Board 8 > Rank the Tracks Week 24: Ben Folds Five (+ Hot Fuss results)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Previous results can be seen here:
https://board8.fandom.com/wiki/Rank_the_Tracks

The rules:
1. Listen to the album in full
2. Rank every track on the album
3. For the results, there will be a curve at the top of each list; two additional points between #1 and #2, and one additional point for the next two ranks. This way, the songs that really stick out to someone get an edge that is not immediately negated by someone else putting it lower. In the case of Demon Days, someone's 15th track will get 1 point, 14th 2 points, 4th 12 points, 3rd 14 points, 2nd 16 points, and 1st 19 points
4. If you want to include comments for individual songs, I will compile them in the results
5. The results will be posted at the beginning of the next topic
6. The deadline to vote is Sunday, August 22 at 8:00 AM EST - though if you are for whatever reason listening to the album around that time, just say so in the topic and I can delay a bit
7. You can sign up to be added to a user cycle for after we finish the queue; once we get through the last planned album, the next person on the list will choose 3 albums which the other users will vote on for the next topic.
7a. To ensure people are being given an actual choice, the three nominated albums must be by different artists. You can otherwise stick to a similar sound or era.
7b. The tiebreaker for these polls will be whichever is listed first in the poll options - make sure to deliver the results in order of your own preference (which will hopefully have the added benefit of influencing people toward your first choice if they can't decide).
7c. The order of the user cycle will be randomly determined, but users will first be sorted into tiers by how many of their nominations have been covered during the early nominations period.

Ben Folds Five' self-titled track list:
1. Jackson Cannery
2. Philosophy
3. Julianne
4. Where's Summer B.?
5. Alice Childress
6. Underground
7. Sports & Wine
8. Uncle Walter
9. Best Imitation of Myself
10. Video
11. The Last Polka
12. Boxing

Schedule:
8/22: Air - Moon Safari (ZaziGuado)
8/29: The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced (Johnbobb)
9/5: Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine (Steiner)
9/12: The Knife - Silent Shout (CasanovaZelos)
9/19: Billy Joel - The Stranger (Seanchan)
9/26: Spice Girls - Spice (SpikeSetsFire)
10/3: Iron Maiden - Powerslave (TheArkOfTurus)
10/10: Rancid - ...And Out Come the Wolves (Snake5555555555)
10/17: OutKast - Aquemini (Giggsalot)
10/24: Of Monsters and Men - My Head Is an Animal (Jesse_Custer)
10/31: Taylor Swift - Speak Now (Snake5555555555)
11/7: The Avalanches - Since I Left You (SpikeSetsFire)
11/14: Moby - Play (SpikeSetsFire)
11/21: Steely Dan - Can't Buy a Thrill (Seginustemple)

User Cycle sign-ups:
11/28: MetalmindStats
12/5: TheArkOfTurus
12/12: Snake5555555555
12/19: Jesse_Custer
12/26: ZaziGuado
1/2: SpikeSetsFire
1/9: Johnbobb
1/16: VeryInsane
1/23: CasanovaZelos
1/30: Seanchan
2/6: Giggsalot
2/13: RyoCaliente
2/20: darkx
2/27: neonreaper
3/6: Great_Paul

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The Killers - Hot Fuss results

The participants sorted by deviation from final results:
CasanovaZelos (16)
ZaziGuado (16)
Jesse_Custer (18)
Snake5555555555 (22)
MarkS222222222222222 (22)
VeryInsane (22)
MetalmindStats (24)
ChichiriMuyo (28)
Seanchan (28)
SpikeSetsFire (30)
HBJDubs (30)
Johnbobb (36)
Raetsel_Lapin (36)

General Album Comments

CasanovaZelos: The evolving critical reception of Hot Fuss is among the most striking I know - it went from a measly 66 average on Metacritic to the all-time top 1,000 on Acclaimed Music, meaning critics greatly reconsidered its significance. For me, I think the earlier evaluation is closer to the mark. This is the definitive front-loaded album, 5 strong songs followed by a whole bunch of okay. It's not that the back half is bad, but the energy seriously drops off and never recovers - if the singles had been mixed in throughout, maybe it could hold my attention. This is the rare album that is less than the sum of its parts - but three of those parts are at least all-time greats.

