Poll of the Day > diablo 3 hardcore mode isn't even fucking hard

(+) Yeah! (+)

i'm even playing on expert.

i rarely even take damage, nothing has been a challenge.

i'm halfway through act 2 and i'm level 47.

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Well yeah you're only playing on expert pop it up to torment V

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Eugh Xcom on Iron Man isn't even hard and I'm only playing on easy

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Shin Megami Tensei Nocture isn't even that hard, just use the walkthrough!

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CinderLock posted...

Well yeah you're only playing on expert pop it up to torment V

This, expert is a joke

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Its expert and lower levels of torment that are the jokes.

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Hardcore mode is never any harder than normal. The stakes are just higher.

That said, I can't imagine enjoying hardcore in D3. The game pretty quickly turns into rocket tag as you move up into the higher difficulties. Even with a complete suite of defensive abilities and whatnot, it's only a matter of time before you get instagibbed by something off-screen. That's annoying enough on normal, but to have a whole hardcore character ended that way just doesn't seem fun.

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Get to Torment 8+ and enjoy being one shot while you also one shot things because for some reason Blizzard decided you should get armors that increase damage by 60,000%.

Gotta love that power creep.

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adjl posted...

Gotta love that power creep.

You mean Bobby Kotick?

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No, that's a powerful creep. Subtle difference.

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give it a blue pill then
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it's a new game you can only go up to expert

also I'm on act 3 now at level 60. I literally just stood in one spot for the Belial fight, it was not even dangerous

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helIy posted...

it's a new game you can only go up to expert

Unfacts. You can get to torment, I did it on my very first playthrough.

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torment is literally locked until you get a character to level 70.

given that it's a new game, there is no level 70 character yet.

thus, only expert is available.

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helIy posted...

torment is literally locked until you get a character to level 70.

given that it's a new game, there is no level 70 character yet.

thus, only expert is available.

This is right, on subsequent playtrhoughs you can choose difficulty earlier.

helIy posted...

i'm even playing on expert.

i rarely even take damage, nothing has been a challenge.

i'm halfway through act 2 and i'm level 47.

I assume youre playing the campaign? It sucks. Its very very bad. Dont play it. Just watch a YouTube video if you care about the plot. Actually I think you might have to play through it once to unlock the other modes and if that is the case then I am sorry.

Since they added bounties and rifts I havent once gone back to play the campaign. Its really made me realize how awful it is.

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Mead posted...

I assume youre playing the campaign? It sucks. Its very very bad. Dont play it. Just watch a YouTube video if you care about the plot. Actually I think you might have to play through it once to unlock the other modes and if that is the case then I am sorry.

Since they added bounties and rifts I havent once gone back to play the campaign. Its really made me realize how awful it is.

Yeah you have to to get rifts, not sure if you need to to play seasons though.

You have to play the campaign once to unlock adventure mode, but I believe it remains unlocked after that, even in new seasons. It's still a decent idea to rush to Leoric for his crown when starting a new season (to double the exp gain from Rubies), but that's about it.

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Wait, so maybe there is a way to actually enjoy D3? I always played thorugh the INCREDIBLY BORING campaign with a new character. I finished it with the paladin and like 1 other char, never finished it with the necromancer though and a bunch of others (paladin and Shaman I think it was).

I may reload it and see if I can just avoid the campaign with the others.

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wolfy42 posted...

Wait, so maybe there is a way to actually enjoy D3? I always played thorugh the INCREDIBLY BORING campaign with a new character. I finished it with the paladin and like 1 other char, never finished it with the necromancer though and a bunch of others (paladin and Shaman I think it was).

I may reload it and see if I can just avoid the campaign with the others.

Sou ds like you completely missed most of the games meatiest content.

wolfy42 posted...

Wait, so maybe there is a way to actually enjoy D3? I always played thorugh the INCREDIBLY BORING campaign with a new character. I finished it with the paladin and like 1 other char, never finished it with the necromancer though and a bunch of others (paladin and Shaman I think it was).

I may reload it and see if I can just avoid the campaign with the others.

Yeah, you can level entirely in Adventure mode, primarily via rifts. With a level 25 Gem of Ease (+2500% exp, allows the level 70 weapon it's in to be used at any level), you can get a new character to 70 in like 4 rifts, which takes like half an hour at most. You won't have that on your first character in a given season, but it's still pretty quick to level, and doesn't involve slogging through the campaign.

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adjl posted...

Yeah, you can level entirely in Adventure mode, primarily via rifts. With a level 25 Gem of Ease (+2500% exp, allows the level 70 weapon it's in to be used at any level), you can get a new character to 70 in like 4 rifts, which takes like half an hour at most. You won't have that on your first character in a given season, but it's still pretty quick to level, and doesn't involve slogging through the campaign.

Oh, is it per season? Maybe I was FORCED to play through the campaign since I would always come back in a different season (probably). I felt like I didn't have any other options besides the campaign till I finished the game.

I did with the paladin (not the shaman as it was back when the game launched that I played the shaman). I played end game some with the paladin back when that launched/was added. Things may have changed since then again though.

When Necro was added I got it, but I couldn't get through the campaign with it, was too freaking boring, so I just gave up.

May give it another try since I'm pretty bored with Path of Exile this season.

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I don't think you have to play the campaign in each new season. Just once per copy of the game.

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i like the campaign

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wolfy42 posted...

