Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 324: 750 US Dollars is the new 599 US Dollars

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't buy that he meant to say "stand down" at all, because he immediately follows "stand down, stand by" with the rhetoric about somebody needing to do something about Antifa.

You're giving him way too much credit.

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last night it was stand back and stand-by, today it was stand down.... but yeah, following it up with the exact same rhetoric about antifa

although also today more tightly linking white supremacy to the police force who will do the job right!

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Maybe I am giving him too much credit, maybe I'm not. But it would have been nice if we could remove all doubt without three grown ass men yelling over each other.

But that is still entirely Trump's fault.

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Like, we didn't lack a "civil, direct answer" from Trump because of the chaos. We lacked civil, direct answers from Trump because he doesn't give civil, direct answers. He says whatever he thinks his base wants to hear, he avoids saying bad things about his base, and his base includes white supremacists. That's all there is to it.

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Well, I think we can remove all doubt because he had the chance to denounce them today and was called upon by other members of his own party to do so and he still didn't actually do it.

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Worth noting that basically the only time Trump stopped and hesitated before opening his mouth was when he was asked to denounce white supremacists

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HashtagSEP posted...

Like, we didn't lack a "civil, direct answer" from Trump because of the chaos. We lacked civil, direct answers from Trump because he doesn't give civil, direct answers. He says whatever he thinks his base wants to hear, he avoids saying bad things about his base, and his base includes white supremacists. That's all there is to it.

He literally gave a civil, direct answer in the video linked in the post before mine. It's just that he wants a lot more to trash the other side than address his side, also like he did in the same video.

He has literally said, multiple times, he denounced white supremacy and the KKK. I hate giving Trump credit on anything, but there's videos of him denouncing white supremacy multiple times.

This is just the first one I found after the deluge of Youtube videos that say he refuses to denounce white supremacy. I don't want to defend Trump. I want him out. But you can't get more of a clear denouncement of white supremacy than even the video below.

https://youtu.be/S6PFZNruJes

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Not_an_Owl posted...

do you ever, at any point in your life, have any thoughts in your head that are not about hillary clinton

holy shit

nobody cares about hillary

I choose to believe that Trump won the election in 2016 because voters who hated both candidates decided they knew what a Mrs. Clinton Presidency would be and wanted no part of it, so they decided to take a chance on Trump.

Yes I have faith in Americans to not be THAT stupid. Probably misplaced, oh well.

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lmao is someone really saying he fumbled last night due to the chaos

That moment of the debate was clear as day - he was asked concisely if he would deny white supremacy, he answered sure that he would, both Biden & Wallace then prompted him to actually do it, and for the first time of night Trump was speechless until asking about specific groups and ultimately giving that stand back stand by non-condemnation and side-stepping to antifa. Not condemning as he was asked to.

It was so long and drawn out but Trump was like a deer in headlights when pressed to actually condemn white supremacy.

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Sorry, but I'm not willing to give him a pass when he has blatantly avoided doing so twice in the past two days, now. Shouldn't it be sending up warning flags that he did do it in the past, yet now that it's close to the election, he's refusing to? Why are you going to bat for him, here?

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He might have changed his tune so close to the election, sure. But you're ignoring videos of him saying "I denounce and am against white supremacy", including the one posted literally today when asked directly about it.

If going to bat is not running with something that isn't accurate, then fine. But the guy is saying he's against white supremacy clearly when it's not the middle of a disaster debate, literally the day after.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

He was specifically asked to tell them to stand down. Like if you watch that entire part back, you can really take in how f***ing chaotic it was.

Show me. Watched the debate and the clip multiple times. 'Stand down' was never asked nor would there be a reason for Wallace to ask the president to tell them to 'stand down'

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Trump "denouncing white supremacy" in the past was again a direct result of him previously failing to do exactly that the night before in his first response to Charlottesville.

you don't get fucking points for finally saying what you should've done the first time

It's the bare fucking minimum that should always be expected, and saying those magic words at any point doesn't shield you from the times you refuse. Last night when asked, that question was an absolute gimme that I didn't actually expect him to utterly fumble on. But. He. Did.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

He might have changed his tune so close to the election, sure. But you're ignoring videos of him saying "I denounce and am against white supremacy", including the one posted literally today when asked directly about it.

If going to bat is not running with something that isn't accurate, then fine. But the guy is saying he's against white supremacy clearly when it's not the middle of a disaster debate, literally the day after.

It's exactly the same shit as a "news" outlet like Fox shouting falsehoods and spin-to-the-point-of-lies from the rooftops then issuing a retraction in tiny print at 3am with no fanfare. You're a fucking fool if you believe what you're saying.

