Current Events > The cast of DBZ vs the cast of Marvel Avengers

(+) Yeah! (+)

Kinda spoilers? https://youtu.be/LCUd2mxkl3o

Frieza pretty casually destroys a planet here. That's base form, never ever trained Frieza, whose power is infinitesimal compared to current Canon Z warriors.

---

https://youtu.be/jHLfhI0H_GA

This isnt canon but i still think is the coolest dbz clip. Shows king vegeta destroy 3 planets casually. I wish the canon stuff didnt nerf the destruction shown. The fight with beerus and goku somewhat rivals this clip since it showed basically a solar system being destroyed (shows clips of a star, planetoids, asteroids and planets getting dusted iirc).

This kills spidey and below. The upper upper tiers of avengers could survive tho

---

DBZ easy

Also Im 100% sure Zeno could just snap his fingers and win in like 2 seconds. But even if that isnt the case, you still have OP DB things like Hakai, or the fact that there are several characters that can easily destroy entire planets

---

SpiritSephiroth posted...

You literally hit the nail on the head. This goes for every other versus topic. Does one punch man win because he punches people? Does Superman win because he has no limits? Does Goku win because he always breaks those limits?

None of it is designed to be put together and people keep trying to force those rules to work in one universe, when in fact it simply can't. Which is why you can't rely on those type of reasoning when making a convincing argument.

Yeah, pretty much. It's already hard to actually show which OP character can beat which when they're in the same company, let alone when they're made by two different people in two different franchises.

And PIS really makes it hard to actually nail down where people's power-levels actually are at.

---

---

Arent you all watching What If?

Ultron just came *this* close to killing the writers & narrators. DBZ characters havent reached quite that level of power (yet)

Isn't Marvel's What If literally about things that don't actually happen? It's the definition of not canon

---

Doe posted...

Isn't Marvel's What If literally about things that don't actually happen? It's the definition of not canon

Would you like an itemized list of all the times Marvel characters killed the writers & entered the real world?

Xethuminra posted...

Would you like an itemized list of all the times Marvel characters killed the writers & entered the real world?

If they did that, why are the writer still alive?

---

Doe posted...

If they did that, why are the writer still alive?

What Im saying is that it sounds like the Marvel characters could literally just write Goku out of the story if they wanted.

Who, in DBZ, has such influence?

Xethuminra posted...

What Im saying is that it sounds like the Marvel characters could literally just write Goku out of the story if they wanted.

But that's not true.

Xethuminra posted...

Who, in DBZ, has such influence?

Anyone who collects the super dragon balls, I suppose.

---

Doe posted...

But that's not true.

Anyone who collects the super dragon balls, I suppose.

Thats different. And I think youre missing the point. The wishes still happen entirely within the confines of the story. Hmm.....

Has Goku ever met his creator?

Xethuminra posted...

What Im saying is that it sounds like the Marvel characters could literally just write Goku out of the story if they wanted.

Who, in DBZ, has such influence?

Xeno

---

SpiritSephiroth posted...

Xeno

Xeno is like a Watcher/He Who Remains level character, yes?

So, unless Xeno is doing the fighting.... Idk. Do the Z-Fighters have anyone like that on their team?

As pointed out to the stage of redundancy elsewhere here in this thread, Dr Strange alone can calculate the sum of all possible timelines multiple years in advance (even in the MCU, let alone the level of shenanigans his comic book counterpart is capable of committing) ~ This is why the Marvel characters have been taking down all kinds of gods & cosmic threats for decades. I think Goku & co are just breaking into that dimension.

It's not clear if Zeno can fight. He can destroy a universe but all that means is he has a power that destroys a universe.

---

Idk if it just hype or not but JumpForce Goku supposedly beat a being called Prometheus that viewed the entire jump universe (includes all manga published in Shonen Jump) as fiction. Idk what tier thatd make jumpforce goku tho. People say he is above xeno goku.

Xeno goku is some dragonball heroes character. A haxxed up and stronger goku basically. Immune to a bunch of reality warping stuff like existence erasure. He beat a infinite multiversal busting character so people scale him really high.

---

Doe posted...

Isn't Marvel's What If literally about things that don't actually happen? It's the definition of not canon

Actually, What If? stories do all happen, just in alternate universes. There's a canon explanation for it in Loki.

but if were drawing from alternate versions of characters, we run into the same hiccup.....

..... numerous Marvel characters routinely step outside their stories, and simply outnumber Goku. The UN would have to get involved. Nobody wins.

Zeno is a different character than Xeno Goku, Zeno is from Super.

Apparently he can destroy entire universes and immortal beings just by thinking about it.

I'm googling all this, I'm way behind on Dragonball, lol.

---

How this would probably work is similarly to when Doctor Strange met Dormammu.

as when any two ultimately powerful beings meet, there tends to be a standstill or their powers cancel each other out,

MorningDream posted...

