Current Events > MCU got real preachy with Falcon&Winter Soldier

(+) Yeah! (+)

Girl has boyfriend = romantic
Boy has boyfriend = political

White man deals with bad cops = thrilling
Black man deals with bad cops = liberal nonsense

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hockeybub89 posted...

Girl has boyfriend = romantic
Boy has boyfriend = political

White man deals with bad cops = thrilling
Black man deals with bad cops = liberal nonsense

You just described the MO of every Republican on the board

Frolex posted...

Just like racial divisions stopped existing after the revolutionary war. or the civil war. or world war 2. or the cold war. or 9/11. Or covid-19.

None of which were aliens or had half the world's population literally disappearing within a few minutes.

My problem isn't the stuff with Isaiah, how he reacts is to be expected. My problem is the show implying that MCU 2023 would be exactly the same as our world was in the 1950s.

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I think what some people's points here are trying to make that current issues shouldn't be shallow, if said director wants to delve into this subject that it shouldn't be half-assed.

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Gamerguymass posted...

None of which were aliens or had half the world's population literally disappearing within a few minutes.

So hundreds of years worth of world changing events naturally wouldn't eliminate racial divisions, but the MCU still having racism stretches your suspension of disbelief too far huh?

Gamerguymass posted...

My problem isn't the stuff with Isaiah, how he reacts is to be expected. My problem is the show implying that MCU 2023 would be exactly the same as our world was in the 1950s.

of course, a world where racism exists is exactly the same as the 1950's, the final decade where racism was a problem in america

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It's okay to say it made you uncomfortable @Gamerguymass

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AmericaTheBrave posted...

It's okay to say it made you uncomfortable @Gamerguymass

I wonder if the mass stands for Massachusetts because it would make sense

Gamerguymass posted...

My problem is the show implying that MCU 2023 would be exactly the same as our world was in the 1950s.

We still have actual, literal Nazis in positions of power in our country. Here. In 2021.

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They only introduce things in order to steer them toward reinforcing a precept. There is no subtlety to it either. It is at times very patronizing.

It's not wrong to call someone out on being pretentious.

FortuneCookie posted...

It's not wrong to call someone out on being pretentious.

I dont think anyones arguing that.

I think everyone reasonable would agree you cant tell the story of Sam becoming Captain America without telling Isaiahs story.

I think everyone reasonable, would also agree that The MCU told his story the safest way they possibly could.

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Kaliesto posted...

I think what some people's points here are trying to make that current issues shouldn't be shallow, if said director wants to delve into this subject that it shouldn't be half-assed.

Most people ITT would rather ridicule what they perceive as white fragility so they can feel like good people for minimal effort than acknowledge this.

Also, a lot of people shill for the MCU so there is that too

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This always happens. Someone criticizes a show or game for being preachy and then every woke person alive has to come defend it because they think they are combating racists.

Sorry virtue signalers, no nazis for you to fight, just bad storytelling.

JustMyOpinion posted...

Nice shitpost, kid.

And his name is Chadwick 69 its so obvious

I know this is going to offend woke people, but

I'm super liberal and I hate being pandered to. There's lots of really bad woke pandering out there and it bothers me that people pretend there isn't. There's also a lot of great woke material out there and everything in-between.

In the case of Falcon and the Winter Soldier the woke stuff is super surface level stuff. It'd work much better if they went all in on it instead of mostly just bringing it up when Isaiah is on screen.

Instead, this show is really trying it's hardest to paint Walker as unlikable and a group of terrorists as sympathetic. Which is way more WTF than anything the show has ever tried to say about race.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier has much bigger problems than making a half hearted attempt at pandering.

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TommyG663513 posted...

In the case of Falcon and the Winter Soldier the woke stuff is super surface level stuff. It'd work much better if they went all in on it instead of mostly just bringing it up when Isaiah is on screen.

See, unless it's an independant production, companies will never ever go for this. This is a systemic thing that goes deep. They will always keep it surface level because if you dig deeper there's gonna be protests over it
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LightningAce11 posted...

See, unless it's an independant production, companies will never ever go for this. This is a systemic thing that goes deep. They will always keep it surface level because if you dig deeper there's gonna be protests over it

I mean, even the relatively tame version of it we have already has racist white dudes losing their shit.

Regardless, I always saw stuff like this as incremental. I didn't expect the MCU to fully deep dive into racial issues (hell, I didn't expect it from this show at all), but the fact that it's at least getting a conversation started is a good thing. I also don't think the show would have touched on this subject so much if Black Panther didn't already open the floor.

