Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 367: Cuomophobic

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh, it appears a bunch of them wanted it and just didnt go public about it. So basically theyve been lying to our faces with the intent to change stuff in the 9th inning

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Also, I absolutely love Inviso telling us "Just vote for democrats every time and be happy" when this bill has gone through so much shit because democrats won't vote with each other.

Literally demanding conformity and no questions with voting when the elected people refuse to do anything but compromise to two fuckwits who keep holding it up. Yeah, we can keep blaming Republicans, but there's no reason any Democrat should be happy with what's on display here. With the majority of the Senate and they STILL can't do anything but disappoint people.

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I had heard some chatter about the $300 but longer v $400 UI grumblings the past week or so but I thought that that matter was settled when they tightened the eligibility requirements on the checks and that they were going to leave UI at 400. ugh so damn stupid.

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HashtagSEP posted...

Manchin and Sinema both wanted $300 so they probably bitched at the last second

If only Virginia hadn't allowed West Virginia to separate, and they were just one state. Maybe DC would've been a state by now, and we'd have 2 DC Senators, and no Manchin and no Capito either.

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HashtagSEP posted...

So basically theyve been lying to our faces with the intent to change stuff in the 9th inning

Politics: First time?

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I'm not sure Virginia would be blue today if WV was still part of it and vote like they do now

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Dancedreamer posted...

If only Virginia hadn't allowed West Virginia to separate, and they were just one state. Maybe DC would've been a state by now, and we'd have 2 DC Senators, and no Manchin and no Capito either.

I know you're joking but Virginia didn't "allow" WV to separate. When Virginia went to the Confederacy, unionists formed WV and broke away to rejoin the Union.

Which is ironic when you look at the political situation in both today.

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Basically the senate sucks and I dont see the democrats having much more than 50 senators like...ever.

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Apparently the jobs report made them feel comfortable with fucking people over

Seriously, fuck them all

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PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

Also, I absolutely love Inviso telling us "Just vote for democrats every time and be happy" when this bill has gone through so much shit because democrats won't vote with each other.

Literally demanding conformity and no questions with voting when the elected people refuse to do anything but compromise to two fuckwits who keep holding it up. Yeah, we can keep blaming Republicans, but there's no reason any Democrat should be happy with what's on display here. With the majority of the Senate and they STILL can't do anything but disappoint people.

The bill has gone through so much shit because we have a 50-50 tie in the Senate as a result of Democratic voters being utter shit at voting for Democrats. Per Suprak's post on the last page, fuck Maine, who voted Joe Biden over Trump by 75,000 votes, yet voted Susan Collins by a similar margin over her Democratic opponent.

Understand that after the 2020 elections, the message being sent to Washington by the voters is this: Joe Biden beat Trump to take the presidency by about 20,000-44,000 votes that actually mattered, regardless of the massive popular vote win. Dems lost seats in the House and hold a four seat majority at the moment, leaving very little wiggle room for them. Dems failed to pick up several key seats in the Senate that would give them a majority, and managed to eke out a tie in the Senate by a narrow margin in two runoff elections.

The message I'm getting from the electorate after 2020 is this: "We really hate Trump, but just BARELY in the states where it matters, and ultimately, we'd much rather have Republicans in power than Democrats, but Trump was so bad that we couldn't reclaim the House, and two months of his bitching and whining likely depressed Republican turnout enough for the Dems to take two Senate seats in Georgia."

It fucking sucks that the Dems are doing what they're doing with regards to this COVID-19 relief bill. I desperately wish they'd just abolish the filibuster and push through as much of their agenda as possible. But that's not the message that the voters sent them in 2020. When I say support Dems no matter what, yeah, you're gonna have shit like this. But it's not meant to be a "this election went great and now everything is perfect" solution. It's a long fucking process and we have a lot of work to do to dismantle the death grip the GOP has on American politics. Dems need to win again and again and again to establish a pattern and fucking help the Dems grow their balls back. You can trace a direct line to just how fucking empowered the GOP is today (including the loss of at least one Supreme Court seat) to the Dems pushing for expanded healthcare back in 2009-2010. The Dems got fucking ROUTED after that and have yet to regain their footing since, because the voters keep giving power to the GOP as they get worse and worse on policy, and the Dems aren't getting a message of "support progressive policy!" when voters aren't voting in a way that tells them that.

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Hbthebattle posted...

I'm not sure Virginia would be blue today if WV was still part of it and vote like they do now

I've done the math on this before, and a combined VA/WV would be a red-leaning swing state. Maybe Manchin wouldn't be in office, but it's not likely the Dems would have both Senate seats locked up.
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xp1337 posted...

Which is ironic when you look at the political situation in both today.

