Current Events > Ivermectin Peer Reviewed Meta-Analysis

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joe40001 07/06/21 5:10:01 AM #251:	Here is the FDA justification to give Remdesivir to people. Not "say it might be helpful", not "stop advising against it", but full stop give it FDA (EUA) approval: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2020/214787Orig1s000Sumr.pdf That's the bar for FDA approval for a big pharma drug, nobody in true honesty could say Ivermectin doesn't come close to that. The main criticism is that the meta-analysis is bad because it was "cherry picked", ok cherry picked how? Prove it, the burden of proof on completely rejecting the possibility of a safe and potentially helpful drug is on the people trying to shut down all the data. You have the evidence it is good in the meta-analysis and all the studies, you can't just say "nuh-uh" and "cherry picked" and invalidate tons of good science. Idiots could just as easily do that with the vaccines, at some point you have to play fair, and if you are holding ivermectin to a completely higher standard than things that have more risk such as remdesivir you aren't talking in good faith. You are playing politics with a tool that could help save lives. Why? Because it vaguely feels "republican"? Because CNN hasn't give you their blessing yet? I can understand people who are skeptical in general, I can understand people who are unskeptical in general, but I can't understand people who look at the data and honestly come to the conclusion that 100% remdesivir should be FDA approved and Ivermectin shouldn't even be considered. There is no good faith intellectually honest way to come to that conclusion. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955791177] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Here is the FDA justification to give Remdesivir to people. Not "say it might be helpful", not "stop advising against it", but full stop give it FDA (EUA) approval: https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/nda/2020/214787Orig1s000Sumr.pdf That's the bar for FDA approval for a big pharma drug, nobody in true honesty could say Ivermectin doesn't come close to that. The main criticism is that the meta-analysis is bad because it was "cherry picked", ok cherry picked how? Prove it, the burden of proof on completely rejecting the possibility of a safe and potentially helpful drug is on the people trying to shut down all the data. You have the evidence it is good in the meta-analysis and all the studies, you can't just say "nuh-uh" and "cherry picked" and invalidate tons of good science. Idiots could just as easily do that with the vaccines, at some point you have to play fair, and if you are holding ivermectin to a completely higher standard than things that have more risk such as remdesivir you aren't talking in good faith. You are playing politics with a tool that could help save lives. Why? Because it vaguely feels "republican"? Because CNN hasn't give you their blessing yet? I can understand people who are skeptical in general, I can understand people who are unskeptical in general, but I can't understand people who look at the data and honestly come to the conclusion that 100% remdesivir should be FDA approved and Ivermectin shouldn't even be considered. There is no good faith intellectually honest way to come to that conclusion. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/06/21 5:51:52 PM #252:	Fyi, none of us actually use Remdesivir Also, for the love of all that is tasty, please stop this crap. It informs no one --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955811340] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Fyi, none of us actually use Remdesivir Also, for the love of all that is tasty, please stop this crap. It informs no one </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
C_Pain 07/06/21 5:54:15 PM #253:	all studies are biased and bs! --- How quaint. <cite>C_Pain posted [p:955811413] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>all studies are biased and bs! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Shezarr 07/06/21 5:58:42 PM #254:	Can we just warn him again --- The artist formerly known as RebelElite791 <cite>Shezarr posted [p:955811552] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Can we just warn him again </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnholyMudcrab 07/06/21 5:58:57 PM #255:	Shezarr posted... Can we just warn him again And actually let the topic purge this time --- https://imgur.com/VeNBg https://imgur.com/gd5jC8q https://imgur.com/PKIy7 https://imgur.com/3p29JqP <cite>UnholyMudcrab posted [p:955811561] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Shezarr posted... </cite> <quote>Can we just warn him again</quote>And actually let the topic purge this time </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/06/21 6:35:02 PM #256:	DarkRoast posted... Fyi, none of us actually use Remdesivir If you had to give 1 to a patient Remdesivir or Ivermectin, which would you give? Also, for the love of all that is tasty, please stop this crap. It informs no one It informs anybody who is interested in knowing about promising studies into safe COVID treatments/preventions that are available to the people who can't otherwise get vaccinated, something we should all care about. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955812704] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>Fyi, none of us actually use Remdesivir</quote> If you had to give 1 to a patient Remdesivir or Ivermectin, which would you give? <quote>Also, for the love of all that is tasty, please stop this crap. It informs no one</quote> It informs anybody who is interested in knowing about promising studies into safe COVID treatments/preventions that are available to the people who can't otherwise get vaccinated, something we should all care about. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/06/21 10:03:23 PM #257:	If you had to give 1 to a patient Remdesivir or Ivermectin, which would you give Dexamethasone --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955819730] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>If you had to give 1 to a patient Remdesivir or Ivermectin, which would you give Dexamethasone </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DarkRoast 07/06/21 10:14:39 PM #259:	TC's a shill for Big Pharma --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955820135] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote> TC's a shill for Big Pharma </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/07/21 7:26:22 AM #260:	DarkRoast posted... If you had to give 1 to a patient Remdesivir or Ivermectin, which would you give Dexamethasone That wasn't one of the options. DarkRoast posted... TC's a shill for Big Pharma There is no good reason it should cost that much considering it's off patent and cheap to make. But it's applications are more for places like India where they don't have major access to the vaccine and big pharma doesn't hike their prices on generics. In fact there is a lot of data pointing to India already benefiting from widespread ivermectin use. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955829601] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>If you had to give 1 to a patient Remdesivir or Ivermectin, which would you give Dexamethasone</quote> That wasn't one of the options. DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote> TC's a shill for Big Pharma</quote> There is no good reason it should cost that much considering it's off patent and cheap to make. But it's applications are more for places like India where they don't have major access to the vaccine and big pharma doesn't hike their prices on generics. In fact there is a lot of data pointing to India already benefiting from widespread ivermectin use. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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COVxy 07/07/21 9:22:22 AM #262:	Joe, "of course I can understand a scientific article, it's in English", numbers. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:955831666] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Joe, "of course I can understand a scientific article, it's in English", numbers. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/07/21 2:57:02 PM #263:	https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1412635850903486467?s=19 A review of all of the literature that found positive associations resulted in only two articles, both low quality, that actually showed this. --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955841464] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1412635850903486467?s=19 A review of all of the literature that found positive associations resulted in only two articles, both low quality, that actually showed this. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
teep_ 07/07/21 3:10:00 PM #264:	DarkRoast posted... https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1412635850903486467?s=19 A review of all of the literature that found positive associations resulted in only two articles, both low quality, that actually showed this. Indeed, the entirety of the ivermectin benefit across all of the literature appears to come down entirely to these two pretty low-quality pieces of research [...] is extremely concerning that all of the benefit seen for ivermectin seems to come from just 2 studies [...] In the absence of new evidence (this meta-analysis doesn't really count), I reckon that the only reasonable stance is that we don't really know if ivermectin works, and probably should not be using it outside of clinical trials --- Stand Proud <cite>teep_ posted [p:955841913] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/GidMK/status/1412635850903486467?s=19 A review of all of the literature that found positive associations resulted in only two articles, both low quality, that actually showed this.</quote> <quote>Indeed, the entirety of the ivermectin benefit across all of the literature appears to come down entirely to these two pretty low-quality pieces of research [...] is extremely concerning that all of the benefit seen for ivermectin seems to come from just 2 studies [...] In the absence of new evidence (this meta-analysis doesn't really count), I reckon that the only reasonable stance is that we don't really know if ivermectin works, and probably should not be using it outside of clinical trials</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 07/07/21 3:35:12 PM #265:	There's a misnomer here in that you could find a significant meta-analytic effect even if all of the individual studies found no significant effect. I'd just say that, at best, what's being shown is weak evidence for a positive effect. Which certainly doesn't call for clinical use, never mind instead of vaccination. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:955842737] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>There's a misnomer here in that you could find a significant meta-analytic effect even if all of the individual studies found no significant effect. I'd just say that, at best, what's being shown is weak evidence for a positive effect. Which certainly doesn't call for clinical use, never mind instead of vaccination. