Poll of the Day > How do you feel about a vaccine passport?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I only somewhat support it

Feels weird presenting documentation to enter anywhere

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I feel hungry

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It's an annoying rule because some people are dumb enough to put the greater good at risk

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I don't understand the point. I have my vaccination card.

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papers please!
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Judgmenl posted...

I don't understand the point. I have my vaccination card.

About 20 minutes after places started asking to see people's vaccination cards, the market was flooded by tons of fake vaccination cards. You can buy them on Etsy.

The idea behind some sort of passport is that it would have to be designed in a way that makes forgery either extremely difficult or impossible, and would probably have to go hand-in-hand with severe penalties for getting caught with a fake one.
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Good in theory (I really wish they weren't necessary, but alas, people suck), lots of issues in practice. It's very difficult to strike a balance between being robust enough to prevent rampant forgeries and being simplistic enough that small businesses can implement the necessary infrastructure without too much cost (though a personalized QR code paired with a photo ID is pretty hard to fake, and just needs a smartphone to screen), and no matter what system is implemented, underpaid front-line workers are going to be taking the vast majority of the abuse (including genuine physical danger, in many cases) from people that don't like it. Pair it with, say, automatically executing anyone that gives store staff a hard time over it would be a nice improvement, but that's perhaps a bit more extreme a countermeasure than most would be willing to consider.

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I don't care really. If it becomes a issue when out with folk without one I'll simply go elsewhere. No different to not being let into some places for whatever reason for me. As for going abroad with those people I very rarely do that so not a big deal.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

The idea behind some sort of passport is that it would have to be designed in a way that makes forgery either extremely difficult or impossible, and would probably have to go hand-in-hand with severe penalties for getting caught with a fake one.

We actually have the NHS provide our medical records. Coupled with I.D it sorta works. I say sorta as it's having issues right now with the NHS not being able to find some folks medical records.

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I want to have sex with it, and then a 3 way with the declaration of independence (while Nicolas Cage watches and cries).

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St_Kevin posted...

I only somewhat support it

Feels weird presenting documentation to enter anywhere

: /

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I support it but I wish we had more of a stronger universal system in the States.

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It's unconstitutional and illegal.

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as an adrenochrome addict and satanist, I think its a terrible idea

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MagicalPrincess posted...

It's unconstitutional and illegal.

Do you know that for sure, or are you just being emotional right now?

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MagicalPrincess posted...

It's unconstitutional and illegal.

It was ruled constitutional in 1905 for handling smallpox. Why do you cling to a position that was already defeated over a century ago?

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Extreme_light posted...

I support it but I wish we had more of a stronger universal system in the States.

MagicalPrincess posted...

It's unconstitutional and illegal.

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adjl posted...

It was ruled constitutional in 1905 for handling smallpox. Why do you cling to a position that was already defeated over a century ago?

Further, this is a question of whether you would support something.

"What should the rules be" rather than "what are the rules currently"

Saying "it's illegal/unconstitutional" just sidesteps the question. Often when people find it too hard to actually defend their stance based on values and outcomes.


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Clench281 posted...

Further, this is a question of whether you would support something.

"What should the rules be" rather than "what are the rules currently"

Saying "it's illegal/unconstitutional" just sidesteps the question. Often when people find it too hard to actually defend their stance based on values and outcomes.

Indeed. Legalistic morality is one of the most intellectually lazy positions you can possibly take. It's blatantly saying "I don't want to think about it so I'll just defer to what the government says," which is honestly pretty hilarious given how the "it's unconstitutional!" crowd loves criticizing people for blindly following the government.

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We SHOULDNT need it, but unfortunately there are way too many dumb-dumbs in our country. So Ill support it.

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At this point, I completely support them. We've got too many people travelling and putting others at risk.

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An ICU nurse that I met when I went to the one place here that isnt partaking in the governments BS said its really stupid because you can just give your phone to your friend to get them in.

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There's an anti-vax, anti-masker who caused an outbreak at my workplace and killed 5 people. Guess what? She's still regularly visiting and she's still anti-vax and anti-mask.

So yes, I support vaccine "passports." We already have such documentation for public schools related to other vaccinations and certain workplaces already require you to be vaccinated for other diseases. If people didn't want vaccine passports to be a thing, then they should have taken personal responsibility and gotten vaxxed on their own.

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Sarcasthma posted...

Do you know that for sure, or are you just being emotional right now?

