Current Events > So why do people usually not stay 20 years in the military?

(+) Yeah! (+)

IIRC, if you stay and stick it out for 20 years, you get a retirement pension for the rest of your life plus health care from them

Not to mention, you can still work if you want while collecting a pension if I remember right

Sounds like a good deal to me IMO to stay for 20 years and be set for life after

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Hard on the mind and body.

When youre in the military, in theory at least, youre supposed to put your own needs last. Mission first, subordinates and peers second, yourself last. Its hard to live like that for 20 years.

Thats why I only did 8 years. Got the majority of the experience I wanted with what was available and wanted to start focusing on myself again.

I was unaware that 20 years were needed. I do know some people that joined the military just and now live off those payments without doing anything. Like whole family (dad + 3 kids).

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gamer167 posted...

Hard on the mind and body.

When youre in the military, in theory at least, youre supposed to put your own needs last. Mission first, subordinates and peers second, yourself last. Its hard to live like that for 20 years.

Thats why I only did 8 years. Got the majority of the experience I wanted with what was available and wanted to start focusing on myself again.

Wow its really that miserable in the military? I almost joined the navy 10 years ago.

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because the military is fucking stupid and exploits kids, young adults, and those with literally no other option and spits them back out with PTSD and other issues

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How good is the 20 year pension?

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@wackyteen 's input is ideal here.

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ReDaZnDraGoN97 posted...

Wow its really that miserable in the military?

Id be careful of equating difficult with miserable. Something can be difficult, but still very much worth the effort and even enjoyable.

Anecdotally, I know many Sailors and Airmen who loved their time in the service, but they also got enough training or education via the military to pursue other career options. They also travelled quite a bit through change of station and deployments, so they decided to buy a house and settle their families there.


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They may not be allowed to stay. The military can kick you out at 19 years 11 months, and you get nothing and are 20 years behind your peers in the civilian workforce.

There are no guarantees.

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I got bored after my first contract(8 years). I did my deployment and after I came back I wasnt feeling it. I didnt want to suit up all the time, my last 2 years I was doing reserves and it was just a hassle. The monthly drill always came up at the worst times possible. Birthdays, family vacations, etc..

worked my time I was in and got my benefits and va disability

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My dad has been in the Guard for about 40 years

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I think it might be tough to stick it out that long. I'm just about at 20 years at my regular job and it feels like I've been there almost forever. My kids have grown (and joined the military) and I'm working with a bunch of people who weren't even born yet when I started. I can't picture myself personally staying 20 years in the military.

008Zulu posted...

How good is the 20 year pension?

really roughly speaking it seems like for enlisted, ~$2500 a month. For officers ~$5000 a month.

just going off what Ive hear

I served 4 and was done, I didn't want another 16. Sometimes you are basically working 16 to 18 hour days 7 days a week, for weeks, it's was at times, work, eat, sleep and the pay was shit. Granted you are housed and fed, so you really aren't paying out much except for personal hygiene products, shoes/boots, and getting your uniforms dry cleaned. I signed up as a reservist, was deployed less than 2 months after I was done with basic and AIT and spent the rest of my 3 years and 10 months active service, spent a year in Pakistan. It was an experience but I didn't want that much chaos for 20 years.

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The_Critic posted...

really roughly speaking it seems like for enlisted, ~$2500 a month. For officers ~$5000 a month.

just going off what Ive hear

I guess you'd better make Officer in those 20 years. $2500 a month isn't that livable.

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Alright listen up

The old retirement system was basically you get 2.5% times the number of years you served times your base pay (basically). 20 years = 50% of your base pay. If you're higher ranking you get more money. If you stay in longer you get a higher percentage each year. You can't say "for enlisted it's X but for officers it's Y" because different people retire at different rates and pay grades.

There are some other perks if you do the full 20, like your Healthcare is covered, you can still shop at the PX/NEX and commissary, use a lot of the MWR program options, etc.

A few years back they rolled out a new system. Now you only get 2% per year served, BUT they also start matching your contributions to your thrift savings plan (federal retirement program like a 401k), up to 5%. The idea is if a person didn't want to stay in at least they would have more to show for retirement.

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A lot of people hate the lifestyle and get out well before 20. A lot of people just have lifestyle changes, like kids or they get married, and want to have a more stable life for their family.

I'm barely more than 5 years away from 20 and I increasingly have a desire to get out before then.

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I'm a bit under 4 years from retirement myself. But it can be pretty shitty at times and you still get some good benefits from only doing 4 years. You get a GI bill to pay for college and points towards hiring on most government jobs by serving.