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/07/21 3:54:55 PM #266:	COVxy posted... There's a misnomer here in that you could find a significant meta-analytic effect even if all of the individual studies found no significant effect. I'd just say that, at best, what's being shown is weak evidence for a positive effect. Which certainly doesn't call for clinical use, never mind instead of vaccination. Given that the evidence for dexamethasone is much stronger, and the drug itself is much cheaper, I can't think of a rational reason to prescribe Ivermectin instead. --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955843454] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>COVxy posted... </cite> <quote>There's a misnomer here in that you could find a significant meta-analytic effect even if all of the individual studies found no significant effect. I'd just say that, at best, what's being shown is weak evidence for a positive effect. Which certainly doesn't call for clinical use, never mind instead of vaccination.</quote> Given that the evidence for dexamethasone is much stronger, and the drug itself is much cheaper, I can't think of a rational reason to prescribe Ivermectin instead. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 07/07/21 4:08:08 PM #267:	DarkRoast posted... Given that the evidence for dexamethasone is much stronger, and the drug itself is much cheaper, I can't think of a rational reason to prescribe Ivermectin instead. Like I said, I'm not saying there's good evidence to suggest clinical use here. Just that the fact that only two studies show a strong positive effect doesn't necessarily say anything important for the detection of any effect at all. All and all seems consistent with a weak positive effect that would require far more samples to really detect. Never really been a fan of meta-analysis generally anyway. Seems too unreasonable to collapse data across a myriad of known and unknown differences. Sometimes they can be useful for documenting potential moderators that account for differences across the literature. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:955843929] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>Given that the evidence for dexamethasone is much stronger, and the drug itself is much cheaper, I can't think of a rational reason to prescribe Ivermectin instead.</quote> Like I said, I'm not saying there's good evidence to suggest clinical use here. Just that the fact that only two studies show a strong positive effect doesn't necessarily say anything important for the detection of any effect at all. All and all seems consistent with a weak positive effect that would require far more samples to really detect. Never really been a fan of meta-analysis generally anyway. Seems too unreasonable to collapse data across a myriad of known and unknown differences. Sometimes they can be useful for documenting potential moderators that account for differences across the literature. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/07/21 4:34:42 PM #268:	It's also a problem when the meta-analysis has highly variable levels of study quality weighted equally --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955844856] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>It's also a problem when the meta-analysis has highly variable levels of study quality weighted equally </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Frolex 07/07/21 4:36:49 PM #269:	joe40001 posted... In fact there is a lot of data pointing to India already benefiting from widespread ivermectin use. then why did they stop using it joseph? --- https://imgur.com/HOLHd4k https://imgur.com/six2WTN <cite>Frolex posted [p:955844939] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>In fact there is a lot of data pointing to India already benefiting from widespread ivermectin use.</quote> then why did they stop using it joseph? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/07/21 4:37:27 PM #270:	COVxy posted... Joe, "of course I can understand a scientific article, it's in English", numbers. Yes, and? [LFAQs-redacted-quote] I'm not doing a bit, there is a lot of bad faith gaslighting from the mainstream trying to shut down ivermectin. I'm not sure if the people attacking it in this topic are taking part in the gas lighting or have just fallen for it, but just like with lab leak it's clear from the evidence what is likely to be true, even if for some dumb reason a lot of the mainstream is pretending like it isn't. DR was wrong about lab leak and never acknowledged it. They seem to not be the type of person who cares about factual truth. Right now there's more data supporting ivermectin's safety and efficacy than there was for remdesivir when it got FDA approval. It's bad faith and dangerous for society itself to try to gaslight the idea that it couldn't be a useful tool in the fight against COVID. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955844969] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>COVxy posted... </cite> <quote>Joe, "of course I can understand a scientific article, it's in English", numbers.