Poll of the Day > It bugs me how shows will alter a characters appearance when they are exposed...

(+) Yeah! (+)

As the baddie.

A good example is Michael in the Good Place or 001 in stranger things. it's like "oh these characters are now known to be bad, they gotta look menacing now"

There can be some justification for it.

The implication is that their natural inclination is to dress in darker tones, more intimidating style, more egotistical or narcissistic fashion, etc. But if they're pretending to be good they're naturally going to act differently, dress differently, and generally try to pretend to be someone they're not. They'll generally be lighter (or just more subtle), more casual, blending in with whoever they're infiltrating, etc.

So the change to "evil" fashion is just them reverting back to the look they would have had from the beginning if not for the fact that they were afraid it would give them away.

It could also be more complicated than just a good/evil switch. Say you've got a setting where the heroes are teenagers (Buffy, Power Rangers, most anime, etc), and the bad guy is an older character (either naturally in their 20s, or someone older possessing a teenager, or some sort of immortal who looks like a teen but who is actually thousands of years old) who is pretending to be a teen so they can infiltrate the good guys. They're obviously going to try to dress like a teenager as part of their disguise, but once they're revealed and don't need to pretend anymore, they might revert to a more mature look. Maybe even with a comment about how stupidly teenagers dress and how they were annoyed the whole time at having to wear stupid clothes.

Or conversely, you could have a more casual character (good or evil) infiltrating a business where everyone dresses more formally. The infiltrator is naturally going to wear suits and act respectable. But once the reveal comes they'll start dressing down again, and be like "Man, it sure is great to not have to wear suits anymore!"

I think it depends entirely on context whether or not it works. And how overly symbolic or thematic the show is in general. It would probably bother me in some shows, but not at all in others.

And it's definitely kind of dumb in a case where the bad guy isn't necessarily pretending to be good but just doing ambiguous things so the audience doesn't know whether or not they're good or bad. Because the reveal there doesn't actually change anything in-universe, so the bad guys' behavior shouldn't change in-universe.

The characters I mentioned literally went to darker aura within the scene they came out as bad.

Michael looked exactly the same though the entire show

Metalsonic66 posted...

Michael looked exactly the same though the entire show

Rewatch the episode at the end of season one. Tell me his apparence is the same throughout to the end

He makes different facial expressions but doesn't change his outfit or makeup or hair

Metalsonic66 posted...

He makes different facial expressions but doesn't change his outfit or makeup or hair

You should pay attention more to the things you watch.

lol so you got nothing

Rick Grimes got ... grimeier and grimeier to the point where Darryl tried to take him down

I prefer that, because it tells the viewer something without overly explaining it to them. It is the biggest problem I have with modern movies. A 5 minute scene with a character should tell the viewer everything they need to know about them, not half an hour of dialog and backstory. Leave that shit in books. Show, don't tell.

hypnox posted...

The characters I mentioned literally went to darker aura within the scene they came out as bad.

Can't say specifically for those examples because I never watched either show. But you were generalizing the point, and what I said absolutely applies to other instances of that sort of thing in shows and films.

Though as to those two specific examples - don't both of those characters have supernatural powers and/or are literally supernatural beings? With characters like that I'd be comfortable with them literally manifesting "evil" aspects almost automatically as an expression of their powers sort of leaking through. Kind of like the old Star Wars EU assumption that turning to the Dark Side starts to physically corrupt you so it's blatantly obvious visually that "THIS IS THE BAD GUY". Which can again go back to the idea of deliberately hiding versus relaxing your guard - maybe your natural state is having wispy shadows and a creeping sense of dread around you at all times, but while you were trying to hide from the good guys you were deliberately suppressing those effects by sheer force of will. But that sort of thing is tiring, so you're not going to bother doing it once the secret is out and you've been revealed.



Dikitain posted...

A 5 minute scene with a character should tell the viewer everything they need to know about them, not half an hour of dialog and backstory. Leave that shit in books. Show, don't tell.

Done well, you can tell everything you need to know about a character with even a single facial gesture.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RevealingHug
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TraitorShot

Metalsonic66 posted...