I stuck it out because I've been in more technical jobs my whole career. I will be retired at 38 and earning a pension as well as health insurance for the rest of my life. That wasnt always the plan though.

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Well with veteran hiring preference and the GI bill you stand to make a lot more money if you get out sooner rather than later if you're enlisted. My dad was an E9 and while his retirement was okay, he was making six figures as a GS-13 at his "second job"

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20 years is pure commitment to the army.
Some people join the army in their late 20's or early 30's too...
By the time you hit 40-early to mid 50's a job in the military may be very stressful to someone around that age no doubt.


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Because your mind and body will be slop after that long.

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I've been active duty Army for nearly 7 1/2 years now.

People don't stay because they don't like their first duty station or unit and they think that's what their entire branch is like.

Or alternatively they get in and just don't like the military lifestyle (I've met more than my fair share of people who hate being told what to do and I'm just "like tf did you think you were joining").

Also, a lot of people join explicitly for the GI Bill and get out as soon as they can so they can get back to school and get a degree and better paying employment elsewhere. Being a veteran also looks good on a resume at a lot of places and people are aware of that.

Another big factor as to why people get out, usually the ones who have been in about as long as I have, is the politics of the military. Not Washington politics, internal branch politics. Capping out in an MOS because you joined at the wrong time or missed the opportunity to promote by a month due to no fault of your own and now you're being forced out because you've hit the maximum number of years you're allowed to serve at your current rank. And the only reason you can't promote is because your MOS doesn't have any spots in the ranks above you open, so until somebody retires or somebody fucks up and get kicked out, you've either gotta hit an intentionally 'impossible' standard or luck out.

Now combine the above with the advanced aging that the military puts your body through and it isn't hard to see why people don't stay in. If you're actually trying to max out the standards for physical fitness tests or just generally being pretty strong, you're going to age the fuck out of your body in the military.

Hell, even if you don't do that, the military will still put general additional wear and tear on your body just from serving. I can't speak to the Navy and Air Force but I know Army and Marines have you working out multiple mornings a week, if not every weekday morning.

And it isn't smart fitness either, some units will have you running 3+ miles every day and then not even have the courtesy to properly stretch you out. They'll tell you to do it on your own while in the same breath telling you to go change and be back in an hour or so (with implied tasks of showering, changing, driving home, etc)

Most people who voluntarily get out, don't get out just for one specific reason. It's a decision made from multiple reasons.

But ultimately a lot of people just get tired, figuratively literally and physically, of the military lifestyle and get out to seek greener pastures elsewhere.

I intend to stay in the Army til the Army finally tells me to go home or get the fuck out because I can no longer keep up, but not everyone has that internal will or desire to put up with their branches unique quirks and personality and I don't begrudge them for it. The military lifestyle is far from "for everyone".

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My dad did it but he was an officer

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008Zulu posted...

I guess you'd better make Officer in those 20 years. $2500 a month isn't that livable.

Well considering the military pays for your housing and healthcare, $2500 isn't that unlivable.

Hell, I make like $2100 a month and I've been in a good long while <_<

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Humans aren't designed to be a part of the military apparatus for that long. The reason soldiers do tours instead of just staying in a country for years on end is because it breaks you psychologically. It doesn't help that sometimes the military is looking for any reason it can to kick you out.

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Hexenherz posted...

I'm barely more than 5 years away from 20 and I increasingly have a desire to get out before then.

Hang in there, bro.

Less than 5 years to go and you will have benefits? You can do it. Youre almost there.

dummy420 posted...

I will be retired at 38 and earning a pension as well as health insurance for the rest of my life.

Thats what Im talking about


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wackyteen posted...

Well considering the military pays for your housing and healthcare, $2500 isn't that unlivable.

Hell, I make like $2100 a month and I've been in a good long while <_<

afaik though you don't get the housing after you retire unless you qualify to live at the AFRH or something.


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It's stressful as fuck. I got 9 years in before I got out. I've known too many guys that hit that 10 year mark and only stuck it out because they "got halfway" and ended up hating life.

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Sariana21 posted...

They may not be allowed to stay. The military can kick you out at 19 years 11 months, and you get nothing and are 20 years behind your peers in the civilian workforce.

There are no guarantees.

You'd have to do a special kind of fuck up for the military to kick you out a month before retirement, considering you drop retirement packets at like 18 or 18 1/2 years. Like you'd have to do something to warrant a dishonorable discharge in order to get kicked out then. <_< and that's on you for doing something so monumentally of a fuck up.

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Hexenherz posted...

afaik though you don't get the housing after you retire unless you qualify to live at the AFRH or something.

tbh i read that post more as $2500 while in.