ZaziGuado: My experience with The Killers is basically the singles off their first three albums. The Killers put out a good single...And then we enter the later portion of the album and things get less interesting because The Killers frontloaded the album with all the singles that I've heard over the last 15 years and I don't feel like talking about the rest of the album with nothing to look forward to.

Seanchan: Turns out, I'd not heard Change Your Mind before! Lets be totally honest, I got a lot of music during that time early/mid 00s time from...clandestine...sources, and apparently it was labeled as Change Your Mind but was actually Glamorous Indie Rock & Roll. Never knew! Change Your Mind is a pretty forgettable track though, so seems like I got the better end.

I nominated Hot Fuss because, like Is This It, it's considered a "classic" of the era, so I thought it was the right album for this. It's not my favorite Killers album, that honor probably goes to Day & Age (which I think goes against the grain of most people's opinions). Been a while since I listened to Sam's Town so that one might be better as well. Battle Born is the last Killers album I've heard but I could never get into it; by that point my musical tastes had shifted.

If nothing else, Mr Brightside, and to a lesser extent, Somebody Told Me, will likely stand the test of time.

ChichiriMuyo: Once upon a time I felt like this was a great album. It certainly has some great singles, and at the time it felt like a breath of fresh air compared to what was getting radio play on rock stations at the time. The biggest problem I have with the album now though is that with nearly every song other than "Somebody Told Me" and Mr. Brightside" I can't help but be reminded of another song that came before them, from bands that had even better songs than the ones that The Killers are aping. The early 2000s absolutely needed The Killers and the other bands that brought a sea change to rock, but this album didn't really move the genre forward.

Snake5555555555: So... I kind of like this album I think? Don't get me wrong, the singles on here are insanely good, with some all time classics of the entire rock genre. "All These Things That I've Done" is my favorite Killers song, with the "I've Got Soul" refrain being one of the most fun things to sing along with ever. "Mr. Brightside" is instantly catchy and teeters on that right blend of emotion where the band rocks their heart out in cathartic joy but you also catch the whispers of sadness, fear, and broken-heartedness throughout Flowers' immaculate, melodramatic, almost operatic vocal performance. Where the album truly falters is in its non-single tracks; they are serviceable, and actually stand out each in their unique way, but there's nothing particularly interesting I latch on to and want to listen to again and again, and that's a huge knock against it for me. Bouncing variously between a blend of alt. rock, new wave, and post-punk, I highly respect the album's sonic cohesion but I think the lyrics and actual instrumentation on the non-singles lacks significant depth and meaning. At its worst, in songs like "Everything Will Be Alright" & "Andy, You're a Star", The Killers are downright yawn-worthy.

I like The Killers; I wouldn't consider them a fave band by any stretch, but at the same time, they've definitely released some songs I would call favorites. I think they show marked improvement after Hot Fuss, and I enjoy them most when they lean more into heartland rock which fits them like a glove. Also, their Christmas songs are the fuckin' best.

MetalmindStats: Clubby yet grandiose, with some sinister undercurrents to its soundscapes, something about Hot Fuss makes it seem like some of the most generic modern alt-rock possible (from perhaps the most generically named rock band around), not that it quite feels fair of me to say so with my lacking perspective. I found the result rather trying and tiring the first time through, while the second listen still had me convinced that albums like Hot Fuss are why I don't participate in this series nearly as often as I should. Of course, and typically for me with music, familiarity bred affection, hence why my top spot was locked before I started even as I grew ambivalent about said song's lyrics (well, that and the fact that I typically don't consume music as part of entire albums in order). Ultimately, while I won't likely return to most of these songs, I'd probably at least consider Hot Fuss better than a wash three times through without the almost painfully pretentious bonus track to cap it.

