Poll of the Day > Finally caving and getting a COVID booster today

(+) Yeah! (+)

The only problem? No Janssen. Wtf, America? Why can't you be normal?

At any rate, I'm stuck going with one of the mRNA ones, which means a heavier reaction. I don't know the exact odds for a severe health impact, but I've always had rotten luck so... yeah.

Anyway, I just wanted to say on the off-chance I don't survive (which, I mean, I should because afaik the booster is a smaller dose so the health impact should be milder if something goes wrong, right?) that I liked some of you, didn't like others, and was broadly indifferent to the rest of you. And most of you know which camp you fall into, except there are probably more likes than you think and I imagine some of the indifferent folk think I might dislike them. However, right now there's one poster I really dislike and they know who they are... but do you know who they are? The answer might not surprise you! (Although there are probably a few people who think it's them and they might have good arguments for it.)

So, uh, yeah, I'm just going to finally get that booster I probably should've got a few months ago... although I think I'm coming up on a year since I got my shot so maybe I'm not that far off.

And, honestly, I probably should've run out for the booster when I heard the US was restricting the Janssen again. (Although, in theory, I should have better protection from the combination if I don't have a severe health impact.)

I had zero side effects with Moderna. I'm sure you will survive even if you get some rougher immune response from it.

...oh wait, maybe the Janssen was still an option

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-limits-use-janssen-covid-19-vaccine-certain-individuals

Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has limited the authorized use of the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine to individuals 18 years of age and older for whom other authorized or approved COVID-19 vaccines are not accessible or clinically appropriate, and to individuals 18 years of age and older who elect to receive the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine because they would otherwise not receive a COVID-19 vaccine.

Eh, fuck. I already scheduled an appointment for the other one, though. Uggghhhhh

Count_Drachma posted...

I don't know the exact odds for a severe health impact,

The most "common" severe reaction with the mRNA vaccines is myocarditis, which happens roughly once or twice per 100,000 doses and is quite easily treatable. You're at greater risk of being killed in a car crash on your way to the clinic than by the vaccine.

It's also not surprising that Janssen's mostly off the table. The side effects tend to be more severe and it offers the worst protection of any of the main options (most notably, being virtually useless against Omicron). It's pretty telling that the only circumstances in which the FDA is approving it are cases where the individual won't otherwise get vaccinated: It's better than nothing, but worse than everything else. It'd be fantastic if it worked better, given how much more convenient it is, but unfortunately that's just not how reality worked out.

My pfizer booster gave me worse reactions than my moderna shots. Still though, nothing too crazy and I've been back to normal for months.

I did Pfizer-Moderna-Moderna. First shot did very little, second knocked me out for a day, third made me quite tired but that might also have been the fact that I barely slept that night for unrelated reasons so I'm not 100% sure how much I can blame on it. Anecdotally, it seems like a crapshoot which vaccines/doses cause which reactions. Across all the various permutations and combinations people I know have had, I haven't noticed any clear trend in the reactions aside from the first shot generally being the mildest (and even then, one of my coworkers started with A-Z and that was his worst dose).

adjl posted...

I did Pfizer-Moderna-Moderna. First shot did very little, second knocked me out for a day, third made me quite tired but that might also have been the fact that I barely slept that night for unrelated reasons so I'm not 100% sure how much I can blame on it. Anecdotally, it seems like a crapshoot which vaccines/doses cause which reactions. Across all the various permutations and combinations people I know have had, I haven't noticed any clear trend in the reactions aside from the first shot generally being the mildest (and even then, one of my coworkers started with A-Z and that was his worst dose).

yup. Me and my dad got zero reaction with 3 moderna. My mom and ex were knocked out and my mom got that arm rash thing. /shrug

And my parents did the antibody count tests thing, and even though my dad had no reaction he had the most antibodies (not that we know what this means exactly).

gotta say though, had COVID a few weeks ago and my lungs still kinda suck :/ lung bugs always take me forever to get over, glad I had some vaccines and booster to keep me safe

Update: 8pm, currently alive.

adjl posted...

You're at greater risk of being killed in a car crash on your way to the clinic than by the vaccine

Oh, great, ANOTHER thing to worry about because the US can't pass common sense alcohol control laws.

adjl posted...

The side effects tend to be more severe

Generally no, unless you mean the ultra-rare fatality which afaik only ever impacted women.

