Current Events > Season 3 was the best season of Avatar

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://youtu.be/wIJ1W3SYTIY

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It's a neck-and-neck race between Book 2, but I agree. Book 2 is amazing for the most part, but lets itself down ever-so-slightly with the climax being a beat-by-beat retread of Empire Strikes Back. Book 3 lets itself down slightly by wasting an entire precious episode on 'Nightmares and Daydreams,' when that slot should've been used later for a legitimate Zuko + Toph 'field trip.'

Book 3 gets the edge because it has all those key moments of satisfying payoff. Zuko finally standing up to his father and changing sides; Katara confronting her mother's killer; Zuko and Iroh's reunion; Zuko and Azula's Agni Kai; Aang's showdown with the Fire Lord.

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D, bad pacing and bad finale, rushed characterization

Season 2 is one of the greatest seasons of a cartoon of all time, even counting the fillery eps

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I only saw the movie not the series

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It's a toss-up between season 2 and 3 for me.

I think we can agree that there isn't a bad season of ATLA, though - this show has the same issue as the first Professor Layton trilogy, where the first installment is pretty great, but it pales in comparison to the next two instalments because they're just that good.

Compared to a lot of related media, the first season/game is rock-solid. It just had the misfortune within its own series to be the starting point of someone much larger, which diminishes it within the standing of the series.

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masterpug53 posted...

Book 3 lets itself down slightly by wasting an entire precious episode on 'Nightmares and Daydreams,'

yessss i always hated that episode

2 = 3 > 1 imo.

2 and 3 both have their merits. 3 has Zuko's heel-face turn which is one of the greatest character moments in western animation history. Season 2 has some of the best episodes plus more Iroh. 1 isn't bad, but just isn't as strong as the other 2.

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D. Season 2 is the greatest season of T.V of all time

Wetterdew posted...

yessss i always hated that episode

It's one of those things where I'd have a strong desire to throttle anyone who would dare label episodes like 'The Beach' or the Footloose episode as 'filler,' when 'Nightmares and Daydreams' is a much better example. It's cute at times, but it is the very definition of treading water: Aang's having trouble sleeping, and Zuko's pouty over not being invited to a meeting, that's it. Nothing of consequence happens, there's no character development or greater message / theme, and the overall plot of the episode is terribly uninteresting.

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imo:

2>3>1

The only season from Korra that I'd even bother ranking alongside them is 3, which is arguably the best season out of the entire franchise.

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masterpug53 posted...

Zuko finally standing up to his father and changing sides; Katara confronting her mother's killer; Zuko and Iroh's reunion; Zuko and Azula's Agni Kai; Aang's showdown with the Fire Lord.

Weirdly enough, aang x fire lord is the weakest of all these options. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong about it aside from the "taking away bending from the lion turtle" which was arguably an ass-pull to solve aang's holdups about killing ozai, but it just goes to show how absolutely elite those other events are.

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Slayerblade11 posted...

D. Season 2 is the greatest season of T.V of all time

you just said its better than breaking bad, if it is the greatest season that means nothing is equal

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PatrickMahomes posted...

Weirdly enough, aang x fire lord is the weakest of all these options. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong about it aside from the "taking away bending from the lion turtle" which was arguably an ass-pull to solve aang's holdups about killing ozai, but it just goes to show how absolutely elite those other events are.

I wouldn't disagree. While I recognize it as a major example of deus ex, I don't really mind the lion turtle; tbh I usually only cite it when people bitch about LoK's deus ex while giving A:TLA a free ride in the same regard.

But anyway, to further the point you made in your last sentence, even though the A:TLA's final showdown was far from perfect, when you consider how many movies and television series disappoint or even fail spectacularly at sticking the landing, it's still a feather in A:TLA's cap that the finale ended up being quite good and satisfying overall.

Hell, I'd take it a step further and say that Aang's the weakest character overall out of the six core characters (Aang, Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, and Iroh); that's not a dig at Aang, he's just got some abnormally stellar competition.

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masterpug53 posted...

Hell, I'd take it a step further and say that Aang's the weakest character out of the six core characters (Aang, Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, and Iroh); that's not a dig at Aang, he's just got some abnormally stellar competition.

Agree wholeheartedly

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Unpopular opinion but Sokka sucks

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Hilariously Season 3 was the best in Korra as well.