</quote> Yes, and? <cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> I'm not doing a bit, there is a lot of bad faith gaslighting from the mainstream trying to shut down ivermectin. I'm not sure if the people attacking it in this topic are taking part in the gas lighting or have just fallen for it, but just like with lab leak it's clear from the evidence what is likely to be true, even if for some dumb reason a lot of the mainstream is pretending like it isn't. DR was wrong about lab leak and never acknowledged it. They seem to not be the type of person who cares about factual truth. Right now there's more data supporting ivermectin's safety and efficacy than there was for remdesivir when it got FDA approval. It's bad faith and dangerous for society itself to try to gaslight the idea that it couldn't be a useful tool in the fight against COVID. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 07/07/21 4:42:12 PM #272:	metallica846 posted... All that seems like a bit. When I have I done a bit? The MLK thing was a clear setup that I revealed obviously, it wasn't a bit. The unfortunate reality is in these days for some reason the mainstream news has become somewhat captured such that things like lab leak which are obviously plausible get gaslighted into being called debunked and conspiracy and get literally banned from being discussed. It's not on me that society is currently fucked like this. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955845121] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>metallica846 posted... </cite> <quote>All that seems like a bit.</quote> When I have I done a bit? The MLK thing was a clear setup that I revealed obviously, it wasn't a bit. The unfortunate reality is in these days for some reason the mainstream news has become somewhat captured such that things like lab leak which are obviously plausible get gaslighted into being called debunked and conspiracy and get literally banned from being discussed. It's not on me that society is currently fucked like this. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Frolex 07/07/21 4:53:29 PM #273:	joe40001 posted... The unfortunate reality is in these days for some reason the mainstream news has become somewhat captured such that things like lab leak which are obviously plausible people didn't shit on you because they don't think it's possible covid leaked from a lab. they shit on because you said it's the most likely source with zero evidence to support that claim. if you're gonna be a sad human, be a sad and honest human. --- https://imgur.com/HOLHd4k https://imgur.com/six2WTN <cite>Frolex posted [p:955845504] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>The unfortunate reality is in these days for some reason the mainstream news has become somewhat captured such that things like lab leak which are obviously plausible</quote> people didn't shit on you because they don't think it's possible covid leaked from a lab. they shit on because you said it's the most likely source with zero evidence to support that claim. if you're gonna be a sad human, be a sad and honest human. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/07/21 4:57:27 PM #274:	joe40001 posted... When I have I done a bit? The MLK thing was a clear setup that I revealed obviously, it wasn't a bit. The unfortunate reality is in these days for some reason the mainstream news has become somewhat captured such that things like lab leak which are obviously plausible get gaslighted into being called debunked and conspiracy and get literally banned from being discussed. It's not on me that society is currently fucked like this. Spreading misinformation and unverified BS in an era where misinformation and unverified BS is literally costing lives doesn't make you a victim. --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955845656] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>When I have I done a bit? The MLK thing was a clear setup that I revealed obviously, it wasn't a bit. The unfortunate reality is in these days for some reason the mainstream news has become somewhat captured such that things like lab leak which are obviously plausible get gaslighted into being called debunked and conspiracy and get literally banned from being discussed. It's not on me that society is currently fucked like this.</quote> Spreading misinformation and unverified BS in an era where misinformation and unverified BS is literally costing lives doesn't make you a victim. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
NightMarishPie 07/07/21 5:00:49 PM #275:	This thread has given me even less faith in ivermectin. --- "Who dares, wins" 3DS FC: 1521 3697 7272 <cite>NightMarishPie posted [p:955845775] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>This thread has given me even less faith in ivermectin. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ooooooranges 07/07/21 5:13:45 PM #276:	Why are you trying to act intelligent while quoting a terrible meta analysis? It demonstrates how poor you are at interpreting literature. --- http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/2011/10/10/pujols_85507.jpg <cite>Ooooooranges posted [p:955846237] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Why are you trying to act intelligent while quoting a terrible meta analysis? It demonstrates how poor you are at interpreting literature. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnholyMudcrab 07/07/21 5:28:39 PM #277:	Ooooooranges posted... Why are you trying to act intelligent while quoting a terrible meta analysis? It demonstrates how poor you are at interpreting literature. But he can read English. That's all you need to interpret literature. --- https://imgur.com/VeNBg https://imgur.com/gd5jC8q https://imgur.com/PKIy7 https://imgur.com/3p29JqP <cite>UnholyMudcrab posted [p:955846706] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Ooooooranges posted...</cite> <quote>Why are you trying to act intelligent while quoting a terrible meta analysis? It demonstrates how poor you are at interpreting literature.</quote> But he can read English. That's all you need to interpret literature.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DarkRoast 07/07/21 5:34:41 PM #278:	Dunning-Kruger. Simple as that. When you lack enough knowledge to be able to accurately recognize your lack of knowledge. --- Razer Blade 15 - Core i7-9750H, 32 GB RAM (2666), RTX 2080 MQ <cite>DarkRoast posted [p:955846872] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Dunning-Kruger. Simple as that. When you lack enough knowledge to be able to accurately recognize your lack of knowledge. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
