and shouting, "Thank you, sir/madam/undefined, can I have another?", like it was a frat hazing from a bad 80s college film. Ultimately they're not empowering minorities or women, they're empowering ass clowns who can make a living profiting off controversies and stirring the pot. I doubt many of these ass clowns even believe in the causes they represent and, if there were another cause that they could back instead of getting a real job, they'd be doing that instead.

And the end-result? Generally a strictly-worse product. These movements in general are about raising up the chaff because they take issue with the wheat instead of find ways to create wheat with the qualities they want... which, you know, is something they can't do because they aren't even fucking gamers, they're controversy riders who attack industry after industry to stay relevant.

The industry should have had some fucking balls and done the same thing they did when Christian groups were bitching at them: Double-down and ride the controversy, while only making the smallest of token changes like an optional setting to turn off blood. Imagine what the industry would looked like today if they treated those Christian groups the same way they embraced SJW complaints.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

More importantly, why cite SJW issues as a reason to drop console gaming specifically, when I'd argue that it has FAR more influence over PC gaming?

How many PC games do I play, though? I created a Steam account maybe 10 years ago and, until this year, I hadn't used it at all. My total time on Steam probably isn't even a hundred hours. Compare that to console gaming where I've spent hundreds of hours on some games (or over a thousand, in the case of Oblivion, Skyrim, and early Pokemon games).

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It feels like if SJW issues are that huge of a stumbling block for someone, they'd just stop buying modern games entirely (along with remakes). And comics. And tabletop games. And a fair number of tv shows and movies. And the Internet as a whole.

I don't buy comics (at least, nothing current -- the quality there was absolute shit even before they started kowtowing to people who would NEVER, ever touch their comics). I wasn't aware tabletop games had an issue, but it's not like I buy those either. And, other than comics, SJW attacks have been less intrusive and pronounced on those industries... although obviously NF's She-Ra is lackluster because they picked a showrunner who was more interested in virtue-signalling than producing entertainment; granted, even though season 1 was meh, I might watch the rest eventually.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

Moreover, saying the whole industry has kowtowed to "SJW" stuff is full-blown ridiculous. Last I checked, Mario still basically had no story and was about platforming, Borderlands is still barely contained insanity, Diablo is still about killing demons in explosions of blood, etc.

Because the SJW movement was about putting stories in games or curtailing violence /topic


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So eloquent

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Zeus posted...

If the industry wants to prioritize itself around non-gamers, it can make games for non-gamers... and go bankrupt itself for all I care.

Let's be fair. The sad fact is that the majority of profits in games these days seems to be coming from "non-gamers". It's why mobile phone games pull FAR more money in than GotY candidates (that barely sell 10 million copies at best), and why most devs and publishers are pushing so hard to try and shoehorn the mobile freemium economy and pay structure into console and PC gaming in spite of the pushback from "gamers".

It's generally a standard stat cited that more than 50% of the current gaming audience is basically ultra-casual mobile phone owners playing the modern equivalent of Solitaire, Snake, or Minesweeper. Except now you're paying for extra turns and special card-back loot packs and extra mine-detecting perks, so your free games wind up costing you hundreds of dollars.

Execs are firmly convinced that the way to success is to cater to a wide mainstream base and siphon off the whales, because people will still play (and pay) no matter how bad they make the grind or how vapid they make the narrative. All they really have to do is make the gameplay loop addictive and tap into the gambling addict instinct.



Zeus posted...

I wasn't aware tabletop games had an issue, but it's not like I buy those either.

Oh dear God, it may be worse there now than anywhere else.

We've basically gone from arguing over whether or not orcs are racist to people claiming that all races are objectively racist because some are better than others, to the point where WotC has come out and said that they're going to rework the rules of D&D to remove the entire idea of race bonuses/drawbacks for elves, dwarves, orcs, and gnomes (and honestly, I'm half-waiting for someone to point out that "dwarves" has a prejudiced connotation in the real world, and have them desperately try to rename them as a concept as well).

