Board 8 > Discussing Mafia Mafia Topic 4 - On Your Knees, Cat

(+) Yeah! (+)

Playerlist

1. Ulti
2. Crescent
3. Sultan
4. Scare
5. Plum
6. Lopen
7.Tidus
8. Ben
9. changmas
10. htaeD
11. Han
12. IGCD
13.Sbell
14.Kirby321
15.Ranagrande
16.Mzero
17.Red

Lopen is King
Lopen has Aegis of the Host Until Day 2
Lopen cannot be King day 2

Also you can edit for minor grammar fixes but if you are caught abusing this its obviously a modkill. I am a monster but grammar errors suck.

Question: If a King reaches a majority before the voting period ends, does the voting period automatically end and the King gets elected (i.e., is it possible to hammer a King election)?

And in the scenario where it comes down to LyLo for town, where the Kingmaker process is dropped in favor of majority rules, can a hammer occur in that situation?

PunishedBen posted...

Not sure. Play it as it comes. But what would be different is that I would be much more wary of scum trying to take the power. And I would value myself being King over a lot of the players. No more liking the idea of electing a tier 4!

I don't get it. How can you say you know you'll play day 1 different when you don't even know what you expect to want in future days? Saying you'd exclude nonsense plays and not want scum to be King shouldn't have to be stated

Requote:

Not electing me King is purely anti-Town.

I mean thats subjective and also not something I could possibly see as a fact.

Here's a question for you - if you are told there's an 80% chance of me getting night killed night 1, then do you think it's suspicious to vote someone else as King so that I can't get protection?

See thats probably something I should have voiced before now
But as the guy who gets killed at night rather often now, I just didn't have the feeling that it was That likely that a town you would get nightkilled immediately. Or rather, I dont think nightkills are that predictable.
Of course I didn't want to be king that much either since I dont trust my own judgment that much.
If I were king I would just have kept it democratic and dull.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Death, pretend you are Town who was given a Night 0 action to give a single night super bulletproof to any player in the game. Who do you use it on?

Use it on yourself...?
Is this even a question? lol

Kirby321 posted...

If you are confirmed town, then yes, that's obviously suspicious.

But you're not confirmed town. You could just as likely be scum. This line of reasoning is very self-centered and doesn't consider the fact that the rest of us don't necessarily trust you.

Well you'll be so happy to see me confirmed Town when I die.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're new, but I'm letting you know that every player in this game, unless their ego is making them act intentionally dumb, is most afraid of me as Town if they are Scum. If Scum can deny protection to me and kill me night 1, then they'll do it.

Kirby321 posted...

Use it on yourself...?
Is this even a question? lol

Like other actions, you can't use it on yourself.

Also, it wasn't in the rules so not your fault, but editing posts is generally not allowed in our games, so keep that in mind for future please.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Well you'll be so happy to see me confirmed Town when I die.

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because you're new, but I'm letting you know that every player in this game, unless their ego is making them act intentionally dumb, is most afraid of me as Town if they are Scum. If Scum can deny protection to me and kill me night 1, then they'll do it.

I don't care if I'm new. Your logic completely falls apart if you're not Town. You could very well be scum or the Independent and manipulating people into thinking you're Town.

If this is the hill you're willing to die on, then you better have an OP Town ability or something to make it worth keeping you safe. This line of reasoning is not conducive to finding scum and is inherently flawed.

In fact, there's no guarantee that you'll be killed Night 1. What if the Mafia decides to spare you to make yourself look suspicious? "Oh, Han didn't die Night 1 but someone else did, so he must be Mafia because otherwise he would've been dead by now if he was Town."

Death, pretend you are Town who was given a Night 0 action to give a single night super bulletproof to any player in the game. Who do you use it on?

Honestly I am not confident in making nightkill predictions like that.
But I suppose you could be one possible target, bit only because I dont think it could do much damage if you were scum.

But again you shouldn't be acting as if I wanted to deprive you of the chance to be a King. Circumstances were just against you. (and by all rights, Lopen should have been king without me doing anything including unvoting)

Btw you still need to answer me about calling me a liar.

It's a little curious that Kirby suggested Death was in an 'evil advisor' role to Lopen when Lopen directly thanked me for helping him rethink how he wanted to handle his Kingship.

Why are you trying to paint Death like that, but ignore that I was influencing Lopen?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Also, it wasn't in the rules so not your fault, but editing posts is generally not allowed in our games, so keep that in mind for future please.

I didn't edit my post, thank you very much. Pretty sure Chris made that declaration because I chose to make a new post to correct a typo instead of editing my post, since I had a feeling edits were not allowed.