Michael looked exactly the same though the entire show

They originally wanted him to wear lots of reds/blacks too, but felt it was too on the nose

It depends on the character. For example, if somebody is wearing glasses to look weaker and they don't need glasses (which sometimes is just a pointless change), it makes sense to get rid of them. You might have somebody walk with a cane to hide their actual physical strength.

In the case of Bleach, I liked Aisen's change after his heel turn because he goes from looking like a meek, professorial type to a bit more badass

And, if the villain has an ability that they're hiding or a true form they're hiding, it makes sense to change a bit after being exposed -- unless they really don't like the other form. (Then there are also cases where the exposure transforms the other character or locks them in their transformation.)

You probably wouldn't like the Phoenix Wright games then

SilentSeph posted...

You probably wouldn't like the Phoenix Wright games then

The character appearance shifts in PW are great tbh

idk I like it. I've definitely seen changes in expressions, how someone holds themselves, when the mask comes off.

(I mean you don't need to go over the top)

Bligh_with_no_T posted...

The character appearance shifts in PW are great tbh

That they are

The one character who heel turns in Tactics Ogre gets a new "I'm crazy and evil" portrait the moment he does.

Count_Drachma posted...

You might have somebody walk with a cane to hide their actual physical strength.

https://youtu.be/XYXXhn9fMYs?t=200



Count_Drachma posted...

Then there are also cases where the exposure transforms the other character or locks them in their transformation.

Like Sauron losing the ability to ever seem "fair" after the destruction of Numenor, where he's pretty much locked into looking like a terrifying badass forever. Or at least whenever he's not basically just a ghost.

Zareth posted...

The one character who heel turns in Tactics Ogre gets a new "I'm crazy and evil" portrait the moment he does.

There's a character in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal who does the same thing.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/e/e7/Melissan_MEL_GDS_Portrait_ToB.png

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/baldursgategame/images/e/e6/Amelyssan_MEL_BAD_Portrait_BG2EE.png

That's far more subtle than Tactics Ogre.
We're talking like, normal dude to wide eyed, open mouthed Joker levels.

Bligh_with_no_T posted...

The character appearance shifts in PW are great tbh

One of my favorite shifts was Aristotle Means

LinkPizza posted...

One of my favorite shifts was Aristotle Means

I'm not familiar with him, but I liked Matt Engarde

Bligh_with_no_T posted...

I'm not familiar with him, but I liked Matt Engarde

Theirs was good, too I love the wine glass he pulls out. And the scar he was hiding. His reveal was pretty good, especially with such high stakes

As for Aristotle Means, he was a professor in Dual Destinies. The one who always says, The end justify the means He looks like this super kind professor at first. Then he moves his hair into a Mohawk, and turns mean And pulls out a chalkboard, as well

What I hate is when the villain seems like some kind of mastermind that has meticulously planned things but then when theres a single thing that they didnt expect they just give up and try to activate some self destruct something or start yelling and smashing things. They basically stop being intelligent or at all composed and just flip out with no backup plan.

Star Trek Into Darkness was really bad about it. Hey Im Khan Ive got this whole brilliant plan but as soon as it doesnt work Im just gonna yell and smash these controls like a baby

VampireCoyote posted...

What I hate is when the villain seems like some kind of mastermind that has meticulously planned things but then when theres a single thing that they didnt expect they just give up and try to activate some self destruct something or start yelling and smashing things. They basically stop being intelligent or at all composed and just flip out with no backup plan.

Star Trek Into Darkness was really bad about it. Hey Im Khan Ive got this whole brilliant plan but as soon as it doesnt work Im just gonna yell and smash these controls like a baby

Psychologically that makes sense. People like that want to believe that they are geniuses and have thought of every contingency plan. When they get proven wrong, they lash out because it is completely inconceivable to them that they got outsmarted.

*cough*Trump*cough*

Zareth posted...

That's far more subtle than Tactics Ogre.
We're talking like, normal dude to wide eyed, open mouthed Joker levels.

Yeah, but that's probably more down to the art style. Anime villains in general tend to be way more over the top.