Seanchan: I like this album quite a bit. Not love, but it's very solid. At a certain point I'm not sure if that's just familiarity from having heard it so many times but I listened to this 4 more times this week and re-enjoyed it every time. There's quite a few bands from back in my high school and college days that I, for one reason or another, never want to hear again. The Killers are not one of those.

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Hot Fuss track ranking

12. Glamorous Indie Rock & Roll (Track #8 (UK/Australia))
Score: 47 (Average Rank: 9.38/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Seanchan (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, MetalmindStats (#12)

11. Everything Will Be Alright (Track #11)
Score: 48 (Average Rank: 9.46/12)
Biggest Fan(s): MetalmindStats (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): CasanovaZelos, Jesse_Custer, Snake5555555555 (#12)

10. Believe Me Natalie (Track #9)
Score: 50 (Average Rank: 9.15/12)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo, Raetsel_Lapin (#5)
Biggest Detractor(s): ZaziGuado, MarkS222222222222222, Seanchan, VeryInsane (#12)

9. Change Your Mind (Track #8)
Score: 57 (Average Rank: 8.62/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, VeryInsane (#6)
Biggest Detractor(s): SpikeSetsFire (#12)

8. Andy, You're a Star (Track #6)
Score: 63 (Average Rank: 8.46/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Johnbobb, SpikeSetsFire (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo, HBJDubs (#12)

7. On Top (Track #7)
Score: 89 (Average Rank: 6.31/12)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo, SpikeSetsFire (#3)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#11)

6. Midnight Show (Track #10)
Score: 92 (Average Rank: 6.23/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#2)
Biggest Detractor(s): Johnbobb (#12)

5. Smile Like You Mean It (Track #3)
Score: 105 (Average Rank: 5.38/12)
Biggest Fan(s): MarkS222222222222222 (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): ChichiriMuyo (#10)

ZaziGuado: For some reason, and I don't know why, I always get this song and Read My Mind (the superior song imo) mixed up in my mind. I also hated this song for whatever reason the first time I heard it. Something about his droning voice I think. I must not have picked up the slick synth line because that's what makes the song.

4. Jenny Was a Friend of Mine (Track #1)
Score: 120 (Average Rank: 4.46/12)
Biggest Fan(s): Raetsel_Lapin, HBJDubs (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Seanchan (#10)

ZaziGuado: First songs on the first album of a band's discography hold a certain significance. The Killers did pretty good with this one. I really love the combination of the synth and funky bass pluck.

3. All These Things That I've Done (Track #5)
Score: 136 (Average Rank: 4.23/12)
Biggest Fan(s): ZaziGuado, Johnbobb, Snake5555555555, VeryInsane (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin, HBJDubs (#10)

ZaziGuado: Easily my favorite song on this album. The breakdown in the middle is iconic to me. The soaring guitars are a ton of fun. I really appreciate Brandon Flowers' vocals on this one.

2. Mr. Brightside (Track #2)
Score: 148 (Average Rank: 3.23/12)
Biggest Fan(s): CasanovaZelos, Jesse_Custer (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): Raetsel_Lapin (#8)

ZaziGuado: It's sort of amazing to me how this became such a defining song of singalong music. I'm not mad about it, though. That opening verse followed by the chorus will set almost any group of people of a certain generation off. Any band would be wise to have this playable in their arsenal. I don't remember Mr. Brightside being an instant classic, moreso one that just kind of simmered and won people over the longer it stayed within pop culture until it reach iconic status.

1. Somebody Told Me (Track #4)
Score: 150 (Average Rank: 3.08/12)
Biggest Fan(s): ChichiriMuyo, MetalmindStats, SpikeSetsFire, Seanchan (#1)
Biggest Detractor(s): VeryInsane (#8)

ZaziGuado: First singles from a band's discography are also significant. The Killers also did pretty good with this one as well, though I think has been largely eclipsed by so many other singles over the course of their career. Still a fun song.

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Not my favorite BFF album, but this one definitely brings back some memories.

