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NFUN 08/28/20 7:50:24 PM #1: |
Welcome to the King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) Simulated Character Battle Tournament!
The game is simple. The two* listed characters are placed in an (imaginary) location with a variety of (imaginary) environments, kind of like a picture in a child's schoolbook that describes different types of geological features. Within a ten mile radius, there is an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains, etc. Fighters start wherever is most appropriate for them, but feel increasingly compelled to seek out their opponent and fight. Strong-willed fighters can try to hold out in their chosen environment for longer... eventually, all will succumb and actively search for the other to battle. To participate, just vote in bold for whichever character you believe will win. Giving reasoning is optional, but please be polite and read what others have said and carefully make your decision. I'll ping the nominators (they can opt out) to give arguments if they wish. Results/Discussion: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78797189 TODAY'S PARTICIPANTS: Estelle Bright (Trails in the Sky) https://i.imgur.com/kHD6To4.png vs Guile (Street Fighter) @GavsEvans123 FIGHT! --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 7:52:06 PM #2: |
Both are expert martial artists with low-level offensive magic. Only Estelle has a stick. I do not believe any further discussion is required
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Shonen_Bat 08/28/20 8:14:10 PM #3: |
Guile regularly goes toe to toe with people like Balrog (who trains on cinderblocks and can kill an elephant with a punch) so unless we get some good showings of Estelle's fabled fighting ability this should be a clear win for him
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PrinceKaro 08/28/20 8:19:56 PM #4: |
NFUN posted...
Only Estelle has a stick. I do not believe any further discussion is required Guile has a big stick too just ask the ladies --- https://i.imgtc.com/a6iBg1Y.jpg Congrats to azuarc on being really good at predicting stuff ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Drakeryn 08/28/20 8:30:05 PM #5: |
leaning Estelle due to bigger stick
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X_Dante_X 08/28/20 8:34:40 PM #6: |
look estelle has a stick but does her theme music go with anything
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Kamekguy 08/28/20 8:41:32 PM #7: |
I feel like Estelle would rush down and hit neutral or jump when faced with down back and crouch.
--- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 8:48:11 PM #8: |
X_Dante_X posted...
look estelle has a stick but does her theme music go with anythinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um5EbReY7rA or, if you prefer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmandi2nKi4 --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 8:48:35 PM #9: |
Shonen_Bat posted...
Guile regularly goes toe to toe with people like Balrog (who trains on cinderblocks and can kill an elephant with a punch) so unless we get some good showings of Estelle's fabled fighting ability this should be a clear win for himshe beat up a god with a stick --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Shonen_Bat 08/28/20 8:54:57 PM #10: |
how conveniently unquantifiable!
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NFUN 08/28/20 9:04:01 PM #11: |
Shonen_Bat posted...
how conveniently unquantifiable!she beat up a guy who can destroy a castle wall in one punch... with a stick she beat up a 40 foot tall, 30 ton combat robot... with a stick somebody who trains using cinderblocks doesn't fucking compare to a literal god --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Shonen_Bat 08/28/20 9:17:52 PM #12: |
Estelle joins the pile of mistiered characters then
low tier life is rough --- Hello again. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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rwlh 08/28/20 9:18:52 PM #13: |
NFUN posted...
she beat up a guy who can destroy a castle wall in one punch... with a stick Did she have allies helping her do this? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 9:21:41 PM #14: |
Shonen_Bat posted...
Oh yeah, I forgot that Estelle is an RPG hero and fights over the top enemies before breakfast every morning ok you did this in the last Estelle topic too. I don't argue about her about the strength of her opponents because that's a very poor illustration of strength in these types of discussions. there are very few mid-tier characters I'd take Estelle over. She's strong, vaguely but not remarkably superhuman, and skilled. She's a capable fighter, at least enough to take Guile. She's not broken, nor even the best low has to offer --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 9:23:39 PM #15: |
rwlh posted...
Did she have allies helping her do this?sure. a child with a cannon, a spoony bard, and a teenager with a fencing saber. she's stronger than many of her allies, and carries enough of her weight in the sky games that i'd attribute the "feats" to her. and by crossbell she's a legitimate badass --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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X_Dante_X 08/28/20 9:25:46 PM #16: |
thats not a bad theme at all (some may call it good), but i think i'm still giving the edge to guile
not voting yet since i think its a close match --- boring and mundane signature Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 9:26:42 PM #17: |
X_Dante_X posted...
