Current Events > Am I the only one bothered by henchmen are just killed off in action movies?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I see this almost all the time (in fact, what the hell... all the time) in movies and TV shows, esp. big action or superhero movies.

I was just watching Falcon and Winter Soldier and this just really, really...bothered me. And i'm not a fan of the show anyway. Way too stupidly cheesy compared to the Russo masterpieces.

The big bad villian is the one destroying everything and killing people here and there, and when it comes to the ultimate showdown, the protagonist hero tries his best to save the villian or talk the person down.

Meanwhile all the henchmen of the villian are simply killed off like nothing. Hey, I know they're nameless expendable fodder but be realistic here, each of them is a f***ing human being too, no? Imagine each henchman probably having a family back home or perhaps he/she got forced to work for the villian or has second thoughts about converting to the good side. But NOPE, no chance for any of that. They're just killed off in 0.1 second screentime.

Meanwhile the big villian gets 10 minutes of slow motion death and the protoganist even mourns the villian!

Also on a related note ignoring all the other stupid plot holes in FATWS... (spoilers on ending), one big thing that also bugged me...

How in the world is Morgenthau killed so easily in 1-2 bullets? Meanwhile we saw Steve Rogers took probably about a dozen bullet shots from Bucky in the Winter Soldier movie. Then fell 100 metres or smth into the deep blue water, almost drowns, and somehow still survives intact.

Mackorov posted...

Also on a related note ignoring all the other stupid plot holes in FATWS... (spoilers on ending), one big thing that also bugged me...

How in the world is Morgenthau killed so easily in 1-2 bullets? Meanwhile we saw Steve Rogers took probably about a dozen bullet shots from Bucky in the Winter Soldier movie. Then fell 100 metres or smth into the deep blue water, almost drowns, and somehow still survives intact.

It's almost like the original super soldier formula has never been properly replicated every version since Erskine's has been worse. This is talked about in the show.

And Steve takes one bullet from Bucky in the side in Winter Soldier. Not sure where you got dozens. Karli took a straight gut shot.

Gotta wonder if you know what plot holes are.

James Bond does it all the time.

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Murphiroth posted...

It's almost like the original super soldier formula has never been properly replicated every version since Erskine's has been worse. This is talked about in the show.

And Steve takes one bullet from Bucky in the side in Winter Soldier. Not sure where you got dozens. Karli took a straight gut shot.

Gotta wonder if you know what plot holes are.

Dude, Sharon is not a supersoldier and she just survived too. From the same gut shot.

Also answer my original topic

If the henchmen didnt join the the main villain they would have just joined another anyway

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I always thought it was weird when I was young, especially if they made a huge deal about killing the villain but they stopped because they don't want to be just as bad.

And I'd be like "what about the 50 goons you just murdered?"

With Batman, at least the explanation is that he's only breaking bones, but even those injuries could eventually lead to death.

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https://youtu.be/Ag_AFraxj-4

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I like that episode of Regular Show where Mordecai ends up having to watch Satan or whoevers baby. And during it, the baby ends up putting another kid in harms way. So the dad sees that and he gets defensive and starts chasing them down. Then when they evade him and he falls in a pit. While he's falling he's yelling "I was the victim, I was just at the park trying to play with my kiiiids".

The perspective it put on it that so many people overlook just cause you're suppose to be rooting for Mordecai is hilarious. God damn that show has great moments. Moments that Im probably remembering slightly wrong.

I just felt like that was similar. Along the lines of were kind of influenced to not give a shit about these side chatacters with no backstory.

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Mackorov posted...

Dude, Sharon is not a supersoldier and she just survived too. From the same gut shot.

Also answer my original topic

Sharon might very well be a super soldier now. And Sharon took the shot to more the side like Steve did. And gun shots don't all act the exact same.

I feel like you're looking for shit to nitpick.

And the henchman thing is a big whatever. Pretty sure the only henchies who die in the show are Batroc's guys at the start, and they're in open combat with Sam and the US Military. Sam and Bucky don't kill any of the Flagsmashers.

refmon posted...

If the henchmen didnt join the the main villain they would have just joined another anyway

So somehow the henchmen with a lesser evil doings and intentions somehow gets no proper justice proceedings like the big bad villian does?

Oh wow I swear this board has one of the biggest biased Marvel love boner if I've ever seen one. FATWS must be like a 11/10 in your book

The biggest issue is the motivation of henchman to just toss themselves into death without a second thought. It's one thing when they're literal cult members like Hydra or people fighting for a cause they deem worth dying for, but some dudes probably making 150k to fart around some evil villain aren't going to be too inclined to just let themselves be fodderized.