Oh, is it per season? Maybe I was FORCED to play through the campaign since I would always come back in a different season (probably). I felt like I didn't have any other options besides the campaign till I finished the game.

I did with the paladin (not the shaman as it was back when the game launched that I played the shaman). I played end game some with the paladin back when that launched/was added. Things may have changed since then again though.

When Necro was added I got it, but I couldn't get through the campaign with it, was too freaking boring, so I just gave up.

May give it another try since I'm pretty bored with Path of Exile this season.

No you don't have to play it every season, you were just dumb and missed it. Again once the campaign is completed once, you never have to touch it again seasonal charcter or not.

Seasonal charcters regardless are marked by a leaf next to thier name.

I liked playing Diablo III for a bit, but I was kind of like...this game is just clicking.

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I want some modders to take Diablo 2 and make it into a roguelite

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Mead posted...

I want some modders to take Diablo 2 and make it into a roguelite

Uh

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Zareth posted...

Uh

did someone already do that?

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Diablo 2 hardcore IS a roguelite

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Zareth posted...

Diablo 2 hardcore IS a roguelite

in some ways

i would want more unlockables and an overarching upgrade system

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Anything more than a shared stash would pretty dramatically alter the way the game works. If nothing else, it's really too long to be a proper rogueli(k/t)e, so you'd need to see quite a bit of the game cut out.

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adjl posted...

Anything more than a shared stash would pretty dramatically alter the way the game works. If nothing else, it's really too long to be a proper rogueli(k/t)e, so you'd need to see quite a bit of the game cut out.

Honestly a game doesn't need to be short to be a roguelite, and a good one could be made that would take years to finish.

Take D2 LOD as an example.

First, every character would be made hardcore, next you actually expand the length of the game, max level, # of skills, synergies etc.

Then you add points that you get per play through for finishing certain objectives (Beating bosses etc), higher the objective, more points.

Those points unlock things in town, abilities for characters etc.

You also eventually can unlock the ability to reincarnate. This resets a character back to level 1, as any class, but with advantages gained from previous reincarnations (they stack).

Each playthrough if you don't die (which is not very likely initially without bonuses etc, or pretty much impossible even) would take 20-30 hours at least.

Each class can be reincarnated multiple times (say 5 total).

Bonuses are something like 10% bonus to max health per barbarian reincarnation, 10% max mana per sorceress reincarnation, 10% more damage per assassin reincarnation etc.

Finally you end up with an over all bonus if you reincarnate everything at least once (+30 to all stats for instance).

With Barb/amazon/druid/assassin/sorc/paladin/monk/necro/shaman/Demon Hunter
you would have 10 reincarnations base to get the (all reincarnation bonus), at 20-30 hours min per, would be 200-300 total hours just for that. Then to actually get all to the max 5 reincarnation (Which you get another full char boost for) would take 5x that, or 1000-1500 hours.

Keep in pvp like before, but chars don't get erased for loosing a pvp mach and you have insane amounts of replayability, especially if you make the top end content extremely dangerous even for high end chars (so you could still die even capped out).

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wolfy42 posted...

Honestly a game doesn't need to be short to be a roguelite, and a good one could be made that would take years to finish.

It kinda does. The point of roguelites in particular (that is, roguelikes with significant meta-progression) is that you have a steady sense of progression with each attempt. If done right, that drive to progress sucks the player right back in after every run, since there's always the knowledge that something new and interesting can be unlocked by playing another round. If an attempt takes several hours, though, it's a lot harder to create that sense. The reward is very distantly separated from the decision to start a run, so it's a lot harder to harness that motivation.

Fundamentally, rogueli(k/t)es are also built around the assumption that the player will fail initially. That's fine with shorter runs, especially when there's some manner of meta-progression to make that failure feel worthwhile, but investing 20 hours into something that's all but guaranteed to end in failure is pretty disheartening. That's even more true when that 20-hour failure isn't because you've failed as a player, it's because you haven't had enough other 20-hour failures to level up your stats enough for success to be reasonably achievable (and if you're investing 20 hours into each upgrade, those boosts are going to have to be large enough for that to be the case in order to feel worthwhile).

Perhaps I'm just biased, since I've never really seen much appeal in playing hardcore in ARPG's (it always just seems to promote slower, more defensive play, which generally isn't all that interesting, and after investing that much time into designing a character, I like to keep them around), but the idea of trying to stick a meta-progression system on top of a game that takes tens of hours per clear just seems like padding for padding's sake, not an actual interesting way to add replayability.

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adjl posted...

Anything more than a shared stash would pretty dramatically alter the way the game works. If nothing else, it's really too long to be a proper rogueli(k/t)e, so you'd need to see quite a bit of the game cut out.

yeah youd have to totally restructure the game

how can we get cracking on this

how does one code

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I believe you start by mashing keys really fast.

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I wonder if I can do it from a smartphone

using the cloud

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Dude my DH does somewhere in the billions to trillions. Nothing in that game is hard. I just spin in circles to save randoms and then dip.

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Mead posted...

I wonder if I can do it from a smartphone

using the cloud

Technically, yes...

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i died at level 56 because i got too cavalier and just stood inside three exploding elites death explosions

but i save scummed and it's all good

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Yeah some uniques have some insane ability combos

late game the multi shot lightning enchanted enemies can mess you up so quick if you are melee

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