@MagicalPrincess

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I oppose it for the same reasons I oppose things like censorship and social credit scores.

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Gaawa_chan posted...

There's an anti-vax, anti-masker who caused an outbreak at my workplace and killed 5 people. Guess what? She's still regularly visiting and she's still anti-vax and anti-mask.

So yes, I support vaccine "passports." We already have such documentation for public schools related to other vaccinations and certain workplaces already require you to be vaccinated for other diseases. If people didn't want vaccine passports to be a thing, then they should have taken personal responsibility and gotten vaxxed on their own.

An honest question.

How do you know she caused the outbreak?

What specfically did the people die of (as in an actual reason not just "covid")

Not an anti vaxxer/masker here just curious when people make assumptions.

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Travel restrictions are the most effective way to limit spread, so it makes sense.

MagicalPrincess posted...

It's unconstitutional and illegal.

Other Countries don't give a fuck about your constitution.

silvergokuZ posted...

Not an anti vaxxer/masker here just curious when people make assumptions.

"Why are you making assumptions about someone you personally know that I don't?"

Yup. Totally not an anti-vaxxer.

yes

not only is it legal and allowable through the very incredibly outdated constitution, but it already happens for bars and other things where you have to be over the age of 21 to go to.

it's literally no different than showing id to buy beer or weed, something that everyone is already fine with doing.

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silvergokuZ posted...

An honest question.

How do you know she caused the outbreak?

What specfically did the people die of (as in an actual reason not just "covid")

Not an anti vaxxer/masker here just curious when people make assumptions.

Jesus Christ this is the lowest effort to downplay covid's severity that I've seen in weeks. I thought we were past this shit.

"I'm JuSt AsKiNg QuEsTiOnS"

You know exactly what you're doing and it's despicable

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silvergokuZ posted...

What specfically did the people die of (as in an actual reason not just "covid")

the fact that you think covid can't be an "actual reason" puts this:

silvergokuZ posted...

Not an anti vaxxer/masker here just curious when people make assumptions.

into question.

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likehelly posted...

the fact that you think covid can't be an "actual reason" puts this:

into question.

Anti-vaxxers are really bad at pretending they aren't anti-vaxxers.

Seems a little too late for that.

I haven't kept up my real passport, so I don't really care about the Vaccine passport.

Back when I used to travel the world I never needed a vaccine passport, but I did need to have proof of vaccination for measles, mumps and rubella to enter certain places.

Im vaccinated, so, it certainly wouldnt hinder me.

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silvergokuZ posted...

What specfically did the people die of (as in an actual reason not just "covid")

"They didn't die of Covid! They just happened to develop double pneumonia and multiple organ failure while infected with Covid!"

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silvergokuZ posted...

How do you know she caused the outbreak?
What specfically did the people die of (as in an actual reason not just "covid")

We perform screening and contact tracing at my place of employment (it's an assisted living facility), which means we keep records of everyone who comes into the building, screen people for symptoms and such, urge people who develop symptoms and have been in the building to contact us, and trace who has been in contact with who if someone has COVID. We've had two outbreaks over the course of the pandemic. We managed to get the first one under control and no one died. The second one was a fucking nightmare by comparison, with 40 cases in total and 5 deaths out of those. I don't remember the exact breakdown but I'll estimate from memory and say that the infected cases were a little less than half the residents and a little more than half the employees.

As an aside, we also test all employees and residents once a week (twice a week during outbreaks) and vaccines were given out on-site for convenience, so we have a high percentage of vaccinated people in the building.

Obviously, these attempts only do so much if people are not fucking complying with precautions and/or are fucking lying to my goddamn face during the screening process.

As for the second question, the victims' exact medical details are none of your business, nor mine, which is why I cannot give them to you (HIPAA). I do not have access to that information; I just have the outbreak updates that everyone received every day or so about the general status, which includes the number of people infected, then the number of people recovered and dead, broken down by which part of the building they worked/lived in, because that is all I needed to know as a screener.

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It's unneeded.

Collat posted...

"Why are you making assumptions about someone you personally know that I don't?"

Yup. Totally not an anti-vaxxer.

Autistic actually so I am curious by nature.

So you just assumed.

Clench281 posted...

Jesus Christ this is the lowest effort to downplay covid's severity that I've seen in weeks. I thought we were past this shit.

"I'm JuSt AsKiNg QuEsTiOnS"

You know exactly what you're doing and it's despicable

Rude, see above.

