Current Events > One year ago, Martin Scorsese declared Marvel movies as not cinema

(+) Yeah! (+)

Id love to see these people salty over Scorsese try to explain why they feel Marvel flicks would be considered cinema as per his understanding of it, rather than complaining about gatekeeping and clinging on to semantics <_<

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AlisLandale posted...

Id love to see these people salty over Scorsese try to explain why they feel Marvel flicks would be considered cinema as per his understanding of it, rather than complaining about gatekeeping and clinging on to semantics <_<

it isn't enough to be the most expensive, most marketed, most watched movies

they also have to be the most acclaimed by filmmakers and cinephiles to gain a sense of legitimacy

very weird imo!

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mcu being generally soulless is why everybody likes infinity war. something actually happens and people are moved and its not just another sterile exercise like 90% of the series

AlphaCuck posted...

mcu being generally soulless is why everybody likes infinity war. something actually happens and people are moved and its not just another sterile exercise like 90% of the series

I gotta say, infinity war was good, so were guardians and thor ragnarok, but thats about it for me

The only good Marvel movie was Ang Lee's Hulk. He beautifully transposed comic books to cinema.

vigorm0rtis posted...

Meh, I feel the same way about that as I did back when bookstores had a "literature" section.

I mean, in this case, I don't consider textbooks, how to books, biographies, and other non-fiction to be literature.

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Zithers posted...

First of all, is there a difference between cinema and movies? Yeah. The simplest way that I can describe it is that a movie is something you see, and cinema is something thats made. It has nothing to do with the captured medium, it doesnt have anything to do with where the screen is, if its in your bedroom, your iPad, it doesnt even really have to be a movie. It could be a commercial, it could be something on YouTube. Cinema is a specificity of vision. Its an approach in which everything matters. Its the polar opposite of generic or arbitrary and the result is as unique as a signature or a fingerprint. It isnt made by a committee, and it isnt made by a company, and it isnt made by the audience. It means that if this filmmaker didnt do it, it either wouldnt exist at all, or it wouldnt exist in anything like this form.

This is actually a definition of "cinema" that I could get behind. Like once the MCU got to a point certain movies were going to get made regardless. But I think it also can be an argument for some of the Marvel movies being "cinema."

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Tbh the distinction is basically irrelevant for the vast majority of people. Let the elitists have their fun imo. I really don't care very much about movies as an art form, so I'll leave the terminology and "gatekeeping" to people that do.

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I love seeing movies at the cinema. All movies, horror, drama, action, chick flicks what ever. Marvel keeps the cinema in business!

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zithers why are u such a loser when it comes to movies

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

This is actually a definition of "cinema" that I could get behind. Like once the MCU got to a point certain movies were going to get made regardless. But I think it also can be an argument for some of the Marvel movies being "cinema."

feel like ragnarok is the only one i see people mounting defenses for, really

cinema is certainly possible in blockbusters but its just seen more and more infrequently as everything is focus tested to death and made as palatable as possible to everyone. which is not conducive to cinema being produced imo!

the last jedi, fury road, and the mission impossible series are recent examples of blockbuster cinema.

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bobaban posted...

i thought it was hysterical seeing Deniro playing a 20 yo

DeNiro looked 50, even with all that makeup and cgi. The worst part was him and Pesci moved so fucking old too.

He was supposed to be in his 20s, looked in his 50s, and moved like a 70 year old man.

Zithers posted...

feel like ragnarok is the only one i see people mounting defenses for, really

Lmao why?

The most baby formula movie in the lineup.

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

Lmao why?

The most baby formula movie in the lineup.

i haven't seen it but its my understanding that its actually treated like a comic book movie and tries to have fun instead of being po faced and full of expositional gobbledygook

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AlisLandale posted...

Bill Maher puts out that tasteless diss piece on comic books immediately following the death of Stan Lee, and hes met with legit criticism about why hes wrong and why comic books are a legitimate artistic medium.

This is true, but he still had a point.

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I think the comparison to the word "literature" has the right idea, but it still runs the risk of alienating far richer works than the MCU if done on the basis of genre or form. You might not think that PSAs, promotional films or propaganda count as works of cinematic art, but then you've disenfranchised things like the British documentary movement, the films of Santiago Alvarez, or Geoffrey Jones's work.

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cymbaline posted...

Based

When will manchildren accept that their favorite capeshit movies aren't cinema and never will be.
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TooLateToGoBack posted...

When will manchildren accept that their favorite capeshit movies aren't cinema and never will be.

But they can use debate/argument tricks to prove theres no such thing as a real movie vs a movie

I don't get why people get so butthurt about Marvel. Popular films are always more succesful than artsy films. Marvel didn't invent this.

Background_Guy posted...

I don't get why people get so butthurt about Marvel. Popular films are always more succesful than artsy films. Marvel didn't invent this.

Marvel didn't invent bad popular movies, either, but they sure did capitalize on them.

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ITT: Nerds outnerding nerds.

