Board 8 > Black Widow topic (marked spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

at least keep spoilers on the first page marked

Just saw it tonight and I enjoyed it! Some thoughts:

Taskmaster - I'm a little 50/50 on the portrayal. I loved Taskmaster's fight scenes, and it was really cool noticing the different stances, techniques, etc that they replicate from all the other heroes. In particular, the bridge fight vs Nat was great. On the other hand, I don't love Taskmaster as the silent, brooding villain. I get they made her silent to not spoil the reveal, but they took the entire personality out of the character.

General - This movie had some of the best action setpieces of the entire series. Bridge fight, prison escape, and mid-air fight were all a blast, even though everything is so ridiculously improbably it's almost funny. Is this the highest body count (caused by a protagonist) in the entire MCU? It must be close, given that Black Widow and Yelena almost single-handedly caused the deaths of every single person in the prison AND everyone that wasn't a black widow in the Red Room.

---

Saw it yday, really liked it but yeah i was surprised at how much killing was happening. I figured the prisoners made it inside and didn't necessarily die tho maybe I'm forgetting

Yelena was great red guardian was great, shame Rachel Weisz was relatively underused but she's always good

Probably had the best action since Winter Soldier too. The midair thing did strain my suspension of disbelief even in a Marvel movie but it was still great fun


---

XIII_rocks posted...

Probably had the best action since Winter Soldier too. The midair thing did strain my suspension of disbelief even in a Marvel movie but it was still great fun

My suspension of disbelief was gone when BW

---

oh yeah and walking away from her car blowing up twice, that too

---

I go see in like 5 hours

---

Johnbobb posted...

My suspension of disbelief was gone when BW

Don't know why it cut off but

when she fell and completely ragdolled down several flights outside the Yelena's building and still landed on her feet

---

Oh and a word for the opening credits. Genuinely terrible. The most tryhard, interminably bad 5 minutes of...maybe any MCU content I've watched. I was worried about the rest of the movie after that, but it quickly got good.

---

Florence Pugh continues to be my favorite new actor of the last few years. Even in this rather average MCU film, she's great. I hope this helps launch her into the mainstream (though also hope she keeps doing indie films that can probably make better use of her talents).

---

Just saw it, was very mediocre.

I feel like Taskmaster was a bit underused. I only noticed Captain America and Hawkeye fighting styles. There was also the Black Panther "claws" showing off but I don't feel like I saw some actually fighting style? maybe I just missed it because it was a generic battle style I dunno.
They could have used her use Spiderman, Thor and Hulk fighting styles as well...


---

6/10

Red Guardian and Pugh were the best part. Hate what they did with Taskmaster. I was expecting to hear a whistle back in the end credits, left disappointed.

---

I enjoyed it. Shouldn't need to be said at this point but definitely make sure you stay for the post-credits scene. Suddenly extremely excited for the Hawkeye Disney+ show this year.

---

With Taskmaster

I'm just happy they didn't kill her off. Also I admittedly like the change to being a relentless killer. I still like Tony Masters, but he's a bit of a bitch in the comics, glad we have this badass version too.

---

Taskmaster speculation that everyone who knows marvel is guessing

They might want to keep her around for a potential Thunderbolts movie or Disney plus series

Nanis23 posted...

Just saw it, was very mediocre.

I feel like Taskmaster was a bit underused. I only noticed Captain America and Hawkeye fighting styles. There was also the Black Panther "claws" showing off but I don't feel like I saw some actually fighting style? maybe I just missed it because it was a generic battle style I dunno.
They could have used her use Spiderman, Thor and Hulk fighting styles as well...

There actually was Spider-Man! It was very brief though. On the bridge fight she swings on a hanging cable in a direct Spider-Man pose. Didn't see Thor or Hulk, but noticed Winter Soldier techniques, as well as (I think) Iron Man.

---

BetrayedTangy posted...

With Taskmaster

I'm just happy they didn't kill her off. Also I admittedly like the change to being a relentless killer. I still like Tony Masters, but he's a bit of a bitch in the comics, glad we have this badass version too.