Actually, What If? stories do all happen, just in alternate universes. There's a canon explanation for it in Loki.

So then there will always both be universes where the avengers beat the Z Fighters and where the Z Fighters beat the Avengers, since there's an uncountable number of pre existing conditions determining their performance.

---

What makes this all so fun is how you can really do anything with these characters at this point ^.^

Goku is shown to be susceptible to everything from viruses to wishes, mind controlled allies, parallel evil versions of himself, and so on and so forth.

Both worlds contain characters who are constantly monitoring the timeline too. And the Marvel characters are generally way closer to the center of power in their universe... like true gods.... than the Z-Fighters are. When it came to negotiations offhand, wouldnt the fictional deities of Dragon Ball Z world be more likely to sacrifice the Z fighters than Marvels gods would the Avengers.......? Heck, send them all to the afterlife again. Someone will wish them back eventually. Lol

With Marvel, its not so simple. The Avengers are basically holding all of the universes together.

Its mythological, dude.

Goku is like, a weird monkey alien kid at the end of the day, with parallels to journey to the west. Hes the one of the strongest fighters in the universe, but does reality need him to exist in his story?

Doctor Strange, sorcerer supreme and guardian of time. Captain Marvel, basically Superman. Scarlet Witch, has the power to destroy gods. Thor, is a god of thunder & battle. I mean, those are some seriously important entities there...... Even Ant-Man has access to the quantum realm, let alone being able to enter the body as a microorganism as I touched on numerous times.

The Guardians of the Galaxy, with a little help, could have beaten Thanos. Gokus main weakness here (again) might come down to his honorable nature & reliance on extremely conventional brutal combat..... whereas the Avengers just dont operate that way at all. All they have to do is catch him, trick him, hop on him, etc, and its basically probably over. Especially with a guy like Strange for a tactician.

Xethuminra posted...

What makes this all so fun is how you can really do anything with these characters at this point ^.^

Goku is shown to be susceptible to everything from viruses to wishes, mind controlled allies, parallel evil versions of himself, and so on and so forth.

Both worlds contain characters who are constantly monitoring the timeline too. And the Marvel characters are generally way closer to the center of power in their universe... like true gods.... than the Z-Fighters are. When it came to negotiations offhand, wouldnt the fictional deities of Dragon Ball Z world be more likely to sacrifice the Z fighters than Marvels gods would the Avengers.......? Heck, send them all to the afterlife again. Someone will wish them back eventually. Lol

With Marvel, its not so simple. The Avengers are basically holding all of the universes together.

Its mythological, dude.

Goku is like, a weird monkey alien kid at the end of the day, with parallels to journey to the west. Hes the one of the strongest fighters in the universe, but does reality need him to exist in his story?

Without Goku, 11 of the 12 universes would have been erased from existence. Granted, he's the one who put them all at risk in the first place by suggesting it to Zeno, who is the god of the multiverse. So... yeah your whole point is kind of untrue.

MorningDream posted...

Without Goku, 11 of the 12 universes would have been erased from existence. Granted, he's the one who put them all at risk in the first place by suggesting it to Zeno, who is the god of the multiverse. So... yeah your whole point is kind of untrue.

In Super

Xethuminra posted...

In Super

Are you trying to exclude Super while including every depiction of a Marvel character? At that point we may as well limit the Avengers to their very first storyline.

---

Xethuminra posted...

In Super

Goku literally put a stop to the red ribbon army on Earth. Defeated the Demon King Piccolo and kept his son in check.

He then put the whole Frieza force in disarray by defeating Frieza and causing them to go back to Earth and get revenge, eliminated their presence from the universe, probably saving countless of trillions of lives from slavery/extinction from their empire.

He also defeated Buu, an ancient evil who would have gone on to literally cause extinction on a universal level.

So yeah, Goku definitely mattered from day 1.

Edit: Also it was implied that Beerus wouldn't even had awoken if not for Goku and the prophesized Saiyan God. So if Goku wasn't there to keep things in check, even the Kais would have succumbed to Majin Buu.

Also the angels dont give two fucks about most mortals. So Whis would have just kept watch until Beerus decided to get up from his lazy ass to do something, which could have been in another few hundred years.

---

Doe posted...

Are you trying to exclude Super while including every depiction of a Marvel character? At that point we may as well limit the Avengers to their very first storyline.

No I am not. Im mainly focusing on the MCU vs DBZ, as the thread suggests

How well do the various Avengers resist their planet being blown up in a tiny fraction of an instant? Which is what even Vegeta could do in the first DBZ arc.

---

Ilishe posted...

How well do the various Avengers resist their planet being blown up in a tiny fraction of an instant? Which is what even Vegeta could do in the first DBZ arc.

Well, a vs there's is not a surprise attack on Marvel Earth. In character, DBZ fighters wont want to destroy the planet. But jf you're assuming they'll fight as best they can from the beginning, trying to do so would absolutely be great at annoying Thor and Strange, who will just absorb or redirect that power before going absolutely HAM in retaliation.