thats not a bad theme at all (some may call it good), but i think i'm still giving the edge to guileAlright, how about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jOBbzBoUCk --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Shonen_Bat 08/28/20 9:42:26 PM #18: |
I did this in the last Estelle match because it was dumb then too, it took this long to get any arguments for her other than "she has a stick"
NFUN posted... I don't argue about her about the strength of her opponents she beat up a god NFUN posted... She's not broken, nor even the best low has to offer yeah, there are plenty of low tier characters she might lose to there's Mario, a mid tier, The Beast, a mid tier, Kenshiro, Battler, and gun hax Ocelot who are all busted... and Batman with prep time oops NFUN posted... She's a capable fighter, at least enough to take Guile. every example I've seen of her fighting has her charging forward, sometimes screaming, and wildly attacking with her stick citation needed --- Hello again. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/28/20 9:53:42 PM #19: |
you argued this first. The argument "This character is strong because he beat up this strong opponent" naturally calls for the response "This character is stronger because she beat up this stronger opponent". *I* don't argue this. *You* do. What did you expect? Shonen_Bat posted... every example I've seen of her fighting has her charging forward, sometimes screaming, and wildly attacking with her stickwhat examples have you even seen? their games have few animated cinematics and fewer out-of-battle engine fights, and in-battle s-crafts are definitely not canon (unless you accept a character literally summoned a valkyrie to attack or used a satellite's laser in a world that hasn't achieved spaceflight). like i said before, she's a high-ranking member in a guild of badasses, in a tier with those strong enough to get legendary nicknames based on their combat prowess. she's the daughter of one of the strongest people in the world and at least could give him a decent fight before eating it, having learned a few of his tricks (such as his s-craft, which literally i wouldn't count as a canon attack but her having access to the same one is significant). but sure, you've never been given examples of anything other than her wildly attacking with a stick. if you say so Estelle --- You shine, and make others shine just by being near them. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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X_Dante_X 08/28/20 9:55:13 PM #20: |
i did some searching, and it seems estelle's theme does indeed go with quad city dj's better than guile's theme
<b>estelle</b> --- boring and mundane signature Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold ... Copied to Clipboard!
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X_Dante_X 08/28/20 9:55:28 PM #21: |
i miss old gamefaqs estelle
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Drakeryn 08/28/20 10:48:53 PM #22: |
thoughts:
- I wasn't entirely being facetious about the big stick - I feel like having superior reach matters a lot against a fistfighter. - Estelle is a fairly garden-variety RPG character, fighting monsters and robots and all kinds of powerful opponents while in a party. Which is enough to steamroll a lot of low, but would job miserably to a big chunk of mid, so...I don't think she's mis-tiered, just a bit awkward. - It's a little hard to parse out her individual combat achievements, but she's the Bracer Guild hotshot while the other party members tend to be more of a revolving door (and have less plot backing). So I would give her a fair amount of credit. --- another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high ... Copied to Clipboard!
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rwlh 08/28/20 11:12:50 PM #23: |
I'm not sure why Guile was nominated. There are more interesting Street Fighter characters to argue. Did Guile even face off against peak Bison? The Alpha 3 canon is a mess.
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Kamekguy 08/28/20 11:58:40 PM #24: |
Guile
I just think Street Fighter is a tier above what anyone's said about Trails. You've got Zangief destroying a legendary sword of myth by flexing hard and Chun Li breaking down military bunker doors with her fists, and Guile tends to be in the upper end of the "doesn't have magic superpowers" crew. From everything I know about Estelle, she is going to get into range to get Flash Kicked because has big stick, will hit with big stick. And I just think Guile's significantly stronger than that. Like, he scales to a tier below Feng Shui Engine Juri, and I'd take Juri without hesitation here. I don't see a stomp, and unless Estelle develops to use her head more beyond player input (and it's consistent in sequels), I don't see her not getting into Guile's range. --- Mario Vs Cloud 2002: A Video Retrospective - https://youtu.be/1dx4t6H_K9Y Full Channel Available Here!: https://www.youtube.com/c/designingfor ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Mewtwo59 08/29/20 12:14:28 AM #25: |
Guile
Yeah, Street Fighter is getting undersold here. Estelle may have a bit of range with her stick, but Guile can kite her with Sonic Booms. "Beat a god along with a couple other people" doesn't really impress me too much either without much information on the god. Estelle's most impressive stuff is the S-Crafts, and if she doesn't get those, she doesn't stand much of a chance. --- ""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Shonen_Bat 08/29/20 12:58:46 AM #26: |
NFUN posted...