I'm down with relentless killer Taskmaster, just not silent and brooding.

I'm also glad she's not killed off though, because I'd love to see more from the character

---

There was very clearly some Winter Soldier stuff during the fight with Red Guardian. The way Taskmaster used the knife particularly.

---

i fell asleep during this movie film

Taskmaster has been my favorite Marvel character since 2008 and they did my boy dirty. Don't even mind the gender swap, Tasky is just woefully underutilized and had one whole spoken line of dialogue. Terrible.

---

Nanis23 posted...

Just saw it, was very mediocre.

I feel like Taskmaster was a bit underused. I only noticed Captain America and Hawkeye fighting styles. There was also the Black Panther "claws" showing off but I don't feel like I saw some actually fighting style? maybe I just missed it because it was a generic battle style I dunno.
They could have used her use Spiderman, Thor and Hulk fighting styles as well...

There was one scene on the Red Room, I believe, where Taskmaster jumps and backflips off of Black Widow's chest. When I saw it I yelled out "Spider-Man"!

---

ZenOfThunder posted...

i fell asleep during this movie film

Taskmaster has been my favorite Marvel character since 2008 and they did my boy dirty. Don't even mind the gender swap, Tasky is just woefully underutilized and had one whole spoken line of dialogue. Terrible.

I also absolutely adore Taskmaster. I haven't seen the movie yet, but this has all deflated my interest in it. I just don't understand the choice here, especially after everyone has been big on literally every Taskmaster appearance in other media where he gets to have a personality. This is just such a bizarre choice.

---

Taskmaster seemed like a Winter Soldier copycat, literally.

---

Glad I had no prior relationship with Taskmaster to care about how the character was portrayed. I can see why you'd be annoyed about that.

---

One positive about the movie though, it had a lot of funny moments that had me cracking up.

---

XIII_rocks posted...

Oh and a word for the opening credits. Genuinely terrible. The most tryhard, interminably bad 5 minutes of...maybe any MCU content I've watched. I was worried about the rest of the movie after that, but it quickly got good.

oh my god I kind of forgot about that

why the fuck did they use a sad dramatic cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit?!??

---

beated

... honestly gotta be one of my least favourite movies of the MCU (not that I have an active ranking of them yet)

By the time the final sequences of the film came around I was just laughing, but not in a good way. Suspension of belief couldn't cover just how ridiculous that air fight was for me - not that it was even long. I've enjoyed Taskmaster's earlier fights where it was fun recognizing the copied movesets, but by the end she really feels insignificant. To be fair we were laughing even before the air fight, particularly from all the cheesy running-in-front-of-explosion clips, and pretending Yelena had to take down the air transport with a sacrifice fake-out was just silly.

Agreed on Taskmaster feeling like doing Winter Soldier again but much... less. Can't deny I was also getting strong Wolverine Origins Deadpool vibes which I mean well woof... checking twitter now, fun to see I'm definitely not the first to suggest this.

I think it started out alright (after the opening credits scene that is) but around getting the "family" back together I got bored for far too long and yeah I already said how my peace with the climax.

Johnbobb posted...

oh my god I kind of forgot about that

why the fuck did they use a sad dramatic cover of Smells Like Teen Spirit?!??

lmao Nirvana was a big part of my upbringing with my sister and during the opening she was just like oh no please don't be doing this

---

GuessMyUserName posted...

Agreed on Taskmaster feeling like doing Winter Soldier again but much... less. Can't deny I was also getting strong Wolverine Origins Deadpool vibes which I mean well woof... checking twitter now, fun to see I'm definitely not the first to suggest this.

You'd think they'd have learned not to take a character known for their strong personality and make them silent! It literally never works!

---

The irony of making me wish we got to see Fox's take on Taskmaster, but hey that was for Deadpool, a movie that directly acknowledged how much they fucked up his first appearance.

---

Imagine we got to see Tony Masters palling it up in a future Deadpool movie. How much fun that would have been for their friendship to play out. We could have had Taskmaster in a future Thunderbolts or something.