West Virginians love the confederacy. Which is really weird, all things considered.

Dems need to pull whatever crazy shit they can to get DC statehood, STAT.

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spoilers Dems will accomplish nothing in the spirit of "bipartisanship" and when the gop takes back over they will grind them into dust doing whatever they want because fuck you got mine

like always

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Dems need to pull whatever crazy shit they can to get DC statehood, STAT.

This

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So the White House has come out in support of the UI change as well

At this point I dont care if Republicans take everything back because if Im going to get fucked either way Id rather know its coming

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DC Statehood, like basically everything else, would require doing something about the filibuster*

*probably

While I find the whole thing exasperating because it's so convoluted compared to tackling the filibuster head-on, I've heard all kinds of ideas/theories being explored on various reasons why the filibuster might not apply to various votes. For DC statehood I've heard that because statehood has never been subject to one maybe it counts as a "different" kind of vote (and/or just carve an exception for statehood votes and leave the legislative filibuster intact). For HR1/JLVRA I've heard that "oh well that's Congress exercising its Section 4 authority, not Section 8 so you could carve out an exception there like with executive nominees." It's absolutely maddening to watch them dance around it but if it gets the job done.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

To the Left on economics and to the right on culture wars sounds exactly like Bernies base. Am I wrong?

Uh, I don't think Bernie's actual base is to the right on the culture war. I think one of his biggest mistakes is overestimating how much he can win over cultural conservatives compared to normie liberals!

I dont want to rehash it but we had a conversation about this when someone said socialist policies would require nationalism and I disagree with that. And I don't think Bernie thinks that either, and I don't know why so many leftists act like this should be the actual strategy.

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"to the left economically and to the right on culture/social issues" is the vein Trump tried to tap in 2016 with his economic populism what with the pervasive belief that many of his views were less extreme than the rest of the GOP field.

It turned out to be a lie, but it's the well I think the GOP hopes to keep drinking from if they can and you see signs of it from some of them like Hawley trying to angle for it. It's not Sanders's base at all, IMO. If anything, I'd say it represents an exaggeration/caricature of the "Bernie Bro" stereotype. (I say that not to be inflammatory, but that's what I always thought was what users of the term were trying to conjure up when they said it and why many Sanders supporters bristled at it)

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Dems need to pull whatever crazy shit they can to get DC statehood, STAT.

I've been saying this for a while

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Uh, I don't think Bernie's actual base is to the right on the culture war. I think one of his biggest mistakes is overestimating how much he can win over cultural conservatives compared to normie liberals!

I dont want to rehash it but we had a conversation about this when someone said socialist policies would require nationalism and I disagree with that. And I don't think Bernie thinks that either, and I don't know why so many leftists act like this should be the actual strategy.

No I actually agree, I put it in quotation marks to indicate I dont think its literally true, but usually when Democrats criticize the Bernie base, its by implying horseshoe shit that theyre actually alt-right/Russian/MAGA trolls/etc

Edit: Yeah Xp basically said it right

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I don't have high hopes for this, but I hope it gets done because it is so overdue:

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1367819838823993346

That the AUMF is still underpinning operations today is fucking ridiculous. I've always been skeptical of this kind of effort because a President relinquishing powers given always seemed far-fetched but if the Biden WH is actually working with Congress on this... maybe? Again, don't have my hopes up but this has been a problem for a very long time.

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Sorry for the double post but

christ. Reporters at the Senate say there are animated discussions with Manchin on the floor with several other Dem senators that appear to be about the UI stuff with the implication that Manchin still isn't 100% sold on it even after they reduced it by $100. Apparently Manchin and Sinema were raising their voices. They've moved off the floor so I don't think the reporters can glean any more from it.

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They dropped unemployment? Ugh, fuck Democrats from now on.

Joe Manchin is gonna McCain this thing, isn't he?

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PerfectChaosZ posted...

They dropped unemployment? Ugh, fuck Democrats from now on.

Went from $400 to $300 but made it non-taxable (and retroactive, I think) and extended it an extra month. Still regressive on the whole I think and not as good as just providing the $400 would have been.

And then whatever Manchin is complaining about now.

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Sounds like Manchin and Sinema don't want it to go past June or July

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xp1337 posted...

Went from $400 to $300 but made it non-taxable (and retroactive, I think) and extended it an extra month. Still regressive on the whole I think and not as good as just providing the $400 would have been.

Yeah it seems like the money difference in the end won't be much of anything, but it feels like a pointless change because the optics are bad. One extra month and nontaxable probably works out of the same over the same time period, but all average Joe sees is "they're giving $100 less a week?"

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Manchin for sure wants it to end early. I saw it say Sinema, too, but sources just may be confused on which side Sinema is on

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TheRock1525 posted...

