Current Events > Remember when Squeenix were like ''turn-based combat is archaic and unpopular''

(+) Yeah! (+)

and they basically forced a change in the JRPG industry to more action-oriented gameplay?

Like damn, even Dragon Quest has this weird hybrid fuckin gameplay now.

At least Persona is keeping the turn-based dream alive.

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No?

No, and DQ XI is purely turn based, no idea what you're on.

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I don't think Dragon Quest Builders is representative of the entire franchise

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I played DQ11 last year and it was turn based as hell.

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Isn't Dragon Quest still turn based but you can move your characters for no reason other than visuals
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Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default both say hello

Smashingpmkns posted...

Isn't Dragon Quest still turn based but you can move your characters for no reason other than visuals

Which was such a tease, too! Like, if enemy range is a thing or zone of control or this somehow affecting AoE it'd be great! Instead it's nonimpactful and I toggled to standard view with no movement within a few minutes of gameplay
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MrMallard posted...

Like damn, even Dragon Quest has this weird hybrid fuckin gameplay now.

No it doesn't

MrMallard posted...

Like damn, even Dragon Quest has this weird hybrid fuckin gameplay now.

wut? It's turnbased. 11 just has this weird free roam thing, but you can turn it off and see that it's still strictly turnbased

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Smashingpmkns posted...

Isn't Dragon Quest still turn based but you can move your characters for no reason other than visuals

That might be it. I remember playing the demo and being like "what kind of fresh hell is this?"

Why move around the map when you do all the same JRPG shit in menus? It's like the movement of a tactical RPG with the functionality of a traditional JRPG - the former is basically useless.

My bad on the Dragon Quest example.

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Paper Mario came out earlier this year and it's turned based

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NeonOctopus posted...

wut? It's turnbased. 11 just has this weird free roam thing, but you can turn it off and see that it's still strictly turnbased

Alright, good to know.

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NeonOctopus posted...

but you can turn it off and see that it's still strictly turnbased

Even if you don't, all the free-move actually does is set up screenshots.

Squeenix is delusional and thinks it can get Call of Duty players to their games so they can have the same kinds of sales numbers.

Not even joking:
https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-xiii-creators-on-the-influence-of-call-of-5470533

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Turn based combat is garbage. Developers made the right choice to deviate from it.

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Square hasnt made a good single player rpg in more than a decade

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MuayThai85 posted...

Turn based combat is garbage. Developers made the right choice to deviate from it.

I fell in love with the genre through turn-based RPGs...and I agree. Games have enough complexity now that it's not particularly necessary, and any new game that uses it today feels like a retro throwback.

FFVII:R is how it should be implemented: real-time combat, with an ATB meter for items and spells. I grew up playing FF, but Remake's battle system had more depth and excitement than any of the previous classic games.

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Hayame Zero posted...

FFVII:R is how it should be implemented: real-time combat, with an ATB meter for items and spells.

It just seems like running around doing chip-damage is largely cosmetic, when the meaningful actions happen on "turns" anyway.

Hayame Zero posted...

I fell in love with the genre through turn-based RPGs...and I agree. Games have enough complexity now that it's not particularly necessary, and any new game that uses it today feels like a retro throwback.

FFVII:R is how it should be implemented: real-time combat, with an ATB meter for items and spells. I grew up playing FF, but Remake's battle system had more depth and excitement than any of the previous classic games.

Felt super clunky to me. If it wasn't going to be turn based, I would have preferred full action to that hybrid.

After playing the demo I chose not to buy.

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COVxy posted...

Felt super clunky to me. If it wasn't going to be turn based, I would have preferred full action to that hybrid.

After playing the demo I chose not to buy.

Its probably one of the best combat systems modern Square has come up with. On hard mode, its superb and theres plenty of depth. One of the only issues is air combat.

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Apocalyptic posted...

Its probably one of the best combat systems modern Square has come up with. On hard mode, its superb and theres plenty of depth. One of the only issues is air combat.

Air combat only sucks with Cloud / Tifa. Barrett / Aerith have no problem.

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Apocalyptic posted...

Its probably one of the best combat systems modern Square has come up with. On hard mode, its superb and theres plenty of depth. One of the only issues is air combat.

I don't necessarily care about depth if it isn't fun. I just wasn't having fun. Felt like a chore.

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IDK man grinding out the beginning of the Shinra tower to get everyone to level 50 was some of the most fun I'd had.


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FF7 Remake combat was clunky as hell. Turn based combat is always good. FF needs to go back to that.

ultimate reaver posted...

Square hasnt made a good single player rpg in more than a decade

That's just flat out wrong.
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Etrian Odyssey, Fire Emblem, and Bravely series are the turn based combat systems I really like.
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If it ain't turn based, it ain't an RPG in my book. The whole thing that makes them fun and unique for me is it being a chess match rather than button mashing.

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EffectAndCause posted...

If it ain't turn based, it ain't an RPG in my book. The whole thing that makes them fun and unique for me is it being a chess match rather than button mashing.

Yeah I hate RPGs that's why I play games like Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Star Ocean, and Tales of...

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My understanding is that this was their take back when Final Fantasy XIII was new. For what it's worth, I think they finally hit that mark of quality with FF7:R, and I can only imagine how FF16 is gonna feel if they refine this system further - but it took the entirety of the 2010's for them to get to this point.