And they've gone out of their way to be as "inclusive" as possible in most of the sourcebooks they've put out over the last five years or so, which in practice means that more than half the important NPCs you meet are going to be badass females (and half of those are going to be "people of color"), more than half the couples you meet in game are going to be gay or lesbian, and you're going to run into multiple trans, non-binary, or otherwise gender-fluid individuals running around in a medieval fantasy world. Oh, and elves can basically wish themselves into whatever biological gender they want whenever they want now.

And that's just D&D (the most "mainstream" RPG). Games like 7th Sea and the new editions of Vampire got beat so hard with the Tumblr stick that they barely resemble their original versions.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

We've basically gone from arguing over whether or not orcs are racist to people claiming that all races are objectively racist because some are better than others, to the point where WotC has come out and said that they're going to rework the rules of D&D to remove the entire idea of race bonuses/drawbacks for elves, dwarves, orcs, and gnomes (and honestly, I'm half-waiting for someone to point out that "dwarves" has a prejudiced connotation in the real world, and have them desperately try to rename them as a concept as well).

Almost like the whole point for fantasy was to talk about race relationships and peoples viewpoints on good and evil :o

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ParanoidObsessive posted...

Let's be fair. The sad fact is that the majority of profits in games these days seems to be coming from "non-gamers". It's why mobile phone games pull FAR more money in than GotY candidates (that barely sell 10 million copies at best), and why most devs and publishers are pushing so hard to try and shoehorn the mobile freemium economy and pay structure into console and PC gaming in spite of the pushback from "gamers".

But the mobile market has little impact on traditional gaming since it's catering to a majority non-gaming crowd. And honestly, SJWs can attack mobile all day long for all I care... well, except for PG, although PG would be safe regardless given how annoyingly hard it virtue-signals.

Mobile is and (hopefully) always will be a separate conversation.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

They're going to rework the rules of D&D to remove the entire idea of race bonuses/drawbacks for elves, dwarves, orcs, and gnomes

Sweet Christmas...

ParanoidObsessive posted...

And they've gone out of their way to be as "inclusive" as possible in most of the sourcebooks they've put out over the last five years or so, which in practice means that more than half the important NPCs you meet are going to be badass females (and half of those are going to be "people of color"), more than half the couples you meet in game are going to be gay or lesbian, and you're going to run into multiple trans, non-binary, or otherwise gender-fluid individuals running around in a medieval fantasy world. Oh, and elves can basically wish themselves into whatever biological gender they want whenever they want now.

But how much of it is SJWs trying to influence D&D vs just D&D desperately trying to make itself relevant in a world where p&p rpgs are gradually fading away?

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Zeus posted...

But how much of it is SJWs trying to influence D&D vs just D&D desperately trying to make itself relevant in a world where p&p rpgs are gradually fading away?

...Bro what?
DnD has been stronger than it has been in literal years, this decade has been fucking massive for DnD.

4e was the "We want the non-gamers to play this game".
5e and Critical Role pulled people in with the roleplaying aspects, because that's why people care and why people actually want to play the game. People enjoy listening to actual plays, much to the older gamers chagrin, because it's fun and engaging content.

This isn't a grab for attention, the backlash is because new people are getting interested and buying the products.

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Zeus posted...

Because the SJW movement was about putting stories in games or curtailing violence /topic

The point being you're seeing SJW boogeyman that clearly don't exist, at least nowhere near the level you're making it out to be.

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There is a different way of looking at this, than purely "people on internet mad". This has been a company that's existed online in the early 2000s, dealing with angry neckbeards, or SJWs, or anything else, has been normal forever. WotC got rid of their DnD forums in, like, 2015, they had more than enough time to get used to it.

What is different from now, is what the TTRPG market has been moving towards. More recently, games have diverged into either heavy crunchy wargame-style games. Pathfinder being still a prime driving factor of it. Then, you have more flippy floppy hippie dippie games, like Lasers and Feelings. 5e straddles that pretty decently, but it's flippy dippy for the people who want crunchy systems, and people who want flippy dippy games, it's still really crunchy.