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It's still insane to me how different the show is in quality from the first few episodes all the way to season 2 and the payoffs in season 3

Does anyone else read the avatar comics? They're pretty good. They finally explain and reveal what happened to zuko's mother (for better or worse)

They also deal a lot more with the spirit world, which I felt was mostly abandoned after season 1 to focus on the human world and fire nation war dilemma
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TheHoldSteady posted...

Unpopular opinion but Sokka sucks

I don't often say 'fite me irl,' but when I do, it's defending Sokka's honor.

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masterpug53 posted...

I don't often say 'fite me irl,' but when I do, it's defending Sokka's honor.

Sokka thinks he's way funnier than he actually he is

He's like the Joey Gladstone of Avatar


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masterpug53 posted...

I wouldn't disagree. While I recognize it as a major example of deus ex, I don't really mind the lion turtle; tbh I usually only cite it when people bitch about LoK's deus ex while giving A:TLA a free ride in the same regard.

But anyway, to further the point you made in your last sentence, even though the A:TLA's final showdown was far from perfect, when you consider how many movies and television series disappoint or even fail spectacularly at sticking the landing, it's still a feather in A:TLA's cap that the finale ended up being quite good and satisfying overall.

Hell, I'd take it a step further and say that Aang's the weakest character overall out of the six core characters (Aang, Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, and Iroh); that's not a dig at Aang, he's just got some abnormally stellar competition.

What LoK deus ex are you referring to by the by?
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masterpug53 posted...

Hell, I'd take it a step further and say that Aang's the weakest character overall out of the six core characters (Aang, Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, and Iroh); that's not a dig at Aang, he's just got some abnormally stellar competition.

Well said

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TheHoldSteady posted...

Sokka thinks he's way funnier than he actually he is

He's like the Joey Gladstone of Avatar

If you're basing your opinion of Sokka exclusively on his jokes - the lameness of which in-world characters will almost always tease him over - then you're missing the point. What makes Sokka such a great character is that he begins the story wearing a number of stereotypical roles - unfunny comic relief, sarcastic / pessimistic foil / punching bag, chauvinist, jealous third wheel. Yet as the series goes on he routinely sheds these stereotypes and quickly shows himself to be a genuinely-intelligent, thoughtful, helpful, and heartfelt character. In any other show he'd be the best character, but as has been said, he's in very tough competition. He's easy my gold standard as to what a character who would normally fit any of those stereotypes can develop into, given care and good writing.

saspa posted...

What LoK deus ex are you referring to by the by?

It's been awhile since I've given it some thought, but people usually zero in on LoK's Book 2 climax as being egregiously deus-ex; they're not wrong, but it actually has more in common with A:TLA's Book 1 climax than most of them are willing to admit. IIRC people also hated Aang gifting Korra's bending back to her at the end of Book 1 as being too deus-ex. It feels like the LoK hate has finally died down on CE over the past couple years, so it's not an argument that comes up that often anymore. I guess now that I think about it there's no direct parallel between A:TLA's lion-turtle and anything in LoK, just in a more general sense.

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I still remember being so hyped for the finale back in the day, and it was perfect.
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masterpug53 posted...

If you're basing your opinion of Sokka exclusively on his jokes - the lameness of which in-world characters will almost always tease him over - then you're missing the point. What makes Sokka such a great character is that he begins the story wearing a number of stereotypical roles - unfunny comic relief, sarcastic / pessimistic foil / punching bag, chauvinist, jealous third wheel. Yet as the series goes on he routinely sheds these stereotypes and quickly shows himself to be a genuinely-intelligent, thoughtful, helpful, and heartfelt character. In any other show he'd be the best character, but as has been said, he's in very tough competition. He's easy my gold standard as to what a character who would normally fit any of those stereotypes can develop into, given care and good writing.

It's been awhile since I've given it some thought, but people usually zero in on LoK's Book 2 climax as being egregiously deus-ex; they're not wrong, but it actually has more in common with A:TLA's Book 1 climax than most of them are willing to admit. IIRC people also hated Aang gifting Korra's bending back to her at the end of Book 1 as being too deus-ex. It feels like the LoK hate has finally died down on CE over the past couple years, so it's not an argument that comes up that often anymore. I guess now that I think about it there's no direct parallel between A:TLA's lion-turtle and anything in LoK, just in a more general sense.