Yeah it seems like the money difference in the end won't be much of anything, but it feels like a pointless change because the optics are bad. One extra month and nontaxable probably works out of the same over the same time period, but all average Joe sees is "they're giving $100 less a week?"

Or, stick with me, we're in a pandemic and we should just give people on unemployment the same amount for the extended time.

Literally anything having to do with giving less money to people now is just absurd. Give people money. It's a pandemic. This is so simple.

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So Rob Portman wants to do $300 only through July and it is NOT tax free

And they think Manchin's going to back that and refuse the other one

I just can't

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I'm seeing this is the current situation.

https://twitter.com/taragolshan/status/1367902361084104705

Dems have the non-taxable $300/week UI through October 4. (Already dropped from $400 to placate him)
GOP has $300/week and shorten the duration to end in July.

There's concern Manchin might choose to back the GOP amendment (which in a 50-50 Senate means he gets to decide which of these plans wins). Most pathetic part is the next tweet in the thread that driving the concern about Manchin's intentions is "[Manchin] is really angry that this bill is not bipartisan" like omfg

Edit: Beaten

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**** me. And they were like, 'just take out the $15 minimum wage and it'll instantly pass'. Republicans just flat out tell you no they don't string you along telling you that maybe things will get better first.

So, basically, if Manchin backs the GOP amendment it just means they still won't vote for the bill but people will get less aid and Manchin will look like a jackass but he apparently won't care and democrats will learn absolutely nothing

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HashtagSEP posted...

So, basically, if Manchin backs the GOP amendment it just means they still won't vote for the bill but people will get less aid and Manchin will look like a jackass but he apparently won't care and democrats will learn absolutely nothing

"Damnmit we lost again? I guess we're still just being too damn progressive! BLAME BERNIE SANDERS!"

I'd rather we have a Republican majority then Manchin at this point. At least then we wouldn't be pretending things could get done.

Fuck him.

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https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1367911155990229002

One of Manchin's sticking points is the Dem plan having the tax-free provision for the UI benefits?

is this real life

God at this point it almost feels like the best hope is the GOP can't organize all 50 of their votes for their own amendment so it fails to pass, Manchin refuses to back the Dem one, so the underlying bill's $400 (through August, taxable) is the one in play and then just fucking dare him to kill the overall bill on this.

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Normally I'd just be like "lol politics" but this is just fucking embarrassing.

The easiest thing to do in the world. Give people money who need it during a pandemic. It's so easy. Just the easiest thing Dems could have done with the majority. And somehow, some way, they have just fucked it up entirely and just walked back everything they could.

If it were so many other things I would just laugh at it, but holy shit. Give people money during a pandemic. It's pathetic that it's gotten to this point.

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Because they only have a majority on paper.

Manchin straight up doesn't count when it comes time to vote.

He is a worthless existence.

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Them '22 attack ads don't care if he's a paper vote when the GOP comes trucking with the "you gave them the majority and they LIED TO YOU"

And it'll work.

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We should just grin and be happy because he ran as a Democrat. At least it's slightly closer to something good happening.

I blame Maine

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new plan: dangle manchin off a building by his ankles until he stops being a shitter

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This all is horrible but I hate that it's being phrased as Dems who are fucking this up. It's one person. But the media and general populace are stupid and won't see it that way and we'll lose house and senate in 2022 and argh

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How can Manchin be harping on bipartisanship when Dems got absolutely nothing from the republican majority for the last FOREVER. How is he so dumb

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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

new plan: dangle manchin off a building by his ankles until he stops being a shitter

New plan: dangle every politician off a building by their ankles until they stop being shitters*

*Few exceptions here

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FFDragon posted...

Them '22 attack ads don't care if he's a paper vote when the GOP comes trucking with the "you gave them the majority and they LIED TO YOU"

And it'll work.

and people will of course believe that despite the actual problem that if the GOP werent obstructionist, Manchin wouldnt be a problem

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TotallyNotMI posted...

This all is horrible but I hate that it's being phrased as Dems who are fucking this up. It's one person. But the media and general populace are stupid and won't see it that way and we'll lose house and senate in 2022 and argh

No, it's absolutely the Dems that are fucking up by trying to compromise with him in the first place, which just gave him more power, instead of making him have to decide if he wants to be the vote that kills it or not. There were several of them in favor of cutting it to $300 as it is.

Let's not pretend they're blameless, here. The phrasing is absolutely correct.

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Also also fuck Collins, Murkowski and Romney for acting like they have any principles because they could make Manchin insignificant here.

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GOP: "They promised COVID relief, but never provided."
Voters: "They're right!"
*ignores that the GOP and Manchin stopped it from happening, not the Dems*

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