Current Events > How can people hate on tlou2?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yazarogi posted...

youre not even referencing the moment in the video Im talking about, which isnt E3 footage.

go to the 1 minute mark, thats active game play.

That is an E3 bullshot demo (the entire thing) set up specifically to make it look more interesting than it is. 100%. I've played the game. I've been around long enough to know how E3 demos are set up and how the games change once they release.

Here's the example from TLOU1:

https://youtu.be/kbLOokeC3VU?t=369

Gameplay demo from E3 2012. This end section with the shotgun is not in the final game, nor are any of the animations and scenarios presented in that small bit. Why? To make it seem more personal, interesting, and cooler than it was.

Why are you falling for it?

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UnfairRepresent posted...

This is such a lame defense

"IT doesn't matter that it's dull bland and generic because it didn't market itself on not being dull bland and generic."

Not only do I disagree, this entire rabbit hole stemmed from a guy claiming it's combat was unique and innovative, so you're just disagreeing with that.

I also think "Well other games didn't bother isn't" isn't a rebuttal of a game being dull, bland and generic.

It's just same old shit with 0 new ideas.

I never said it was dull, bland or generic.

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Fuck this fucking sniper

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Dude, Im pretty sure youre not watching the video I posted, it wasnt a scripted event in the slightest even though those DO exist in the game.

i had moments like that in the game, did you play it?

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https://twitter.com/SunhiLegend/status/1275800655228215296?s=19

Call it innovative or not but I can't think of another AAA shooter with this level of animation work while also not controlling like ass or feeling sluggish to play.

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Darmik posted...

https://twitter.com/SunhiLegend/status/1275800655228215296?s=19

Call it innovative or not but I can't think of another AAA shooter with this level of animation work while also not controlling like ass or feeling sluggish to play.

yoooo

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Just curious as I couldn't really remember it being spelled out in the previous posts (and zoned out in regards to the CP2077 discussion) basically repeating that it is dull, bland and generic: in what way? I saw the references to other games, but is it just that it isn't innovative in it's combat or is there something else?

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Manny got got. Damn.

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even though he spit on my boy Joel, I still liked Manny.


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g0ldie posted...

even though he spit on my boy Joel, I still liked Manny.

He was a terrorist, like Isaac, Abby, and the rest of the WLFs.

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Total_Lost2 posted...

Just curious as I couldn't really remember it being spelled out in the previous posts (and zoned out in regards to the CP2077 discussion) basically repeating that it is dull, bland and generic: in what way? I saw the references to other games, but is it just that it isn't innovative in it's combat or is there something else?

It's kinda all of it.

Same old combat, same old stealth, same old crafting, same old weapons, same old enemy AI, same old See through walls vision, same old take downs.

No new game mechanics, no reference to Ellie being a little girl, she plays the same as large male trained mercs from other games.

That's the dull bland, generic. It's just what we've done in other games again. And if you've played other games it's so familar and easy and plain.

Fry Cry 3 is 8 years old and was more innovative, Deus Ex HR is 9 years old and more innovative.

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Manny was my fave character

Well 2nd to the dog.

He was the only character in the game who wasn't an inconsistent idiot.

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tommy is the sniper huh

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lww99 posted...

tommy is the sniper huh

Heh I loved this section.

More games need you vs a scary sniper. They're always good.

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Literally an idiot plot.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotPlot

UnfairRepresent posted...

no reference to Ellie being a little girl

yep, you didnt play the game.

theres a whole few flashback segments where shes the younger version of herself.

museum, sniper training, SLC visit.

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Darmik posted...

Heh I loved this section.

More games need you vs a scary sniper. They're always good.

definitely! I enjoyed this one more than Ellies.

MGS always did well with them too

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TendoDRM posted...

He was a terrorist, like Isaac, Abby, and the rest of the WLFs.

I think as a former Firefly, he was a terrorist, but as a WLF soldier, I'm not so sure.

like, Isaac is a bad guy, but the WLF seem like they're trying to bring back some kinda sense of normalcy to society.

if they weren't in conflict with the Seraphites, then I don't think they would be as antagonistic.

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Yazarogi posted...

yep, you didnt play the game.

theres a whole few flashback segments where shes the younger version of herself.

museum, sniper training, SLC visit.

I think he means she plays the same. But even then they give her a knife and her kills and animations do indeed reflect her size. Guess he wants a different gameplay style with her or something but it's Unfair. He likes to whine and get into arguments over his whining.

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TheShadowViper posted...

Literally an idiot plot.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IdiotPlot

Agreed

lww99 posted...

definitely! I enjoyed this one more than Ellies.

