Board 8 > Giving FFXII another shot.

(+) Yeah! (+)

UshiromiyaEva posted...

This is...the worst final boss design I've ever seen maybe?

What, you don't like the guy using a bunch of scrap yanked from the airship Bahamut to turn himself into a version of the dragon Bahamut?

(I actually have very fond memories of XII but didn't catch that Vayne had done that until the third or fourth time I walked through that ending.)

Oh no I got it, it's a cool idea.

They just failed at it.

Well time to give another game I didn't like a fresh shot: FFX.

still the jrpg benchmark for storytelling

FFX the best.

I mean let's not get too carried away

hallway level design is still bad

pjbasis posted...

still the jrpg benchmark for storytelling

FFX has too much early 2000s jankiness for that. Lots of awkward pauses, canned animations, and weird camera directing at times. Still great but not quite up to modern standards.

pjbasis posted...

hallway level design is still bad

and yet Spira is still the most fully realized world in the series

world maps overrated

pjbasis posted...

still the jrpg benchmark for storytelling

I mean the reason I stopped playing this game 40ish hours in were because the story and characters were so lame.

But that was middle school!

LeonhartFour posted...

and yet Spira is still the most fully realized world in the series

Eorzea my dude, there's no competition whatsoever.

The total script is sever dozen times longer for it though, so not EXACTLY fair.

Think you would ever give FFXI a shot?

Oh absolutely if I could play it! Shame that mobile version isn't coming through. One day I'll have a PC again I'm sure.

The aesthetic of FFX doesn't do much for me (hating the character designs is one of my main beefs with the game, Nomura is a hack), but for people that do like it it's just astounding how much better the presentation is doing with its aesthetic that XII. XII is by FAR my referred aesthetic to an absurd degree, but it's completely wasted. Sure the environments look clean and are way busier, but there's no actual personality at all for almost the entirety of the game, something nobody can claim about FFX regardless of preference.

KamikazePotato posted...

FFX has too much early 2000s jankiness for that. Lots of awkward pauses, canned animations, and weird camera directing at times. Still great but not quite up to modern standards.

Yeah, I find it weird. FFX has some great presentation even as someone who doesn't care too much for the plot and characters, but it's 20 years old! I feel like part of why FFX still carries this reputation is that I can't think of many other JRPGs that go for the same level of ultra-cinematic storytelling that Square-Enix does. And later FF games have...issues.

I think I'd say the modern JRPG benchmark is Yakuza. Even if you don't count the earlier ones as action RPGs, Y7 exists.

FFX second best game of all-time easy

FFX - just an okay game

FF "We recorded Yuna's VA saying 'Yes' one time and then reused that take for every time Yuna says 'yes' in the game" X

I don't actually care about this it's just funny.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

FF "We recorded Yuna's VA saying 'Yes' one time and then reused that take for every time Yuna says 'yes' in the game" X

I don't actually care about this it's just funny.

everybody always dumps on Tidus's voice acting but Yuna's is the real sin

J.A. Taylor as Tidus is good

Also the real Sin is Jecht

I didn't think people dump on Tidus VA that much outside of ha ha ha

But yes Yuna's is atrocious.

Most of the actual VAs in this game are fine, it's just bad direction.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Yeah, I find it weird. FFX has some great presentation even as someone who doesn't care too much for the plot and characters, but it's 20 years old! I feel like part of why FFX still carries this reputation is that I can't think of many other JRPGs that go for the same level of ultra-cinematic storytelling that Square-Enix does. And later FF games have...issues.

I think I'd say the modern JRPG benchmark is Yakuza. Even if you don't count the earlier ones as action RPGs, Y7 exists.

I think the best modern JRPG stories are Nier Automata and Tales of Beseria (off the top of my head), but those also kinda feel like early 2000s games in production values! Berseria moreso than Automata but yeah. Yakuza is a good choice for the one that feels most modern/cinematic.

KingButz posted...

I didn't think people dump on Tidus VA that much outside of ha ha ha

But yes Yuna's is atrocious.

Ha Ha Ha is a good scene, well-acted scene and I'll die on this hill.

KamikazePotato posted...

I think the best modern JRPG stories are Nier Automata and Tales of Beseria (off the top of my head), but those also kinda feel like early 2000s games in production values! Berseria moreso than Automata but yeah. Yakuza is a good choice for the one that feels most modern/cinematic.

Berseria is my gut reaction for the modern jRPG standard for those who can't stomach XIV. I guess Persona 5 as well but that feels wierd to say for some reason. I guess I should say, like....traditional world map jRPG?

