Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 349: Rudy Can't Fail

(+) Yeah! (+)

The office is, yes. The President of the United States should receive the highest standard of care that the United States can manage. Rudy Giulani is not the President. He's not even a government employee; he's Trump's personal lawyer. And when Trump leverages his authority as the country's highest ranking public servant to get preferential treatment for his private employees, he deserves to catch some crap for it.
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Aecioo posted...

well... yeah

he's the president

this would have happened no matter what president in history was in charge

Rudy is not the president.

Trump receiving the super effective treatment is expected and, despite my disdain for the man, appropriate.

The personal lawyer receiving the super effective treatment is inappropriate because it serves no public good and is straightforward cronyism.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

By pure numbers, not ratio, how many peoples lives are ruined by alcohol in this country versus heroin? It's not even remotely close.

If you expand that to include all opiates, I bet its opiates
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Jakyl25 posted...

If you expand that to include all opiates, I bet its opiates

I would push back against this strongly, but I don't have the numbers. Just find that difficult to believe nationally.

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I think alcohol problems dwarf opiate problems.

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I guess it depends on your definition of ruined
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

we can objectively prove that food and drink are essential for staying alive because without them, you stop living.

Buffalo Wild Wings Boneless Spicy Mambo with a Passion Fruit Margarita combo is essential for staying alive?

If you're really talking about ESSENTIAL, it's extremely minimal and uncomfortable. We could all just survive off rice and water. So why do we need restaurants open? The fact is, it's for comfort. Which is entirely subjective.

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MalcolmMasher posted...

The office is, yes. The President of the United States should receive the highest standard of care that the United States can manage. Rudy Giulani is not the President. He's not even a government employee; he's Trump's personal lawyer. And when Trump leverages his authority as the country's highest ranking public servant to get preferential treatment for his private employees, he deserves to catch some crap for it.

Do you really think every president we've ever had doesn't also make sure friends, family, and staff isn't also well cared for? Like Trump is a moron but you're making up a problem that's not even there.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

what's "essential" isn't a matter of opinion. if you can survive without going to a bar, bars are evidently not essential to you. (and this is coming from someone who went to bars almost every weekend before covid.)

If physical survival is the standard, then schools are not essential. And lawyers are definitely not essential under that standard, but the State of California thinks they are.

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neonreaper posted...

I think alcohol problems dwarf opiate problems.

Really concerned at how oblivious you guys are. Lol.

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Corrik7 posted...

Really concerned at how oblivious you guys are. Lol.

I guess again it depends on how you define problems, which is probably much different than ruined life.

Like, I have a caffeine problem since if I stopped using it I would have withdrawal symptoms. You had an alcohol problem when you got DUIs. Neither one of those would probably count as ruined lives.
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Jakyl25 posted...

I guess again it depends on how you define problems, which is probably much different than ruined life.

Like, I have a caffeine problem since if I stopped using it I would have withdrawal symptoms. You had an alcohol problem when you got DUIs. Neither one of those would probably count as ruined lives.

It's simple. Heroin is literally an epidemic. People with very little history were dying in astronomical numbers for a good bit of time to the point we declared it a national emergency. Someone will say but drunk drivers! Heroin drivers are even worse! It isn't really debatable to anyone who knows what they are talking about.

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These are crazy opinions, but at least people recognize they're crazy.

You can drink wine a couple times a month out at dinner and it will have absolutely no effect on the well being of your life. There is no one that is doing meth at the Olive Garden with family just once in a while over garlic bread. These are two different classes of vices.

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red sox 777 posted...

If physical survival is the standard, then schools are not essential.

i agree!

i'm not here to argue that schools should open while bars should stay closed, i'm just saying that what's essential is not subjective. just because i think having a mansion with 300 rooms is "essential" doesn't mean it is and that i'm entitled to a mansion with 300 rooms. if we're using that logic, all we're doing is rendering the word "essential" completely meaningless.


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Do you really think every president we've ever had doesn't also make sure friends, family, and staff isn't also well cared for?

I am certain that every President we've had has at some point used their power selfishly. That doesn't mean that selfish use of power deserves our approval, rather than our scorn.
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its odd to post about alcohol and opiates on board 8 and be called oblivious. Times they are a changing

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Couple things about my stance.

First, I'm completely aware it's an absolutely ridiculous and absurd stance regarding drugs and alcohol. I'm not pretending it's some woke reality. I'm absolutely fucking crazy, and people are in the right to shit on me for it.