There's still room in the world for turn-based combat, though.

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EffectAndCause posted...

If it ain't turn based, it ain't an RPG in my book. The whole thing that makes them fun and unique for me is it being a chess match rather than button mashing.

Guess Final Fantasy IV-VII aren't RPGs then

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Pokmon: if it ain't broke, don't fix it

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MrMallard posted...

My understanding is that this was their take back when Final Fantasy XIII was new. For what it's worth, I think they finally hit that mark of quality with FF7:R, and I can only imagine how FF16 is gonna feel if they refine this system further - but it took the entirety of the 2010's for them to get to this point.

There's still room in the world for turn-based combat, though.

FF16 looks more like a standard single character action RPG. IDK what the fuck they were going with for FF15 but it didn't work.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

FF16 looks more like a standard single character action RPG. IDK what the fuck they were going with for FF15 but it didn't work.

FF15 with 7:R's gameplay would have been good. As it stands, I see 15 as a later-stage development on the way to 7:R - like the Wii U of the family.

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Garioshi posted...

Guess Final Fantasy IV-VII aren't RPGs then

The "RPG" label has lost all meaning in the last 10 years or so.

I'm only interested in turn based ones because that is what makes them actually unique and is their main appeal for me.

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COVxy posted...

I don't necessarily care about depth if it isn't fun. I just wasn't having fun. Felt like a chore.

That is unfortunate but you should just say that you did not enjoy it next time. That combat system is the complete opposite of clunky.

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Mystery_Mission posted...

FF7 Remake combat was clunky as hell. Turn based combat is always good. FF needs to go back to that.

Lol, there are plenty of crappy turn based games out there. No gameplay style is "always good".

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Dragon quest is still turn based, they just made it so you can move your character around for those hyperactive types.

I'll have to give DQ11 a fair go when it comes out on Game Pass.

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Action based game can be very fun. Star Ocean and Tales have fun combat that is very engaging.

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EffectAndCause posted...

The "RPG" label has lost all meaning in the last 10 years or so.

I'm only interested in turn based ones because that is what makes them actually unique and is their main appeal for me.

but do you consider FFIV-VII to be RPGs

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Questionmarktarius posted...

It just seems like running around doing chip-damage is largely cosmetic, when the meaningful actions happen on "turns" anyway.

It's basically cinematic like Squeenix wants, but it's not mindless button mashing like FFXV and actually requires strategy and quick thinking. I love 7R's combat system.
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Yeah, I remember them being right.

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I'm sorry, but turn-based combat ruins the flow of RPGs for me.

For me, I can't just take a hit from an enemy and hit them back only to win because I'm stronger or have more endurent. I have to dodge or block their attack, then counter-strike. I used to be so OCD about it (clinically diagnosed, back off) that I'd flat out reset an RPG if a boss fight ended with me taking a hit from my opponent and hitting them back. Especially if I'd just used a healing power-up or cast some sort of invulnerability spell.

I know that's not the programmer's fault, but I still prefer competitive victories to *trades punches* "I have 1,800 HP left and you have 0. I win."

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I mean, they're not wrong. It is unpopular as clearly shown by the vast majority of games being real time and most turn based games being niche as fuck. It was used back in the day to emulate DnD and because real time combat was way harder to do. The only reason devs still do it is for nostalgia. Larian are the only ones doing anything new with these. Their games have a ton more interactiviety and tactics you can do using the environment and tools as opposed to everyone just standing in a circle and whacking each other. If you're not going to utilize the slower pace to make a game that actually uses diverse tactics, you might as well just not.

BakonBitz posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

It just seems like running around doing chip-damage is largely cosmetic, when the meaningful actions happen on "turns" anyway.

It's basically cinematic like Squeenix wants, but it's not mindless button mashing like FFXV and actually requires strategy and quick thinking. I love 7R's combat system.

7R's combat system is the true evolution of the ATB system.the combat almost looks exactly like Advent Children also. The only thing I really want for 7R part 2 is the addition of a gambit system.
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Apocalyptic posted...

That is unfortunate but you should just say that you did not enjoy it next time. That combat system is the complete opposite of clunky.

I did not have fun because it felt clunky. Navigating menus while trying to be an action RPG is just annoying, the two sets of behaviors required are very different, one with a player reference frame and one from a menu reference frame, which means you need to constantly switch between them. That makes it feel annoyingly like task switching.

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ultimate reaver posted...

Square hasnt made a good

That's right. Square never made anything good. Ever.
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When did SE say that? Other than FF which is pretty garbage now, they are going back with BD series. DQ has always been the same. Though I am sad that Falcom is going more action with the Trails series....

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philsov posted...

Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default both say hello

Which was such a tease, too! Like, if enemy range is a thing or zone of control or this somehow affecting AoE it'd be great! Instead it's nonimpactful and I toggled to standard view with no movement within a few minutes of gameplay

I recently played one of the Neptunia games and they actually did something like this. Its turn based, but you can move around freely, but all the attacks, even the standard ones, have ranges and aoe so you can noodle around with positioning and zoning to have some fun.

surprisingly fun for a waifu-bait rpg >_>

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Endgame posted...

That's right. Square never made anything good. Ever.

much like you and posts

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