Instead we get... generic silent husk of a person. At least in Wolverine Origins, Ryan Reynolds got to be Wade Wilson for a while, and that part was fun! Like even if they wanted to gender bend him and make him Tanya Masters or something, that even could have been fun if you maintained the characters personality. Like there is so much that could have been done with the Taskmaster character. There are so many other generic villains who could fit this generic silent villain spot they could have used too, which makes it even more confusing. It really feels like they wanted to drum up interest for actual fans of the Taskmaster character in name only, rather than do something fans of the character would like.

I dunno. I feel like I expect more from the MCU by now than to do something like this. It's disappointing.

---

Definitely wasted the character, throwing away any personality just to serve a shoddy helmet reveal for a "twist" that's already rather played out. I've seen people satisfied with it because of Antonia linking back to Natasha personally which I understand, but I don't think Antonia was sufficiently built up on her own right, just as a prop for the development of other characters. She was a pawn to Natasha just as she became a pawn as Taskmaster so the whole reveal left very little impact on me as a viewer and it very much was not worth the cost of making her a mindless robo-slave.

More subjective on this part but I honestly don't like the Antonia reveal because it feels like giving Natasha a shot at redemption for her darkest sin. Like I said, Taskmaster just feels like a prop for others and not his own character.

---

im amazed to see such warm reception to this, it was more forgettable to me than Ant-Man 2. It's not bad like Thor 2 or anything but it's amazing how people are giving this thing 8/10 and up

---

People complain about the mid-air fight scene but I groaned more at the car exploding and the wreck sliding down the subway stairs. That was a real ORLY moment for me.

Aside from that it was fine. Nothing too bad, but nothing extremely memorable either. Loved the dinner scene.

---

ZenOfThunder posted...

im amazed to see such warm reception to this, it was more forgettable to me than Ant-Man 2. It's not bad like Thor 2 or anything but it's amazing how people are giving this thing 8/10 and up

that's the thing with the lesser MCU movies, there's always some people who love them. even the dark world has its fans!

---

Johnbobb posted...

Don't know why it cut off but

when she fell and completely ragdolled down several flights outside the Yelena's building and still landed on her feet

Comic spoliers? One thing I've disliked about the movies is that they never made it clear that the program that created Black Widow was a Super Soldier program. In the comics she can lift like 800 lbs and outrun Usain Bolt, but I guess they only wanted one Super Soldier Avenger.

---

ChichiriMuyo posted...

Comic spoliers? One thing I've disliked about the movies is that they never made it clear that the program that created Black Widow was a Super Soldier program. In the comics she can lift like 800 lbs and outrun Usain Bolt, but I guess they only wanted one Super Soldier Avenger.

That's odd, particularly given that they directly talk about how Red Guardian was one of the first people to receive the super soldier serum

---

I thought it was enjoyable enough. Yeah some silly moments of improbable things, but that's not gonna bother me much. I also have no prior knowledge of Taskmaster, so I don't experience any disappointment there either. I didn't even realize I was supposed to be noticing them using other heroes' fighting styles, lol. But also yeah they weren't anything too interesting either, just kinda there to have some fight scenes. The family interactions were the best part of the movie, and I look forward to seeing Yelena in Hawkeye.

I know they've said from the beginning that Disney+ shows are fully part of the MCU, and that has been obvious with the first two shows setting up developments and introducing characters for future movies, but I'm still surprised that the post-credits scene of the first Phase 4 movie directly leads into a Disney+ series instead of a future movie development. They really are all in on that.

---

Also I'm glad I watched the Legends recap episode, because I do not recall most small details of the older movies and would have absolutely missed the "thank you for your cooperation" callback.

---

I just hope this results in Yelena being the new Black Widow going forward. She was the best part of the movie.

---

Leonhart4 posted...

I just hope this results in Yelena being the new Black Widow going forward. She was the best part of the movie.

Yeah with the movie coming out this late from when it occurred in the timeline, this seems to be the main outcome from it for the universe going forward. Maybe.