I would put money on the proud boys today going "okay boss, we hear you *wink wink" we got our orders last night"

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Grimlyn posted...

Trump "denouncing white supremacy" in the past was again a direct result of him previously failing to do exactly that the night before in his first response to Charlottesville.

you don't get fucking points for finally saying what you should've done the first time

It's the bare fucking minimum that should always be expected, and saying those magic words at any point doesn't shield you from the times you refuse. Last night when asked, that question was an absolute gimme that I didn't actually expect him to utterly fumble on. But. He. Did.

Agreed

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Reg posted...

It's exactly the same shit as a "news" outlet like Fox shouting falsehoods and spin-to-the-point-of-lies from the rooftops then issuing a retraction in tiny print at 3am with no fanfare.

This.


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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Much as I fucking loathe defending Trump and I want him out, he's denounced the KKK and white supremacy in general before multiple times during his presidency, so I don't think he wouldn't denounce them again unless he's suddenly that much more concerned with having their support unlike the last three years because of the election coming up. He did said he would denounce them while talking over both Biden and the moderator and was asking who specifically he wants to denounce.

If you're going to stretch this hard to give Trump credit you should also make a note of how he tends to walk these things back or hedge later. That's what happened in his response to Charlottesville, for example.

The response in my video is something like "I've always denounced any form...of any of that." Bold words from a bold leader. That's good enough for you? <_<

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Mega Mana posted...

Show me. Watched the debate and the clip multiple times. 'Stand down' was never asked nor would there be a reason for Wallace to ask the president to tell them to 'stand down'

https://youtu.be/JZk6VzSLe4Y

Clear as day he asks Trump to tell them to stand down before it devolves into all three of them talking over each other.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I do think Trump did mean to say stand down, since that entire part of the debate was a total clusterfuck and he said twice while all three of them were talking over each other that he would denounce and tell a white supremacist group to stand down and that he just wants peace. He was specifically asked to tell them to stand down. Like if you watch that entire part back, you can really take in how fucking chaotic it was.

Much as I fucking loathe defending Trump and I want him out, he's denounced the KKK and white supremacy in general before multiple times during his presidency, so I don't think he wouldn't denounce them again unless he's suddenly that much more concerned with having their support unlike the last three years because of the election coming up. He did said he would denounce them while talking over both Biden and the moderator and was asking who specifically he wants to denounce.

HOWEVER, it's his own stupid fault for taking the entire debate to the point that three grown ass men are all shouting over one another and none of them are able to take in anything that the other is saying and so you get a moment like this that is a disgusting soundbite, and I can't even feel bad that it's being used against him right now because it's his fault it broke down like this.

What is the worst is that because it was so fucking chaotic that we couldn't get a civil, direct answer from Trump. And that's all Trump's fault.

However, he hasn't immediately come out after and said "I misspoke, I do denounce the Proud Boys and white supremacy." Unless they're hoping to address that at the next debate which is fucking stupid.

Do you believe him now when he says he doesnt know of the Proud Boys?
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It doesn't help that every time Trump "denounces" white supremacists, it's always in a fashion that either allows him to link them to Antifa (which, as has been pointed out numerous times in the past...not an organization), or allows him to pivot the conversation to "Antifa are the REAL dangerous terrorists".

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Grimlyn posted...

Trump "denouncing white supremacy" in the past was again a direct result of him previously failing to do exactly that the night before in his first response to Charlottesville.

you don't get fucking points for finally saying what you should've done the first time

It's the bare fucking minimum that should always be expected, and saying those magic words at any point doesn't shield you from the times you refuse. Last night when asked, that question was an absolute gimme that I didn't actually expect him to utterly fumble on. But. He. Did.

This.

...Except I kind of expected a non-serious both-sides answer out of him - and this seemed to be where he was going originally (Before the whole "stand by" moment there was his "Sure, but..." answer in response to denouncing them from Wallace). I simply didn't expect him to blow it that badly.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

https://youtu.be/JZk6VzSLe4Y

Clear as day he asks Trump to tell them to stand down before it devolves into all three of them talking over each other.

Thank you, I did miss that.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

This is just the first one I found after the deluge of Youtube videos that say he refuses to denounce white supremacy. I don't want to defend Trump. I want him out. But you can't get more of a clear denouncement of white supremacy than even the video below.

https://youtu.be/S6PFZNruJes

By the way, this is a great example of what I was talking about.

This is the Charlottesville speech. This is teleprompter Trump.

Literally one day after this was "very fine people on both sides"

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Between this strange defense and your defense of Richard Spencer in the past over stuff like the gym incident, I'm very confused where you actually stand on certain issues, Biscuit.

