Current Events > Bill banning trans athletes from school, college sports passes Florida House

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philsov 04/15/21 1:42:59 PM #51:	Perascamin posted... You have to think about this without your feelings. Transpeople are built differently. Transmen wouldn't be able to compete with cisgender men, and transwomen demolish cisgender women. There's not a soft spot that's fair for everyone. That's life. Your solution to trans people lacking access to any and all sports-related scholarships/grants is "too bad"? Impressive take for someone claiming to be an ally. Why are there even women's leagues in the first place, again? --- Remember that I won't rest, 'til we share the same tense Just know, to me, you're better late than never again. <cite>philsov posted [p:952863496] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Perascamin posted...</cite> <quote>You have to think about this without your feelings. Transpeople are built differently. Transmen wouldn't be able to compete with cisgender men, and transwomen demolish cisgender women. There's not a soft spot that's fair for everyone. That's life.</quote> Your solution to trans people lacking access to any and all sports-related scholarships/grants is "too bad"? Impressive take for someone claiming to be an ally. Why are there even women's leagues in the first place, again?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FlameTurtle 04/15/21 1:49:09 PM #52:	Its also pretty wild that when this guy was told that trans people are becoming legally barred from seeking healthcare, the response was yeah, but a lot of other people have problems, what can you do? What a fantastic ally. I feel supported. --- The one and the only Dr. Ms. FlameTurtle Esq., First of Her Name She/Her <cite>FlameTurtle posted [p:952863719] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Its also pretty wild that when this guy was told that trans people are becoming legally barred from seeking healthcare, the response was yeah, but a lot of other people have problems, what can you do? What a fantastic ally. I feel supported. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
whitelytning 04/15/21 1:49:17 PM #53:	MedeaLysistrata posted... The obvious solution (to me) to this is to make winning nigh irrelevant and personal improvement a better metric for success. That is nice to think about but its not how competitive sports work and that is what this issue is about. Competitive sports are a meritocracy where all that matters is winning. Society has created different subsets of competitive sports for biological differences because without these subsets some groups would not have any success in a truly competitive environment. This happens in areas other than male/female within sports in the form of age limits and weight classes. They are artificial classes to allow people to compete that wouldnt without being limited to the protected subset. Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. Its not hateful or anti-trans. --- ************************************************ https://imgur.com/iZdWIKJ <cite>whitelytning posted [p:952863724] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>MedeaLysistrata posted... </cite> <quote> The obvious solution (to me) to this is to make winning nigh irrelevant and personal improvement a better metric for success.</quote> That is nice to think about but its not how competitive sports work and that is what this issue is about. Competitive sports are a meritocracy where all that matters is winning. Society has created different subsets of competitive sports for biological differences because without these subsets some groups would not have any success in a truly competitive environment. This happens in areas other than male/female within sports in the form of age limits and weight classes. They are artificial classes to allow people to compete that wouldnt without being limited to the protected subset. Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. Its not hateful or anti-trans. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Alucard188 04/15/21 1:50:21 PM #54:	JACKBUTTMOMMY posted... no such thing You mean people legislating these things don't know what they're talking about? Nah, couldn't be. --- Face it Cloud is a gaming icon and has appered in lots of games while mario has only appeared in 2 games sunshine and 64~xSlashbomBx <cite>Alucard188 posted [p:952863760] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>JACKBUTTMOMMY posted... </cite> <quote>no such thing</quote> You mean people legislating these things don't know what they're talking about? Nah, couldn't be. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 1:51:43 PM #55:	Proto_Spark posted... Its not like the NCAA has had regulations for Trans athletes for a decade, or The Olympics have had them for 2, no we need reactionary idiots who haven't done any research to do the real work because think of the children. Which leads to the simple question. Given all the internal practices already in place for multiple organizations, how comfortable are people like Perascamin with the government stepping in on top of that? Perascamin posted... You have to think about this without your feelings. Bold statement for someone demonstrably thinking about this with their feelings. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952863806] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Proto_Spark posted... </cite> <quote>Its not like the NCAA has had regulations for Trans athletes for a decade, or The Olympics have had them for 2, no we need reactionary idiots who haven't done any research to do the real work because think of the children.</quote>Which leads to the simple question. Given all the internal practices already in place for multiple organizations, how comfortable are people like Perascamin with the government stepping in on top of that? Perascamin posted... </cite> <quote>You have to think about this without your feelings.</quote>Bold statement for someone demonstrably thinking about this with their feelings. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SSJPurple 04/15/21 1:52:53 PM #56:	Men and Women have different bodies. A woman who went through puberty as a male can have a different body compared to her other female peers. This is about biology and science. Men and women have more differences than just their genitalia. <cite>SSJPurple posted [p:952863851] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Men and Women have different bodies. A woman who went through puberty as a male can have a different body compared to her other female peers. This is about biology and science. Men and women have more differences than just their genitalia. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
