Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 382: Kamala Harris has Presidential Powers Today

(+) Yeah! (+)

wang just being a passive aggressive coward is zero surprise

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i'm not sure what's particularly passive aggressive about saying a bunch of you aren't making sense, are always are picking fights, and basically are the asshole here. but you do you~

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GuessMyUserName posted...

wang just being a passive aggressive coward is zero surprise

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Wanglicious posted...

i'm not sure what's particularly passive aggressive about saying a bunch of you aren't making sense, are always are picking fights, and basically are the asshole here. but you do you~

What doesnt make sense? Point it out.

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Haven't read the comments from my little escapade last night, and I will, but before I do I'll point out one thing which is when I saw the headlines and stuff about Chappelle's special that had offended people and I got to searching what he'd said and all that, I mistakenly believed that the bit about Daphne at the end of the special was the entire part about trans people that had been so upsetting. Didn't realize he talked about them throughout the entire thing and I don't know what was said for all of it yet. I've little doubt I said some insensitive stuff just please understand when I said it's difficult for me to sympathize, I thought his story about his trans friend was the entire relevant part that I was responding to.

Nah, that was the *good* part, which was still pretty iffy-at-best in a vaccuum.

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It's alright Pun, I think the reaction from some folks here was pretty extreme, considering the character of some of the users that still regularly post here and are more deserving of such animosity.

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his story about the trans friend was nothing but an "I have a ____ friend" human shielding and making a grotesque false claim to paint her own community as her murderers

He doesn't give the slightest shit about online harassment or what Daphne personally went through - the man saw her a grand total of 2 times, she wasn't a close friend, just someone he was happy to use to give him cover in a professional capacity. If he gave a single fuck about online harassment leading people to suicide he would take note of the fact this a strong issue within the trans community overall due to the transphobic hatred he perpetuates, instead directing anger and hatred towards trans folks by, again *FALSELY* painting a vicious story that trans people got her killed. Trans folk are the ones who have to put up with the shit he incensed with his fans as the news media and his own stans "defend" him online by calling trans people murderers now.

If he cared about what Daphne went through, he would not have made up a story centred entirely around protecting him rather than looking up what's actually going on with her life from losing her job, getting a divorce, losing custody of her child, and yes, being met with transphobia regularly throughout her day to day life. No you don't get to hear any of that story, instead you get something made up that her family outright denies was a factor. That doesn't matter to Dave though, he only had one point to make, to tell trans people to shut the fuck up and he was happy to make up a dangerous story to do it.

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honestly pun, i just read the stuff this morning and found the topic's reaction funny only because you were pretty clearly mixing up a bunch of ideas in your head and people were seeing what they wanted to see as opposed to what you were actually saying or thinking, or getting that this isn't something you talk about a lot even though you basically said that. long story short, your jumbled mess becomes you getting typecasted and put into different tribes immediately which furthered one of your points, though they didn't care because who knows why, chance to be an asshole i guess.

best advice is don't take it too personally. politics topic gonna be politics topic.

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yeah I'mma have to block Wang again

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oh no i'm getting blocked again, this time by a guy claiming that i'm the passive aggressive one, what will i do.


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Puns posting was an extremely textbook say Im left for deniability reaction that weve all seen countless times before from people who are genuinely reactionary, Wang youre only seeing through it now because youre literally that guy.

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Wangergater

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right, so you're typecasting him and putting him into groups as opposed to taking him as how he's always been. it's not like he's new on the board. you could have thought about it. you didn't, so there ya go. you could have thought 'hey, this is a pretty big leap of subjects, maybe there's more' but nope, it's all gonna just be the one thing. plenty of things that would've made more sense than ganging up on the drunk guy who doesn't talk politics but that ain't how things ever work in here.

always fair game to point out when it happens though. occasionally it makes people realize they're at fault and behave just a teeny bit more.

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Don't see most of the issue with Dave Chapelle. He is a comedian after all. If it upsets somebody, his humor isn't likely for you.

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I regret posting that tweet

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dude doesn't want to actually engage in the discussions but bitch and moan about others who do so yeah that's a block

while yeah puns acts out, he's given more that I can actually believe he's just plain ignorant and possibly capable of learning... and I gotta believing a lot of last night was literally just being drunk because that wasn't even coherent

Wang is nothing but a culture warrior who has regularly shown he has not a single thing beyond metacommentary which is why he got so caught up in that THEY CALLED IT AN ACCIDENT non-story Fox was drumming up while using the same terminology they whined about.

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Corrik7 posted...

Don't see most of the issue with Dave Chapelle. He is a comedian after all. If it upsets somebody, his humor isn't likely for you.