Other than a metallic taste for about a week, I didn't have much of an impact from the Janssen. And I only went with the Janssen finally because my brother had zero impact from it whereas some of my cousins got sick from the Pfizer and Moderna. The people I saw who had bad reactions to the Pfizer vaccine were a big reason I delayed getting any vaccine originally (plus I was working remotely by that point anyway).

adjl posted...

It's pretty telling that the only circumstances in which the FDA is approving it are cases where the individual won't otherwise get vaccinated:

A lot of those things are politically driven, so I take it with a grain of salt.

Side-note: Having a slightly harder time breathing, but I'm not sure if it's significant or whether it's just psychological.

...and then when I was typing that, I realized I forgot to breathe for a minute.

Count_Drachma posted...

And I only went with the Janssen finally because my brother had zero impact from it whereas some of my cousins got sick from the Pfizer and Moderna.

adjl posted...

Anecdotally, it seems like a crapshoot which vaccines/doses cause which reactions. Across all the various permutations and combinations people I know have had, I haven't noticed any clear trend in the reactions aside from the first shot generally being the mildest (and even then, one of my coworkers started with A-Z and that was his worst dose).

It's variable enough that a sample size like yours doesn't mean much of anything (nor mine, except to conclude that it's too variable to identify trends from anecdotal evidence). It's understandable that you'd follow that rationale, since humans are innately pretty bad at risk analysis and tend to place way too much value on personal experiences/close anecdotes, but it's really not a sensible way to make decisions like this.

Count_Drachma posted...

A lot of those things are politically driven, so I take it with a grain of salt.

I think it's more that you decided from day one that Janssen was your favourite and have been aggressively championing it and rejecting any criticisms ever since. Remember how insistent you were that the early evidence of blood clots must have been from that one instance of cross-contamination with A-Z, despite there not being a shred of proof of that being the reason (in a situation that would have generated pretty conclusive proof, since those monitoring side effects would have noticed if every single Janssen vaccine that caused blood clots came from the contaminated lots)?

I'm not sure why you've been cheerleading so hard for it, but the reality is that Janssen is a bottom-tier option by pretty much every metric except ease of storage, a reality that's only gotten worse with Omicron.

I had a bad reaction to the first booster shot, enough that I planned on skipping any more.

I forgot though, and ended up getting the second booster shot a bit over a month ago, and had a really bad reaction to it.

The first booster shot was primarily bad due to it setting off spasms in my right arm (where I got the shot). i also got the flu shot in the other arm at the same time. I did have a fever and chills as well, but the spasms in my arm set off my back and that was extremely painful, so what I focused on.

When they offered me the second booster shot I told them about my reactions but only mentioned the spasming and the nurse said that was normal and just to rotate the arm a bunch after the shot and it should avoid the spasms.

It did, but, I got MUCH worse chills and fever and it lasted for 30 hours. I hate hospitals and still almost went to the ER. I called once it was over and described everything to them (they take notes of bad reactions) and had them put it on my chart to not get another shot in case I forget (I have a tendancy to forget bad experiences).

I'm one of the only people I know who got the 4th shot already (an uncle of mine and one friend did but had no negative reactions), so it's probably not very common, but damn did it suck.

Anyway sounds like your doing ok which is great:)

Update: 1am, still alive. A lot of coughing. Scratchy throat. Breathing roughly the same as during the last update -- worse than usual, but not severe. Lightheadedness continues to be an issue. No exhaustion. Mild pain at the injection site, but that's predictable. Feels a bit worse than what I remember the Janssen being, but it could just be a recency bias. Don't think I've had any reduction in taste.

adjl posted...

It's variable enough that a sample size like yours doesn't mean much of anything (nor mine, except to conclude that it's too variable to identify trends from anecdotal evidence). It's understandable that you'd follow that rationale, since humans are innately pretty bad at risk analysis and tend to place way too much value on personal experiences/close anecdotes, but it's really not a sensible way to make decisions like this.

I looked at the overwhelming number of results, all of which pointed to Janssen having a far lower impact -- and I thought you even acknowledged that the time, then justified it by suggesting it meant the Janssen did less good.

adjl posted...

Remember how insistent you were that the early evidence of blood clots must have been from that one instance of cross-contamination with A-Z, despite there not being a shred of proof of that being the reason (in a situation that would have generated pretty conclusive proof, since those monitoring side effects would have noticed if every single Janssen vaccine that caused blood clots came from the contaminated lots)?