Wheres Summer B.?
Best Imitation of Myself
Philosophy
Underground
Boxing
The Last Polka
Video
Alice Childress
Jackson Cannery
Julianne
Sports & Wine
Uncle Walter

oh rats i knew i'd forget to come back to last week's topic

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This will be the first album in the series I haven't heard before - though I have listened to Forever and Ever Amen and it didn't leave much impact...

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wooooooooo I'll rank these soon

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First listen and this one really didn't do much of anything for me. I guess I liked some of the piano bits but other than that... I didn't particularly enjoy Mr. Folds singing at all.

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I was picturing Forever and Ever Amen the entire time leading up to this and I feel silly. I've never really listened to this album, but I'll try and find time to give it a spin.

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Ever since listening to this again earlier, Ive had The Last Polka running through my head repeatedly. I had forgotten how catchy some of these songs are.

bump

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up

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bump

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hmm

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1. Alice Childress
2. Jackson Cannery
3. Underground
4. Best Imitation of Myself
5. Uncle Walter
6. Julianne
7. Video
8. The Last Polka
9. Philosophy
10. Boxing
11. Where's Summer B.?
12. Sports & Wine

This album wavers for me somewhere between this is enjoyable to ugh this track is way too long in the tooth. My experience with Ben Folds Five is limited to the biggest singles, or Folds' much more enjoyable solo work. Ben Folds' vocals are always sung with tongue firmly pressed in cheek, and that's both an aid and a hindrance. It makes for some fun listens, but when it comes to brass tacks, I have difficulty concerting the level of seriousness I'm supposed to take some of these. By the time the album's closer, "Boxing", comes around, I just end up feeling nothing because I'm so exhausted by the constant levels of sarcasm on the display in the album. Much like the lyrics and vocals, the instruments settle into a comfort zone of alt.-jazz arrangements with Ben Folds' signature piano-styled rock replacing parts that would typically feature guitar work. I definitely enjoyed some songs on this project, "Alice Childress" feels like the most genuine song on the album, a wistful ditty about separation in love and the cruelty of the world. "Jackson Cannery" offers an up-beat opening to the album that is a much traditional pop rock song than anything else on the album. "Underground", the album's most famous song, is a track that lampoons underground music culture just as pays loving homage to the scene, a humorous song about finding happiness in niche corners while still laughing at the ridiculousness of it all. I have nothing really remarkable to say about the rest; it's a perfectly serviceable 90s' alt rock record, which sees a new band trying to finds it footing and ultimately slipping into a pit of mediocrity, with mass potential just out of reach.

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Listened to the album for the first time today

There are two thoughts that came to mind while listening:

1. The jazzy, sometimes experimental instrumentals are fantastic
2. Nobody in this band can sing, especially Ben Folds

this sounded like an amateur karaoke night featuring someone that doesn't know what is and isn't in their range being done overtop of ecstatic cabaret piano and a powerful bass guitar. The backup vocals only made things worse.

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I'm a Ben Folds enjoyer but never listened to this one, three spins later here's my impression

1. Boxing
2. Underground
3. Where's Summer B?
4. Philosophy
5. Alex Childress
6. Best Imitation of Myself
7. Last Polka
8. Sports & Wine
9. Uncle Walter
10. Jackson Cannery
11. Video
12. Julianne

Ben's voice is in full amateur slacker mode here but his songwriting palette and piano skills indicate a serious academic musician, convincingly blending idioms of classical, jazz, rockabilly, soul, and musical theater into a pop record that attempts sincerity as much as sarcasm. The rhythm section is raw compared to their later releases, grounded in a lo-fi garage band zone that doesn't let you forget how 90's it is - nostalgia mileage may vary. It's a decent debut, never really dips into 'bad' territory. The better half showcases Ben's ambition and pop sensibilities, the lesser is average to forgettable pop rock.
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oh and I gotta shout out the Ben Folds/William Shatner record "Has Been", that one is a gem
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Seginustemple posted...

oh and I gotta shout out the Ben Folds/William Shatner record "Has Been", that one is a gem

No way, Ben Folds was actually involved on that album? That's one of very few albums that I listened to and "It Hasn't Happened Yet" has been one of my guilty pleasures for forever.
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Raetsel_Lapin posted...