Yeah, outside $2500 isn't all that livable

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Pretty sure you need to keep advancing to stay that long, and there arent enough spots for everyone who wants them.

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KiwiTerraRizing posted...

Pretty sure you need to keep advancing to stay that long, and there arent enough spots for everyone who wants them.

To add on to this, if the Army isn't in the midst of a war and is looking to downsize, if you're not an, at least, above average NCO, you can be subject to the Quality Management Program, and they can basically say you're not meeting our current standards and "goodbye". Usually QMP only affects E-6s and E-7s that have been the rank for too long and have not gotten quality yearly reviews. Also QMP can target stuff that you skidded by on in the past, like popping hot for drugs and your commander at the time decided to cut you some slack and not kick you out then. Or if you had been accused of sexual harassment or assault and managed to not get kicked out.

Basically on a Monday of a week you're riding high and looking fine and then by Friday due to a whim of the Army, you're no longer fit for their new standards and are looking at getting out.

I mean, it isn't quite that fast but it illustrates the point.

Officers live in an entirely different world from enlisted and its even more competitive and dog eat dog.

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JustMyOpinion posted...

Seems kinda low tbh. My wife's pension is $5k a month if she spends the next 30 years at her job and she's a speech language pathologist so her risk of death is negligible.

There's a little more to it than the flat retirement rates at 20 years. For instance, I got out at nine years as an E-5 and I get around $700 for disability for the rest of my life, and my disability is only like 40%. Nobody is making it to 20 years without nearly maxing out their disability since it's so damn easy to claim bs from your history and get it approved by the VA. Also, not sure if they've changed retirement, but if you stayed in past your 20 years you could eventually higher rates that ended up being your full pay at like 25 years.

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i only did 4 years in the airforce. just wasn't for me. hated the job mostly but I know some people really like it

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wackyteen posted...

You'd have to do a special kind of fuck up for the military to kick you out a month before retirement, considering you drop retirement packets at like 18 or 18 1/2 years. Like you'd have to do something to warrant a dishonorable discharge in order to get kicked out then. <_< and that's on you for doing something so monumentally of a fuck up.

Youd think so, but thats not necessarily the case. As PP said, if they dont need you anymore, you could be phased out.

I dont know much about enlisted or in fact the Army. Were a Navy family, and my husband is an officer (Reserve now). But he used to talk about the insecurity of actually being able to make it to 20 years. Hes at almost 30 now. Its flag or out for him within the next couple of years. Hes checked all the boxes, but thats not enough. Its very much whom you know (or rather, who knows you) at this point.

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gamer167 posted...

Hard on the mind and body.

When youre in the military, in theory at least, youre supposed to put your own needs last. Mission first, subordinates and peers second, yourself last. Its hard to live like that for 20 years.

Thats why I only did 8 years. Got the majority of the experience I wanted with what was available and wanted to start focusing on myself again.

Arent there certain positions one could take where theyd never see combat action? Like engineering aircraft and stuff like that?

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Yeah the enlisted side got more dicey recently, at least in the air force, as far as staying in 20 years. When I was getting out they were talking about removing time in service as a qualifier for promotion, and that was resulting in people getting the boot when they hit their rank limit.

Basically, you used to get points added to your promotion test score that could get you promoted over people that tested better than you. The result is more (in theory) qualified people getting promoted while the people just kicking it stayed at their current rank. I say in theory because in air traffic I worked with a ton of people in air traffic that got promoted into the SNCO ranks because they could test well but couldn't keep aircraft separated to save their life.

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EzeDoesIt posted...

Arent there certain positions one could take where theyd never see combat action? Like engineering aircraft and stuff like that?

Yes. Honestly I've never done a single deployment so far (posertown population = me). But the commands I have been stationed at still have serious issues with mental health and suicide attempts, and the rare suicide, because you wind up working really weird ass hours that screws with your ability to enjoy your time off and the people that tend to stay in and get promoted tend to be unrealistic idiots who don't have any idea of what's going on or how to treat people like people.

So even stupid office jobs become really emotionally taxing.

Also if you look at the statistics a lot of people who develop or exhibit mental health issues have never been deployed, and a lot of the ones who *have* been deployed were never in any combat situation (deployments aren't necessarily about riding around in convoys in dangerous streets getting shot at).

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Hexenherz posted...

So even stupid office jobs become really emotionally taxing.

Even in non-office, but less combat oriented jobs like mine, you still wind up dealing with stupid bullshit.

Like having a bunch of leaders staying back because stuff didn't get done earlier in the day, so they send the soldiers home and then said bunch of leaders just standing around doing jack fucking shit while you and another mother fucker are the only ones actually doing the fucking work that needs to be done so everyone there can go home.