AZ was ALREADY noted as having those issues abroad and the two were being produced in the same facility when Janssen started getting going. Considering you had something with a known health impact being produced in the same, it wasn't much of a leap. Does it all tie back into that? It was never confirmed. But the time, it certainly seemed plausible. My other suspicion at the time, given all of the deceased were women within a certain age bracket, was that it could be an interaction with birth control, but I don't think anything was ever found (if it was looked for).

adjl posted...

I think it's more that you decided from day one that Janssen was your favourite and have been aggressively championing it and rejecting any criticisms ever since. [...]

I'm not sure why you've been cheerleading so hard for it, but the reality is that Janssen is a bottom-tier option by pretty much every metric except ease of storage, a reality that's only gotten worse with Omicron.

More like Pfizer was being championed for political ends. Bear in mind Pfizer scored massive points with the Biden administration for its decision to not announce a vaccine until after the 2020 election (which it acknowledged as being politically motivated, but laughably suggested it was a non-partisan move when it clearly benefited one side and hurt the other). Considering COVID was a major concern in 2020, that announcement could've shifted the election. And now, unsurprisingly, Pfizer is being pushed as the gold standard.

Update: 4pm the next day, still alive. I have intermittent shivering, a cough (which I think is still the throat issue), and muscle soreness across my entire body -- feels worse than any illness I've had in over a decade. Breathing is still shallower than normal, but not noticeably worse than previous updates. However, the arm soreness has become much more severe -- I feel extreme pain whenever I move it (and, honestly, I barely remembered an impact form the J&J)

If I do another booster down the road, I'm definitely not trying a mRNA one. This is pretty fucking awful. I really shouldn't have done it on a Thursday because it's been so bad I've debated taking a sick day and I'm not sure the last time I took a sick day (although there've been days when I *should* have taken a sick day).

Count_Drachma posted...

I looked at the overwhelming number of results, all of which pointed to Janssen having a far lower impact -- and I thought you even acknowledged that the time, then justified it by suggesting it meant the Janssen did less good.

The overwhelming results now (that is, based on a year and a half of data, including the entirety of what pertains to the now-dominant strain) indicate that it's considerably less effective than alternatives. I don't have to infer anything about Janssen doing less good. That's been exhaustively measured.

Count_Drachma posted...

AZ was ALREADY noted as having those issues abroad and the two were being produced in the same facility when Janssen started getting going. Considering you had something with a known health impact being produced in the same, it wasn't much of a leap.

It's absolutely a leap. For there to be any chance that the cross-contamination was to blame, all of the observed blood clots would have to be from the contaminated lots. These things have been meticulously tracked, with correlations between lot numbers and side effects being one of the biggest things people look for. If that had been the case, those tracking side effects would have noticed that correlation and announced that as the most likely cause before the blood clot issue were even reported in the first place.

You had zero reason to jump to the conclusion you did, as I've explained to you on multiple occasions.

Count_Drachma posted...

but laughably suggested it was a non-partisan move when it clearly benefited one side and hurt the other

Quite the contrary: Releasing the vaccine before the election would have been a partisan move, because that would have specifically benefited Trump (whose bungling of the Covid response was a major factor in his defeat). By releasing it afterwards, they didn't benefit anyone in particular because the election was over (or if anyone did benefit, it would be the yet-undecided victor of the election, and that variability means it was a non-partisan benefit).

Count_Drachma posted...

Bear in mind Pfizer scored massive points with the Biden administration

The Biden administration has little to no influence over other countries' drug regulation agencies, and other countries' drug regulation agencies have also been finding that Janssen is considerably less effective than mRNA options. Pfizer's also not the only one the FDA is recommending, so...

Count_Drachma posted...

If I do another booster down the road, I'm definitely not trying a mRNA one.

Again, personal experience is pretty useless when it comes to analyzing risks. Especially if this is only your second shot (I can't say I remember if you ever had one beyond the first J&J), since as variable as they are, the most consistent thing about Covid vaccine side effects has been that the general malaise is usually quite a bit worse for subsequent shots than the first one. There's very little reason to believe that the choice of an mRNA option is the reason for your current state, rather than other factors (including plain dumb luck).

But yes, I do recommend getting it on a Friday afternoon/Saturday morning, unless you want the sick day. I've made a point of scheduling all my doses like that.

Update: 9:30 pm, still alive. Shivers and dizziness have gotten progressively worse. Some difficulty walking as a result. Cough remains (possibly worse), breathing still a mild problem. Mild bouts of confusion. Arm soreness has reached the point I have difficulty moving it in certain directions. Overall aches and pains remain. At this point, I think this is worse than any illness I've had in over twenty years (excluding maybe stomach problems that were only an issue in one specific regard).