legendary_zell 04/15/21 1:53:19 PM #57:	Trans folks should be oh soooo grateful for wonderful allies like Perascamin who are so quick to accept the idea that trans people should be legally and categorically excluded from parts of social and economic life. And that the worst thing that could happen would be for trans people to have feelings about being excluded. With friends like that, who needs enemies? If we're establishing the principle that discrimination against trans people is a-okay, so long as the given reason is protecting some other group, that's going to be weaponized to predictable effect. You can use that same reasoning to justify banning trans teachers to protect kids, banning healthcare to protect kids, banning trans people from bathrooms to protect kids and women. This isn't even a slippery slope or a parade of horribles, this is all stuff that has already been tried or implemented. --- I gotta be righteous, I gotta be me, I gotta be conscious, I gotta be free, I gotta be able, I gotta attack, I gotta be stable, I gotta be black. <cite>legendary_zell posted [p:952863862] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Trans folks should be oh soooo grateful for wonderful allies like Perascamin who are so quick to accept the idea that trans people should be legally and categorically excluded from parts of social and economic life. And that the worst thing that could happen would be for trans people to have feelings about being excluded. With friends like that, who needs enemies? If we're establishing the principle that discrimination against trans people is a-okay, so long as the given reason is protecting some other group, that's going to be weaponized to predictable effect. You can use that same reasoning to justify banning trans teachers to protect kids, banning healthcare to protect kids, banning trans people from bathrooms to protect kids and women. This isn't even a slippery slope or a parade of horribles, this is all stuff that has already been tried or implemented. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 04/15/21 1:54:07 PM #58:	Perascamin posted... That being said, its still not even remotely fair for transwomen to compete against cisgender women in athletic events. this is like 70% of the way to being a halfway decent thesis statement for an essay. such an essay would also require a significant amount of additional argumentation, and a lot of citations to support that argumentation. do you have either of those things? --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:952863900] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Perascamin posted... </cite> <quote>That being said, its still not even remotely fair for transwomen to compete against cisgender women in athletic events.</quote>this is like 70% of the way to being a halfway decent thesis statement for an essay. such an essay would also require a significant amount of additional argumentation, and a lot of citations to support that argumentation. do you have either of those things? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 1:54:51 PM #59:	whitelytning posted... Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. RIP the Olympics, destroyed after allowing trans athletes to compete decades ago. averagejoel posted... this is like 70% of the way to being a halfway decent thesis statement for an essay. such an essay would also require a significant amount of additional argumentation, and a lot of citations to support that argumentation. do you have either of those things? Not the least of which is answering the incredibly complicated question "What is 'fair'?" --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952863926] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>whitelytning posted... </cite> <quote>Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system.</quote>RIP the Olympics, destroyed after allowing trans athletes to compete decades ago. averagejoel posted... </cite> <quote>this is like 70% of the way to being a halfway decent thesis statement for an essay. such an essay would also require a significant amount of additional argumentation, and a lot of citations to support that argumentation. do you have either of those things?</quote>Not the least of which is answering the incredibly complicated question "What is 'fair'?" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
What_ 04/15/21 1:55:24 PM #60:	I see the Republicans as usual are focusing on the real issues /s <cite>What_ posted [p:952863943] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>I see the Republicans as usual are focusing on the real issues /s </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
averagejoel 04/15/21 1:56:08 PM #61:	whitelytning posted... Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. Its not hateful or anti-trans. do you have evidence which suggests that trans women have "elevated biological abilities" compared to cis women? --- peanut butter and dick <cite>averagejoel posted [p:952863971] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>whitelytning posted... </cite> <quote>Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. Its not hateful or anti-trans.</quote>do you have evidence which suggests that trans women have "elevated biological abilities" compared to cis women? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 04/15/21 2:20:32 PM #62:	averagejoel posted... do you have evidence which suggests that trans women have "elevated biological abilities" compared to cis women? Yes, I'm a transgender woman. Have you ever seen JoJo's Bizarre Adventure? Remember the Pillar Men? I'm so dainty and small that every time I see a cis man flex, the theme starts playing. They literally tower over me with how short I am. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:952864888] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>averagejoel posted... </cite> <quote>do you have evidence which suggests that trans women have "elevated biological abilities" compared to cis women?</quote>Yes, I'm a transgender woman. Have you ever seen JoJo's Bizarre Adventure? Remember the Pillar Men? I'm so dainty and small that every time I see a cis man flex, the theme starts playing. They literally tower over me with how short I am. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 2:30:09 PM #63:	gunplagirl posted... Yes, I'm a transgender woman. Have you ever seen JoJo's Bizarre Adventure? Remember the Pillar Men? I'm so dainty and small that every time I see a cis man flex, the theme starts playing. They literally tower over me with how short I am. One of these days I'm gonna find the secret of your Stand. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952865254] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>gunplagirl posted... </cite> <quote>Yes, I'm a transgender woman. Have you ever seen JoJo's Bizarre Adventure? Remember the Pillar Men? I'm so dainty and small that every time I see a cis man flex, the theme starts playing. They literally tower over me with how short I am.</quote>One of these days I'm gonna find the secret of your Stand. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Perascamin 04/15/21 4:03:01 PM #64:	philsov posted... Your solution to trans people lacking access to any and all sports-related scholarships/grants is "too bad"? Impressive take for someone claiming to be an ally. Why are there even women's leagues in the first place, again? Because women are genetically different than men and weaker. Cisgender men and women have drastically different bodies. That's why there is a separate category for women's athletics. It's not hard to understand. If you're born a biological man and you're unable to transition until later in life, especially if during/after puberty, you would automatically have an advantage over cisgendered women. Look at the average Man's skeleton and compare it to a Woman's. You would quickly realize that the male skeleton has wider shoulders, a wider chest, and a wider back. Theres even more space in the abdomen, and the male skeleton has longer legs. Why does this matter? The biological male skeleton has an exponentially greater potential to develop chest, shoulder, back, abdominal, and leg muscles than a biological female. Cisgender women CANNOT compete against genetics. You can't stop it. Even after you transition from male to female, you still have greater potential than a cisgender woman. --- I've grown. <cite>Perascamin posted [p:952868803] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>philsov posted... </cite> <quote>Your solution to trans people lacking access to any and all sports-related scholarships/grants is "too bad"? Impressive take for someone claiming to be an ally. Why are there even women's leagues in the first place, again?</quote>Because women are genetically different than men and weaker. Cisgender men and women have drastically different bodies. That's why there is a separate category for women's athletics. It's not hard to understand. If you're born a biological man and you're unable to transition until later in life, especially if during/after puberty, you would automatically have an advantage over cisgendered women. Look at the average Man's skeleton and compare it to a Woman's. You would quickly realize that the male skeleton has wider shoulders, a wider chest, and a wider back. Theres even more space in the abdomen, and the male skeleton has longer legs. Why does this matter? The biological male skeleton has an exponentially greater potential to develop chest, shoulder, back, abdominal, and leg muscles than a biological female. Cisgender women CANNOT compete against genetics. You can't stop it. Even after you transition from male to female, you still have greater potential than a cisgender woman. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 4:59:03 PM #65:	Perascamin posted... Because women are genetically That's not why there are women's leagues. There are women's leagues because they wanted to play sports and men said "too bad" so they made their own leagues. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952870836] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Perascamin posted... </cite> <quote>Because women are genetically</quote>That's not why there are women's leagues. There are women's leagues because they wanted to play sports and men said "too bad" so they made their own leagues. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
voldothegr8 04/15/21 5:04:55 PM #66:	CyricZ posted... That's not why there are women's leagues. There are women's leagues because they wanted to play sports and men said "too bad" so they made their own leagues. Dead wrong, women are welcome to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB and many other pro sports leagues around the world. It hasn't happened yet because not a single one can make the cut, they just physically can't. If they could they would and owners would gladly pay them to do so. Serina Williams is a prime example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 50, beat her 61. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 62.[56] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56] --- Oda break tracker 2021- 2 (2) \| THE Ohio State: 7-1 \| Las Vegas Raiders: 8-8 <cite>voldothegr8 posted [p:952871043] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted...</cite> <quote> That's not why there are women's leagues. There are women's leagues because they wanted to play sports and men said "too bad" so they made their own leagues. </quote> Dead wrong, women are welcome to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB and many other pro sports leagues around the world. It hasn't happened yet because not a single one can make the cut, they just physically can't. If they could they would and owners would gladly pay them to do so. Serina Williams is a prime example. <quote>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 50, beat her 61. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 62.[56] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56]</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ohiostate124 04/15/21 5:08:01 PM #67:	voldothegr8 posted... Dead wrong, women are welcome to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB and many other pro sports leagues around the world. It hasn't happened yet because not a single one can make the cut, they just physically can't. If they could they would and owners would gladly pay them to do so. Serina Williams is a prime example. Didnt the US Womens National Soccer team get beat by an under 15 boys team? <cite>ohiostate124 posted [p:952871169] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>voldothegr8 posted... </cite> <quote>Dead wrong, women are welcome to play in the NFL, NBA, or MLB and many other pro sports leagues around the world. It hasn't happened yet because not a single one can make the cut, they just physically can't. If they could they would and owners would gladly pay them to do so. Serina Williams is a prime example.</quote>Didnt the US Womens National Soccer team get beat by an under 15 boys team? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