The industry is, broadly, moving more towards the flippy dippy games, it's better drama for people to get into, it's improv with a dad. The marketing associated with a nice FATE game actual play, is something that can't get overstated enough, that's how you sell to people now. That's how I learn about new systems, I watch someone play, learn the feel of the game, the feel of the world, and so on, I don't sit down and get used to a game by just reading. This isn't a judgement call or anything, this is just how the industry is moving.

So, what does that have to do with the racial modifiers? Racial modifiers deal directly with one of the extra crunch elements, the stat, not the modifier derived from it. I could see the game removing stats entirely, and just moving directly to modifiers. It pulls away some of the mechanical creativity, but, that's what flippy dippy games are about. Making races have skill modifiers (orcs are always good at yelling, for example), or, being able to use a skill in a different location (like FATE stunts), is something that I could 100% see as the reason to make the game different and more flippy dippy.

EDIT: God, why do I only make giant posts when I'm talking about ttrpgs.

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I asked about the SJW because while it's a little annoying, it doesn't effect my enjoyment of a product or service. The story is the story, and that's the end of it for me. I don't get upset at the characters in the story unless it's written badly in my perspective. However, who they're sleeping with or who they like to sleep with aren't a secret ploy by society as a whole to push an agenda.

And if there is an agenda, and that agenda is to expose a new group of people to a different set of stories and conflicts then that's fine.

Maybe being a minority has given me a unique perspective in life and in media. Until very recently black people didn't get staring roles in movies where we weren't stereotyped so badly that we became caricatures. Thus I have empathy toward LGBTQ characters and their stories, and don't mind plot points around those issues, and I don't automatically get upset or triggered when it happens.

As I mentioned before I love Black Panther and my wife loves Wonder Woman for vastly different reasons, but sometimes it's good to be represented in media, and if you don't like what's going on then just don't watch or play, but don't rain on others people's joy of something especially if you know the product isn't for you.

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shadowsword87 posted...

People bitching about something they don't have any investment in is a staple of the internet, c'mon now.

Yes but the companies are morons and think they're actual fans.
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The Social Justice extremists are strongest in the regions of fandom where they can get their hands on the levers and pulleys. I've mentioned it in a different topic, but I've had to completely change my approach to writing fanfic -- I quit doing it for a while, and then came back under a different pseudonym -- because that's one part of the Internet where you can be doxxed, dragged, and ruined in real life for having a contrary opinion. It's one thing to lobby creators and showrunners to do things differently. It's something else entirely to exert a Stalinist hold over the fan community. SJWs are annoying in the big picture, but, in my realm of geekery in particular, they're actually dangerous.

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I_Abibde posted...

The Social Justice extremists are strongest in the regions of fandom where they can get their hands on the levers and pulleys. I've mentioned it in a different topic, but I've had to completely change my approach to writing fanfic -- I quit doing it for a while, and then came back under a different pseudonym -- because that's one part of the Internet where you can be doxxed, dragged, and ruined in real life for having a contrary opinion. It's one thing to lobby creators and showrunners to do things differently. It's something else entirely to exert a Stalinist hold over the fan community. SJWs are annoying in the big picture, but, in my realm of geekery in particular, they're actually dangerous.

The only way to get doxxed that way is if you release personal information.
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shadowsword87 posted...

...Bro what?
DnD has been stronger than it has been in literal years, this decade has been fucking massive for DnD.

How many years? Oo Surely it's not as big as it was in the 80s? idk, I don't keep up with D&D and I tend to zone out when friends start talking about it and other p&p RPGs. And, even when sales are up, I'm never sure how much of that is increased interest vs increased monetization of the playerbase.

CyborgSage00x0 posted...

The point being you're seeing SJW boogeyman that clearly don't exist, at least nowhere near the level you're making it out to be.

It's not a bogeyman when not only are the SJWs there, but they've been invited to speak in front of the UN and some have been hired on by devs as "consultants". Granted, the bulk of this was a few years ago, but looking back I think that was right when my enthusiasm for gaming basically dwindled to nothing. At any rate, not only does it exist, but it's also had a pretty fucking direct impact.

shadowsword87 posted...