I would appreciate if you didn't treat me like a fool just because I'm new :)

Kirby321 posted...

Use it on yourself...?
Is this even a question? lol

I assume he meant to say 'anyone else'

It matters that you're new, because you're the only person who has the excuse.

It is, all things blind, the worst decision not to elect me as King unless you specifically think I am Scum, or that the person you're electing King is going to kill a person you're sure is Scum.

Kirby321 posted...

What if the Mafia decides to spare you to make yourself look suspicious?

Then I'll be King day 2 and lynch Scum and they'll be punished for not killing me.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Like other actions, you can't use it on yourself.

I mean there have been roles that acted otherwise, but no its not the norm

Kirby321 posted...

I didn't edit my post, thank you very much. Pretty sure Chris made that declaration because I chose to make a new post to correct a typo instead of editing my post, since I had a feeling edits were not allowed.

I would appreciate if you didn't treat me like a fool just because I'm new :)

Topic 3 post 163.

You edited your post.

Which post were you saying was edited, Han?

To sum it up
It was not a 'Decision of a King' that moved my vote.
At best I will admit that my unvote might have influenced players thoughts about your chances. But I dont know if eve with 6 votes you could have made it

ScareChan posted...

It's a little curious that Kirby suggested Death was in an 'evil advisor' role to Lopen when Lopen directly thanked me for helping him rethink how he wanted to handle his Kingship.

Why are you trying to paint Death like that, but ignore that I was influencing Lopen?

The "evil advisor" thing was just an overdramatic flair as I mentioned before:

Kirby321 posted...

I agree. That was just a little bit of metaphorical flair, as it reminded me of "evil advisor" type characters in stories to a limited degree lol
But at least you owned up to that mistake instead of going on the defensive. That would've looked a lot worse for sure.

Idk the image I had in my mind was Death being the Escargoon to Lopen's King Dedede. Kinda like a yes-man type deal who still has a bit of rationality to tell when the king is being reckless. In any case, I was trying to make an analogy.

I'll admit that I was initially suspicious of Death there because of that post, but his response has me less on edge, admitting it was a genuine mistake instead of doubling down on it.

And I will be completely honest, I don't remember your interactions with Lopen very well. Let me go back and reread.

Recency bias is an excuse I can buy from Kirby.

htaeD posted...

Btw you still need to answer me about calling me a liar.

??

Han ninja'd me with the answer before I asked

I am not finding what changed in the post

Kirby321 posted...

The "evil advisor" thing was just an overdramatic flair as I mentioned before:

Idk the image I had in my mind was Death being the Escargoon to Lopen's King Dedede. Kinda like a yes-man type deal who still has a bit of rationality to tell when the king is being reckless. In any case, I was trying to make an analogy.

I'll admit that I was initially suspicious of Death there because of that post, but his response has me less on edge, admitting it was a genuine mistake instead of doubling down on it.

And I will be completely honest, I don't remember your interactions with Lopen very well. Let me go back and reread.

I understood what you were suggesting with Death, it just seems very strange to ignore the interactions I had with Lopen last night but still point to Death accusingly, and now calling him a yes man but I believe even in the post in question he was not supportive of what Lopen was doing

ScareChan posted...

Han ninja'd me with the answer before I asked

I am not finding what changed in the post

I just saw that it said "edited" at the bottom, and when reading the post, took note that he made a pun that was then corrected because Ulti didn't vote Lopen for King and assumed that it was it.

I didn't bother looking at the post's history but felt it was worth it to mention, as a courtesy.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Topic 3 post 163.

You edited your post.

Oh shoot I forgot about that one. Looks like I left out two words that I originally meant to include.
I'll concede that was a mistake on my part. I don't think I remembered editing wasn't allowed back in the old Mafia games I used to play until my last post with the grammar mistake.

I'm just more insulted that my actions seem to be undermined just because I'm new, but I apologize for lashing out. I genuinely forgot about that post.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

??

The part where you said 'now this is a lie, Sbell (referencing something Sbell said in the past I presume?)'
When I talked about ties.

I'm not undermining your actions because you're new, I'm explaining to you that's why you don't have the perspective you would need to quite understand what I'm saying.

(also, maybe needling you a little bit for reactions to read you)

Ulti and Scare entered the game vote-kinging me. Yes, anybody could be Scum, but voting anyone over me has that same argument, which makes it negligible unless you just actually think I am that much more Scum than others.

In any case, does anyone actually agree with Han's reasoning for why it's anti-town to not have elected him King?

Kirby321 posted...

In any case, does anyone actually agree with Han's reasoning for why it's anti-town to not have elected him King?

just opening up this topic, notncaught up.