zammox 04/15/21 5:15:04 PM #68:	voldothegr8 posted... It is not anti trans legislation, it's pro female athlete legislation Agreed. Some groups are fighting hard to push women back and erode decades of progress, thankfully legislation like this ensures that women still have a chance at equality. --- aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa <cite>zammox posted [p:952871426] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>voldothegr8 posted... </cite> <quote>It is not anti trans legislation, it's pro female athlete legislation</quote>Agreed. Some groups are fighting hard to push women back and erode decades of progress, thankfully legislation like this ensures that women still have a chance at equality. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 5:17:42 PM #69:	voldothegr8 posted... Dead wrong No I actually looked this up: https://thesportjournal.org/article/a-history-of-women-in-sport-prior-to-title-ix They wanted to play sports. It started in colleges, and they wanted intercollegiate play and roadblocks of all kinds were put in their way, not the least of which was the idea of women belonging in the home. It took second wave feminism and the passing of Title IX to actually have it be an established thing. It had nothing to do with the NFL or NBA or MLB. EDIT: And it also took Geena Davis and Tom Hanks and Madonna and Rosie O'Donnell. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952871534] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>voldothegr8 posted... </cite> <quote>Dead wrong</quote> No I actually looked this up: https://thesportjournal.org/article/a-history-of-women-in-sport-prior-to-title-ix They wanted to play sports. It started in colleges, and they wanted intercollegiate play and roadblocks of all kinds were put in their way, not the least of which was the idea of women belonging in the home. It took second wave feminism and the passing of Title IX to actually have it be an established thing. It had nothing to do with the NFL or NBA or MLB. EDIT: And it also took Geena Davis and Tom Hanks and Madonna and Rosie O'Donnell. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Anteaterking 04/15/21 5:19:48 PM #70:	Are people pretending to be trans in order to have an easier time in athletic competitions? --- http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/Anteaterking/scan00021.jpg <cite>Anteaterking posted [p:952871596] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Are people pretending to be trans in order to have an easier time in athletic competitions? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
voldothegr8 04/15/21 5:20:26 PM #71:	CyricZ posted... No I actually looked this up: https://thesportjournal.org/article/a-history-of-women-in-sport-prior-to-title-ix They wanted to play sports. It started in colleges, and they wanted intercollegiate play and roadblocks of all kinds were put in their way, not the least of which was the idea of women belonging in the home. It took second wave feminism and the passing of Title IX to actually have it be a thing. It had nothing to do with the NFL or NBA or MLB. But title 9 happened which completely invalidates your extremely flawed reason why women can't play sports with men in the modern age. --- Oda break tracker 2021- 2 (2) \| THE Ohio State: 7-1 \| Las Vegas Raiders: 8-8 <cite>voldothegr8 posted [p:952871618] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted...</cite> <quote> No I actually looked this up: https://thesportjournal.org/article/a-history-of-women-in-sport-prior-to-title-ix They wanted to play sports. It started in colleges, and they wanted intercollegiate play and roadblocks of all kinds were put in their way, not the least of which was the idea of women belonging in the home. It took second wave feminism and the passing of Title IX to actually have it be a thing. It had nothing to do with the NFL or NBA or MLB. </quote> But title 9 happened which completely invalidates your extremely flawed reason why women can't play sports with men in the modern age.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 5:23:55 PM #72:	voldothegr8 posted... But title 9 happened which completely invalidates your extremely flawed reason why women can't play sports with men in the modern age. Dude, you're not even following the exchange here. Perscamin was asked why women's leagues exist and he goes into this diatribe of science and structure and biology and boy was that not even remotely part of it. And I answered him. Women's leagues were not a carefully crafted fully vetted peer reviewed dissertation with road maps and meticulous implementation. Women's leagues literally exist just because women wanted to play sports competitively, and... they couldn't. And the implementation was scattershot and ultimately kinda sloppy because Title IX passed with little fanfare and suddenly institutions had to comply and had no fucking clue how to do so. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952871733] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>voldothegr8 posted... </cite> <quote>But title 9 happened which completely invalidates your extremely flawed reason why women can't play sports with men in the modern age.</quote>Dude, you're not even following the exchange here. Perscamin was asked why women's leagues exist and he goes into this diatribe of science and structure and biology and boy was that not even remotely part of it. And I answered him. Women's leagues were not a carefully crafted fully vetted peer reviewed dissertation with road maps and meticulous implementation. Women's leagues literally exist just because women wanted to play sports competitively, and... they couldn't. And the implementation was scattershot and ultimately kinda sloppy because Title IX passed with little fanfare and suddenly institutions had to comply and had no fucking clue how to do so. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
philsov 04/15/21 5:30:09 PM #73:	Perascamin posted... If you're born a biological man and you're unable to transition until later in life, especially if during/after puberty, you would automatically have an advantage over cisgendered women. We can negate that by treatment priority to puberty. And, oh, wait, Florida wants to ban that as well. Making a trans-only sports league (at the high school/college level) is not viable due to a sheer lack of numbers, so trans students are just kicked down the road. You claim its unfair to ciswomen if transwomen participate and get those scholarships and grants, but fail to acknowledge the unfairness of transwomen not even being given a chance to access any of those funds. Stop pretending to care about girls' sports. --- Remember that I won't rest, 'til we share the same tense Just know, to me, you're better late than never again. <cite>philsov posted [p:952871920] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Perascamin posted...</cite> <quote>If you're born a biological man and you're unable to transition until later in life, especially if during/after puberty, you would automatically have an advantage over cisgendered women.</quote> We can negate that by treatment priority to puberty. And, oh, wait, Florida wants to ban that as well. Making a trans-only sports league (at the high school/college level) is not viable due to a sheer lack of numbers, so trans students are just kicked down the road. You claim its unfair to ciswomen if transwomen participate and get those scholarships and grants, but fail to acknowledge the unfairness of transwomen not even being given a chance to access any of those funds. Stop pretending to care about girls' sports.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/15/21 5:32:20 PM #74:	philsov posted... the unfairness of transwomen not even being given a chance to access any of those funds. "But what if they just... not be trans??" --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952871994] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>philsov posted... </cite> <quote>the unfairness of transwomen not even being given a chance to access any of those funds.