Two, my direct comparison of them all being just as bad is directly tied into availability and acceptance. If it was en even playing field, of course alcohol would not be as extreme or devastating as something like heroin. But it ISN'T an even playing field, because alcohol is wildly accepted and abused by millions in the nation. By pure numbers, not ratio, how many peoples lives are ruined by alcohol in this country versus heroin? It's not even remotely close.

I know it's an argument full of holes and one that influenced by personal experience that in itself comes from a place of privilege from my lot in life, but it's not something I can shake. Would rather admit that then backpedal.

i mean, if you acknowledge an argument is entirely flawed, and your opinion only exists because of your specific situation and believes that cannot be generalized, i think the better solution than posting it and defending it with disclaimers, or even retracting the opinion after it gets called out, is to, like, not post it at all

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thats boring tho

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What he said.

Though realistically it's a cat's outta the bag situation. Probably would have been best not to post it in the first place, but since I did I at least had an obligation to explain it. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily gonna try and argue it moving forward.

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fair. i'm just of the opinion that the last thing this topic needs is more arguments that inherently can't end in dialectical resolution

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NFUN posted...

fair. i'm just of the opinion that the last thing this topic needs is more arguments that inherently can't end in dialectical resolution

Naw I'm not gonna try and push this, just a bit of a vent.

I just got triggered hardcore by Sox' "bars are more important than schools" shit, and it though me off.

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https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-trump-secures-another-peace-deal-between-israel-and-an-arab-nation

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There is no one that is doing meth at the Olive Garden with family just once in a while over garlic bread. These are two different classes of vices.

Idk I think you may be underestimating how many people in the average Olive Garden are on meth
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Hmm the chicken marsala looks good. I think I am gonna do some meth with that. Anyone else want some meth to go with dinner? Hell yeahz

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Jakyl25 posted...

Like, I have a caffeine problem since if I stopped using it I would have withdrawal symptoms. You had an alcohol problem when you got DUIs. Neither one of those would probably count as ruined lives.

Speaking of which, I had an extremely persistent headache a few days ago that I suspect was caffeine withdrawal (it was the first day I hadn't had any for quite a while, and it finally went away after I brewed some tea at 1am in desperation)...!

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Speaking of which, I had an extremely persistent headache a few days ago that I suspect was caffeine withdrawal (it was the first day I hadn't had any for quite a while, and it finally went away after I brewed some tea at 1am in desperation)...!

Caffeine withdrawal is just like maybe 12 to 24 hours. Once you are through it you are good. Pretty weak fucking withdrawal tbqh.

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Corrik7 posted...

Caffeine withdrawal is just like maybe 12 to 24 hours. Once you are through it you are good. Pretty weak fucking withdrawal tbqh.

Yeah I know it's a very mild withdrawal compared to other drugs. I was just confused that my headache was lasting so long and not responding to advil like usual until I guessed at the cause!

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Corrik7 posted...

Hmm the chicken marsala looks good. I think I am gonna do some meth with that. Anyone else want some meth to go with dinner? Hell yeahz

You gotta think of it from the logic of someone who does meth not from the logic of someone who likes mediocre Italian food
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LordoftheMorons posted...

Yeah I know it's a very mild withdrawal compared to other drugs. I was just confused that my headache was lasting so long and not responding to advil like usual until I guessed at the cause!

Acetimenophin usually takes care of that headache.

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https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/10/coronavirus-stimulus-relief-impasse-444320

McConnell shoots down the bipartisan COVID proposal.The $900bn one that had the liability shield.

gee it's like mcconnell doesn't want to get relief passed at all and he just comes up with a new excuse each time a new deal actually starts meeting his old excuse

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xp1337 posted...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/10/coronavirus-stimulus-relief-impasse-444320

McConnell shoots down the bipartisan COVID proposal.The $900bn one that had the liability shield.

gee it's like mcconnell doesn't want to get relief passed at all and he just comes up with a new excuse each time a new deal actually starts meeting his old excuse

I, for one, am absolutely shocked!!

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Why would anyone expect McConnell to negotiate at all? The GOP has all the leverage here. Frankly, if the Dems really want a stimulus package to pass they should give businesses permanent liability against being sued by workers for any reason (COVID-related or not) and order most of the stimulus funds to be given directly to GOP officials. McConnell might let that pass.
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McConnell has never agreed to anything above 500B. He's the bad cop to President Trump's good cop. But he won reelection, and Trump didn't, so now we're just left with the bad cop.

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xp1337 posted...