Seriously regretting not just canceling the appointment and scheduling one for the Janssen.

Also, I'm too out of it to respond to the previous posts, which I'll have to do tomorrow... well, assuming I'm in any condition to do so. I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to ride these symptoms out or go to the hospital, and my lousy GP doesn't have weekend hours (I really need a new doctor)

if you can see this post, i'm legitimately glad for you

Count_Drachma posted...

Update: 4pm the next day, still alive. I have intermittent shivering, a cough (which I think is still the throat issue), and muscle soreness across my entire body -- feels worse than any illness I've had in over a decade. Breathing is still shallower than normal, but not noticeably worse than previous updates. However, the arm soreness has become much more severe -- I feel extreme pain whenever I move it (and, honestly, I barely remembered an impact form the J&J)

I had the J&J, and it kicked my ass the whole next day. No sickness, but every bone and muscle ached like hell. I would prefer COVID. All it did was make me really drowsy for a few days.

Count_Drachma posted...

well, assuming I'm in any condition to do so. I'm not sure whether I'm supposed to ride these symptoms out or go to the hospital, and my lousy GP doesn't have weekend hours (I really need a new doctor)

Honestly, that sounds fairly normal. For my second shot, I was fine for ~23 hours, then very rapidly devolved to the point of shivering violently while crouching in front of the toilet because I felt like I was going to puke. The nausea passed, but the shivering kept going for a while and pretty much my whole body was aching. I ended up falling asleep on the couch for like three hours, which helped a bit, but I still felt awful for a solid 24 hours once the symptoms kicked in. Then they passed, and I was just extra tired and a little achy for the next few days.

My girlfriend ended up out of commission for a full week with the general malaise, which is unusual, but not unheard of. If you're still experiencing these symptoms after 2-3 days, maybe then you might want to call a doctor, but anything up to a week isn't particularly concerning, and I don't think you'll need to go to emergency unless you have any of the more severe symptoms (fever over 100, seizures/loss of consciousness, shortness of breath/chest pain).

I got Pfizer-Pfizer-Pfizer. I now have COVID. I got sick from the second and third shot, but the COVID is worse than them. So I guess hopefully they did their job and made it less severe than it could've been?

dragon504 posted...

My pfizer booster gave me worse reactions than my moderna shots. Still though, nothing too crazy and I've been back to normal for months.

The only person I know who had issues was someone who had a J&J shot with a Moderna booster.

I was perfectly fine in every way with a Pfizer shot and booster, and my 77-year old mother was more or less fine from the shot but had minor aches and chills for a day or so after the booster.

TC how do you feel

Lynyrd_Skynyrd posted...

TC how do you feel

Still pretty awful. Most of the symptoms haven't improved much. Debating scheduling an appointment with my doctor so I can yell at him for repeatedly suggesting I get a booster.

idk, if it's still this bad in a few days, I'll have to see somebody about it. This is insane, though. My arm has finally swollen at the injection site. Before it was just a lot of pain but I wasn't seeing anything there.

Wound up taking my first sick day in... maybe ever? idk, I don't really ever take sick days.

Count_Drachma posted...

Debating scheduling an appointment with my doctor so I can yell at him for repeatedly suggesting I get a booster.

Would you prefer that your doctor didn't advise you according to the best available data on the benefits and risks of a given medical treatment? It's probably not a bad idea to book an appointment to investigate the possibility of an allergy or other exacerbating factor and/or see if anything can be done to treat your symptoms, but your personal experience doesn't change the conclusion that any sensible risk analysis would yield (that getting the booster is better than not). You rolling a 1 doesn't mean there aren't 19 other numbers on the die.

adjl posted...

Would you prefer that your doctor didn't advise you according to the best available data on the benefits and risks of a given medical treatment?

In this case, it was an unnecessary procedure.

adjl posted...

It's probably not a bad idea to book an appointment to investigate the possibility of an allergy or other exacerbating factor and/or see if anything can be done to treat your symptoms,

Possibly. Even though the breathing isn't as bad, I can barely move that arm, among other issues.

adjl posted...

your personal experience doesn't change the conclusion that any sensible risk analysis would yield (that getting the booster is better than not).

I was never at risk, so it was a waste regardless. These days I work remotely, try to limit my contact, and have most things delivered. Ironically enough, the only three times I've had to leave the house so far this year are for are the fucking doctor appointment, the bloodwork proceeding it, and the booster. And all three of those experiences turned out badly and my health would've been better for not doing them.