g0ldie 07/07/21 9:36:04 PM #279:	DarkRoast posted... Dunning-Kruger. Simple as that. When you lack enough knowledge to be able to accurately recognize your lack of knowledge. I'm reminded of this interview: https://mobile.twitter.com/waltermasterson/status/1374029684242063368 --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 <cite>g0ldie posted [p:955855014] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>Dunning-Kruger. Simple as that. When you lack enough knowledge to be able to accurately recognize your lack of knowledge.</quote>I'm reminded of this interview: https://mobile.twitter.com/waltermasterson/status/1374029684242063368 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/09/21 3:13:27 AM #280:	DarkRoast posted... Spreading misinformation and unverified BS in an era where misinformation and unverified BS is literally costing lives doesn't make you a victim. You were wrong about lab leak, constantly misunderstand, quote twitter blog posts as your defense and your best argument against peer reviewed meta-analysis is this handwavy nonsense about how it's "bad' in a way that would invalidate FDA approved drugs. Most of your arguments are clearly just parroting people on twitter and it very much seems like while you accuse me of not being able to read the articles you never read any of them, let alone come up with an opinion that was not prepackaged for you. In a few months I will likely be validated and you will, like lab leak come up with some BS excuse to pretend like you were never wrong even though you obviously were. How about this, if you are so sure about your conclusions about ivermectin let's make a bet: I bet you 50 dollars that in the next year the WHO will recognize ivermectin as a valid treatment and/or prophylaxis for COVID19, it will be something phrased to the effect that "growing/new evidence has shown that ivermectin could be a reasonable treament/prophylaxis for COVID19, due to it's demonstrable safety the WHO no longer advises against it's use" or better. If they do indeed say this or better (a full throated endorsement) you have to pay me 50 dollars and say on CE "I, DarkRoast, was wrong to arrogantly dismiss joe40001 and ivermectin" If they don't say this or better, I will owe you 50 dollars and you can pick what I have to say publically. Once you let me know what that public statement will be, we can both lock in and then we can really see who is seeing the truth clearly and who is on the wrong side of Dunning-Kruger. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955897178] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DarkRoast posted... </cite> <quote>Spreading misinformation and unverified BS in an era where misinformation and unverified BS is literally costing lives doesn't make you a victim.</quote> You were wrong about lab leak, constantly misunderstand, quote twitter blog posts as your defense and your best argument against peer reviewed meta-analysis is this handwavy nonsense about how it's "bad' in a way that would invalidate FDA approved drugs. Most of your arguments are clearly just parroting people on twitter and it very much seems like while you accuse me of not being able to read the articles you never read any of them, let alone come up with an opinion that was not prepackaged for you. In a few months I will likely be validated and you will, like lab leak come up with some BS excuse to pretend like you were never wrong even though you obviously were. How about this, if you are so sure about your conclusions about ivermectin let's make a bet: I bet you 50 dollars that in the next year the WHO will recognize ivermectin as a valid treatment and/or prophylaxis for COVID19, it will be something phrased to the effect that "growing/new evidence has shown that ivermectin could be a reasonable treament/prophylaxis for COVID19, due to it's demonstrable safety the WHO no longer advises against it's use" or better. If they do indeed say this or better (a full throated endorsement) you have to pay me 50 dollars and say on CE "I, DarkRoast, was wrong to arrogantly dismiss joe40001 and ivermectin" If they don't say this or better, I will owe you 50 dollars and you can pick what I have to say publically. Once you let me know what that public statement will be, we can both lock in and then we can really see who is seeing the truth clearly and who is on the wrong side of Dunning-Kruger. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DarthAragorn 07/09/21 3:14:12 AM #282:	metallica846 posted... Has the lab leak been fully confirmed? no lol --- MSI MEG X570 Unify \| Ryzen 7 5800X \| 32GB DDR4-3600 \| RTX 3080 Samsung Odyssey G7 32" - 1440p, 240hz, GSync <cite>DarthAragorn posted [p:955897194] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>metallica846 posted... </cite> <quote>Has the lab leak been fully confirmed?