WotC got rid of their DnD forums in, like, 2015, they had more than enough time to get used to it.

Didn't they get rid of all of their forums at that point? I think that's when the MtG forums were taken down. idk, that shit really annoys me since the companies justify it as, "Well, nobody really uses these any more," when they still have pretty active userbases.

I_Abibde posted...

The Social Justice extremists are strongest in the regions of fandom where they can get their hands on the levers and pulleys. I've mentioned it in a different topic, but I've had to completely change my approach to writing fanfic -- I quit doing it for a while, and then came back under a different pseudonym -- because that's one part of the Internet where you can be doxxed, dragged, and ruined in real life for having a contrary opinion. It's one thing to lobby creators and showrunners to do things differently. It's something else entirely to exert a Stalinist hold over the fan community. SJWs are annoying in the big picture, but, in my realm of geekery in particular, they're actually dangerous.

Yeah, they're a fucking scary bunch.

In general, SJWs tend to be more capable in taking over and distorting industries/fanbases than other groups. For instance, they have a downright horrific hold on YA literature where they act as the unelected gatekeepers. And they certainly go to extremes when it comes to policing communities/fanbases.

Revelation34 posted... The only way to get doxxed that way is if you release personal information.

Or through hacking. Or through people just trying to trace your information until they find your other accounts.

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Zeus posted...

How many years? Oo Surely it's not as big as it was in the 80s? idk, I don't keep up with D&D and I tend to zone out when friends start talking about it and other p&p RPGs. And, even when sales are up, I'm never sure how much of that is increased interest vs increased monetization of the playerbase.

So, in the 80s it was well known due to the satanic panic, but the actual sales of it were actually relatively low. It was heavily influential and important, but, a good chunk of parents said "That Dungeons and Dragons is evil, but that Fafsa group doesn't have to do with satanic things, so you should be good to play it".

I don't actually know off the top of my head, so I did a quick googling, and according to this article:
https://unpossiblejourneys.com/how-well-is-5th-edition-dungeons-and-dragons-selling/
DnD 5e players handbook (the one with all of the character classes in it), have surpassed the PBH of all of 3e (lol), 3.5e, and 4e PHB. This was in 2016, which it's only gone up since then.
It's *really* hard to get accurate data of 1e and 2e because it wasn't actually produced by WotC, and TSR wasn't run by primarily business men so their records aren't that great. I don't think the point you're trying to make profit margins, but butts-in-seats of how many people are playing the game, or, have an interest in playing the game (which aren't the same).
So, instead just looking at what people play online, you're looking at Roll20 having 3 million users (about 65% of which play DnD) and FantasyGround having about 700k users. This is just online play and user numbers, so you have alts, but, it's a good marker that a lot of people play DnD.

WotC also claimed that 2019 was the biggest year of any year of DnD.
https://www.dicebreaker.com/series/dungeons-and-dragons/news/dungeons-and-dragons-2019-biggest-year

Huh, only 61% of players are male according to that article. That's actually pretty interesting. In my IRL playgroup, we have 3 men and 2 women, so, that somewhat tracks. Online games are mostly men, but, it's still honestly really interesting to me.

EDIT:
The cultural impact may have been different, but, actual people playing have gone way the hell up.

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Revelation34 posted...

The only way to get doxxed that way is if you release personal information.

I have been lucky enough to not be doxxed. I've been on the Internet way too long to be careless with my info. Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent me from being anonymously dragged and libeled by those clowns, nor does it prevent me from being banned from communities, losing online friends due to them being pressured not to associate with me, etc. "Trial by social media" is a thing, and you're guilty until proven innocent in that court -- except that no proof is acceptable, so you're just flat-out guilty with no recourse, even if it's all shit they made up.

So, yeah, the SJWs are real. It's one reason I actually keep hanging out here on Game FAQs, despite all its faults and rampant stupidity: Social Justice has no real power here.

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I_Abibde posted...

Social Justice has no real power here.

on PotD, perhaps. try posting an opinion to the right of Bernie on the Politics board...