I remember the part you're talking about in season 1 when she finally unlocks the avatar state and gets her powers back (which makes perfect sense, considering) but which part of season 2 do you mean? Is it the fact that rava dies and Korra loses her connection to all the past avatars forever, indefinitely? Because while I get what the writers were going for I also think it's justifiably hated.
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I fucking hated everything about the lion turtle in the finale. Suddenly inserts a new form of bending having little to do with the other elements. Gives Aang an easy out of his moral dilemma. Appears out of nowhere despite being an enormous powerful creature. And I can't understand a fucking word it says. The effects on its voice make everything it says completely unintelligible, making the conclusion of the final battle even more out of the blue.


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masterpug53 posted...

If you're basing your opinion of Sokka exclusively on his jokes - the lameness of which in-world characters will almost always tease him over - then you're missing the point. What makes Sokka such a great character is that he begins the story wearing a number of stereotypical roles - unfunny comic relief, sarcastic / pessimistic foil / punching bag, chauvinist, jealous third wheel. Yet as the series goes on he routinely sheds these stereotypes and quickly shows himself to be a genuinely-intelligent, thoughtful, helpful, and heartfelt character. In any other show he'd be the best character, but as has been said, he's in very tough competition. He's easy my gold standard as to what a character who would normally fit any of those stereotypes can develop into, given care and good writing.

I get what you're saying. But the difference between Sokka, and say Aang, is that Aang grew out of his early character traits while Sokka gained new ones. Book 1 and Book 3 Aang are almost two completely different characters. I'm not saying Sokka doesn't develop but his core cringiness never goes away.

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saspa posted...

I remember the part you're talking about in season 1 when she finally unlocks the avatar state and gets her powers back (which makes perfect sense, considering) but which part of season 2 do you mean? Is it the fact that rava dies and Korra loses her connection to all the past avatars forever, indefinitely? Because while I get what the writers were going for I also think it's justifiably hated.

Just the final battle itself, and all the spirit-y stuff associated with it: Korra turning into a giant, Jinora showing up out of nowhere to pull Raava out of Unalaq...or something (been awhile since I've seen that particular segment). It does feel very much like an ass-pull, which is of course a problem with both series when they rely too much on spirit shenanigans to get the heroes out of tight spots.

Somewhat related, but my biggest problem with LoK's book 2 finale is that they briefly touched on what I thought should have been a major arc of character growth in Korra's story - which was finding self-worth beyond being the Avatar - and just dropped it as soon as she gained cosmic Korrazilla powers. Which in hindsight leads to one of my other gripes with the series: that they killed Sokka off before the start of LoK. Give Book 1 a little tweak and have Korra spend a longer amount of time onscreen without her bending, and Old Chief Sokka would've been the perfect person to teach her how to have value and self-worth beyond her role as the Avatar, or as a bender in general.

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TheHoldSteady posted...

I get what you're saying. But the difference between Sokka, and say Aang, is that Aang grew out of his early character traits while Sokka gained new ones. Book 1 and Book 3 Aang are almost two completely different characters. I'm not saying Sokka doesn't develop but his core cringiness never goes away.

You're forgetting when Aang relapsed into little-kid-who-wanted-to-run-and-hide mode during a couple points in S3, most notably after arriving at the Western Air Temple and obviously not wanting to deal with the responsibilities of losing the battle and needing to come up with a new plan. Character growth does not equal becoming someone new entirely - this would be like expecting Zuko to completely shed his short-fuse temper after switching sides, which of course he doesn't.
Character growth is about developing positive qualities to the point where the negatives no longer guide said character, or channeling those negative qualities into something positive; the negatives never really go away.

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masterpug53 posted...

Just the final battle itself, and all the spirit-y stuff associated with it: Korra turning into a giant, Jinora showing up out of nowhere to pull Raava out of Unalaq...or something (been awhile since I've seen that particular segment). It does feel very much like an ass-pull, which is of course a problem with both series when they rely too much on spirit shenanigans to get the heroes out of tight spots.

Somewhat related, but my biggest problem with LoK's book 2 finale is that they briefly touched on what I thought should have been a major arc of character growth in Korra's story - which was finding self-worth beyond being the Avatar - and just dropped it as soon as she gained cosmic Korrazilla powers. Which in hindsight leads to one of my other gripes with the series: that they killed Sokka off before the start of LoK. Give Book 1 a little tweak and have Korra spend a longer amount of time onscreen without her bending, and Old Chief Sokka would've been the perfect person to teach her how to have value and self-worth beyond her role as the Avatar, or as a bender in general.