</quote>no lol </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/09/21 3:19:42 AM #283:	metallica846 posted... Has the lab leak been fully confirmed? Despite a LOT of effort there has been no evidence found to support natural origin. There is a lot of evidence to support lab leak. I recommend NPR's fresh air interview: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1007539626/did-covid-19-leak-from-a-lab-a-reporter-investigates-and-finds-roadblocks Or the vanityfair article about it: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins I think at this point it is safe to say anybody who said it was "debunked" or "impossible" or (as DR phrased it) "As likely as JFK being assassinated by alien space lasers" was clearly wrong and out of line. I do and always have allowed for the possibility that new information will somehow point to natural origin, but I knew from very early on that banning discussion of it as "debunked misinformation" was incorrect and very inappropriate. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955897292] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>metallica846 posted... </cite> <quote>Has the lab leak been fully confirmed?</quote> Despite a LOT of effort there has been no evidence found to support natural origin. There is a lot of evidence to support lab leak. I recommend NPR's fresh air interview: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/17/1007539626/did-covid-19-leak-from-a-lab-a-reporter-investigates-and-finds-roadblocks Or the vanityfair article about it: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/06/the-lab-leak-theory-inside-the-fight-to-uncover-covid-19s-origins I think at this point it is safe to say anybody who said it was "debunked" or "impossible" or (as DR phrased it) "As likely as JFK being assassinated by alien space lasers" was clearly wrong and out of line. I do and always have allowed for the possibility that new information will somehow point to natural origin, but I knew from very early on that banning discussion of it as "debunked misinformation" was incorrect and very inappropriate. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
What_ 07/09/21 4:08:56 AM #284:	joe40001 posted... Yes, and? Its stupid and vaccine is better <cite>What_ posted [p:955897950] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>Yes, and?</quote>Its stupid and vaccine is better </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pinky0926 07/09/21 4:23:22 AM #285:	This is the funniest fucking topic I've read on CE in a long time --- CE's Resident Scotsman. https://imgur.com/ILz2ZbV <cite>pinky0926 posted [p:955898124] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>This is the funniest fucking topic I've read on CE in a long time </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/09/21 4:30:30 AM #286:	What_ posted... Its stupid and vaccine is better And for the people who don't currently have access to the vaccine or otherwise can't get it? We should shut down all other potential options because...? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955898209] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>What_ posted... </cite> <quote>Its stupid and vaccine is better</quote> And for the people who don't currently have access to the vaccine or otherwise can't get it? We should shut down all other potential options because...? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scar the 1 07/09/21 4:54:22 AM #287:	pinky0926 posted... This is the funniest fucking topic I've read on CE in a long time well brace yourself because it will literally never end --- Stop being so aggressively argumentative for no reason. - UnfairRepresent <cite>scar the 1 posted [p:955898464] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>pinky0926 posted... </cite> <quote>This is the funniest fucking topic I've read on CE in a long time</quote>well brace yourself because it will literally never end </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Frolex 07/09/21 6:17:46 PM #288:	joe40001 posted... Despite a LOT of effort there has been no evidence found to support natural origin. This is complete horseshit btw, for the two people left out there on the planet somewhere that might make the mistake of taking anything joenumbers says seriously. The research that's been done into the virus so far all almost universally points to it having a natural origin and none of it has demonstrated that Covid 19 was man-made or even bears the markings of human tampering. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118693/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7194821/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7898912/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8050477/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7969828/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7166400/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421007091 Literally the only actual piece of evidence in favor that of the lab leak that currently exits is that there is a lab in the same city the virus was first identified --- https://imgur.com/HOLHd4k https://imgur.com/six2WTN <cite>Frolex posted [p:955920180] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>Despite a LOT of effort there has been no evidence found to support natural origin.</quote> This is complete horseshit btw, for the two people left out there on the planet somewhere that might make the mistake of taking anything joenumbers says seriously. The research that's been done into the virus so far all almost universally points to it having a natural origin and none of it has demonstrated that Covid 19 was man-made or even bears the markings of human tampering. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7118693/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7194821/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7898912/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8050477/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7969828/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7166400/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867421007091 Literally the only actual piece of evidence in favor that of the lab leak that currently exits is that there is a lab in the same city the virus was first identified </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/10/21 4:59:32 AM #289:	So, um, DarkRoast. You got awful quiet there. When it meant you could mercilessly insult my intelligence you went HAM on being sure ivermectin couldn't possibly be effective, but ever since I brought up this bet you haven't said a peep. Kinda fishy. I mean if you are so sure you are right, why wouldn't you take the bet? It's free money and you get me to publically admit I'm wrong when what I say doesn't happen. Isn't that a guaranteed win if you are as sure as you claim? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955935247] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>So, um, DarkRoast. You got awful quiet there. When it meant you could mercilessly insult my intelligence you went HAM on being sure ivermectin couldn't possibly be effective, but ever since I brought up this bet you haven't said a peep. Kinda fishy. I mean if you are so sure you are right, why wouldn't you take the bet? It's free money and you get me to publically admit I'm wrong when what I say doesn't happen. Isn't that a guaranteed win if you are as sure as you claim? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 07/10/21 5:21:55 AM #290:	This is pathetic dude. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:955935492] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>This is pathetic dude. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnholyMudcrab 07/10/21 5:29:12 AM #291:	I want to get off Joenumbers's Wild Ride --- https://imgur.com/VeNBg https://imgur.com/gd5jC8q https://imgur.com/PKIy7 https://imgur.com/3p29JqP <cite>UnholyMudcrab posted [p:955935571] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>I want to get off Joenumbers's Wild Ride </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/10/21 5:34:55 AM #292:	COVxy posted... This is pathetic dude. Asking people to put some stakes behind their smug dismissiveness and insults? It's free money if they are right, and they have been acting unflinchingly like they are right. They made it quite explicit that they believe I am dumb for believing what I believe. If that's true, why not take the bet? --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955935626] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>COVxy posted... </cite> <quote>This is pathetic dude.</quote> Asking people to put some stakes behind their smug dismissiveness and insults? It's free money if they are right, and they have been acting unflinchingly like they are right. They made it quite explicit that they believe I am dumb for believing what I believe. If that's true, why not take the bet? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
COVxy 07/10/21 5:40:35 AM #293:	You should get really into counter-strike, or playing cards, or something. Idk, something that has winners and losers, that has collectibles that can be lorded over other people. --- =E[(x-E[x])(y-E[y])] <cite>COVxy posted [p:955935682] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>You should get really into counter-strike, or playing cards, or something. Idk, something that has winners and losers, that has collectibles that can be lorded over other people. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DezDroppedFreak 07/10/21 9:13:44 AM #294:	>says they argue in good faith >always devolves into trying to get someone to take a weird bet joe40001 posted... Kinda fishy. --- I feel like Ratatouille when I'm whipping that cheddar <cite>DezDroppedFreak posted [p:955938131] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>>says they argue in good faith >always devolves into trying to get someone to take a weird bet joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>Kinda fishy.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/10/21 9:19:23 AM #295:	DezDroppedFreak posted... >says they argue in good faith >always devolves into trying to get someone to take a weird bet I do argue in good faith. Asking people who have been insulting because they are apparently infinitely sure of their position to actually stake something on their position is reasonable. If the money is the dealbreaker we can make it just something where if they are right I have to publicly make a statement they decide and if I am right they have to say the thing I said earlier. I'm trying to move this conversation from random insults to concrete reality checked truth. If they weren't just recreationally insulting but actually stand by what they claim to believe then this is a gauranteed win for them, unless of course the thing they claim is impossible happens. But since they know it's impossible that shouldn't be a concern for them. If somebody is going to call others dumb and frankly act like an asshole, they should have to risk some part of their reputation on their factual claim with which they justify doing so, otherwise they are just a bully. So yeah, unless you aren't really sure of your claims, DR. The bet is on the table, free money and a free opportunity to get me to have to publicly admit I was wrong on CE. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955938227] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DezDroppedFreak posted... </cite> <quote>>says they argue in good faith >always devolves into trying to get someone to take a weird bet</quote> I do argue in good faith. Asking people who have been insulting because they are apparently infinitely sure of their position to actually stake something on their position is reasonable. If the money is the dealbreaker we can make it just something where if they are right I have to publicly make a statement they decide and if I am right they have to say the thing I said earlier. I'm trying to move this conversation from random insults to concrete reality checked truth. If they weren't just recreationally insulting but actually stand by what they claim to believe then this is a gauranteed win for them, unless of course the thing they claim is impossible happens. But since they know it's impossible that shouldn't be a concern for them. If somebody is going to call others dumb and frankly act like an asshole, they should have to risk some part of their reputation on their factual claim with which they justify doing so, otherwise they are just a bully. So yeah, unless you aren't really sure of your claims, DR. The bet is on the table, free money and a free opportunity to get me to have to publicly admit I was wrong on CE. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DezDroppedFreak 07/10/21 9:22:11 AM #296:	Falling back to making people take weird-ass bets is not arguing in good faith no matter how many paragraphs of garbage you type in fact your follow-up proves you literally only care about being right and not actually learning anything --- I feel like Ratatouille when I'm whipping that cheddar <cite>DezDroppedFreak posted [p:955938271] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>Falling back to making people take weird-ass bets is not arguing in good faith no matter how many paragraphs of garbage you type in fact your follow-up proves you literally only care about being right and not actually learning anything </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Omnislasher 07/10/21 9:24:19 AM #297:	welp regretting my two jabs now <cite>Omnislasher posted [p:955938296] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>welp regretting my two jabs now </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Frolex 07/10/21 9:25:38 AM #298:	joe40001 posted... they should have to risk some part of their reputation on their factual claim this isn't fair, you have no reputation to lose anyway --- https://imgur.com/HOLHd4k https://imgur.com/six2WTN <cite>Frolex posted [p:955938320] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>they should have to risk some part of their reputation on their factual claim</quote> this isn't fair, you have no reputation to lose anyway </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
joe40001 07/10/21 9:28:20 AM #299:	DezDroppedFreak posted... Falling back to making people take weird-ass bets is not arguing in good faith no matter how many paragraphs of garbage you type in fact your follow-up proves you literally only care about being right and not actually learning anything What is bad faith about what I said? What is bad faith about truth checking truth claims? And yeah, if two people are in a debate (particularly one with insults being thrown), I would hope the people involved care if they are saying something true or not. I do, apparently DR doesn't. --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori https://imgur.com/TheGsZ9 <cite>joe40001 posted [p:955938372] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>DezDroppedFreak posted... </cite> <quote>Falling back to making people take weird-ass bets is not arguing in good faith no matter how many paragraphs of garbage you type in fact your follow-up proves you literally only care about being right and not actually learning anything</quote> What is bad faith about what I said? What is bad faith about truth checking truth claims? And yeah, if two people are in a debate (particularly one with insults being thrown), I would hope the people involved care if they are saying something true or not. I do, apparently DR doesn't. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DezDroppedFreak 07/10/21 9:31:24 AM #300:	joe40001 posted... And yeah, if two people are in a debate (particularly one with insults being thrown), I would hope the people involved care if they are saying something true or not. I do, apparently DR doesn't. 1. this is fucking gamefaqs.gamespot.com not a debate 2. That is not what I meant and you know it Again, weird-ass bets are usually a sign of bad faith tactics. The last time you did this you were literally trying to set up a gotcha --- I feel like Ratatouille when I'm whipping that cheddar <cite>DezDroppedFreak posted [p:955938421] in Ivermectin... [t:79531697]...</cite> <quote>joe40001 posted... </cite> <quote>And yeah, if two people are in a debate (particularly one with insults being thrown), I would hope the people involved care if they are saying something true or not. I do, apparently DR doesn't.</quote> 1. this is fucking gamefaqs.gamespot.com not a debate 2. That is not what I meant and you know it Again, weird-ass bets are usually a sign of bad faith tactics. The last time you did this you were literally trying to set up a gotcha </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Ivermectin Peer Reviewed Meta-Analysis (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Ivermectin Peer Reviewed Meta-Analysis