Board 8 > King of Fighters 2020 (NOT MERCS) R4D1: The Beast vs Mario (Low)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Welcome to Pacific Time

The game is simple. The two* listed characters are placed in an (imaginary) location with a variety of (imaginary) environments, kind of like a picture in a child's schoolbook that describes different types of geological features. Within a ten mile radius, there is an (imaginary) urban downtown, exurbs, plains, snow-clad mountains at the edge, dry plains, etc. Fighters start wherever is most appropriate for them, but feel increasingly compelled to seek out their opponent and fight. Strong-willed fighters can try to hold out in their chosen environment for longer... eventually, all will succumb and actively search for the other to battle.

To participate, just vote in bold for whichever character you believe will win. Giving reasoning is optional, but please be polite and read what others have said and carefully make your decision. I'll ping the nominators (they can opt out) to give arguments if they wish.

Results/Discussion: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78971300

TODAY'S PARTICIPANTS:
The Beast (Kung Fu Hustle)


vs

Mario (Mario)


@GavsEvans123 @PrinceKaro

FIGHT

---

The Beast

Willing to be convinced Mario has a shot by turbo Mario lore masters but otherwise I think this is a stomp. The Beast was horrendously mistiered and would've been a solid Mid entrant.

---

Mario is nowhere near low tier either, even without his giant powerup collection he's strong enough to trade hits with Bowser

he also has toon force shenanigans for days like getting squashed flat and walking it off, picking up whole castles and chucking them, surviving point blank explosions and terminal velocity falls, etc etc

The Beast is somehow the more grounded fighter of the two and factoring in Mario's powerups makes me feel pretty confident that he has an edge here

---

Thing is, none of those things happen in cutscenes. Most can be chalked up to gameplay mechanics. 'Cutscene Mario' tends to be pretty grounded overall. This is in contrast to Wario, who is highly toonforce everywhere. So it's hard for me to take Mario seriously, because he kind of doesn't...have verifiable feats, mostly.

---

Eh? The castle chucking exclusively happens in Mario World cutscenes

---

DeathChicken posted...

Eh? The castle chucking exclusively happens in Mario World cutscenes

Can I get a link to that one? I don't think I've ever seen it. Like I said, open to being convinced!

---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Thing is, none of those things happen in cutscenes. Most can be chalked up to gameplay mechanics.

Wait, havent you been arguing gameplay mechanics for other video game characters?

---

https://youtu.be/IMI7lFWdhps?t=178

Yep, that's mario just picking up and casually dropkicking fortress #7 after going in and beating the snot out of everyone.

Mario

He's fought things the world over, monsters bigger than him, monsters faster than him, monsters stronger than him... this would just be one more thing honestly. He has so much generic experience that changing the words Jack of all trades to King of all trades would be a reasonable assumption to Mario. Also you can't really play to Mario's sense of mercy, for he goes through the castles, wrecks everything, and casually leaves to go to the next place to do his work of going to new lands, looting them, befriending a few random critters, and wrecking an evil plot.

redrocket posted...

Wait, havent you been arguing gameplay mechanics for other video game characters?

No? I can't think of any example. The two videogame characters I made arguments for were the Doomslayer and Cloud, and both of them have their stuff justified by lore (materia is canonical, the Slayer's health pickups have a lore appearance). I can't think of anyone else who had relevant gameplay stuff.

---

Oh yeah, and Change to Mario

That seems pretty convincing!

---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

No? I can't think of any example. The two videogame characters I made arguments for were the Doomslayer and Cloud, and both of them have their stuff justified by lore (materia is canonical, the Slayer's health pickups have a lore appearance). I can't think of anyone else who had relevant gameplay stuff.

Materia, as a general concept, is canon. Cloud can use Shield to give himself temporary invulnerability, specifically, is not. Especially when you are arguing that as his go to strategy!

---

Mario

---

redrocket posted...

Materia, as a general concept, is canon. Cloud can use Shield to give himself temporary invulnerability, specifically, is not. Especially when you are arguing that as his go to strategy!

I used it as an example because it's the biggest blowout, not the only way to win. I listed like, five different possible materia usages Cloud could employ to give himself a leg-up, from hasting himself to quadrupling his magical defenses (and physical ones), using the debuff cocktails he has access to, to just healing himself to effectively negate anything that didn't kill him, in case Shield was implausible. I didn't even go into Command and Summon materia cause it was overkill, either. My argumenting scheme is very simple: present the easiest solution, then list additional ones in case anyone thinks it is improbable. Is that a problem?

---

Mario

---

The Beast doesn't have a chance. He's not wearing a hat!

>_>

I was wondering if anyone would bring up Cappy lol.

Mario

it feels like he's been undersold this entire contest (even though he keeps winning...) so it's nice to see some actual respect for him. I won't forget the arguments that he would lose to a teleporting seagull <_<

---

Mario

As said he is deceptively crazy strong and probably doesn't belong in low tier depending on what you take into account.

---

In terms of reflexes, the Beast is superior, and I'm honestly leaning toward the Beast for that reason. Mario is more maneuverable and versatile, but does the Beast hit harder than Bowser? Maybe. I could see the Beast getting in a good hit and sending Mario flying clear across the arena, and I don't know if he could handle that. In Super Mario Odyssey he survives a fall from the clouds with no visible damage, but he was still knocked unconscious.

Him getting launched off of a New York Donk City skyscraper seems like a better comparison to what the Beast could do to him. He lands on his feet:

https://gfycat.com/lamespectacularanemoneshrimp

---

Mario

I tend to lean away from SMW Mario as that's an outlier among his showings and leans heavily into toonforce beyond what the Mario series usually does, but the Bowser Toss as his minimum force output still puts him at 'ridiculously superhuman' in strength. Plus the guy's got some damn good durability (surviving falling out of Bowser's Flying Bathtub from the top of Corona Mountain after landing on his face comes to mind), at minimum Ultra Fire for a ranged AoE option, and pretty decent reflex showings all around.

Beast's really damn good, but I don't see Mario not landing a punch that doesn't break bones. And then it goes downhill from that point.

---

Hmm, that's fair about the skyscraper. So maybe the Beast sends him flying but it doesn't do any lasting damage, and Mario comes back with something like the Metal Cap, which probably breaks the Beast's hand if he tries punching it.

I also agree that if Mario can get in a good punch, the Beast goes down - I just have a hard time getting past the Beast's reaction time. He's able to catch a bullet, and Mario's much slower than that. I could see the Beast wearing Mario down eventually - but Mario has the Metal Cap, and that could be the deciding factor.

Mario, but not feeling super confident.

I think the key thing is that Mario has ways to juke and trick the Beast. Off the top of my head, he has the invisibility cap, he can use Cappy to potentially possess the Beast and KO him with a reckless move, special hammers to cause quakes or whatever...he's versatile, and that means he has a lot of ways to earn his victory. The Beast is really good, sure, but is he good enough that he can overcome a bag of tricks as large as the moustached man's is?

---