That reminds me of a line that's always attributed to the 2:

Aang never wanted to be the avatar in a world that desperately needed him.

Korra desperately wanted to be the avatar in a world that didn't need (or sometimes even want) her anymore.

And the shows make it the defining trait (especially in Korra's case) of both characters
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I dont get why people hate the ending. It was the perfect solution for a character like Aang, who hated violence. He stripped the villain of any strength he had, which was the ONLY identity that he had. He made him useless to the world, which is the perfect karma for someone who caused so much pain

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Whichever season had "Tales of Bae Sing Sae" was the best season. So I think that was Season 2.
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_____Cait posted...

I dont get why people hate the ending. It was the perfect solution for a character like Aang, who hated violence. He stripped the villain of any strength he had, which was the ONLY identity that he had. He made him useless to the world, which is the perfect karma for someone who caused so much pain

Because it was a last minute ass-pull. If you take LoK's first Avatar two-parter and put it in TLA to set up the lion turtles, it would be a perfect ending.

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saspa posted...

That reminds me of a line that's always attributed to the 2:

Aang never wanted to be the avatar in a world that desperately needed him.

Korra desperately wanted to be the avatar in a world that didn't need (or sometimes even want) her anymore.

And the shows make it the defining trait (especially in Korra's case) of both characters

Korra is the yang to Aang's yin in just about every conceivable way. In many ways she's essentially Zuko who starts her series as a protagonist instead of an antagonist. I have to admit, it still wounds me to this day that some people are so eager to be dismissive of Korra's character growth; because no matter how much I love and appreciate the depth in characters like Zuko, Iroh, Sokka, etc, Korra still ended up being my favorite character out of both series.

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Season 3 has most of my favorite episodes from the show. But season 2 introduced Toph and she was the reason that I started liking the show. So Im not sure which is better lol
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saspa posted...

Does anyone else read the avatar comics? They're pretty good. They finally explain and reveal what happened to zuko's mother (for better or worse)

Spoil me!

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_____Cait posted...

I dont get why people hate the ending. It was the perfect solution for a character like Aang, who hated violence. He stripped the villain of any strength he had, which was the ONLY identity that he had. He made him useless to the world, which is the perfect karma for someone who caused so much pain

Aang ultimately choosing non-violence makes sense. It just feels cheap because spirit bending was never really mentioned up until the exact moment he needed it in the final seconds of the final battle of the series. It would have felt better if they had established it organically in the world and the series ahead of time.

Throughout ATLA, the heroes overcome the odds through clever use of established bending techniques or the environment. Then the finale just invents a new element to solve the problem. Katara subdues Azula nonlethally with only one element, and let's be real, Azula is every bit as deadly as Ozai. Aang coulda done the same with earthbending. In fact he does. All he had to do was keep him there until someone could come along and lock him up.

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Both shows have a habit of falling back on spirit-y asspulls in key climatic moments; I personally don't mind them, and love the shows in spite of them, but these moments have a tough time holding up under scrutiny.

That's why The Drill is one of my favorite episodes: the gang finally scores a major victory against Azula and the Fire Nation using nothing more than their own wit and abilities, and said victory feels that much better earned as a result. It's also part of the reason why the gang fighting their way in to see the Earth King is what I would consider to be the best action sequence in the series (great music didn't hurt either, in both cases).

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I feel like book 3 manages to miss almost every characters final conflict.

Zuko doesnt beat Azula.

Katara kinda gets a random quest with Zuko.

Aang gets a random cop-out win to his internal struggle.

We didnt really get to see Iroh and the adults wreck shit.

Toph/Sokka/Suki had a great last mission tho.

I feel like only the Zuko field trips (beach episode included) and the play episode were stellar.

Season 2 was great start to finish imo. It helps that it felt more final battle in the eclipse compared to the comet where we didnt really focus on that many heroes.

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cuttin_in_farm posted...

I feel like book 3 manages to miss almost every characters final conflict.

Zuko doesnt beat Azula.

Katara kinda gets a random quest with Zuko.

Aang gets a random cop-out win to his internal struggle.

We didnt really get to see Iroh and the adults wreck shit.

Toph/Sokka/Suki had a great last mission tho.

I feel like only the Zuko field trips (beach episode included) and the play episode were stellar.

Season 2 was great start to finish imo. It helps that it felt more final battle in the eclipse compared to the comet where we didnt really focus on that many heroes.

The eclipse was in book 3
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