MGS always did well with them too

The End was such a fun idea for a boss fight.

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Yazarogi posted...

Dude, Im pretty sure youre not watching the video I posted, it wasnt a scripted event in the slightest even though those DO exist in the game.

i had moments like that in the game, did you play it?

I've watched the video countless times when it was shown. I was extremely hyped. I probably watched it more than you did. I beat the game and the AI is not smart on at least hard. The part with Ellie where you need to steal the boat I had a pile of bodies in the same spot and the idiots just kept coming. The animations are top notch, but ND has been the king of them for a long time now. I've had plenty of scary and intense encounters and you've missed the point where I said I enjoy how the game plays.

You also seemed to have missed the entire rest of the post talking about how they manipulate media in a particular way to make it seem cooler than it is for E3. It's a trick as old as time. I gave the exact part from the E3 trailer played by some random guy and it's not at all the same way, especially the end (which you mention being tossed around dynamically which again, is scripted unlike your claim)

I'm getting tired of this. The game is very fun to play. It's not unique. That is basically it.

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Darmik posted...

I think he means she plays the same. But even then they give her a knife and her kills and animations do indeed reflect her size.

I actually liked that touch. But its exclusive to takedown moves

Guess he wants a different gameplay style with her or something

Would have been nice.

But the game was just full on generic gameplay. The TLOU1 DLC did the same thing.

but it's Unfair. He likes to whine and get into arguments over his whining.

"I have no counter so I will insult you."

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Darmik posted...

https://twitter.com/SunhiLegend/status/1275800655228215296?s=19

Call it innovative or not but I can't think of another AAA shooter with this level of animation work while also not controlling like ass or feeling sluggish to play.

Also, THIS is the gameplay video I saw at release that really showed me how cool the game is to play for real. I expected something like this, not a bullshot E3 demo.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

I actually liked that touch. But its exclusive to takedown moves

Melee combat as well. Also the general animations of the character.

Which basically covers everything where it would be relevant.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

Also, THIS is the gameplay video I saw would release that really showed me how cool the game is to play for real. I expected something like this, not a bullshit E3 demo.

E3 demos are all scripted unless the game is a couple of months away. I think it looks close enough personally. Held up better than TLOU1 and the Uncharted 4 reveal.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

It's kinda all of it.
Same old combat, same old stealth, same old crafting, same old weapons, same old enemy AI, same old See through walls vision, same old take downs.
No new game mechanics, no reference to Ellie being a little girl, she plays the same as large male trained mercs from other games.
That's the dull bland, generic. It's just what we've done in other games again. And if you've played other games it's so familar and easy and plain.
Fry Cry 3 is 8 years old and was more innovative, Deus Ex HR is 9 years old and more innovative.

Ah, in that case you and I seem to have difference of interpretation in regards to what makes something dull, bland and/or generic.

Also disagree with how Ellie plays as a large male (lacks the general "heavy" feel) and there is even a noticable difference between how you (or at least me) generally play(ed) with Ellie in comparison to Abby, who is much closer to the general large male merc (or more accurately Joel). Granted, someone skilled enough could negate this (such as those aggresive Ellie video's), but hey, that's what weapons are for.


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Darmik posted...

Melee combat as well. Also the general animations of the character.

Which basically covers everything where it would be relevant.

Except gameplay.

You know the thing we're talking about. Abby and Ellie gameplay was identical. Same as TLOU2 and every other game with the same deal

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Except gameplay.

You know the thing we're talking about. Abby and Ellie gameplay was identical. Same as TLOU2 and every other game with the same deal

Do you complain that Leon and Claire play the same in RE2?

I don't think characters need to drastically play different. The game is the game.

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Darmik posted...

Do you complain that Leon and Claire play the same in RE2?

I wish they did a little but at least they have different weapons.

Also not a fair comparison since the RE1 and 2 the different characters were designed for replay value.

I don't think characters need to drastically play different. The game is the game.

They don't "need" to.

But it's a shame they don't and just goes towards the game being generic.

You're being kinda ridiclous here. You took 1 of the many complaints about TLOU2 which is "The gameplay is incredibly generic"

Took one of the facets of that complaint "Everyone plays the same with no difference to who they are."

And then go "Well another game did that, therefore it's fine and all criticisms are wrong"

Which is crae.

It's still bland and generic

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Except gameplay.

You know the thing we're talking about. Abby and Ellie gameplay was identical. Same as TLOU2 and every other game with the same deal

holy shit youre flat wrong. They play differently, Ellie is small and wiry and it feels like that.

abby is heavier, her hits feel weightier.

not even mentioning the different items locked to each character.

also, @Kaldrenthebold I played the game, there are scripted events and then there is the phenomenal regular A.I.

youre obviously mixing up the two or you didnt play the game the same way (which is possible to do in this game) where you didnt encounter it the same way.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

I wish they did a little but at least they have different weapons.