The issue is that parts of his recent comedy is literally just repeating reactionary talking points about transgender people with a funny tone.

Not only is it hack shit, but it causes actual harm.

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I give comedians large leeway with jokes aa a man who enjoys a good joke. Saying 'I'm team terf' isn't a joke really so

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Tom Bombadil posted...

Nah, that was the *good* part, which was still pretty iffy-at-best in a vaccuum.

Thanks for this comment. It helps me feel a little better knowing you can at least see why I thought the degree of hooplah was a bit overblown if that's all there was.

I'm still not scrolling up yet, but to the credit of whoever said the right is just as embarrassing to affiliate with as the left, you're absolutely correct. I've been reading a book on media manipulation recently that's had me hyper-aware of the tricks the media uses to misinform - the charged headlines, half truths, etc. So during the past week with Rittenhouse I noticed so many people outraged over things that weren't even true or relevant, and it was starting to grate on me. Truth is, like I said, the right surely gets yanked around every bit as much as the left - it's just I hadn't been hanging out in right circles so I wasn't observing it. My state of mind last night kept me from taking that extra one second to think through my thought before posting to realize that my issue isn't with the left or the right or anyone except the media and the politicians and the powers that be.

Then naturally when y'all grabbed pitchforks I just grabbed another beer and laughed, which, well, ya know

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Ive read this post literally a million times from people who are now MAGA af, might as well just go mask off dude

have you considered that maybe the reason those people "become MAGA af" (in your eyes) is because you push them away the moment they make one post saying "idk i'm left-leaning i just have some concerns"?

Dels posted...

have you considered that maybe the reason those people "become MAGA af" (in your eyes) is because you push them away the moment they make one post saying "idk i'm left-leaning i just have some concerns"?

Hbthebattle posted...

https://twitter.com/drmistercody/status/1020039128291786752?lang=en
still relevant!

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I don't think people should change their opinions on the those topics because people are mean to them, but I think they do. Humans are more emotional than logical. If an entire topic of left-leaning people start treating you like shit, you are inevitably going to start to associate bad feelings with "the left" and will become more biased towards the side that isn't treating you like shit.

That's regrettable but I don't think it should stop us from calling out people who say or do something crappy.

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I really don't care about people who can't take criticism and immediately going to wow you're cancelling me put down the pitchforks

it's pretty simple, if you actually engage with criticism instead of whine cancel culture you'll actually be met with positive discource. otherwise... yeah if you keep showing your ass and ignoring the conversation people are gonna keep calling you out. puns was drunk of course, but you can't blame the other people for him being out of his mind.

there was zero engagement with real points in here - still are, I straight-up gave an incredibly personal experience to explain the issue which gotta completely ignored. if you just respond to low hanging fruit that's what you're gonna get.

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I mean I am obviously very left and I was calling out Rittenhouse takes all week. But it was more 'no one is perfect' and even then my left leaning lawyers knew what was up even if media did not

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Tom Bombadil posted...

That's regrettable but I don't think it should stop us from calling out people who say or do something crappy.

so call it out, but "go believe in your jewish space lasers, MAGA" is not a "call out".

there isn't a single person on this planet who is going to be in the right headspace to listen to your personal experience after being told that. unless they have the maturity/patience of a saint, which is a really high bar most people won't pass.

These topics are also not really even meant to be pillars of discussion. A lot of this is venting about stuff. Lots of good discussion does happen but there's a lot of rage here.

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Why is you made people turn into MAGA idiots! always the argument when it logically falls apart under any scrutiny whatsoever?

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good discussion is completely wasted here as I've pointed out it's constantly ignored to go for low hanging fruit

every damn time I bother making an effort it's for nothing

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Tom Bombadil posted...

That's regrettable but I don't think it should stop us from calling out people who say or do something crappy.

That's all well and good but not really what happened here.

You guys know pun and his posts weren't completely making sense. It's the day after Thanksgiving. Yet somehow people here decided to just attack him even after he explained he was drinking and doesn't talk much politics. Plenty of things could been said or done - or not done - over piling up on him and attributing shit to him that he didn't say or doesn't think. That's all on you guys who did. This is a pretty constant thing the topic has always suffered from, it's just the latest callout of "hey, you're being the asshole, stop being the asshole." For reference, I don't means you specifically here Tom, just others in the 8v1. Though when you see that's what's going on, just back off, you're not helping, just bullying at that point.

Or the snarky tldr, Just because your Thanksgiving sucked doesn't mean take it out on somebody else.