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/10/coronavirus-stimulus-relief-impasse-444320

McConnell shoots down the bipartisan COVID proposal.The $900bn one that had the liability shield.

gee it's like mcconnell doesn't want to get relief passed at all and he just comes up with a new excuse each time a new deal actually starts meeting his old excuse

Yeah, but remember it's Nancy Pelosi's fault for not taking an even more generous deal earlier because McConnell totally would've accepted that one.

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So apparently after Ohio made their little statement saying "We're neutral guys whee," pretty much every other remaining state filed an amicus brief supporting the defendants in that Texas lawsuit.

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Will take this moment to once again state my most ridiculous extreme stance that the bars should just stay closed permenantly and alcohol should be banned.

Samurai7 posted...

America tried that already

Holy ****

Was Prohibition in response to the assholes who wanted to party without care spreading the flu to whomever as long as they cpuld go out and drink and socialize like they weren't in a pandemic??

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

I consider alcohol the same as heroine or cocaine.

I do too! None of them should be illegal. Same goes for Prostitution. Decriminalize it all.

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I definitely think heroine and cocaine should stay illegal. There's a huge gap between those and alcohol/weed/whatever.

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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/michigan-democrat-threatens-trump-supporters-on-facebook-live-and-calls-on-soldiers-to-make-them-pay

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Legalize all drugs above a certain age, but keep them the same as alcohol wherein driving, working, and being in public on them is still frowned upon.

When the drugs are illegal, addicts can't get help without risking a lot.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

When the drugs are illegal, addicts can't get help without risking a lot.

I think there is a huge overestimation on how many addicts want help. They don't want help, they just want more drugs.

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red13n posted...

I think there is a huge overestimation on how many addicts want help. They don't want help, they just want more drugs.

Woooooow


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TotallyNotMI posted...

Woooooow

going to guess you have 0 personal experience with this subject.

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Drug use and possession should be decriminalized. Drug production and distribution should remain illegal. Addiction is a health issue, not a criminal issue. It's far past time we started treating it as such.

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red13n posted...

I think there is a huge overestimation on how many addicts want help. They don't want help, they just want more drugs.

Source: dude, trust me.

But in all seriousness, what's the benefit to addicts and the community to force them to go to unregulated dopeboys and do illegal shit for their fix? There has to be a better way.

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Not_an_Owl posted...

Drug use and possession should be decriminalized. Drug production and distribution should remain illegal. Addiction is a health issue, not a criminal issue. It's far past time we started treating it as such.

The problem with this is we need a middle ground where we can decriminalize but also still need to be able to get possession away from these drug users. Basically, its not as simple as "Decriminalize". If you say, stick a drug user in rehab, they come home and their stash was totally untouched, theres significant risk.

So there has to be some form of middle ground here. Its not a simple answer. "Decriminalize" just leaves a lot of people in trash situations. If you don't change the rest of the system at the same time you arent helping anyone.

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Prohibition does not reduce the usage of those drugs. It also discourages people who want help, from seeking help. Making production and distribution illegal only gives police an excuse for arresting people. The whole 'with intent to sell' bullshit.

I'm okay with requiring rehabilitation for addicts. I'm not okay with criminalizing any of this.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Source: dude, trust me.

But in all seriousness, what's the benefit to addicts and the community to force them to go to unregulated dopeboys and do illegal shit for their fix? There has to be a better way.

My dad was a heroin addict dude.

Only way he got clean of heroin was literally being thrown in prison for a year. Yes, not every case, forcing a dude in rehab would have been potentially just as good. But these drugs destroy their desire for anything but those drugs. It doesn't matter where they are getting them from.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Prohibition does not reduce the usage of those drugs. It also discourages people who want help, from seeking help. Making production and distribution illegal only gives police an excuse for arresting people. The whole 'with intent to sell' bullshit.

I'm okay with requiring rehabilitation for addicts. I'm not okay with criminalizing any of this.

I think I actually like the middle ground. Where technically it is "Criminal" but the penalty is forced time in rehab rather than jail. Its the punitive system that is the problem.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Prohibition does not reduce the usage of those drugs. It also discourages people who want help, from seeking help. Making production and distribution illegal only gives police an excuse for arresting people. The whole 'with intent to sell' bullshit.

I'm okay with requiring rehabilitation for addicts. I'm not okay with criminalizing any of this.

Exactly.

There's zero reason drugs and drug use should be criminalized, the criminal justice system perpetuates illegal drug use itself, so criminalizing drugs just puts these people in an endless cycle.

Where I'm ok with it being criminal is when users do drugs and then commit actual crimes (same as with alcohol), like neglect, abuse, or operating a vehicle, and that's out of necessity of protecting others.

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