What did you expect? Something above a kindergarten-level "but he started it" response NFUN posted... what examples have you even seen? that's exactly it, basically none. Nothing in-game that I've seen suggests her fighting style will be that much better than "I'll remind you that I have a very large stick", same with the handful of cinematics I've seen like this one https://streamable.com/yjh6i Switching to Guile because Kamekguy posted... Street Fighter is a tier above what anyone's said about Trails I have a bad habit of knee-jerk voting sometimes <_< --- Hello again. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Hbthebattle 08/29/20 1:08:46 AM #28: |
It's not like Estelle doesn't have ranged options, though. Ignoring magic for a second, she already has the ability to fire waves of energy with Comet, which considering it's a defense-piercing attack should be absolutely comparable if not stronger than Sonic Booms. Now including magic, Estelle has a wide range of various effects from summoning tornados and earthquakes to giving herself a shield that protects from any attack. Most importantly though, unlike Guile she has a method of healing herself midfight through healing magic. Estelle regularly destroys monsters and robots several times larger than her and tanks their lasers and gunfire, which is absolutely superior to Guile maybe scaling to Balrog.
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Hbthebattle 08/29/20 1:09:08 AM #29: |
Oh yeah, voting Estelle
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Mewtwo59 08/29/20 1:24:19 AM #30: |
Ok, yeah. Estelle can heal herself if she wants to stand there and let Guile beat her up while she's casting her healing magic. I don't think she'll get a net gain from it, but she can try.
--- ""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Hbthebattle 08/29/20 2:17:57 AM #31: |
Mewtwo59 posted...
Ok, yeah. Estelle can heal herself if she wants to stand there and let Guile beat her up while she's casting her healing magic. I don't think she'll get a net gain from it, but she can try. I thought you were arguing Guile would be kiting her from range with Sonic Booms. How can he simultaneously be too far for her to reach but also be too close for her to heal safely? --- Congrats to azuarc for winning the GotD Guru! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Hbthebattle 08/29/20 2:23:06 AM #32: |
(Plus, Tear-All, the high tier healing magic, full heals anyway, so as long as Guile cant kill her before the heal goes off, which is likely, she goes back to full health)
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rwlh 08/29/20 9:50:34 AM #33: |
If it's in Estelle's personality to charge in headfirst, which it seems like people have been arguing, when does she think to heal? Does it take a Flash Kick from Guile to make her reevaluate, retreat, and start using magic and healing? Would the Flash Kick just...knock her out before she has a chance?
Here's a Guile respect thread. Note that I'm not sure how much of this is canon to the games. https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/6ejmzm/respect_guile_street_fighter/ Here he is moving so fast Juri is caught off guard: https://streamable.com/u50b8 And here he is easily and repeatedly deflecting a berserking Alex without breaking a sweat or taking a hit: https://imgur.com/a/hwaLz Both of these seem relevant to this match. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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rwlh 08/29/20 10:03:43 AM #34: |
Here's an Estelle respect thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/6999qg/respect_estelle_bright_the_legend_of_heroes/ This is a "Hurricane" spell, which doesn't seem to move that quickly: https://i.imgur.com/vLsKrgq.gifv However, she moves fast enough here to seemingly dodge gunfire. That's pretty impressive: https://i.imgur.com/ICkW8iq.gifv Estelle using her stick to defeat an enemy: https://imgur.com/a/My0Eh This is her charging in to attack a larger enemy: https://streamable.com/afgd2 She tanks a punch from someone who punches hard enough to create shockwaves (though it's unclear if he was holding back): https://streamable.com/inlq9 Deflects (slow-moving...) bullets: https://i.imgur.com/X9TPPrX.gifv So it seems like she has some pretty good speed feats. (Then again, so does Guile.) It seems like, yes, she would just rush in and attack, but she would probably be able to dodge Guile's initial attack. From there, Estelle could follow up with I guess more charging in? Maybe try some magic? Guile is the type to calmly analyze compared to her (look at how he handles Alex). Estelle might also give away her position pretty quickly, eager to get in a fight and whistling about "ultraviolence." Guile could try and get the drop on her, but her reflexes are pretty good. Summary: still unsure. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NFUN 08/29/20 10:09:01 AM #35: |
those are all Sky FC/SC Estelle. By the end of SC she's matured a lot more, and has definitely grown out of "blindly charge in" by the later games. Remember, half the job of Bracers is to act as conflict mediators and detectives. She's still a rash person, but one trained to use her head.
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Lopen 08/29/20 10:14:40 AM #36: |
Guile
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rwlh 08/29/20 10:15:54 AM #37: |
Thing is, Guile is trained to use his head too. He's spent his life in the military, most of it in pursuit of Bison. He used to be more stubborn in Street Fighter II, but he's good at keeping his cool in later games.
I don't know how stealthy Estelle is (one might say I don't know what her level of "Estealth" is, ha ha...ha), but Guile hunted Bison and Shadaloo for years, often going to dangerous places and fighting dangerous people, so I would imagine stealth was a key skill for him. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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rwlh 08/29/20 4:20:39 PM #38: |
Guile.
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