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I will say I know puns well enough not to really go in on him. Don't know if others know him as well to afford him the same courtesy

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Dels posted...

have you considered that maybe the reason those people "become MAGA af" (in your eyes) is because you push them away the moment they make one post saying "idk i'm left-leaning i just have some concerns"?

if they're willing to become literal racists at the drop of a hat I don't really think they were ever left leaning

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drunk dude starts shit gets hit

welcome to literally every day in america

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Im not sure what wasnt making sense about puns argument? He was making rather clear statements: that he didnt find anything wrong with what Chappelle said and didnt sympathize with people that did, that people need to suck it up because comedy is comedy, and that he was embarrassed by people being upset over it.

Today, he clarified that he was not actually aware of what all Chappelle actually said, and that changes things. Last night, though, he was giving pretty clear, definite opinions that were deserving of criticism and questioning his views/values.

He was rightfully pushed back against for what he said. Im not sure what wang is going on about other than trying to play Captain Hindsight.

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GuessMyUserName posted...

good discussion is completely wasted here as I've pointed out it's constantly ignored to go for low hanging fruit

every damn time I bother making an effort it's for nothing

so maybe you are so used to encountering bad people who don't listen, that when you encounter someone who is expressing a view you disagree with / think is ignorant, your bar is now way lower and you immediately assume the same thing is going to happen, so you give them less of a chance

though you also didn't make the comments i was referencing as being too mean/dismissive

Hbthebattle posted...

if they're willing to become literal racists at the drop of a hat I don't really think they were ever left leaning

is turbo willing to become a "literal racist"?!

if you're admittedly ignorant on a situation involving racism/transphobia/bigotry you can always try asking what the problem is instead of jumping to misinterpreting the situation, whining cancel culture instead of listening to criticism, and making inflammatory statements like calling said criticism an embarrassment juxtaposed against right-wing madness.

but again, puns was drunk which wang apparently thinks is our fault

Dels posted...

so maybe you are so used to encountering bad people who don't listen, that when you encounter someone who is expressing a view you disagree with / think is ignorant, your bar is now way lower and you immediately assume the same thing is going to happen, so you give them less of a chance

this now is very true, when every time you try it amounts to being completely ignored so people can go off on personal tangents then yeah at some point you get exhausted and give up

and minorities face this shit all the bloody time particularly now that all criticism gets shouted down as cancel culture, some bullshit rhetoric that just tells people "you can completely dismiss any and all criticism i get because they're all just haters"

All trans content creators I watch now always have to add disclaimers to their critique about how they aren't "cancelling" anyone or don't even find so and so comments personally offensive, as a direct response to trolls always filling up the comments that "i won't let you cancel x!" and whatever dumb snowflake accusation you can think of - which still doesn't work because these people a) don't even watch their critiques or b) don't want to believe them because that ruins their narrative.

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HashtagSEP posted...

He was rightfully pushed back against for what he said. Im not sure what wang is going on about other than trying to play Captain Hindsight.

Can't really blame him, his head's so far up his ass that all he's got is hindsight

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Dels posted...

is turbo willing to become a "literal racist"?!

that is the most common followup I've seen to "I'm leaving the left u guys r meen," I think. I'm inclined to give puns benefit of the doubt and hindsight, but I've rarely seen that kind of argument from somebody who hasn't already gone full alt-right

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Drunk or not, Pun very obviously fired the first shots of aggression by calling an issue people here feel strongly about "embarrassing." No shit people are gonna have a strong negative reaction to that, lmao. So all this hand-wringing about the left pushing people away is even more out of place here.

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Yeah, idk, I've spoken up a few times when I felt some people in here have gone "too hard" on occasion but I don't really think this met that? I think the tipping point in the whole thing happened super early too when GMUN posted that personal story rebutting puns's assertions. If the point was to have a discourse over "Why are people/you all upset about what Chappelle has said?", "How can comedy be harmful?", etc. ...that was it. That was the offramp from one-liners and such to a more nuanced discussion. ...And it was just ignored entirely. So... yeah. Now puns has since said he hadn't heard the full story behind what Chappelle had said, etc. but like I don't think this was "the topic" steamrolling someone and shutting down discussion. The route to a discussion was extended by "the topic" and not taken!

Like I think 99% of the "meta commentary" in this thread is likely unhelpful but since we're determined to rehash it again...

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The real issue about "I'm left-leaning you guys" is that being left-leaning has zero relevance towards issues of bigotry. Dave Chappelle isn't some right-wing conservative, "left-leaning" individuals are perfectly capable of being ignorant towards the issues of racism and transphobia - just ask the UK where TERFism quite clearly crosses political lines.