I believe it's anti town to have not elected a king.

oh elected him king ..

nevermind.

I mean he would think that way if he is town.
But I cannot agree no.

htaeD posted...

The part where you said 'now this is a lie, Sbell (referencing something Sbell said in the past I presume?)'
When I talked about ties.

It takes a majority for a King to become King. You can't tie on a majority.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yes, anybody could be Scum, but voting anyone over me has that same argument, which makes it negligible unless you just actually think I am that much more Scum than others.

I agree that anyone is just as likely scum. I just don't agree with you suspecting people because they didn't vote for you specifically. That just strikes me as narrowminded and not town-minded unless people actually agree with you (which doesn't seem to be the case as I recall Crescent and Ben being pretty openly opposed to my initial vote for you).

And as much as I would like to think that my play has pushed me higher on a potential night kill list, I can't think of a team that would not be having Han at the top of their list aside from like... Kirby/Ran/Tidus/...Chang? And I think that in this case Chris rerolls the team because the 4 newest players in an setting like this would not make for a very fun experience

Kirby321 posted...

I agree that anyone is just as likely scum. I just don't agree with you suspecting people because they didn't vote for you specifically. That just strikes me as narrowminded and not town-minded unless people actually agree with you (which doesn't seem to be the case as I recall Crescent and Ben being pretty openly opposed to my initial vote for you).

Well Ben is Scum, and Crescent was probably more annoyed that you just tossed out a vote without having caught up?

And it's not because people didn't vote for me, it's that, when deadline approached, they pushed someone over me. Different situation.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

It takes a majority for a King to become King. You can't tie on a majority.

But I, and many other players (including Lopen) were thinking the King was the player with the most votes, not the one with 9 votes.
Chris had to correct us and give us an extension to make up for our error.
Otherwise we logically wouldnt care about ties no. That is true.

I dont know when it happened, but I recall there being a point where the discussion about shifted into accepting that we wouldnt need 9 votes in total... but I dont know why we thought that now.

I also feel like I should point out that Sultan was the one that enabled Ben
I am not sure what Ben would even have done otherwise

Death, can I ask you a favor?

Shoot

ScareChan posted...

And as much as I would like to think that my play has pushed me higher on a potential night kill list, I can't think of a team that would not be having Han at the top of their list aside from like... Kirby/Ran/Tidus/...Chang? And I think that in this case Chris rerolls the team because the 4 newest players in an setting like this would not make for a very fun experience

Hmm... okay, so Han isn't the only person who thinks he would be at the top of the scum hitlist.
In that case, did you vote for Han as King?

Can you collect the entire King votals? Even those that weren't for Lopen/Han

Kirby321 posted...

Hmm... okay, so Han isn't the only person who thinks he would be at the top of the scum hitlist.
In that case, did you vote for Han as King?

I voted Han as King essentially before I even read any of the game, yes

ScareChan posted...

Can you collect the entire King votals? Even those that weren't for Lopen/Han

Right I did notice a few unvotes were also missed
No idea why we simply didnt treat them as regular votals

Do you have something more than commenting on editing guidelines, Ulti?

htaeD posted...

I also feel like I should point out that Sultan was the one that enabled Ben
I am not sure what Ben would even have done otherwise

Yes, a good point.

When I looked over things, I determined Sultan would only have done such a thing as Scum if prodded to, and still have felt he's rather Townish this game, and I liked his response just this morning on me. Either way, between you three, he was least Scummish.

UltimaterializerX posted...

We need to get rid of the editing rule. Its outdated and this site lets you see the old version of a post anyway. The host could just modkilled if its used for anything but typos.

I agree, and think that we can just consider it as a courtesy to others not to edit posts.

No wait
I am wrong again, and I keep getting it wrong
Ben voted Lopen right Before Sultan did.

ScareChan posted...

It's a little curious that Kirby suggested Death was in an 'evil advisor' role to Lopen when Lopen directly thanked me for helping him rethink how he wanted to handle his Kingship.

Why are you trying to paint Death like that, but ignore that I was influencing Lopen?

Okay, I found what you were talking about. I see that Lopen would not have used Crescent as leverage to make people answer his second batch of questions without your influence, and he did specifically thank you for it. I also recognize that you initially disproved of Lopen's methods until he took your advice.

I do remember all of that, now that I Ctrl + F'd my way through the topic. For that, you're right that calling out Death but not you was hypocritical of me. Heck, Death wasn't even on my radar until Han mentioned him.

Though at this point, the only person on my radar is Ben, just because I know that he knows I'm easy to sway, so I'm just being extra cautious about his actions >.>

Also not sure if I should count ##Vote as a Kingvote
But I guess I can