So do Ellie and Abby

UnfairRepresent posted...

But it's a shame they don't and just goes towards the game being generic.

I just don't see the game being more innovative if Ellie played like a stealth game and Abby played like a brawler. Just doesn't seem like a good fit. Doesn't really fit the world of TLOU either when everyone fights dirty regardless of their strength.

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Darmik posted...

So do Ellie and Abby

Cool

I played Stealth so I didn't notice a thing.

Darmik posted...

I just don't see the game being more innovative if Ellie played like a stealth game and Abby played like a brawler. Just doesn't seem like a good fit. Doesn't really fit the world of TLOU either when everyone fights dirty regardless of their strength.

Strawman, I never said one had to a stealth and one had to a brawler.

I just said they didn't even bother to do anything other than the generic. Which is true.

There was 0 innovation. They didn't care because they knew their target audience didn't care.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Strawman, I never said one had to a stealth and one had to a brawler.

You haven't actually said what you think it should be at all. Just that it's bad and generic they are the same because uhh,,,?

UnfairRepresent posted...

There was 0 innovation. They didn't care because they knew their target audience didn't care.

So what were the innovative games from last year that you like again?

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Darmik posted...

You haven't actually said what you think it should be at all. Just that it's bad and generic they are the same because uhh,,,?

There's no ideas or innovation at all? It's just identical to every other game ever?

I was playing Primal from 2003 the other day and they made a concerted effort to make Jen and Scree play differently. That's 18 years old. The guy who voiced Scree is dead.

Darmik posted...

So what were the innovative games from last year that you like again?

I only played about a dozen games that came out last year and most of them were re-releases. Hell part of the problem is that the combat/stealth played exactly the same as Mafia 3 and Metro Redux.

At least Metro had the Gas Mask mechanic. They tried something, albeit not much.

I dunno why you think this is a defense of TLOU2 being bland tho.

Obra Dinn from 2019 is probably the most recent innovative game I can think of that I played. And that was largely 1 guy had more creativity and better character writing than the hundreds of millions of dollars that went into TLOU2 just to do same old same old.

Going back to my older point I can imagine Pavel and Kahn having a conversation about something that has nothing to do with the plot in Metro.

Can you imagine Jesse and Pregnant lady doing the same?
Or Ellie's girlfriend and Manny?

They only exist to fill spots on a trope checklist.

Fuck Pavel could run rings around anyone in The Last of US 1 or 2 in personality and he had like 20 minutes screen time

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UnfairRepresent posted...

There's no ideas or innovation at all? It's just identical to every other game ever?

It's not identical to every game ever though. Feel free to get gifs of Mafia and Metro that look as impressive as the one posted earlier. I've played Metro Exodus and it's nowhere near as dynamic as TLOU2. TLOU2 giving you the chance to flee and set up ambushes alone puts it in a unique position compared to the far majority of stealth action games while also not feeling like a janky game where enemies forget you after a few minutes.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Obra Dinn from 2019 is probably the most recent innovative game I can think of that I played. And that was largely 1 guy had more creativity and better character writing than the hundreds of millions of dollars that went into TLOU2 just to do same old same old.

Yeah indie and low budget games tend to be a bit more unique due to their lower budgets. If you only want innovation or uniqueness out of games stay away from AAA.

The rest of your point is typical drivel that isn't worth responding to.

You still haven't even said what you want the Ellie and Abby playstyles to be. There's a difference between whining and constructive criticism. Try the latter and you'll have more content worth responding to. See? I am making some constructive criticism.

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Feel bad for yara going through this village lol

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Darmik posted...

It's not identical to every game ever though. Feel free to get gifs of Mafia and Metro that look as impressive as the one posted earlier. I've played Metro Exodus and it's nowhere near as dynamic as TLOU2.

Try Metro Last Light. It's less janky than Exodus

And you've switched horses. "it's less dynamic" is absolutely unquantifable and a lazy evasion of the gameplay being the same.

Darmik posted...

Yeah indie and low budget games tend to be a bit more unique due to their lower budgets. If you only want innovation or uniqueness out of games stay away from AAA.

This is a weak ass defense. "Yeah it's generic, boring and bland but that's absolutely fine because it's Triple A"

Why does being Triple A give you a pass to being lazy and dull and generic as a criticism?

