Current Events > Do you blame the chinese government for the covid 19 pandemic?

(+) Yeah! (+)

do you?

Yes, I blame them 90% for the spread and neglectful handing of the coronavirus.
If china had given a fuck about their own people, not treated them as guinea pigs and overall improved the quality of life for the impoverished people of china... Wet markets would start to die down and people wouldn't have to eat slaughtered animals contaminated with diseases because of unsanitary conditions said animals are forced to live in...

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Ima be honest, I still don't know its origins

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I blame the world, which includes China

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yes?

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yeah

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They restricted travel from Wuhan to other parts of China while allowing travel out of the country so

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They did spend the first several critical weeks basically suppressing any and all information of its existence from their own citizens instead of taking it seriously enough to possibly contain it before infected citizens could leave the country to spread the virus throughout the world.

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despite fucking up for the origin of the outbreak, they still did infinitely better than the US

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Paragon21XX posted...

They did spend the first several critical weeks basically suppressing any and all information of its existence from their own citizens instead of taking it seriously enough to possibly contain it before infected citizens could leave the country to spread the virus throughout the world.

And then America did the same.

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Not entirely, but of course they're a part of it.

We in the US really fucked ourselves over with culturally propagated stupidity, though.

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hockeybub89 posted...

And then America did the same.

Swing and a miss.

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Paragon21XX posted...

Swing and a miss.

?

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metralo posted...

despite fucking up for the origin of the outbreak, they still did infinitely better than the US

I'm fairly certain at least ~1,000,000 people died from Coronavirus in China.
The first two weeks it hit wuhan, china and it crippled their hospitals?

Yeah definitely not sus.

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They might have started it, but given the awful pandemic response of the US, I don't think China is solely responsible for the extent of damage COVID-19 is causing in the USA.

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Paragon21XX posted...

Swing and a miss.

You literally described China, America, Brazil, and other nations.

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Yes. Their censorship of information because it made China look bad is what caused it. They didn't have that reaction when ncov-1 happened and it was successfully contained and most of the world never had it come to their countries.

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it still baffles me why the solution to the outbreak was "we must bring our people home from the place of the outbreak!"

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Homeless_Waifu posted...

I'm fairly certain at least ~1,000,000 people died from Coronavirus in China.
The first two weeks it hit wuhan, china and it crippled their hospitals?

Yeah definitely not sus.

they literally welded people in their homes

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There is no conclusive evidence that the chinese government had anything to do with the covid pandemic. This topic has exposed how effective the US propaganda machine is in spreading hate and disinformation. There are tons of issues with the Chinese government, but we don't even know the origins of the virus at this point in time.

Geiki Ganger posted...

They might have started it, but given the awful pandemic response of the US, I don't think China is solely responsible for the extent of damage COVID-19 is causing in the USA.

They are solely responsible, in the sense that something easily preventable COULD OF been completely avoided had China improved living conditions in their own country.

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Homeless_Waifu posted...

They are solely responsible, in the sense that something easily preventable COULD OF been completely avoided had China improved living conditions in their own country.

It has nothing to do with living conditions.

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Spread of a virus this infectious was inevitable. China was likely just unluckily the area where the virus initially transmitted to humans.

Truthfully we will never know exactly how it originated, though.

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metralo posted...

they literally welded people in their homes

Not at first they didn't.
-Some people didn't know the symptoms, mass hysteria caused people to rush to the hospital to see if they were infected which in turn caused them to get infected because the hospitals at the time were crowded
-people from Wuhan where leaving the country during the start of the pandemic (fairly certain contributing the spread of the virus).

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Tyranthraxus posted...

It has nothing to do with living conditions.

It has a lot to do with living conditions
How do you think the black plague started?

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Homeless_Waifu posted...

They are solely responsible, in the sense that something easily preventable COULD OF been completely avoided had China improved living conditions in their own country.

"They are solely responsible in a context completely different from the one you were talking about."

Also, it's "could have."

Take an reasoning course.

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Assuming that the virus originated in China, then yes, absolutely.

Of course, thats also assuming that the Chinese government knew about it but didnt do anything about it because reasons.

I guess theres no way of knowing for sure though.

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Actually I believe the general consensus of the scientific community is that China did a great job locking down and COVID would've been a lot worse if they had not done so.

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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

"They are solely responsible in a context completely different from the one you were talking about."

Also, it's "could have."

Take an reasoning course.

I mean...
In any case, I still think China is at fault from every direction no matter how you look it.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLtGwHqX8M

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Homeless_Waifu posted...

It has a lot to do with living conditions
How do you think the black plague started?

1. The bubonic plague was bacteria not a virus.
2. You can't prevent the spread by doing things like wearing masks because it's transmitted through flea bites.
3. People were getting medical advice at the time like "don't bathe" and "don't get any fresh air"

People who live in squalor in Africa can still avoid malaria with mosquito nets. You can have poor living conditions and still be disease free. It's a matter of informing people that a contagious disease is around and making sure they're prepared to protect themselves.

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Covid-19 hit the world with a perfect storm. I think china actually did what they can to contain it and are the best in public restrictions any country is doing. I think money played a role in how the pandemic swept the world. The lunar new year traveling played a role in the covid19 perfect storm. Also we only saw what china did to contain their poor and middle class. Im certain the wealthy and rich had more lenience in containment, testing, and restrictions.


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Homeless_Waifu posted...

I mean...
In any case, I still think China is at fault from every direction no matter how you look it.

Sole fault? Cause you can't blame China for US policy in handling the pandemic stateside. They lit the fire, yes, but we handled it like dopes.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

People who live in squalor in Africa can still avoid malaria with mosquito nets. You can have poor living conditions and still be disease free. It's a matter of informing people that a contagious disease is around and making sure they're prepared to protect themselves.