</quote>"But what if they just... not be trans??" </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BeantownHero 04/15/21 5:33:21 PM #75:	Time for sports leagues to boycott Florida --- Black In America https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/1527-black-in-america <cite>BeantownHero posted [p:952872025] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Time for sports leagues to boycott Florida </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Emerald_Melios 04/15/21 6:12:16 PM #76:	whitelytning posted... That is nice to think about but its not how competitive sports work and that is what this issue is about. Competitive sports are a meritocracy where all that matters is winning. Society has created different subsets of competitive sports for biological differences because without these subsets some groups would not have any success in a truly competitive environment. This happens in areas other than male/female within sports in the form of age limits and weight classes. They are artificial classes to allow people to compete that wouldnt without being limited to the protected subset. Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. Its not hateful or anti-trans. So its an issue of weight class and sporting regulations. But then, would that not be better left to the discretion of the sporting leagues themselves, who set all other regulations already in place? A state-wide bill like this seems to be just an excuse to give bigots a way to use transgender people as a punching bag for their own failings and insecurity. <cite>Emerald_Melios posted [p:952873357] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>whitelytning posted... </cite> <quote>That is nice to think about but its not how competitive sports work and that is what this issue is about. Competitive sports are a meritocracy where all that matters is winning. Society has created different subsets of competitive sports for biological differences because without these subsets some groups would not have any success in a truly competitive environment. This happens in areas other than male/female within sports in the form of age limits and weight classes. They are artificial classes to allow people to compete that wouldnt without being limited to the protected subset. Allowing people with elevated biological abilities to compete in a subset that was created to offer more competition to a group that needed the protection destroys the system. Its not hateful or anti-trans.</quote>So its an issue of weight class and sporting regulations. But then, would that not be better left to the discretion of the sporting leagues themselves, who set all other regulations already in place? A state-wide bill like this seems to be just an excuse to give bigots a way to use transgender people as a punching bag for their own failings and insecurity. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
whitelytning 04/15/21 6:37:02 PM #77:	Emerald_Melios posted... So its an issue of weight class and sporting regulations. But then, would that not be better left to the discretion of the sporting leagues themselves, who set all other regulations already in place? A state-wide bill like this seems to be just an excuse to give bigots a way to use transgender people as a punching bag for their own failings and insecurity. This is a fair point that I dont really disagree with. It does seem odd that the republicans seem to care about this but not the general exploitation of college athletes by the NCAA or literally a thousand other things that are more important; but the GOP is going to GOP. I think ultimately, at the highest levels the sports bodies will have to make a decision at some point. Testosterone levels will be one of the easier things to point too. In horse racing for example, there are different expectations for the three types of horses that race (males, females, and geldings or castrated males). When the blood tests are done there are different allowable levels of testosterone based on what is supposed to be naturally occurring in that animal. That seems like the most obvious system to borrow from. I think the NCAA is going to regret its current position at some point when the issue comes up at the womens championship levels in wrestling or solo events but for now they can play politics too. --- ************************************************ https://imgur.com/iZdWIKJ <cite>whitelytning posted [p:952874280] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Emerald_Melios posted... </cite> <quote>So its an issue of weight class and sporting regulations. But then, would that not be better left to the discretion of the sporting leagues themselves, who set all other regulations already in place? A state-wide bill like this seems to be just an excuse to give bigots a way to use transgender people as a punching bag for their own failings and insecurity.</quote> This is a fair point that I dont really disagree with. It does seem odd that the republicans seem to care about this but not the general exploitation of college athletes by the NCAA or literally a thousand other things that are more important; but the GOP is going to GOP. I think ultimately, at the highest levels the sports bodies will have to make a decision at some point. Testosterone levels will be one of the easier things to point too. In horse racing for example, there are different expectations for the three types of horses that race (males, females, and geldings or castrated males). When the blood tests are done there are different allowable levels of testosterone based on what is supposed to be naturally occurring in that animal. That seems like the most obvious system to borrow from. I think the NCAA is going to regret its current position at some point when the issue comes up at the womens championship levels in wrestling or solo events but for now they can play politics too. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