Covid is real, deaths from it are real, but I do at very least believe theres a bigger picture, or those in power are intentionally being vague or in other words, I'm not the sort of person saying its all fake, we shouldn't wear masks etc.

I wear a mask, had both doses of vaccine months ago (I actually phoned my doctor early on as I thought I was in a at risk group and was worried I might be missed out as I am under 50)

The two responses there just create more hate and assumptions, I am from the UK btw.

Gaawa_chan posted...

We perform screening and contact tracing at my place of employment (it's an assisted living facility), which means we keep records of everyone who comes into the building, screen people for symptoms and such, urge people who develop symptoms and have been in the building to contact us, and trace who has been in contact with who if someone has COVID. We've had two outbreaks over the course of the pandemic. We managed to get the first one under control and no one died. The second one was a fucking nightmare by comparison, with 40 cases in total and 5 deaths out of those. I don't remember the exact breakdown but I'll estimate from memory and say that the infected cases were a little less than half the residents and a little more than half the employees.

As an aside, we also test all employees and residents once a week (twice a week during outbreaks) and vaccines were given out on-site for convenience, so we have a high percentage of vaccinated people in the building.

Obviously, these attempts only do so much if people are not fucking complying with precautions and/or are fucking lying to my goddamn face during the screening process.

As for the second question, the victims' exact medical details are none of your business, nor mine, which is why I cannot give them to you (HIPAA). I do not have access to that information; I just have the outbreak updates that everyone received every day or so about the general status, which includes the number of people infected, then the number of people recovered and dead, broken down by which part of the building they worked/lived in, because that is all I needed to know as a screener.

The reason I asked was for a few reasons, automatically we assume that a person who is anti mask and vaccine is the culprit when its so random to get infected they may be, or they may not be and people jump to the blame game, hence me asking to see if there was an actual way you narrowed it down.

And the reason for the 2nd question is hard to word but because people generally do just blame covid and not anything else. I'm actually not saying they didn't die of it specifically, I'm saying theres a possibility it was something that pushed them over the edge, its like any sort of thing these days, if you aren't one way you are assumed to be another, Im actually open to listen hence asking questions.

To all responses, think about that before posting rather than have an actual polite two way discussion it ends up more agression which can put off a potential supporter for your side of an argument, im still open but I do feel like I have been treated in a terrible way.

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silvergokuZ posted...

To all responses, think about that before posting rather than have an actual polite two way discussion it ends up more agression which can put off a potential supporter for your side of an argument, im still open but I do feel like I have been treated in a terrible way.

Nothing new here or on the internet in general. Some folk get really pissed if you dare to even ask simple questions that can be easily answered. I'd say Gaawa_chan covered the answers well here. Still I do understand that some deaths are put down as COVID when it's the underlining issues the person had before that killed them so nothing wrong with asking questions on a forum rather than following like sheep, belittling others and TRYING to sound intelligent.

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silvergokuZ posted...

And the reason for the 2nd question is hard to word but because people generally do just blame covid and not anything else.

They really don't. There's a lot of "he died in a car crash but they called it a covid death because they discovered he was covid positive post-mortem!" going around, but that doesn't actually happen on any meaningful scale. If Covid is listed as a cause of death for somebody, it's overwhelmingly because there's good reason to believe Covid was a factor in their death.

wwinterj25 posted...

Still I do understand that some deaths are put down as COVID when it's the underlining issues the person had before that killed them

If I stab a hemophiliac and they bleed to death, I'm going to be guilty of murdering them even though they'd likely have survived if not for their hemophilia. Being able to say that somebody would likely have survived their Covid infection if not for some other comorbidity does not in any way mean Covid was not a factor in their death, nor that it shouldn't be cited as one of their causes of death.

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Vaccine passport and proof of vaccination are two diff animals.

even without passports then proof of vaccination can still be required but just make it harder for individuals to prove their vaccination status.

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silvergokuZ posted...

Autistic actually so I am curious by nature.

I'm also autistic. A naturally curious person would have, out of natural curiosity, googled how people trace outbreaks to their sources.
But by all means hide behind the plausible deniability you gave yourself.

... automatically we assume that a person who is anti mask and vaccine is the culprit...
...people generally do just blame covid and not anything else.
To all responses, think about that before posting rather than have an actual polite two way discussion....

I just told you that 5 people I work with died and why and your response is to act as though I'm lying, and then you have the nerve to say other people should think before posting and then you virtue signal about propriety.