Murphiroth posted...

Sharon might very well be a super soldier now. And Sharon took the shot to more the side like Steve did. And gun shots don't all act the exact same.

I feel like you're looking for shit to nitpick.

And the henchman thing is a big whatever. Pretty sure the only henchies who die in the show are Batroc's guys at the start, and they're in open combat with Sam and the US Military. Sam and Bucky don't kill any of the Flagsmashers.

Yeah, let's totally forget about every single time Bucky or Falcon picked up a gun and pulled the trigger.

Also somehow it's okay for Sharon to kill people left and right

Mackorov posted...

Yeah, let's totally forget about every single time Bucky or Falcon picked up a gun and pulled the trigger.

Also somehow it's okay for Sharon to kill people left and right

Provide examples.

I'm pretty sure Sam never wields a gun the entire show. And they don't kill any of the Flagsmashers, that's just a fact. They go H2H every encounter with them.

Mackorov posted...

Also somehow it's okay for Sharon to kill people left and right

See stuff like this makes me think you didn't watch the show and are just bitching to bitch.

Murphiroth posted...

Sharon might very well be a super soldier now. And Sharon took the shot to more the side like Steve did. And gun shots don't all act the exact same.

I feel like you're looking for shit to nitpick.

And the henchman thing is a big whatever. Pretty sure the only henchies who die in the show are Batroc's guys at the start, and they're in open combat with Sam and the US Military. Sam and Bucky don't kill any of the Flagsmashers.

Sharon, Bucky, Sam and Zemo killed a bunch of people during and before the lab scene.

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It bothers me too, especially if the superhero pulls his punches when it comes to the big bad.

Like dude you mowed your way through so many "down on his luck gang banger #2574559", but now that you're faced with the genocidal commander and chief you grow an ideology? Get the fuck out of here

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nemu posted...

The biggest issue is the motivation of henchman to just toss themselves into death without a second thought. It's one thing when they're literal cult members like Hydra or people fighting for a cause they deem worth dying for, but some dudes probably making 150k to fart around some evil villain aren't going to be too inclined to just let themselves be fodderized.

First of all, a lot of henchmen don't even get enough effin' screentime for us to know them. Like I mentioned in the topic title, who knows why they're even working as henchmen for? They could be doing it under durress, under influence, maybe mind-controlled, maybe just some random dude trying to make a dime.

Also you intentionally ignore the comparison to the main villian, which is the main point of this topic.

Austin Powers parodied this well.

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Murphiroth posted...

Provide examples.

I'm pretty sure Sam never wields a gun the entire show. And they don't kill any of the Flagsmashers, that's just a fact. They go H2H every encounter with them.

Dude, Sam has been dual wielding pistols since Winter Soldier. He literally blew up an entire helicopter full of people, threw enemies off in mid-air into obvious death and shot plenty of others. Even in Winter Soldier movie, he was shooting the enemies.

You're like the very definition of wearing rose-tinted glasses

Mackorov posted...

Dude, Sam has been dual wielding pistols since Winter Soldier. He literally blew up an entire helicopter full of people, threw enemies off in mid-air into obvious death and shot plenty of others.

You're like the very definition of wearing rose-tinted glasses

Dude I'm specifically talking about the show, where he no longer has the pistols.

Murphiroth posted...

Dude I'm specifically talking about the show, where he no longer has the pistols.

You must have missed the episode where they had a firefight at Madripoor

pinky0926 posted...

It bothers me too, especially if the superhero pulls his punches when it comes to the big bad.

Like dude you mowed your way through so many "down on his luck gang banger #2574559", but now that you're faced with the genocidal commander and chief you grow an ideology? Get the fuck out of here

Yeah, I faced the same problem playing Tomb Raider. Lara Croft was literally murdering people all the way like one motha' killing machine Punisher 2.0 then suddenly a cutscene comes up and she has to kill this baddie and she gets all emotional like it's her first time committing murder. Like jeez....wtf?

No, you're not alone, TC. The trope is off-putting and just makes the hero feel like a big ol' hypocrite.

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Why did John Wick let Kevin Nash go, but nobody else?

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InfinityMonster posted...

Why did John Wick let Kevin Nash go, but nobody else?

Because he's Kevin Nash duh

Mackorov posted...