<_< Sometimes its those to your left and right that make you the most mental.

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EzeDoesIt posted...

Arent there certain positions one could take where theyd never see combat action? Like engineering aircraft and stuff like that?

Its still a bitch on the body and mind. Youre always going around with no sleep doing doing physically demanding dumb shit

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Is it easier if you join as an officer? Some random guy on the street tried to recruit me into the marines a couple of months ago and said I could enter as an officer because I have a bachelor's degree
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Surviving those 20 years with your mind and body intact isnt easy. Keeping your family around and happy isnt either when your job always comes first and there are times when you deploy for 6-12 months.

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YookaLaylee posted...

Is it easier if you join as an officer? Some random guy on the street tried to recruit me into the marines a couple of months ago and said I could enter as an officer because I have a bachelor's degree

Officer life has its perks but it also comes with a fuck ton more responsibility and scrutiny. Talking long days, potentially no or 1-day weekends(way more often than enlisted), as well as being expected to command entire platoons from the get go and higher commands as you rise in the ranks.

On top of that, you are financially liable for upwards of entire fleets of equipment (depending on what Officer branch you go into, ie logistics or ordnance) if you don't do your due diligence and sign it down (even then, you can find yourself liable). And you are on the hook for full financial payback, instead of enlisted where they can be found only partially financially liable (situation dependent, obviously)

So it comes with its benefits, but it also comes with a lot more responsibility. If you have post-career political aspirations, then officer is the way to go because saying you got out as a Major sounds more impressive than "I got out as a Staff Sergeant" or something. <_<

Ultimately, it just depends on what you want out of the military. If you want it to be your life, Officer might be the way to go.

and that's not saying being Enlisted isn't the military being your life. Officer is just something that if you're going to enjoy, you have to be 100% bought into the military lifestyle and mindset.

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No lie, when I was still in I thought I had sleep apnea because I woke up not breathing 3-5 times a night and started grinding my teeth hard as shit. I just never got it diagnosed because so many oldheads told me that sleep apnea would dq me from getting an ATC job as a civilian.

Turns out since I got out I sleep through the night no problem. I fell asleep constantly in briefings but I'm going to school and the only time I get tired in class is when I drank the night before. People would also ask if if ATC was stressful when I told them that was my job and I would say no because I didn't understand what was going on. Now I do and I can't imagine going back and living 11 more years of that stress.

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Hexenherz posted...

But the commands I have been stationed at still have serious issues with mental health and suicide attempts, and the rare suicide, because you wind up working really weird ass hours that screws with your ability to enjoy your time off and the people that tend to stay in and get promoted tend to be unrealistic idiots who don't have any idea of what's going on or how to treat people like people.

this lol. i worked on the Flightline as a mechanic.
One time the unit was so low-manned that I was switched around day shift, swing shift (afternoon), mid-shift (around midnight), in a one-week period. I felt so miserable lol.

The shift in my flight would typically change every 2-3 weeks depending on the manning (people taking leave or going to korea) and the flight schedule. I was usually moved between day shift and swing shift every few weeks. The only shift I really enjoyed was mid-shift because the majority of the leadership left by that point.

Was usually very sleep-deprived and it didn't help that I was really addicted to Runescape at the time. Went months only sleeping 3-4 hours during the weekdays. So glad I got out. I know people have it worse but man I felt mentally drained.

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Hexenherz posted...

afaik though you don't get the housing after you retire unless you qualify to live at the AFRH or something.

Is it difficult to qualify for that?

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It is a good deal. But 20 years is a very long time.

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@008Zulu I never looked into it because it's basically ... well, a retirement community for the military.

According to the website, you have to have served at least 20 years, and at least half of your service had to have been as enlisted (so a person who came in as an officer and did a full 20 would not be eligible). If you're married then *both* people have to be eligible under that criteria.

And there are priorities for who gets waitlisted when it's at maximum capacity - priority 1 is Medal of Honor recipients, priority 2 is anyone who was a prisoner of war, priority 3 is retiree with 20 years of active service and who has 100% service-related disability, priority 4 is 100% disability with 10 or more years of active duty service.

It's also not 100% free - if you live there independently it's still 46.7% of your gross income, and that amount goes up with the amount of additional service you require (up to 70% for "long term care").

I actually only learned about it because of my Leave and Earnings Statement. They deduct something like 50 cents (I guess up to $1) a month from everyone who is serving to help subsidize it. Which I'm cool with lol.

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I didn't even know it was possible to serve 20 years. Interesting read here.

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