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Marvel didn't invent bad popular movies, either, but they sure did capitalize on them.

So why cry about them specifically?

Zikten posted...

so if it's not cinema, what is it?

Pornography without the sex.

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Background_Guy posted...

So why cry about them specifically?

That's what the topic is about.

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

That's what the topic is about.

Someone created this topic because he's so upset about Marvel movies that he makes a thread to remind people that some guy said he didn't like them a year ago. It's an obsession.

Zithers posted...

the last jedi, fury road, and the mission impossible series are recent examples of blockbuster cinema.

Lmao

Background_Guy posted...

Someone created this topic because he's so upset about Marvel movies that he makes a thread to remind people that some guy said he didn't like them a year ago. It's an obsession.

I don't think he is upset.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

he's right

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IShall_Run_Amok posted...

I don't think he is upset.

Yeah sure, everyone seething about marvel movies ITT isn't upset, they're just super invested in semantics. People make threads about year old opinions purely for academic reasons. Fucking lol.

One year later, my sentiment is still "Okay boomer."

tommybel89 posted...

I think if you made Goodfellas you can say anything you want.

Godfather 2 and Scarface were better gangster films.

And Coppola loved Black Panther.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/black-panther-early-cut-was-screened-francis-ford-coppola-1108741

Oops.
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wish more people preferred cinema to marvel movies sigh

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https://news.brandawareness.in/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/mission-impossible-7-1200.jpg

https://twitter.com/LaFamiliaFilm/status/1312846995963490305

the new mission impossible movies are going to fucking rip btw

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The MCU was such a great thing. Never in my younger nerdiest dreams did I ever think it would happen.

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Zithers posted...

wish more people preferred cinema to marvel movies sigh

You literally think The Last Jedi is cinema

coh posted...

You literally think The Last Jedi is cinema

yeah its probably the best star wars movie. rian johnson is cool. too bad theyre shafting him and he's more than likely not getting that trilogy.

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Background_Guy posted...

Yeah sure, everyone seething about marvel movies ITT isn't upset, they're just super invested in semantics. People make threads about year old opinions purely for academic reasons. f***ing lol.

I dunno bro, this looks like more of a melty than anything Zithers has said so far.

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coh posted...

You literally think The Last Jedi is cinema

I think TLJ is trash, but its almost certainly Rians movie in a way that TFA and RoS are not Abrams movie, imo. If were going by the posted definition, someone could argue its cinema.

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Damn_Underscore posted...

God will say "sorry, you can't enter heaven" and Colorahdo will be like "stop gatekeeping"

lmfao

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AlisLandale posted...

Id love to see these people salty over Scorsese try to explain why they feel Marvel flicks would be considered cinema as per his understanding of it, rather than complaining about gatekeeping and clinging on to semantics <_<

This.

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Zithers posted...

it isn't enough to be the most expensive, most marketed, most watched movies

they also have to be the most acclaimed by filmmakers and cinephiles to gain a sense of legitimacy

very weird imo!

Nah man theres just a definitive line between campy popcorn flicks and "quality cinema"

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TC is right

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well it may not be higher art type of cinema but its still entertaining regardless.

that said tho, i cant knock the man who brought us Goodfellas or The Departed for having his opinion...

"Real Art" is created for the artist, not for an audience

"Cinema", in the way Scorsese uses it, is essentially that idea applied specifically to film.

Marvel movies (or really anything Disney at this point) are created to make money. they are created for an audience, and therefore don't fit that definition

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUq6rGdfJSo

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The Room is my favorite cinema piece.

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he's objectively wrong and a sour old head that's mad he cant gross like they do

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ktownslayer16 posted...

he's objectively wrong and a sour old head that's mad he cant gross like they do

You sure?

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Zithers posted...

i haven't seen it but its my understanding that its actually treated like a comic book movie and tries to have fun instead of being po faced and full of expositional gobbledygook

Its the first Thor movie that instead of doing its own thing, copy n pasted CoMeDy into every sentence of the script with a predictable arc. Strictly because the audience thought the first two was too serious and boring.

averagejoel posted...

"Real Art" is created for the artist, not for an audience

"Cinema", in the way Scorsese uses it, is essentially that idea applied specifically to film.

Marvel movies (or really anything Disney at this point) are created to make money. they are created for an audience, and therefore don't fit that definition

Just look at this silly definition. A movie isnt getting green lit if it will bomb. Every movie hopes to make money.

But if you REALLY think Iron Man 1 wasnt an artistic risk, or Guardians of the Galaxy wasnt an artistic flair put on the big screens, youre delusional.

The individual movies are definitely cinema. This debate can only be had for specifically the cross over movies.

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GoodOlJr posted...

And shitting on stuff is fun, we all do it. Saying the word gatekeeping isnt an argument. He probably shits on whatever he deems okay to shit on

No we dont all do it

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I'm not sure I agree with him, but I understand the argument. I'd consider them to be cinema in the same way that I consider McDonalds to be food. It technically fits all the criteria, but it's just cheap, assembly-line garbage.