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Are you guys ever going to shut the fuck up about this stuff. Seriously you whine anytime reality is shown in media. JFC get over it

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

We still have actual, literal Nazis in positions of power in our country. Here. In 2021.

No we don't. White supremacists in America =/= Nazis.

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Gamerguymass posted...

No we don't. White supremacists in America =/= Nazis.

"They aren't time traveling members of the Third Reich so they aren't 'literally' Nazis. I am very intellectually honest."

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Redfeather posted...

They only introduce things in order to steer them toward reinforcing a precept. There is no subtlety to it either. It is at times very patronizing.

You're expecting subtlety from the MCU? Holy Scorsese Cap!

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Gamerguymass posted...

No we don't. White supremacists in America =/= Nazis.

Did you go to barber school to learn to split hairs so finely?

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hockeybub89 posted...

"They aren't time traveling members of the Third Reich so they aren't 'literally' Nazis. I am very intellectually honest."

No, because Nazis weren't actually white supremacists. They were supremacists. They thought the Germans were Aryans and they were superior to everyone else, including all other whites. They put more white people to death in the concentration camps then anyone else. Or do Slavs not count?

Furthermore Nazis had a stated goal of ruling the world by invasion and the systematic extermination of all others on earth deemed inferior, which also included the majority of white people. As far as I am aware white supremacists in America haven't announced a desire, let alone actual plans, to invade every other country on earth and put them all to death. They don't even all agree as to what they want for non-whites. Some just want non-whites to basically sit down and shut up and if they essentially "go to the back of the bus" they can stay in the country. Others want all non-whites to leave the country alltogether. As far as I know none of these groups have actually advocated for putting millions of people to death.

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LightningAce11 posted...

See, unless it's an independant production, companies will never ever go for this. This is a systemic thing that goes deep. They will always keep it surface level because if you dig deeper there's gonna be protests over it

I mean, I would say that it is because they focus group test this stuff and know the right amount of "wokeness" to put on screen that will sell the show to the most viewers

But I'm kind of just reframing your point so yeah

Also, woke issues can be pretty complex and it can take a lot of skill to weave them in with a narrative that both gives proper due to the woke issues and also creates a compelling story

It's just way easier to stay surface level on these things

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If another stupid-ass conservative uses "woke" one more time I'm gonna box someone's ears.

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Axiom posted...

Are you guys ever going to shut the fuck up about this stuff. Seriously you whine anytime reality is shown in media. JFC get over it

@Axiom

I take a lot of issue with people saying stuff like you just said, because your wording is super telling. Please stay calm and discuss an issue respectfully. Way too many people are eager to earn their woke points and label things as white fragility. Your post is the definition of someone whining.

Please discuss why you have an issue with someone's opinion in some sort of specific matter instead of speaking in whiny generalities.

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Doom_Art posted...

If another stupid-ass conservative uses "woke" one more time I'm gonna box someone's ears.

What other term would you use?

I get that if you say SJW people will get riled up and think you're alt right. Woke is a less extreme word than that. Do you have a better term that you prefer I use? I'm all ears, because frankly I don't like the term woke either. I am extremely open to alternatives.

If you don't have alternatives then well maybe you should just accept seeing the term woke

Also, I am nowhere near a conservative. Don't label people like that.

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TommyG663513 posted...

Please discuss

You people cry about the same shit everytime. There is no discussion to be had

The bottom line is you don't want to be reminded that anything involving discrimination exists so you cry about woke this SJW that while everyone else goes on about their lives so please keep yelling at the sky

TommyG663513 posted...

What other term would you use?

The only times I ever hear it is when someone is upset or uncomfortable with social issues being shown in media

Or when it's broadly applied to "any remotely leftist political thing I don't like"

The term basically has no meaning. It's the new "cultural marxism"

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Axiom posted...

You people cry about the same shit everytime. There is no discussion to be had

The bottom line is you don't want to be reminded that anything involving discrimination exists so you cry about woke this SJW that while everyone else goes on about their lives so please keep yelling at the sky

Um what?

Have you read any of the posts I've made ITT?

My position is that they're just giving surface level attention to social justice issues and that they'd be better served to go all in on social justice issues or not do them at all.

Maybe you should calm down and realize that I'm on your side here.

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Then you probably shouldn't have @'d me like my post was talking about you. Read the post you reply to next time

Doom_Art posted...

The only times I ever hear it is when someone is upset or uncomfortable with social issues being shown in media

Or when it's broadly applied to "any remotely leftist political thing I don't like"

The term basically has no meaning. It's the new "cultural marxism"

What term should I use then?

Or am I not allowed to discuss these things without being labeled as some alt right goon?