Xethuminra posted...

Arent you all watching What If?

Ultron just came *this* close to killing the writers & narrators. DBZ characters havent reached quite that level of power (yet)

Don't be so sure about that. The quality of the storytelling has dropped considerably over the last few years.

---

Ilishe posted...

How well do the various Avengers resist their planet being blown up in a tiny fraction of an instant? Which is what even Vegeta could do in the first DBZ arc.

Hyperion survived two Universes exploding

---

GS4Life posted...

Hyperion survived two Universes exploding

Is Hyperion even on the avengers?

---

The Z fighters would lose because of the sheer stupidity, naiveness, and pride of all characters.

If they took it seriously and aimed to kill the Avengers as fast as possible, they'd easily win. But that isn't in their nature and would never happen.

Avengers win.

---

Zikten posted...

To make it clear, comic Thor is on level with comic Superman. I think they even fought each other in one of the DC vs Marvel crossovers

And I am one who thinks Superman would beat Goku

Goku can teleport anywhere in the galaxy. Finding kryptonite would be cake walk for Goku.

insomniacRA posted...

Goku can teleport anywhere in the galaxy. Finding kryptonite would be cake walk for Goku.

And Goku would destroy it immediately to make it a fair fight. The DBZ cast take idiocy to a whole new level.

---

Funkydog posted...

And Goku would destroy it immediately to make it a fair fight. The DBZ cast take idiocy to a whole new level.

they would prob give avengers senzu beans too

---

Funkydog posted...

And Goku would destroy it immediately to make it a fair fight. The DBZ cast take idiocy to a whole new level.

Sure, but then Superman would injure Goku, triggering a ZENKAI POWER BOOST, or Superman's presence would summon Darkseid to kill Krilling again or something, giving Goku the SSJ7 strength he needs to beat Superman.

Can't argue with facts, man.

---

insomniacRA posted...

Goku can teleport anywhere in the galaxy. Finding kryptonite would be cake walk for Goku.

This just means you admit Goku wouldn't win without acting drastically out of character.

Murphiroth posted...

This just means you admit Goku wouldn't win without acting drastically out of character.

These guys ever fighting outside of for-funsies is drastically out of character and the way the Z Fighters approach a battle when its friendly vs when innocent lives are at stake are totally different.

---

insomniacRA posted...

Goku can teleport anywhere in the galaxy. Finding kryptonite would be cake walk for Goku.

Just so we're clear here, not that Goku even knows what kryptonite is, but Lex Luthor can also go anywhere in the Galaxy he wants to and still has a hard time finding kryptonite, and kryptonite isn't as deadly as it used to be anyway.

---

E_S_M_Z posted...

Sure, but then Superman would injure Goku, triggering a ZENKAI POWER BOOST, or Superman's presence would summon Darkseid to kill Krilling again or something, giving Goku the SSJ7 strength he needs to beat Superman.

Can't argue with facts, man.

Zenkai boosts haven't been a factor since the arc they were introduced. It's been all training and new transformations since then for Goku. The amount of power Zenkai boosts give is pretty minimal now.

---

Tyranthraxus posted...

Just so we're clear here, not that Goku even knows what kryptonite is, but Lex Luthor can also go anywhere in the Galaxy he wants to and still has a hard time finding kryptonite, and kryptonite isn't as deadly as it used to be anyway.

Lex Luthor just has lightning speed, which is different from Goku's teleportation right? I would imagine Goku being able to teleport at speeds much faster than Superman.

Plus Goku has the ultimate hack: THE DRAGON BALL
If he collects all the balls, he can essentially grant himself invincibility. Come to think of it, the show would have ended right there if that's what Goku had originally wished instead of bringing back Krillian to life.

insomniacRA posted...

Lex Luthor just has lightning speed, which is different from Goku's teleportation right?

Err no. He can only walk at a normal pace. He usually has access to a motherbox and can use it to teleport anywhere he wants. It's not instant and not really a good idea to try to use it mid fight but it's more than adequate for getting kryptonite.

---

PiOverlord posted...

Zenkai boosts haven't been a factor since the arc they were introduced. It's been all training and new transformations since then for Goku. The amount of power Zenkai boosts give is pretty minimal now.

You've seen the tournament of power right?

---

insomniacRA posted...

Goku can teleport anywhere in the galaxy. Finding kryptonite would be cake walk for Goku.

The galaxy is, however, outrageously large, and he doesn't know where krypton even was, let alone where it's few remaining chunks have gone. And his teleportation requires locking onto living ki, of which there is likely to be none in any given cubic light year of empty space. So... no? He will literally die of old age before completing this kind of search.

SpiritSephiroth posted...

You've seen the tournament of power right?

They were shown not to work in Buu saga
---