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Mnuchin and Pelosi have apparently made a lot of progress on the relief bill. Republicans, just pass the bill. We haven't had an inflation problem since Reagan's presidency.

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

If you're going to stretch this hard to give Trump credit you should also make a note of how he tends to walk these things back or hedge later. That's what happened in his response to Charlottesville, for example.

The response in my video is something like "I've always denounced any form...of any of that." Bold words from a bold leader. That's good enough for you? <_<

This is more fair of a response.

None of this is good enough for me. I'm saying I don't think he meant to say what he did. But because of the debate devolving into fucking insanity, which is entirely Trump's fault, and I would prefer a lot bolder of a denouncement similar to the one he gave in the video I linked right now.

But I don't think it's unfair to say maybe that's not exactly what he meant to say in the midst of three old men yelling over each other, and that it's also questionable because he has also denounced white supremacy in the past. I don't think that's unreasonable for me to not immediately jump on that.

Like fuck. I think Trump sucks. I could rant and rave about the other stupid shit he said at the debate and how much of a scumbag piece of shit he is for bringing Biden's kids into it too. I just think people are jumping the gun on this one portion.

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Hasn't trump said that video of him denouncing the KKK was his worst mistake as president?

Or was that a different time he denounced white supremacy?

I don't put much stock in this teleprompter denouncements when he can't ad lib anything close to that sentiment.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Between this strange defense and your defense of Richard Spencer in the past over stuff like the gym incident, I'm very confused where you actually stand on certain issues, Biscuit.

I had to even look up what you said about this Spencer gym thing. I probably said it's bad to cancel someone's gym membership over politics three fucking years ago?

How's this for you, instead of you trying to subtly say I support white supremacy: white supremacy is for dickless losers and I am entirely against it.

I don't know how anything I said about Trump denouncing white supremacy and that it's good that he denounced white supremacy implies I think white supremacy is good.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

I don't put much stock in this teleprompter denouncements when he can't ad lib anything close to that sentiment.

This is the point people are making.

Teleprompter Trump has denounced white supremacy

Regular Trump has often walked back those denouncements and commonly refuses to do so.

We're not giving Regular Trump the benefit of the doubt for something Teleprompter Trump said, especially since Teleprompter Trump's statements rarely actually stick, but for some reason you're trying to shame us for it?

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

By the way, this is a great example of what I was talking about.

This is the Charlottesville speech. This is teleprompter Trump.

Literally one day after this was "very fine people on both sides"

Yeah, that's my reaction too. It's really easy to tell when it's Trump speaking his mind and Trump reading a teleprompter, and that's Trump reading a teleprompter.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

Hasn't trump said that video of him denouncing the KKK was his worst mistake as president?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/ [remove space] woodward-book-trump-charlottesville

Trump exploded at the coverage, Woodward reports. "That was the biggest fucking mistake I've made," the President told Porter. "You never make those concessions. You never apologize. I didn't do anything wrong in the first place. Why look weak?"

Trump continued venting to Porter, Woodward writes. "I can't believe I got forced to do that," he said. "That's the worst speech I've ever given. I'm never going to do anything like that again."

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...wooooooooooow.

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I had to even look up what you said about this Spencer gym thing. I probably said it's bad to cancel someone's gym membership over politics three fucking years ago?

How's this for you, instead of you trying to subtly say I support white supremacy: white supremacy is for dickless losers and I am entirely against it.

I don't know how anything I said about Trump denouncing white supremacy and that it's good that he denounced white supremacy implies I think white supremacy is good.

I'm not suggesting you support white supremacy.

My take would just be that it doesn't actually appear to be much of a sticking point to you. Which is whatever. Issues vary in importance to everybody. I just think this defense of Trump here isn't a good one.

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I also think discussing the merits of whether or not Trump truly denounces white supremacy based on walkbacks (which I admit I'm not as familiar with and would love to be educated on) is more valid than his stance based on what he said at the debate since it was such a shit show at that moment.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/ [remove space] woodward-book-trump-charlottesville

Trump exploded at the coverage, Woodward reports. "That was the biggest fucking mistake I've made," the President told Porter. "You never make those concessions. You never apologize. I didn't do anything wrong in the first place. Why look weak?"

Trump continued venting to Porter, Woodward writes. "I can't believe I got forced to do that," he said. "That's the worst speech I've ever given. I'm never going to do anything like that again."

Oh, well there we go. Can we stop giving him the benefit of the doubt now please.

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Does it even matter what he said? I think you'd have to be a fool to think Trump isn't racist, lol.

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HashtagSEP posted...