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WhiskeyDisk posted...

on PotD, perhaps. try posting an opinion to the right of Bernie on the Politics board...

That's a politics board? (I never knew that) That place has to be a horrible combo of a zoo, a jungle, and a crack house.

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I generally just tune out when the discussion goes to politics etc (not always but usually), I don't even know what a SJW is (maybe someone told me before even, I just don't remember).

Eventually in these posts things get back to science fiction shows/books, games etc, then I join in again:)

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The Wave Master posted...

That's a politics board? (I never knew that) That place has to be a horrible combo of a zoo, a jungle, and a crack house.

Ive never been there, but Im eager to know which elements from those three places you think are present.

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wolfy42 posted...

Eventually in these posts things get back to science fiction shows/books, games etc, then I join in again:)

I'm just here for DnD/TTRPG talk now I feel.

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Let's switch gears and talk about Nintendo and their insanity.

Nintendo is porting Mario 64, Mario Sunshine (Mario with a water gun) and Mario Galaxy 1 (Mario in Space) to the Switch with upscaled visuals and reworked controls. It's for Mario's 35th Anniversary which is cool.

Now the insanity...

First no Mario Galaxy 2 (Mario still in Space) included in the bundle. No one knows why, but okay. Then these A******** say that if you don't buy the game by March 2021 then you'll never be able to get it again. A damn 6 month sale then it's over forever, yeah they can go to hell.

Why does Nintendo always do this artificial shortage crap? Every single big ticket product is a struggle to get. The Wii, 3DS, Aniibo, The Switch. It's old and I'm sick of their insanity.

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I_Abibde posted...

Social Justice has no real power here.

Overlooking the mods, maybe >_> I once got suspended for "suggesting that rape culture isn't real" (the mod's words) despite the fact that rape culture itself is a more fringe belief almost exclusively associated with social justice movements. And it's hardly been the only time when mods used (or rather, abused) their position to promote agendas predominantly associated with social justice movements.

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shadowsword87 posted...

Almost like the whole point for fantasy was to talk about race relationships and peoples viewpoints on good and evil :o

I'd argue that's not even remotely the point of fantasy.

If anything, in many cases, I'd argue that's the literal opposite of what the point of fantasy is (Tolkien himself said on multiple occasions that he loathed allegory in all its forms, and deliberately avoided using it in anything he wrote, and people have still spent the last 80 years trying to read intent into what he wrote to know what he "really" meant).

The idea of fiction-as-social-exploration is much more in the wheelhouse of sci-fi than it is fantasy.

And I won't say that specific difference between the two genres plays a huge role in why I tend to dislike sci-fi as a whole and tend to skew much more to fantasy, but it probably plays at least some part.



Zeus posted...

But the mobile market has little impact on traditional gaming since it's catering to a majority non-gaming crowd.

Mobile is and (hopefully) always will be a separate conversation.

It won't, because that statement is ridiculously untrue.

Mobile gaming has had a HUGE impact on traditional gaming in general for the last decade. Triple-A publishers have spent years jerking themselves to sleep over just how much money mobile gaming generates, and there are literally conferences and consulting firms that exist solely to find new ways to implement mobile-style mechanics into traditional games, in an attempt to harvest as much cash as possible (which is why it tends to be more common from companies that are publically-traded and beholden to stockholders rather than smaller indie developers who are trying to focus more on art than business).

The entire premise of microtransactions as we know them today are mostly influenced by the growing success of mobile gaming, and every time mobile finds a newer, scummier way to fleece players, the publishers making games for PC and consoles immediately start trying to come up with ways to implement something similar (see also, the entirety of EA's sports franchise game lines).



The Wave Master posted...

And if there is an agenda, and that agenda is to expose a new group of people to a different set of stories and conflicts then that's fine.

My philosophy has always honestly been that I don't care if something is trying to expose a new group of fans to a thing I already love, but I do tend to react negatively when it feels like it's trying to do so at the expense of old fans. If I wind up hating something I loved for decades, solely because you decided I wasn't "good enough" to be your audience, then I'm sorry, YOU are the asshole.