I would cut you some slack considering you are autistic but everyone and their mother knows the "just asking questions" meme. In case you hadn't noticed, people are sick of trolls pestering them 24/7 as if we don't already have enough shit to deal with.

Must be nice to be sitting pretty away from all the death so you feel comfortable "just asking questions" of people in the shit.

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Gaawa_chan posted...

I'm also autistic. A naturally curious person would have, out of natural curiosity, googled how people trace outbreaks to their sources.
But by all means hide behind the plausible deniability you gave yourself.

I just told you that 5 people I work with died and why and your response is to act as though I'm lying, and then you have the nerve to say other people should think before posting and then you virtue signal about propriety.

I would cut you some slack considering you are autistic but everyone and their mother knows the "just asking questions" meme. In case you hadn't noticed, people are sick of trolls pestering them 24/7 as if we don't already have enough shit to deal with.

Must be nice to be sitting pretty away from all the death so you feel comfortable "just asking questions" of people in the shit.

I don't know the meme, and I never once said or implied you were lying, you just seem upset and stuck in your own mindset and blaming me.

I ask specifically as I know about something called "fake news" so I wanted to know your own experience

I honestly can't tell if you just misunderstood and ran with it or just a nasty person.

But to go back on you, can you prove your accusations against me outside of opinion?

Because someone has a question or opinion doesn't make them a troll

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adjl posted...

If I stab a hemophiliac and they bleed to death, I'm going to be guilty of murdering them even though they'd likely have survived if not for their hemophilia. Being able to say that somebody would likely have survived their Covid infection if not for some other comorbidity does not in any way mean Covid was not a factor in their death, nor that it shouldn't be cited as one of their causes of death.

Similar to how no one on Earth has ever died of AIDS. Everyone who has ever had AIDS and died died from other complications or diseases that were allowed to flourish because AIDS had destroyed their immune system. But we still list every single one of those as "AIDS-related deaths" because AIDS is still the direct factor that led to that death, even if it isn't the thing that literally killed them.

And, you know, we've made it a criminal offense to knowingly spread AIDS to other people.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

papers please!

Please hand over your license and registration

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Krazy_Kirby posted...

papers please!

You entered personal information into a gaming forum in order to join it.

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wwinterj25 posted...

Nothing new here or on the internet in general. Some folk get really pissed if you dare to even ask simple questions that can be easily answered. I'd say Gaawa_chan covered the answers well here. Still I do understand that some deaths are put down as COVID when it's the underlining issues the person had before that killed them so nothing wrong with asking questions on a forum rather than following like sheep, belittling others and TRYING to sound intelligent.

You get pissed off about rainbows existing in classrooms, as if you have any room to talk


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silvergokuZ posted...

Autistic actually so I am curious by nature.

So you just assumed.

Anti-vaxxers sure like playing that card when called out.

Even though spouting conspiracy theories has nothing to do with autism.

Gaawa_chan posted...

We perform screening and contact tracing at my place of employment (it's an assisted living facility), which means we keep records of everyone who comes into the building, screen people for symptoms and such, urge people who develop symptoms and have been in the building to contact us, and trace who has been in contact with who if someone has COVID. We've had two outbreaks over the course of the pandemic. We managed to get the first one under control and no one died. The second one was a fucking nightmare by comparison, with 40 cases in total and 5 deaths out of those. I don't remember the exact breakdown but I'll estimate from memory and say that the infected cases were a little less than half the residents and a little more than half the employees.

As an aside, we also test all employees and residents once a week (twice a week during outbreaks) and vaccines were given out on-site for convenience, so we have a high percentage of vaccinated people in the building.

Obviously, these attempts only do so much if people are not fucking complying with precautions and/or are fucking lying to my goddamn face during the screening process.

As for the second question, the victims' exact medical details are none of your business, nor mine, which is why I cannot give them to you (HIPAA). I do not have access to that information; I just have the outbreak updates that everyone received every day or so about the general status, which includes the number of people infected, then the number of people recovered and dead, broken down by which part of the building they worked/lived in, because that is all I needed to know as a screener.

This doesnt really answer the question as to how you knew it was this particular girl, however. I mean, if she answers Yes to is sick, then you wouldnt let her in, right? If shes lying and it isnt apparent, how do you know?

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Clench281 posted...

You get pissed off about rainbows existing in classrooms, as if you have any room to talk

Not sure where you got that from other than pulling it from your arse. I actively support Rainbows in classrooms such as this:


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