Hell you've switched horses. This started out as people claiming the gameplay was unique. Now you're admitting it's generic and dull but claiming it has no choice. Which isn't true.

The rest of your point is typical drivel that isn't worth responding to.

"I have no counter argument so I will insult you and run away"

Uhuh. Funny how none of the people making basic criticisms have to do that but all the people who claim to love the game do

You still haven't even said what you want the Ellie and Abby playstyles to be. There's a difference between whining and constructive criticism. Try the latter and you'll have more content worth responding to. See? I am making some constructive criticism.

The only content you're ignoring are the points you can't counter and it's obvious as fuck. Covering it with insults just makes you look childish.

You've turned the entire discussion about TLOU2 into a singlular point about it's dull combat and even then your "defense" is " some other games are dull too."

Which is silly.

You just can't retort even the most basic criticisms.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Try Metro Last Light. It's less janky than Exodus

Already played it. Has simple stealth mechanics. Enemies either know you're there or they don't. The enemies constantly hunting for you in TLOU2 gives it a different dynamic. It's also nowhere near as polished as TLOU2.

UnfairRepresent posted...

This is a weak ass defense. "Yeah it's generic, boring and bland but that's absolutely fine because it's Triple A"

Why does being Triple A give you a pass to being lazy and dull and generic as a criticism?

The statement is about you. I don't think innovation is the only thing that makes a game not generic, boring and bland. You seem to. That's why you're focusing on it. So the question here is if you really even enjoy AAA games. Perhaps you don't. If so these games are not for you. That's fine.

UnfairRepresent posted...

You've turned the entire discussion about TLOU2 into a singlular point about it's dull combat and even then your "defense" is " some other games are dull too."

I haven't said anything about any games having dull combat. You have.

Again you seem to think my impression that you don't enjoy AAA games means that I don't enjoy AAA games or that I think they're all boring. That isn't the case.

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Im almost 100% unfair isnt arguing in good faith, he says he provides examples but when a counter point is made hes like this isnt a defense

yeesh


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Yazarogi posted...

yeesh

This isn't a defence

sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

This isn't a defence

Get used to it

The defenses so far are:

1. Anypoint made is not "valid" for reasons I can't explain
2. "Another game did that too."

That's it. v_V

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Get used to it

The defenses so far are:

1. Anypoint made is not "valid" for reasons I can't explain
2. "Another game did that too."

That's it. v

and every criticism has been bland, boring same shit and yes, I was taking the dumb fanboy route which was dumb as fuck, Darmik has taken the better approach and refuted everything youve said about it.

we accept you dont like the game but you have to admit a few of your criticisms have been refuted. Refuted as in, other examples have been provided which you seemingly give them a pass but because its this specific game its somehow worse.

that doesnt make sense.


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Yazarogi posted...

Darmik has taken the better approach and refuted everything youve said about it.

No he hasn't.

Darmik posted...

Yeah indie and low budget games tend to be a bit more unique due to their lower budgets. If you only want innovation or uniqueness out of games stay away from AAA.

The rest of your point is typical drivel that isn't worth responding to.

That was Darmik's "refute"

"I'm not going to respond to any of those points and other games are dull too so it's not fair to call this one dull"

GGOA did the same thing too.

None of you can actually respond to even the most basic questions about the game.

But at least you admit you're acting like a dumb fanboy.

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Man this game does a great job of making you empathize with everyone.

just walked into the Aquarium with sev, after the island trip

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Unfair, you havent said a single god damn thing to change any bodies mind in this topic.

why are you still here? Just to argue and be a condescending jerk?

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lww99 posted...

Man this game does a great job of making you empathize with everyone.

just walked into the Aquarium with sev, after the island trip

I agree.

doing that part with Ellie, I was like, "damn, that's really messed up, but it was a heat of the moment kinda thing, and at least Ellie was torn up about it"

doing it with Abby, I was like, "maaan...fuck Ellie," lol

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I quite like how the aquarium becomes a pretty significant central location for several characters. Starts off as a creepy abandoned place but just bounces between tragedy and happiness from there. If the hospital was this for TLOU1 the iconic place for 2 is definitely the aquarium. So much significant stuff happens there.

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g0ldie posted...

I agree.

doing that part with Ellie, I was like, "damn, that's really messed up, but it was a heat of the moment kinda thing, and at least Ellie was torn up about it"

doing it with Abby, I was like, "maaan...fuck Ellie," lol

nailed it lol


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Tough final showdown

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They never played the game. TLOU2 is one of the greatest games released in this day and age.

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Dark_SilverX posted...

They never played the game. TLOU2 is one of the greatest games released in this day and age.

I played the game. IT was completely mediocre and generic

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