Unfortunately, for the last 20 years, it definitely feels that almost every attempt to make anything more "mainstream" has almost always involved shitting on most of the things that made it popular with its fans in the first place, and at worst, turns into an attempt to marginalize or drive off the original fans in the attempt. All too often, "inclusivity" as a buzzword just winds up being a different type of exclusion.

It's not JUST a case of "I need people I can relate to in order to enjoy something, and resent other people having people they can relate to because then it's not all about me." For one thing, I almost never relate to characters in movies I watch or books I read or games I play anyway, and certainly not solely based around color or ethnicity or sexuality or world-view. And I can still empathize/sympathize with people who aren't "me" - as an example, I quite enjoyed Black Panther as a movie in spite of the fact that the only two white dudes in it were a token goofus good guy and an even more goofus bad guy.

The quality of the writing is all that really matters to me. And all too often, the quality of writing tends to suffer when the focus isn't on producing the best possible story instead of establishing a Rainbow Coalition of characters to meet an ideologically-motivated quota.

And now I'm compelled to post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWJOXczogps

But all of that is literally just talking about the actual CREATORS of work. Things get about a hundred times worse when you descend into the fandoms of various works, because fandoms almost inevitably suck even before you start bringing social politics arguments or political ideology in general into things.



Revelation34 posted...

The only way to get doxxed that way is if you release personal information.

Not really. People figured out when Steven King was writing under a pen name because they literally accessed public documents and connected the dots. And at least one writer was outed because someone contacted his publishing house and managed to figure out that they were sending payments for two different writers to the same address.

From there it's not that difficult to access different public records to find the home address of pretty much anyone in the US. It's harder if your name is "John Smith", but if you've got a more unique name, it's not that hard to track down TONS of info about you without you ever releasing a single bit of personal information yourself.

For more fun, read this:

http://www.pwmania.com/sonya-deville-testifies-against-alleged-stalker-more-details-revealed

If a crazy enough fucker wants to find you, a crazy enough fucker WILL find you. It's not really a question of availability of info at this point as much as it is a question of how much effort someone is willing to make to look for it.



Zeus posted...

Didn't they get rid of all of their forums at that point? I think that's when the MtG forums were taken down. idk, that shit really annoys me since the companies justify it as, "Well, nobody really uses these any more," when they still have pretty active userbases.

That's a case where I'd attribute it more to corporate greed than assumptions about utility.

I'd be willing to bet a great deal the mentality at the time was more along the lines of "Why should we pay to host these forums, keep moderators on-hand to keep things under control, and potentially open ourselves to legal action when sites like Reddit and Twitter exist now, and our fans can effectively discuss our products elsewhere?"

Same reason companies like BioWare shut their forums down. And why GameFAQs is such a relic in this day and age. The NEED for forums like that has mostly been outsourced at this point.
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The Wave Master posted...

Let's switch gears and talk about Nintendo and their insanity.

Nintendo is porting Mario 64, Mario Sunshine (Mario with a water gun) and Mario Galaxy 1 (Mario in Space) to the Switch with upscaled visuals and reworked controls. It's for Mario's 35th Anniversary which is cool.

Now the insanity...

First no Mario Galaxy 2 (Mario still in Space) included in the bundle. No one knows why, but okay. Then these A******** say that if you don't buy the game by March 2021 then you'll never be able to get it again. A damn 6 month sale then it's over forever, yeah they can go to hell.

Why does Nintendo always do this artificial shortage crap? Every single big ticket product is a struggle to get. The Wii, 3DS, Aniibo, The Switch. It's old and I'm sick of their insanity.

I still have my Wii, so can play the original galaxy's if I want (heck I have a Wii U I can play em on as well).

A new version/upgadted Mario 64 might be nice, I had it on my 3ds but I don't like playing it that small.

But yeah no clue why they are making it timed, and not just selling em individually. I think they may still sell them on the Wii U though (Believe I could get Sunshine which is the only one I don't have at all right now by itself).