sneakysnake 04/15/21 6:39:49 PM #78:	How much upper limit anabolic steroids should be approved for use? Who should get more than the other? <cite>sneakysnake posted [p:952874378] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>How much upper limit anabolic steroids should be approved for use? Who should get more than the other? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Perascamin 04/15/21 11:19:27 PM #79:	I mean if you want to be hyper literal, then yeah, women's leagues don't exist for the purpose that women are weaker than men. But the reason why women's leagues have remained is utterly clear. --- I've grown. <cite>Perascamin posted [p:952883717] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>I mean if you want to be hyper literal, then yeah, women's leagues don't exist for the purpose that women are weaker than men. But the reason why women's leagues have remained is utterly clear. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/16/21 7:02:36 AM #80:	Perascamin posted... But the reason why women's leagues have remained is utterly clear. No it isn't. It's just your supposition based on what you think is happening and actually isn't. That's why I made my point. You're trying to play up some ultra-scientific contextualization for the separation of the genders in sports and I'm telling you it was entirely arbitrary. You're making an appeal to a scientific history that doesn't exist for the sake of making an argument about transwomen. You don't get to move the goalposts and just assume this is how it's happening now, particularly not without proof. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952891065] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Perascamin posted... </cite> <quote>But the reason why women's leagues have remained is utterly clear.</quote>No it isn't. It's just your supposition based on what you think is happening and actually isn't. That's why I made my point. You're trying to play up some ultra-scientific contextualization for the separation of the genders in sports and I'm telling you it was entirely arbitrary. You're making an appeal to a scientific history that doesn't exist for the sake of making an argument about transwomen. You don't get to move the goalposts and just assume this is how it's happening now, particularly not without proof. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
XboxLegendary 04/16/21 7:08:04 AM #81:	This poll results are restoring my faith in humanity. <cite>XboxLegendary posted [p:952891160] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>This poll results are restoring my faith in humanity. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/16/21 7:13:23 AM #82:	XboxLegendary posted... This poll results are restoring my faith in humanity. Will you personally offer to perform the genital inspections? What other aspects of a trans person's life should the government be regulating, in your opinion? --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952891233] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>XboxLegendary posted... </cite> <quote>This poll results are restoring my faith in humanity.</quote>Will you personally offer to perform the genital inspections? What other aspects of a trans person's life should the government be regulating, in your opinion? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
shnangyboos 04/16/21 7:17:13 AM #83:	Here's where people who don't care about sports start caring about sports. --- How's my posting? Call http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/182361-human-resource-machine for any comments or concerns. <cite>shnangyboos posted [p:952891290] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Here's where people who don't care about sports start caring about sports. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 04/16/21 7:53:52 AM #84:	whats more important? womens sports and female athletes, or inclusivity of transgendered people? why don't transgendered people have their own league? <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:952891827] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>whats more important? womens sports and female athletes, or inclusivity of transgendered people? why don't transgendered people have their own league? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
toadfan64 04/16/21 8:40:15 AM #85:	Transwomen maintain an athletic edge over women, point blank. "two years on, trans women were still 12 percent faster on the 1.5 mile-run than their cisgender peers." https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref --- Brawl FC - 5412-9555-6314 Also known as Toadfan64 <cite>toadfan64 posted [p:952892746] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Transwomen maintain an athletic edge over women, point blank. "two years on, trans women were still 12 percent faster on the 1.5 mile-run than their cisgender peers." https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 04/16/21 8:42:27 AM #86:	toadfan64 posted... Transwomen maintain an athletic edge over women, point blank. "two years on, trans women were still 12 percent faster on the 1.5 mile-run than their cisgender peers." https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref And how many trans women in the surgery started puberty blockers in their youth? 0? Thought so. Kloe_Rinz posted... whats more important? womens sports and female athletes, or inclusivity of transgendered people? why don't transgendered people have their own league? Why don't we let women participate with women? Hmm. Oh wait you called them transgendered which isn't a word, and have not referred to them as women but instead just people. Word use is everything. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:952892799] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>toadfan64 posted... </cite> <quote>Transwomen maintain an athletic edge over women, point blank. "two years on, trans women were still 12 percent faster on the 1.5 mile-run than their cisgender peers." https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2020/11/06/bjsports-2020-102329.full?ijkey=yjlCzZVZFRDZzHz&keytype=ref</quote>And how many trans women in the surgery started puberty blockers in their youth? 0? Thought so. Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>whats more important? womens sports and female athletes, or inclusivity of transgendered people? why don't transgendered people have their own league?</quote>Why don't we let women participate with women? Hmm. Oh wait you called them transgendered which isn't a word, and have not referred to them as women but instead just people. Word use is everything. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 04/16/21 8:44:04 AM #87:	gunplagirl posted... Why don't we let women participate with women? Hmm. Oh wait you called them transgendered which isn't a word, and have not referred to them as women but instead just people. Word use is everything. I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anti-trans. You ned to stop acting so hostile to people posing a serious question. You understand what it is I'm asking but are dodging. <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:952892834] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>gunplagirl posted... </cite> <quote>Why don't we let women participate with women? Hmm. Oh wait you called them transgendered which isn't a word, and have not referred to them as women but instead just people. Word use is everything.</quote>I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anti-trans. You ned to stop acting so hostile to people posing a serious question. You understand what it is I'm asking but are dodging. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ilishe 04/16/21 8:44:56 AM #88:	Sheiky-Baby posted... Francis Ngannou vs Amanda Nunes, NAO. That's unfair, he is twice her weight. Get someone of similar weight like maybe Mighty Mouse. Spoiler, he'll kill her in the ring anyway. --- ~Phoenix Nine~ ~Victory needs no explanation; defeat allows none.