No way, Ben Folds was actually involved on that album? That's one of very few albums that I listened to and "It Hasn't Happened Yet" has been one of my guilty pleasures for forever.

Yep, that's a Folds arrangement. They first collaborated on the Fear of Pop record - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BH2Dzp5NaE
No guilty pleasure necessary, spoken word can be legit! Shatner's persona works well with Folds' tendency to mix irony with vulnerability.
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bump

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Where's Summer B.?
Philosophy
Sports & Wine
Video
Jackson Cannery
Underground
The Last Polka
Best Imitation of Myself
Uncle Walter
Alice Childress
Julianne
Boxing

The piano was beautiful.
The singing was questionable.


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I do think Bens vocals improved significantly with his later work. For instance, on the song Narcolepsy off the bands third album (their best imo), Ben showed a lot of range and vocal control.

According to Ben, the band had originally recorded 15 tracks for their self-titled debut album, but later trimmed it down to 12 after their management informed them that "15 songs is a big ask for a first album." Had these 3 songs (Emaline, Eddie Walker and Tom & Mary) - which later appeared on the album Naked Baby Photos - been included here, I would have considered this possibly the greatest album of all-time. As it stands it's still top 25 for me, one that really set the bar for piano rock at the time.

There is some serious musicianship on display here, with all the tracks (to my knowledge) being recorded live. Ben's unpolished singing voice is polarizing, but to me it really works, maybe in part because I feel like *I* could sing like that lol. Actually my top 3 solo artists - Ben Folds, Jack White and Elliott Smith - all have singing voices that are pretty rough around the edges, but the songwriting is so strong and unique that I think they pull it off. Something about that makes the music more appealing - knowing that the musician feels a need to sing the words they wrote, regardless of "traditional" singing talent. Gives the songs more character and honesty.

There are no bad songs here. Even my last-place track is like a 7/10. Ben Folds really got me back into playing piano as an adult, and this is by far the album I learned the most songs off of, having half of them memorized at one point.

1) The Last Polka

Somehow a polka in a minor key is one of the most intense break-up songs ever written. Ben's desperate vocals soar over the band's furiously-paced performance. A bombastic and cathartic portrayal of a doomed relationship.

Here's one of their strongest performances of it, with some extra piano flair. Ben's really putting in work here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXllND_LRf0

2) Underground

Ben is so great at these unlikely music & lyric combinations. Here you have a euphoric, almost honky-tonk dance tune about punk rock posers, that shifts styles multiple times and is arguably making fun of its own fanbase a little. With the falsetto back-up vocals and jazzy outro, it's just way too much fun.

Fun fact - this is the one cover off this album I've recorded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY45CXIxNi0

3) Philosophy

Ben's piano skills and signature moves are on full display here, from the rich opening riff to the closing Rhapsody in Blue homage & fist slams. The band absolutely crushed this on Jools Holland:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3kI4MYfCLI

4) Jackson Cannery - One of the best debut tracks ever, it grabs your attention from the opening chord and sets the tone for the rest of the album with its high energy, reflective bridge and 3-part harmonies.

5) Alice Childress - an incredibly poignant track that still shows off quite a bit of musicality, with a bridge that could make you cry. Named after a mental patient who threw water at Ben's ex.

6) Boxing - featuring perhaps the most powerful lyric on the album: sometimes I punch myself hard as I can, yelling 'nobody cares', hoping someone will tell me how wrong I am. a heartbreaking waltz about the inevitable deterioration of the body.

7) Best Imitation of Myself - I can't believe this isn't even in my top half, but the album's so loaded. Not the most musically complex, but features deeply relatable lyrics for anyone who's felt like they need to appear a certain way socially, sung with real conviction.

8) Video - quite a mature and dark song, considering Ben supposedly wrote it at 16. Very epic bridge, and lyrics that are becoming even more relevant as time goes on.

9) Sports & Wine - not the most memorable track, but a lot of fun and doesn't overstay its welcome. Impressively fast piano.