Game genres are stupid TBQH.

Xenoblade 2 is for crazy people.

Best modern JRPG story is, uh, hmm...

Probably Trails of Cold Steel III.

If it were a CS it'd certainly be that one!

I'm just saying I haven't been impressed enough with a JRPG story made in the last decade to say "oh yeah that's the best"

Well there's one you refuse to play that's the clear front runner, just sayin' <_<

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Well there's one you refuse to play that's the clear front runner, just sayin' <_<

And I'm quite all right since I don't have as much gaming time as I used to and I don't want to spend multiple years playing a gaming style I dislike just for a good story

I beat it in a month and a half but hey, I play a lot.

It took me like 4 months to beat Cold Steel IV!

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Oh absolutely if I could play it! Shame that mobile version isn't coming through. One day I'll have a PC again I'm sure.

Well theres this thing called a Steam Deck that might run it. You could try getting one of those.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Well there's one you refuse to play that's the clear front runner, just sayin' <_<

I don't care how good the expansions are, the month I spent playing fetch quests in ARR disqualifies it from this discussion

Naw.

KamikazePotato posted...

FFX has too much early 2000s jankiness for that. Lots of awkward pauses, canned animations, and weird camera directing at times. Still great but not quite up to modern standards.

I can concede this but not many jrps make use of their better presentation and directing skills and overall come off worse. Automata is a decent example but the story is a little too out there.

You know what has great story and directing?

The Hack//GU games.

I don't even think Automata has a better story than the original Nier!

I'm in awe at how appreciative I am for standardized treasure chests right now.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Is Basch seriously not going to say anything during this cutscene????

About to fight his brother and he's just standing around like an NPC??

Oh OK he says one random line of no relevance right before the fight starts??

These are some of the things about FF12 that bothers me so much to this day. A very good example of FF12's plot, characters and dialogue being just so head scratchingly bad. Yes Zodiac Age fixed a lot of the slow sections and the structure of the gameplay for the better but the plot is just irredeemable hot garbage that can never be fixed. So unless Square Enix decide to nuke the original game completely like how ARR did to OG FFXIV and remake FF12 from scratch, the game will remain a blight on the series and the beginning of the downward spiral for the mainline entries.

pjbasis posted...

I can concede this but not many jrps make use of their better presentation and directing skills and overall come off worse. Automata is a decent example but the story is a little too out there.

LeonhartFour posted...

I don't even think Automata has a better story than the original Nier!

Let's see what the public has to say about this!

From Lightning Strike's topic series:

Nier Automata - 9.25 (31 votes)
Final Fantasy X - 8.31 (56 votes)

From the B8's Favorite Story poll I held:

1. Final Fantasy X (115 points)
3. Nier Automata (94.5 points)

Score is 1-1. Ignore how a matchup would go on the main site.

Axl_Rose_85 posted...

These are some of the things about FF12 that bothers me so much to this day. A very good example of FF12's plot, characters and dialogue being just so head scratchingly bad. Yes Zodiac Age fixed a lot of the slow sections and the structure of the gameplay for the better but the plot is just irredeemable hot garbage that can never be fixed. So unless Square Enix decide to nuke the original game completely like how ARR did to OG FFXIV and remake FF12 from scratch, the game will remain a blight on the series and the beginning of the downward spiral for the mainline entries.

We can only trust in YoshiP to save us with XVI.

Speaking of which since I just got to it, I'm legitimately surprised that Valefor has straight up no representation yet in XIV. Not a world boss, mount, mob, anything. Seems like an obvious one, I guess it's only a matter of time?

I worry about FF16. Working on a mainline FF game these days is a death sentence for some directors. Cost Square Matsuno with FF12 and Tabata with FF15. Yoshi-P has FF14 to go back to, so I'm not worried that he'll outright quit, but it might be a tough experience for him.

Based on past interviews, a lot of the game is actually already done. YoshiP just refuses to show anything until the game is in a final state with a final date.

Which, you know, is on brand for him. The man broke down in tears live on stream because Endwalker got delayed 2 weeks!

Brotherhood is a cool ass sword NGL.

Brotherhood is a great sword.

FF MC sword ranking

Gunblade > Brotherhood > Blazefire > Buster > Who cares

Definitely not a controversial take for sure, nope.

Lionheart is still the best sword(like weapon) but Brotherhood is top tier for sure

What about Lusos sword?

That's below who cares.