I'm using the terms right now so it definitely the only time you ever hear those words.

Maybe don't freak out when you hear those words and just have a calm discussion about stuff?

How is this a difficult concept to understand?

How are people so reactionary that they hear the terms woke or SJW that they start to foam at the mouth in anger?

Why can't other (like me, I've met many others) people understand nuance when dealing with issues like this? Social justice isn't always black and white. As much as I absolutely hate police and I hate the way they are terrorizing my state (MN) and committing senseless shootings that set of riots and protests there still is some necessity to law enforcement that we all have to live with. I say that just as an example and not to go too off topic here.

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TommyG663513 posted...

Maybe don't freak out when you hear those words and just have a calm discussion about stuff?

I'm not the one typing out an essay about it lol

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Axiom posted...

Then you probably shouldn't have @'d me like my post was talking about you. Read the post you reply to next time

@Axiom

Uh I read your post just fine. That was 100% your own assumption to call me conservative. Me responding to you doesn't mean that at all and it's just downright strange that you would go there.

I'm just sick of people like you who are so reactionary and willing to call people isms or cry babies.

If you want society to progress much like I do, then you need to engage in some conversations and treat people in good faith. You can talk a lot of people with various problematic beliefs off the ledge if you just treat them as humans. I've benefitted from other people doing the same thing for me and I hope to pay it forward to others.

Don't you feel like calmly talking to people about belief systems is a better way to get people to change than shouting at them? I mean, I can certainly relate to your anger and frustration, but that doesn't mean it is the most beneficial route to take.

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TommyG663513 posted...

Don't you feel like calmly talking to people about belief systems is a better way to get people to change

Lol

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Doom_Art posted...

I'm not the one typing out an essay about it lol

Ok. So what term should I use?

Since woke and SJW upset you and cause you to make all sorts of negative associations about that individual then what terms should be used?

If you can't bring up terms you think are better alternatives then maybe you shouldn't be upset when people use terms like SJW or woke.

Again, I'm on the side of saying Falcon and the Winter Soldier is handling woke issues in a very surface level way and the snow would be way better if they just went either all in or avoided it completely. Isaiah is basically just there to be a mouthpiece for these issues and he seems like an interesting character that I'd like to see more of, but not at all in the way they're using him. Maybe they have a lot more plans for him in the future which seems reasonable.

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Gamerguymass posted...

They don't even all agree as to what they want for non-whites. Some just want non-whites to basically sit down and shut up and if they essentially "go to the back of the bus" they can stay in the country. Others want all non-whites to leave the country alltogether. As far as I know none of these groups have actually advocated for putting millions of people to death.

You really need to do more reading on the history of the Nazi party if you think that this didnt apply to their members in the 30s

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Doom_Art posted...

Lol

@Doom_Art

What is with the lol?

It's a simple question. Is it better to shout at and/or dismiss people or can you just talk things out instead?

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Gamerguymass posted...

Do you really think people are going to be like well, thats all well and good, but I gotta hate those black guys. That's the priority.

Yes.
Gamerguymass posted...

Plus that line about America won't let there be a black Captain America is kind of bullshit. America elected a black president. Then re-elected him.

And what happened after that?

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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Yes.

And what happened after that?

And then what happened after that and what will happen after that?

For all we know, Trumpism may die a relatively quick death over the next few years and it will be a relatively small historical blip in our current timeframe.

I mean, I'm not honestly that optimistic, but we won't know until many years have passed.


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I'm not sure of the exact thing in the series being referenced because I haven't watched that far ahead yet

But anyone who needs media to reaffirm themselves of what's right and what's wrong are consuming it for the wrong reasons tbqh

I don't mind a little social commentary here and there but when it starts to feel like an author filibuster instead of a natural trajectory of the storyline then the average reader is gonna be lost

That's why I hate 1984's "book within a book" strategy

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AvantgardeAClue posted...

But anyone who needs media to reaffirm themselves of what's right and what's wrong are consuming it for the wrong reasons tbqh

The fact that this is a concern you have says more about you than anyone else tbh

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Gamerguymass posted...

My problem is the show implying that MCU 2023 would be exactly the same as our world was in the 1950s.

It would because people are people. End of.

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Doom_Art posted...

The fact that this is a concern you have says more about you than anyone else tbh

Can you elaborate on that?

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guys, remember when every piece of Captain America media, including the 3 MCU movies, weren't political at all? that was a fun time. but now TF&WS is so woke and sjw and shit, and I hate Marvel for making their stuff political for no reason.

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If a global pandemic couldn't stop racism what makes you think Thanos could

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Shut the fuck up Deadpool

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