10) Uncle Walter - Awesome fuzz bass and closing piano solo. More tongue-in-cheek lyrics about that rambling elderly relative everyone has.

11) Where's Summer B.? - simple, fun and catchy; more of a 'standard' pop song compared to the others. Ben's voice sounds great here I think.

12) Julianne - not terrible but a little too lo-fi garage rock for me. Featuring Ben barely enunciating some of the lyrics, and bags of empty bottles being dropped on a hard floor.

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jcgamer107 posted...

Had these 3 songs (Emaline, Eddie Walker and Tom & Mary) - which later appeared on the album Naked Baby Photos - been included here, I would have considered this possibly the greatest album of all-time.

Emaline is one of my favorites, I actually might rank it above any track on the album.

jcgamer107 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY45CXIxNi0

Awesome cover!

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Yeah that cover is impressive man, it's hard to sing+play at that level! Totally nailed that bebop line at the end
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1: Underground
2: Alice Childress
3: Where's Summer B.?
4: Jackson Cannery
5: Best Imitation of Myself
6: Boxing
7: Philosophy
8: Sports & Wine
9: Julianne
10: The Last Polka
11: Video
12: Uncle Walter

I was surprised how much I enjoyed this album. I can't really find anything I want to say, but I at least want to be on record as quite liking this.

Seginustemple: Neat! I rather liked that song too, thank you very much for telling me about it.

jcgamer107: Wow, you really nailed that performance of my favorite song from the album. Well done!
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Second listen...and yes, this is entirely listenable. Still blows my mind the dichotomy between the instruments and the vocals, but now knowing that I can somewhat mentally move past that.

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Thanks for the kind words about the Underground cover! I was up really late that night playing it over and over until I got a good take

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jcgamer107 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY45CXIxNi0

Somehow I missed this before. This is really good! I think Ben himself would be impressed if he watched it.

omg I would just DIE

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I'm walking away from this with the most neutral response possible - though it was fun to do this with an album where I had no previous expectations, not even a recognizable single.

My ranking:
Philosophy
Underground
Sports & Wine
Best Imitation of Myself
The Last Polka
Jackson Cannery
Uncle Walter
Julianne
Alice Childress
Where's Summer B.?
Video
Boxing

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1. The Last Polka
2. Wheres Summer B.?
3. Best Imitation Of Myself
4. Julianne
5. Boxing
6. Video
7. Jackson Cannery
8. Sports & Wine
9. Philosophy
10. Alice Childress
11. Underground
12. Uncle Walter

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1. Sports & Wine
2. The Last Polka
3. Philosophy
4. Where's Summer B.?
5. Boxing
6. Jackson Cannery
7. Best Imitation of Myself
8. Alice Childress
9. Video
10. Underground
11. Julianne
12. Uncle Walter

This one grew one me quite a bit on re-listens. I just wish the singing didn't feel so damn amateur hour. As I said previously, you can most get past it but there's also that little voice in my head going "but imagine if the singing was better...".

Really interested in seeing the ranking for this though. There doesn't appear to be any major consensus; a lot of different songs at #1.

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wait are you telling me jcgamer hasn't been Ben Folds this whole time?

I'm not convinced

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1. Uncle Walter
2. Philosophy
3. Underground
4. The Last Polka
5. Jackson Cannery
6. Best Imitation of Myself
7. Julianne
8. Sports & Wine
9. Video
10. Boxing
11. Where's Summer B.?
12. Alice Childress

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last bump

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jcgamer107 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY45CXIxNi0

I have to agree with the general praise for your cover - this is really impressive! Relatedly, I've also found the album itself quite impressive all three times even if it never really wowed me, enough so that I'll consider checking out future BFF albums without a topic to convince me. It's sufficiently outside my musical wheelhouse that I have nothing of even potential substance to say about it, though.

1. Philosophy
2. The Last Polka
3. Underground
4. Boxing
5. Uncle Walter
6. Best Imitation of Myself
7. Jackson Cannery
8. Alice Childress
9. Where's Summer B.?
10. Video
11. Julianne
12. Sports & Wine

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