You must have missed the episode where they had a firefight at Madripoor

My bad, I forgot that Sam has a gun in that scene. Frankly, though, they're being attacked in that scene and defending themselves, not really seeing the issue. I even rewatched it and Bucky tags two guys with the gun and another with a pole as a javelin, all survivable hits, Sam hits no one that I could see, Zemo and Sharon do most of the work. And I am correct in the fact that Sam no longer carries the dual pistols, as that gun was part of his Madripoor cover.

Very much a "who cares" situation, much like Batroc's mercs who are in open combat against the US Military at the start. The henchmen of the villain Sam actually tries to talk down? Not a single one killed.

My point mostly being that you're complaining about Sam trying to talk the big bad down while killing their henchmen but that didn't happen here.

Definitely happens elsewhere but I shrug and move on.

Yeah, this complaint doesn't hold up for this show. Sam dosen't kill any of the Flag Smashers because he's sympathetic to their cause. They kill a bunch of people in Madripoor, but those were all murderous assassins trying to kill them. In the first episode, Sam's in a military operation fighting enemies of the state.

Sam's not a hypocrite in this show.
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nemu posted...

The biggest issue is the motivation of henchman to just toss themselves into death without a second thought. It's one thing when they're literal cult members like Hydra or people fighting for a cause they deem worth dying for, but some dudes probably making 150k to fart around some evil villain aren't going to be too inclined to just let themselves be fodderized.

A lot of is explained as the henchmen fearing the villain and can't leave which makes sparing the villain who's the cause of everything even more stupid.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Yeah, this complaint doesn't hold up for this show. Sam dosen't kill any of the Flag Smashers because he's sympathetic to their cause. They kill a bunch of people in Madripoor, but those were all murderous assassins trying to kill them. In the first episode, Sam's in a military operation fighting enemies of the state.

Sam's not a hypocrite in this show.

RIGHT. So it's totally ok to kill these mercenaries trying to kill you but hasn't actually killed you and who knows, probably has never murdered anyone before but it's totally not OK to kill the Flag Smashers that have indeed murdered and pillaged so many places all over.

Mackorov posted...

RIGHT. So it's totally ok to kill these mercenaries trying to kill you but hasn't actually killed you and who knows, probably has never murdered anyone before

Okay, just be mad.

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GiftedACIII posted...

A lot of is explained as the henchmen fearing the villain and can't leave which makes sparing the villain who's the cause of everything even more stupid.

Yeah. And have you guys ever seen those movie scenes where the big boss villian brings in his henchman who betrayed him or decided to spare someone and start torturing the poor henchman?

Yet somehow we're made to sympathies more with this bad bad villian instead. Incredulous isn't it. It's like movies are just as easily able to twist and warp the audience's sense of morality.

archedsoul posted...

With Batman, at least the explanation is that he's only breaking bones, but even those injuries could eventually lead to death.

Their medical bills are keeping them locked in an endless cycle of perpetrating crime, and broken bones.

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Realistically, theres no way Batman hasnt given a bunch of people brain damage and probably paralyzed a bunch of people. Any random person walking down the street can potentially do that to you with a sucker punch, Batman is literally peak human physical condition (and also often has hard plastic or even metal gauntlets), and weve seen him grab a dude and hit him full strength in the face like 15x in a row.

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Mackorov posted...

RIGHT. So it's totally ok to kill these mercenaries trying to kill you but hasn't actually killed you

So they're only allowed to fight back...after they've been killed?

Stay mad, homie, you make no sense.

pinky0926 posted...

Austin Powers parodied this well.

"People never think how things affect the family of a henchman."

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Murphiroth posted...

So they're only allowed to fight back...after they've been killed?

Stay mad, homie, you make no sense.

you know how you can knock out enemies without killing them? ever heard of it??

Please go watch the past Captain America movies and see how Rogers does it

dragonsmasher posted...

https://youtu.be/Ag_AFraxj-4

thought of this upon seeing the topic

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Mackorov posted...

you know how you can knock out enemies without killing them? ever heard of it??

Please go watch the past Captain America movies and see how Rogers does it

You mean the same Rogers who hurled a bunch of Hydra mercs out of a plane and even threw one into a propeller in TFA? The same Rogers who punted a dude back first into a gas tank on the Lemurian Star and killed several other mercs in the opening of Winter Soldier? The same one who also kills several Hydra mercs in Civil War?

I'm fucking dying at your double standards though. Make sure to knock out the murderous goons trying to kill you, they might not be so bad!

Mackorov posted...

Also somehow it's okay for Sharon to kill people left and right

Uh. Pretty sure she's not a good guy anymore. Thought that was pretty clear.

You must've hated the intro scene of The Dark Knight.

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Youd hate anything with the Joker.

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