I'm not suggesting you support white supremacy.

My take would just be that it doesn't actually appear to be much of a sticking point to you. Which is whatever. Issues vary in importance to everybody. I just think this defense isn't a good one.

Kinda feels like you were suggesting I support white supremacy.

You're free to feel it wasn't a good defense or whatever. But it is a sticking point for me. But it's another in a sea of horrible shit that also makes me not want to support Trump. If I had loved basically anything else about Trump and he had clearly failed in that debate without all three men yelling over each other to denounce white supremacy, that would be it for me. But unfortunately it's yet another shitty thing with him.

I would have wanted to be able to hear a direct response to that question that wasn't surrounded by the other two men yelling different things at him. That's all. And that is also entirely Trump's fault we also didn't get that. Because he's an asshat.

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Ive got black accountants at Trump Castle and at Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys wearing yarmulkes. Those are the only kind of people I want counting my money. Nobody else Besides that, I tell you something else. I think that guys lazy. And its probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Oh, well there we go. Can we stop giving him the benefit of the doubt now please.

I was unaware of that.

So yes. I am willing to not give him the benefit of a doubt now. I was unaware he had said that. Thank you GMUN for pulling that up so I could be further educated.

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now that one can't be real

...can it?

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FFDragon posted...

now that one can't be real

...can it?

It's a quote from a biography of one of the presidents of Trump's hotel and casino, which Trump said in 1997 that it "sounded like me" before denying saying it in 1999.

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Actually I think I have the years mixed up:

Trump called ODonnell a disgruntled employee but he didnt deny allegations made in the book during an interview with Playboy magazine in 1999:

Nobody has had worse things written about them than me, Trump says. And here I am. The stuff ODonnell wrote about me is probably true. The guys a fucking loser. A fucking loser. I brought the guy in to work for me; it turns out he didnt know that much about what he was doing. I think I met the guy two or three times total. And this guy goes off and writes a book about me, like he knows me!

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GuessMyUserName posted...

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/politics/ [remove space] woodward-book-trump-charlottesville

Trump exploded at the coverage, Woodward reports. "That was the biggest fucking mistake I've made," the President told Porter. "You never make those concessions. You never apologize. I didn't do anything wrong in the first place. Why look weak?"

Trump continued venting to Porter, Woodward writes. "I can't believe I got forced to do that," he said. "That's the worst speech I've ever given. I'm never going to do anything like that again."

In fairness, from what I understand of Trump's ego, this particular outburst isn't explicitly racism. He's exploding because he has a personal policy (going back decades) never to concede or apologize about anything. Even after losing lawsuits he would never admit wrongdoing.

He's not necessarily mad (in this case) cause he denounced white supremacy. He's mad because he gave a teleprompter speech where he apologized (regardless of subject).

(Regardless of his reasons for anger in that particular moment, though, yes, he's obviously either racist or deliberately pandering to racists as an election strategy).

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yeah that one's been known since before the election for sure

there's also Don Cheadle's claim in a tweet, Hated him since he asked my friends father at a Doral pro-am if hed ever fed a n Did it for me

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Yeah trump regrets giving the teleprompter speech that you are hailing as an example of Trump clearly and decisively denouncing racism and white supremacy.

Yes, it was a cluster**** during the debate and yes, that could have contributed to there being miscommunication and trump not understanding what they wanted him to say, but he does not deserve any benefit of the doubt at this point and he is incapable of providing a firm stance on this issue, even when given multiple opportunities. We should not be counting the speech he made under duress in his favor on this issue.

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See, I knew about the whole "blacks counting my money' thing but I didn't know he went balls-to-walls racist by saying laziness is a characteristic in black people.

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nowadays he mostly sticks to talking about his supporters "good genes" and racehorse theory

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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Yeah trump regrets giving the teleprompter speech that you are hailing as an example of Trump clearly and decisively denouncing racism and white supremacy.

Yes, it was a cluster**** during the debate and yes, that could have contributed to there being miscommunication and trump not understanding what they wanted him to say, but he does not deserve any benefit of the doubt at this point and he is incapable of providing a firm stance on this issue, even when given multiple opportunities. We should not be counting the speech he made under duress in his favor on this issue.

Yeah, I hadn't known that he said he regrets that speech until GMUN posted it.

So I retract giving him the benefit of a doubt with that, and that I was incorrect to.

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Fair enough! And I can see where you are coming from too. Like it feels bad to pile on if it feels like the reason for the pile on isn't 100% above board. Because then the opposition will point to the small reason that the most recent pile on wasn't fully accurate and use that to discredit everything else. It's a bad feeling when that happens.

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