~ <cite>Ilishe posted [p:952892854] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Sheiky-Baby posted... </cite> <quote>Francis Ngannou vs Amanda Nunes, NAO.</quote> That's unfair, he is twice her weight. Get someone of similar weight like maybe Mighty Mouse. Spoiler, he'll kill her in the ring anyway. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Pus_N_Pecans 04/16/21 8:46:03 AM #89:	Kloe_Rinz posted... I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anti-trans. You ned to stop acting so hostile to people posing a serious question. I mean, to be fair, youre using a common transphobic dogwhistle when you use the word transgendered. --- My arts- https://www.deviantart.com/bleakcreep <cite>Pus_N_Pecans posted [p:952892882] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>I'm not trying to be antagonistic or anti-trans. You ned to stop acting so hostile to people posing a serious question.</quote>I mean, to be fair, youre using a common transphobic dogwhistle when you use the word transgendered. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/16/21 8:48:00 AM #90:	Is it funny or just sad that all our good old boys who never shut up about percentages and bone density and chromosomes have now found themselves on the side of government-mandated genital inspections and it hasn't slowed them down a bit? Guess you really can't shame the shameless. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952892939] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Is it funny or just sad that all our good old boys who never shut up about percentages and bone density and chromosomes have now found themselves on the side of government-mandated genital inspections and it hasn't slowed them down a bit? Guess you really can't shame the shameless. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 04/16/21 8:48:14 AM #91:	Pus_N_Pecans posted... I mean, to be fair, youre using a common transphobic dogwhistle when you use the word transgendered. It's like asking why black people don't just go back to Africa. Yeah, some people ask it seriously. But the entire idea behind it is worthy of scorn and mockery regardless. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:952892946] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Pus_N_Pecans posted... </cite> <quote>I mean, to be fair, youre using a common transphobic dogwhistle when you use the word transgendered.</quote>It's like asking why black people don't just go back to Africa. Yeah, some people ask it seriously. But the entire idea behind it is worthy of scorn and mockery regardless. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_True_King 04/16/21 8:55:47 AM #92:	Wrestled for 15 years and am I'm the middle of an mma journey for 8+ Imagine if I competed against one of these girls saying I'm trans. I would kill them like actually kill them. Strength difference is world's apart. If you want to kill female sports so bad just make everything intergender just know they won't hold many titles or records. --- PSN:Daniel_Shadow170 https://psnprofiles.com/Daniel_Shadow170 2x all-American wrestler and 155 NAGA champ pro fighter <cite>The_True_King posted [p:952893122] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Wrestled for 15 years and am I'm the middle of an mma journey for 8+ Imagine if I competed against one of these girls saying I'm trans. I would kill them like actually kill them. Strength difference is world's apart. If you want to kill female sports so bad just make everything intergender just know they won't hold many titles or records. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 04/16/21 8:56:14 AM #93:	Pus_N_Pecans posted... I mean, to be fair, youre using a common transphobic dogwhistle when you use the word transgendered. Well I didn't know that and if thats true then I apologise. Normally calling someone a person isn't a "dogwhistle". People don't need to be dicks about it if thats not the case in this scenario though. gunplagirl posted... It's like asking why black people don't just go back to Africa. It's not even remotely similar. <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:952893135] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Pus_N_Pecans posted... </cite> <quote>I mean, to be fair, youre using a common transphobic dogwhistle when you use the word transgendered.</quote>Well I didn't know that and if thats true then I apologise. Normally calling someone a person isn't a "dogwhistle". People don't need to be dicks about it if thats not the case in this scenario though. gunplagirl posted... </cite> <quote>It's like asking why black people don't just go back to Africa.</quote>It's not even remotely similar. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/16/21 8:59:16 AM #94:	The_True_King posted... Imagine if I competed against one of these girls saying I'm trans. So you're just assuming that this is what's happening. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952893200] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>The_True_King posted... </cite> <quote>Imagine if I competed against one of these girls saying I'm trans.</quote>So you're just assuming that this is what's happening. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 04/16/21 9:00:24 AM #95:	The_True_King posted... You're saying that you, a cis man, are exactly the same as transgender women. Basically, I'm gonna need you to shut the fuck up. And you're literally saying that trans women aren't women because apparently women won't hold any women's titles, despite the fact that trans women being women. So yeah. Kindly shut the hell up. Kloe_Rinz posted... Well I didn't know that and if thats true then I apologise. Normally calling someone a person isn't a "dogwhistle". People don't need to be dicks about it if thats not the case in this scenario though. It's not even remotely similar. You just argued when someone pointed out what you said is a dog whistle, and then put the onus on us rather than yourself for allegedly not knowing. Yeah, it's pretty comparable because it's a fucking offensive questions no matter how serious you are when you're asking. You need to shut the fuck up and listen when you're corrected instead of get combative. --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:952893225] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>The_True_King posted... </cite> <quote> </quote>You're saying that you, a cis man, are exactly the same as transgender women. Basically, I'm gonna need you to shut the fuck up. And you're literally saying that trans women aren't women because apparently women won't hold any women's titles, despite the fact that trans women being women. So yeah. Kindly shut the hell up. Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>Well I didn't know that and if thats true then I apologise. Normally calling someone a person isn't a "dogwhistle". People don't need to be dicks about it if thats not the case in this scenario though. It's not even remotely similar.</quote>You just argued when someone pointed out what you said is a dog whistle, and then put the onus on us rather than yourself for allegedly not knowing. Yeah, it's pretty comparable because it's a fucking offensive questions no matter how serious you are when you're asking. You need to shut the fuck up and listen when you're corrected instead of get combative. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kloe_Rinz 04/16/21 9:01:28 AM #96:	gunplagirl posted... You just argued when someone pointed out what you said is a dog whistle, and then put the onus on us rather than yourself for allegedly not knowing. Yeah, it's pretty comparable because it's a fucking offensive questions no matter how serious you are when you're asking. You need to shut the fuck up and listen when you're corrected instead of get combative. At the end of the day I had a question I wanted answered and you started an argument over it. That wasn't my intent but you're just egging it on. If you aren't going to have a peaceful discussion I'm out of here. <cite>Kloe_Rinz posted [p:952893246] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>gunplagirl posted... </cite> <quote>You just argued when someone pointed out what you said is a dog whistle, and then put the onus on us rather than yourself for allegedly not knowing. Yeah, it's pretty comparable because it's a fucking offensive questions no matter how serious you are when you're asking. You need to shut the fuck up and listen when you're corrected instead of get combative.</quote>At the end of the day I had a question I wanted answered and you started an argument over it. That wasn't my intent but you're just egging it on. If you aren't going to have a peaceful discussion I'm out of here. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
The_True_King 04/16/21 9:02:26 AM #97:	CyricZ posted... So you're just assuming that this is what's happening. It is actually. Thankfully people like me spoke up in my great state to actually save females and trans people. Hell id do an open challenge to any trans individual if you can beat me I will advocate and donate to any charity your pick. I can prove my point --- PSN:Daniel_Shadow170 https://psnprofiles.com/Daniel_Shadow170 2x all-American wrestler and 155 NAGA champ pro fighter <cite>The_True_King posted [p:952893272] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote>So you're just assuming that this is what's happening.</quote>It is actually. Thankfully people like me spoke up in my great state to actually save females and trans people. Hell id do an open challenge to any trans individual if you can beat me I will advocate and donate to any charity your pick. I can prove my point </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/16/21 9:03:13 AM #98:	Kloe_Rinz posted... At the end of the day I had a question I wanted answered You mean these questions? Kloe_Rinz posted... whats more important? womens sports and female athletes, or inclusivity of transgendered people? That seems less like a factually answerable question and more one that you already feel you have an answer for. why don't transgendered people have their own league? This has been explained in the topic, but because there aren't nearly enough trans women to sustain their own league in any given sporting event. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952893292] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>At the end of the day I had a question I wanted answered</quote> You mean these questions? Kloe_Rinz posted... </cite> <quote>whats more important? womens sports and female athletes, or inclusivity of transgendered people? </quote>That seems less like a factually answerable question and more one that you already feel you have an answer for. <quote>why don't transgendered people have their own league?</quote>This has been explained in the topic, but because there aren't nearly enough trans women to sustain their own league in any given sporting event. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CyricZ 04/16/21 9:04:08 AM #99:	The_True_King posted... It is actually. Thankfully people like me spoke up in my great state to actually save females and trans people. Hell id do an open challenge to any trans individual if you can beat me I will advocate and donate to any charity your pick. I can prove my point So, first paragraph, a lie. There are no cis men pretending to be trans women to win competitions. Second paragraph, an invitation to give you an opportunity to beat on trans women. You're a fun one. --- CyricZ He/him <cite>CyricZ posted [p:952893320] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>The_True_King posted... </cite> <quote>It is actually. Thankfully people like me spoke up in my great state to actually save females and trans people. Hell id do an open challenge to any trans individual if you can beat me I will advocate and donate to any charity your pick. I can prove my point</quote>So, first paragraph, a lie. There are no cis men pretending to be trans women to win competitions. Second paragraph, an invitation to give you an opportunity to beat on trans women. You're a fun one. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 04/16/21 9:04:35 AM #100:	CyricZ posted... So you're just assuming that this is what's happening. Isn't that the beauty of this whole situation? If transphobic people actually cared about the facts, they'd not be transphobic because they'd correct their behavior and stances on these issues. Instead, they spout made up scenarios that never happen to further justify their hatred. Oh, but they'll insist they're not full of hate, they just go off with (some bs excuse about protecting women or whatever else they want, bonus points for their side if that scenario also misgenders trans people). --- tfw no big tiddy goth vampire gf who lactates blood - viewmaster_pi <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:952893335] in Bill banni... [t:79405598]...</cite> <quote>CyricZ posted... </cite> <quote>So you're just assuming that this is what's happening.</quote>Isn't that the beauty of this whole situation? If transphobic people actually cared about the facts, they'd not be transphobic because they'd correct their behavior and stances on these issues. Instead, they spout made up scenarios that never happen to further justify their hatred. Oh, but they'll insist they're not full of hate, they just go off with (some bs excuse about protecting women or whatever else they want, bonus points for their side if that scenario also misgenders trans people). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Bill banning trans athletes from school, college sports passes Florida House (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Bill banning trans athletes from school, college sports passes Florida House