See the thing about poor living conditions, is that there usually is little to no public utilities that encourage/promote sanitation let alone have access to clean water...
Even educating people becomes a problem because not everyone will get the chance to become informed, thus the problem repeats itself over and over until a major disease comes out of it.

China is a wealthy country to, If they really wanted to they could easily do many things to improve the livelihood of their most vulnerable people... They just choose not to.

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@EnvoyOfTheLight

"They are solely responsible in a context completely different from the one you were talking about."

Also, it's "could have."

Take an reasoning course.

The irony when you correct someone else and fuck up yourself.

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I blame most governments and individuals tbh.

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Homeless_Waifu posted...

See the thing about poor living conditions, is that there usually is little to no public utilities that encourage/promote sanitation?
Even educating people becomes a problem because not everyone will get the chance to become informed, thus the problem repeats itself over and over until a major disease comes out of it.

China is a wealthy country to, If they really wanted to they could easily do many things to improve the livelihood of their most vulnerable people... They just choose not to.

I'm just saying there are people out in the world right now who live in worse conditions than China's worst condition and they are still doing things to fight off diseases.

Africa, like the whole continent, has got about 3 million cases of covid-19. And while there's a lot of nice places, there's also a lot of rural remote areas where people don't even have electricity. Now there's some debate that maybe COVID cases are going undiagnosed so let's be super unfavorable here and multiply it by 10 and that merely makes the whole continent of Africa as bad as the united States.

"But the living conditions of the USA are so great!" Exactly. It spread here because of deliberate acts of stupidity and rebellion against our own safety from a force of nature that doesn't give a fuck about immigration rights.

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Partially. I mean, they could've prevented it getting out of hand in the first place, but we're kinda at the point where we also have to put some serious blame on governments who did a shitty job of handling it and made the situation far worse (USA, Brazil, UK, most of Europe but especially Sweden, etc).

EDIT: If this is about "did they make / release it"... I don't believe it's manmade or intentionally released from a lab, though I'm not convinced the "accidental lab escape" isn't a plausible theory. Regardless, that's the kind of thing that could happen anywhere, and I wouldn't fault China for the lab leak itself, only for how they responded.

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I blame them in the sense that they tried to contain the spread of information about the virus.

Do I think it's a man made virus? No.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Yes. Their censorship of information because it made China look bad is what caused it. They didn't have that reaction when ncov-1 happened and it was successfully contained and most of the world never had it come to their countries.

I was one of those people, and let me tell you the problem was the CDC was run by idiots. They told us not to wear masks, tested none of us, allowed us to hang out in groups (including daily group meetings), had new arrivals move in but didn't reset the two week quarantine for previous arrivals. I wore a mask the whole time and never left my room. I got the first flight I could back to Japan and haven't been back to America since. I would rather go back to China than America.

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ssjevot posted...

I was one of those people, and let me tell you the problem was the CDC was run by idiots. They told us not to wear masks, tested none of us, allowed us to hang out in groups (including daily group meetings), had new arrivals move in but didn't reset the two week quarantine for previous arrivals. I wore a mask the whole time and never left my room. I got the first flight I could back to Japan and haven't been back to America since. I would rather go back to China than America.

China obviously has no blame whatsoever with the tremendous fuckups perpetrated by the CDC. I'm just contrasting China's response to ncov-1 with ncov-2 as they both originated in China and the difference in response and effectiveness is night and day. Ncov-1 went extinct after infecting less people globally than many countries have infected with ncov-2.

The difference is with ncov-1 China had a very strong early response.

With ncov-2 they buried information about it. It took them nearly a month just to admit it was airborne contagious from person to person.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Ncov-1 went extinct after infecting less people globally than many countries have infected with ncov-2.

That's primarily to do with SARS-CoV-1 (I've never heard "nCoV-1" and "nCoV-2" used to refer to these two...) being a pretty shitty virus (from the "successful virus is good" point of view, not a human point of view).

It didn't spread until well after symptoms showed, relied on superspreader events, and tended to kill a lot of victims before they had much chance to spread.

SARS-CoV-2 is still making the second mistake, but it's a lot better on the first and third.

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Trumble posted...

That's primarily to do with SARS-CoV-1 (I've never heard "nCoV-1" and "nCoV-2" used to refer to these two...) being a pretty shitty virus (from the "successful virus is good" point of view, not a human point of view).

It didn't spread until well after symptoms showed, relied on superspreader events, and tended to kill a lot of victims before they had much chance to spread.

SARS-CoV-2 is still making the second mistake, but it's a lot better on the first and third.

Sars-ncov-1 is the same thing. "ncov" is just short for novel coronavirus.

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OffTempo posted...

Ima be honest, I still don't know its origins

Same. Until I know the whole story im not ready to place the entire blame on them, but fuck the Chinese Government either way they are horrible regardless.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Sars-ncov-1 is the same thing. "ncov" is just short for novel coronavirus.

I know what you were referring to, I was just mentioning I hadn't heard "nCoV-1" and "nCoV-2" used to refer to these two (only "nCoV-2019", or something like that, to refer to what's now SARS-CoV-2).

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I blame them for suppressing info, obfuscating the numbers, and being late to do anything about it. It was going to get out eventually. It was too virulent not to.

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Conker posted...

@EnvoyOfTheLight

The irony when you correct someone else and fuck up yourself.

Kinda. One is a failure of knowledge, the other is having a really fat thumb.

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China did this, i mean what the fuck. Everyone has known this. This isn't something new.

No, I don't blame China for Donald Trump deliberately downplaying the dangers of COVID while simultaneously resisting any and all attempts to avoid the spread and needlessly turning it into a partisan issue.

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