It's a weak argument to use your "leaning" status as some accreditation of an understanding you quite blatantly do not hold.

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Kenri posted...

My favorite part was how he didn't let students attend unless they locked their phones away

That's been his policy on shows for a while now, I saw him in '17 at the Palladium and had to lock my phone in a little purse
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Tom Bombadil posted...

that is the most common followup I've seen to "I'm leaving the left u guys r meen," I think. I'm inclined to give puns benefit of the doubt and hindsight, but I've rarely seen that kind of argument from somebody who hasn't already gone full alt-right

i feel this could be confirmation bias.

i mean, i think you guys are mean but i do not plan to become alt-right as of now. so there's one for your sample size lol.

GuessMyUserName posted...

if you're admittedly ignorant on a situation involving racism/transphobia/bigotry you can always try asking what the problem is instead of jumping to misinterpreting the situation, whining cancel culture instead of listening to criticism, and making inflammatory statements like calling said criticism an embarrassment juxtaposed against right-wing madness.

well, again, practically speaking, i just don't think that's how people are. in an ideal world, sure. but in reality, most people who "don't get" a topic are just gonna be like "yo i don't get this" because people mostly default to just saying whatever they think. you wanna change that, sure, okay. noble cause. i've gotten into enough shit for doing what turbo did that i've built up the habit of trying to start off a lot more politely but i just don't expect everyone to be there.

like, the very fact that someone "doesn't get" a topic means they also don't get why people would be upset about them saying they don't get it. so it kind of prohibits them from even taking the step of thinking "i should be very careful how i say this". y'know?

but again, puns was drunk which wang apparently thinks is our fault

this now is very true, when every time you try it amounts to being completely ignored so people can go off on personal tangents then yeah at some point you get exhausted and give up

and minorities face this shit all the bloody time particularly now that all criticism gets shouted down as cancel culture, some bullshit rhetoric that just tells people "you can completely dismiss any and all criticism i get because they're all just haters"

All trans content creators I watch now always have to add disclaimers to their critique about how they aren't "cancelling" anyone or don't even find so and so comments personally offensive, as a direct response to trolls always filling up the comments that "i won't let you cancel x!" and whatever dumb snowflake accusation you can think of - which still doesn't work because these people a) don't even watch their critiques or b) don't want to believe them because that ruins their narrative.

i think that's all the more reason not to give people ammunition to support that narrative.

but i guess i'd be a hypocrite because i'm saying "i don't expect people like turbo to act perfectly rationally and politely 100% of the time because of their emotions" so i can't expect you to either.

and you're right, some people will run with the narrative anyway because forces way larger than our control are perpetuating those narratives.

GuessMyUserName posted...

The real issue about "I'm left-leaning you guys" is that being left-leaning has zero relevance towards issues of bigotry. Dave Chappelle isn't some right-wing conservative, "left-leaning" individuals are perfectly capable of being ignorant towards the issues of racism and transphobia - just ask the UK where TERFism quite clearly crosses political lines.

It's a weak argument to use your "leaning" status as some accreditation of an understanding you quite blatantly do not hold.

i agree and i think "i'm left leaning but" should kind of go the way of "i'm not racist but"

i prefer to not try to disclaim things, even if only because the people who would get upset about whatever statement follows, won't care about your disclaimer anyway, so it's not useful anyway.

I semi-defended Chapelle early on after The Closer, in that I interpreted him as ignorant over intentionally inflammatory. I'm pretty much off that stance though. His responses since the special have been awful.

"Comedy is comedy" only really works as a defense for trying to cut through a sensitive issue to find the potential humor in it and help people find common ground. When you fail spectacularly to do that and you're response is indignant over apologetic, you clearly didn't ever care about any of that in the first place.
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Seginustemple posted...

That's been his policy on shows for a while now, I saw him in '17 at the Palladium and had to lock my phone in a little purse

I think it kinda makes sense for shows, but AFAIK he wasn't, like, doing material for the students he was speaking to. It was more of a Q&A/meet & greet type thing. It seems more like he knew he was going to say something bad and wanted to be able to deny it later.

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Dels posted...

in reality, most people who "don't get" a topic are just gonna be like "yo i don't get this"

that is fine, I think- nobody's going after sober "well I seem to not have the full story" puns, they were going after "the left sucks, comedy is cancelled" puns.

the lesson being
GuessMyUserName posted...

if you're admittedly ignorant on a situation involving racism/transphobia/bigotry you can always try asking what the problem is instead of jumping to misinterpreting the situation, whining cancel culture instead of listening to criticism, and making inflammatory statements like calling said criticism an embarrassment juxtaposed against right-wing madness.

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