I have enough of em to really scratch that itch tho tbh, so I don't really care that much anymore.

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Zeus posted...

Overlooking the mods, maybe >_> I once got suspended for "suggesting that rape culture isn't real" (the mod's words) despite the fact that rape culture itself is a more fringe belief almost exclusively associated with social justice movements. And it's hardly been the only time when mods used (or rather, abused) their position to promote agendas predominantly associated with social justice movements.

Yeah that sounds like a bad mod.
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ParanoidObsessive posted...

If anything, in many cases, I'd argue that's the literal opposite of what the point of fantasy is (Tolkien himself said on multiple occasions that he loathed allegory in all its forms, and deliberately avoided using it in anything he wrote, and people have still spent the last 80 years trying to read intent into what he wrote to know what he "really" meant).

Tolken himself may not like allegory, and that's why I take LotR at face value.
And, he may have codified a bunch of the tropes for fantasy, but he is not all of fantasy and it's a bit unreasonable to just go with Tolken as the word of god for all works of fiction in that genre.

Fantasy has fallen into the field of literature, and all of the good and bad elements have to be brought with that, kicking and screaming. Reader interpretation and literary criticism of the material is a valid reading of fantasy now.

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The Wave Master posted...

Why does Nintendo always do this artificial shortage crap? Every single big ticket product is a struggle to get. The Wii, 3DS, Aniibo, The Switch. It's old and I'm sick of their insanity.

Come on, we've been over this. It's been explained by not just from me, but countless others on here how this line is, from every possible angle, utter false and makes no sense. Yet you keep repeating it. That's not how supply and demand works, Wave.

That said, this DOES appear to be a true case of drumming up hype. It's less artificial shortage and more of a promotional run. Which isn't crazy in itself if you're talking about a physical product- Nintendo has done limited special edition bundles of games before (like the 4 game Zelda bundle on the GCN), as have other companies. But that stops making sense when the digital is a limited run, too. And it's a Mario bundle, so it's going to sell regardless. Quite odd indeed.

But it's just as odd to get in a huff about it. If you don't like Mario enough to get the games within 6 months of release, chances you were never going to get it anyways. No harm, no foul, as stupid as it is. Now, No SMG 2 included IS something to get mad about. That's truly a very odd and glaring omission. I'd probably buy the bundle if it had that, just to keep them all in one nice, portable place. But I still have both SMG and the DS64 one (and never cared enough for Sunshine to resist it) that I'll probably pass.


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ParanoidObsessive posted...

It won't, because that statement is ridiculously untrue.

Mobile gaming has had a HUGE impact on traditional gaming in general for the last decade. Triple-A publishers have spent years jerking themselves to sleep over just how much money mobile gaming generates, and there are literally conferences and consulting firms that exist solely to find new ways to implement mobile-style mechanics into traditional games, in an attempt to harvest as much cash as possible (which is why it tends to be more common from companies that are publically-traded and beholden to stockholders rather than smaller indie developers who are trying to focus more on art than business).

*Maybe* that's true of some monetization practices, but not of gaming in general and, more importantly, things like paid DLC predate mobile afaik and a lot of that stuff grew out of it (ie, parallel evolution rather than direct influence)

ParanoidObsessive posted...

It's not JUST a case of "I need people I can relate to in order to enjoy something, and resent other people having people they can relate to because then it's not all about me." For one thing, I almost never relate to characters in movies I watch or books I read or games I play anyway, and certainly not solely based around color or ethnicity or sexuality or world-view. And I can still empathize/sympathize with people who aren't "me" - as an example, I quite enjoyed Black Panther as a movie in spite of the fact that the only two white dudes in it were a token goofus good guy and an even more goofus bad guy.

Yeah, I've never really got that. Of course, the counter-argument there is that -- in some way -- that people who don't think about those issues only don't think about them because they're heavily represented, but, in general, nothing really ever represents me anyway. And it's not like I've ever needed to identify with a character to like them or root for them. And honestly, when it feels like they're trying to create a surrogate or pander, it just feels awkward.


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