---

Overall I felt the movie was pretty average. It felt really dark and brutal at times. But the resolution where Nat's "family" all have a change of heart and come together and the big exploding final act where everything works out fine just felt really dull and simplistic. Like most Marvel movies, it was entertaining, but nothing really stood out to me.

Gotta chime in with the Taskmaster disappointment as well. Just in general the fact that she's just another brainwashed soldier is really uninteresting. Someone brought up the Winter Soldier, and it really does feel like a rehash of that. It's a shame because I did like the fight sequences with her. Seeing the subtle moves of the Avenger's fighting style was cool, in addition to the more broad things like using a Shield, Bow, and Panther Claws.

I kind of agree a little with the suspension of belief thing, since Black Widow is supposed to be a bit more of a grounded hero. I don't mind the things like her fighting while skydiving and stuff, or the over-the-top acrobatics, but she walks away from like two incredibly horrific car crashes in the span of like five minutes without any noticeable issues whatsoever. In particular the scene where she falls like 40 feet from a tower and collides with half a dozen things on the way down and gets up feeling only mildly winded was stunningly cartoonish. I was actually expecting the movie's big reveal to be that she was injected with some variant of the supersoldier serum to explain it but... nope.

Natasha gaining a family in this movie really throws the whole thing about her sacrificing herself in Endgame for a loop. Wasn't the whole point being that it should have been her over Clint because she was alone? It's not really a "plothole" since you can justify it in so many ways, but it's still really unusual in hindsight.

Also... Dreykov mentions he uses Black Widows to control world leaders, and there's a scene where he's shown to control Bill Clinton... are they implying Hillary Clinton is a Black Widow?

---

I sort of thought that the end credits scene could be a teaser for the plot of Captain America 4 instead of Hawkeye but maybe I'm way off base, they just seem like natural supporting characters for that film and julia louis-dreyfus being in that and in TFATWS

No, but Chelsea might be

---

Paratroopa1 posted...

I sort of thought that the end credits scene could be a teaser for the plot of Captain America 4 instead of Hawkeye but maybe I'm way off base, they just seem like natural supporting characters for that film and julia louis-dreyfus being in that and in TFATWS

But she literally showed Yelena a picture of Hawkeye.

Like at best it could be ambiguous and tie into both Hawkeye and a future movie, but it definitely still ties into Hawkeye.

---

Monika Lewinsky

There's still a chance that they make Antonia a wisecracking smartass now that she's free from her father's control. It would be your bog standard humor-as-a-coping-mechanism narrative device, but hey, beats brooding

---

Pros
+ Good action scenes
+ Florence Pugh
+ Red Guardian
+ Post credits scene

Cons
- They fucking ruined Taskmaster
- Weak way to send off Scarlett
- This movie should've been released anytime between Civil War and Endgame. The post credits scene could have just been on an episode on Disney+

6/10

---

I really liked this movie, but I think that has more to do with my lowered expectations for it and generally not caring for Black Widow much at all.

7/10 movie elevated to 8 thanks to its ridiculous action scenes and florence pugh

---

I enjoyed it.
I get being annoyed with the Taskmaster portrayal (especially if you go in an existing TS fan), but this is MCU so I'm sure she will appear across several movies and D+ shows where she will develop an actual character now that she's not brainwashed. Loved all of her fight scenes.

Also really expected a whistle back at the end, but the Hawkeye setup seems just as good.

---

Johnbobb posted...

That's odd, particularly given that they directly talk about how Red Guardian was one of the first people to receive the super soldier serum

I mean Red Guardian is significantly older than her, so she could have easily been given the formula once she was older... but yeah, they never said she did, and it feels like they should have said all the Widows got a version of the formula at some point in this movie.

---

There was a lot to complain about with Black Widow, and Taskmaster is not nearly the top of the list.

It's a brand new character. That gives Marvel a lot of latitude for the future, including introducing the comics-faithful Taskmaster later on down the line when they need another generation of characters. Be happy they didn't waste Taskmaster as the lackey to what I would say is the single least-interesting Marvel Cinematic main villain in the entire 20+ film run thus far.

---