Board 8 > Final Fantasy XVI Trailer

(+) Yeah! (+)

When it comes to battle systems I also really the out of battle menu fiddling. I LOVE setting all my materia/junctions/and shit while planning out "builds". Action games only demand you be good at action. I never paid attention to my equipment in XV

UshiromiyaEva posted...

I actually wasn't a fan of this!

Yeah it's a little too "match the shapes" for me.

Strife2 posted...

My main issue is not Square Enix trying action or weird special shit is bad. I just spent 10 games (or more counting X-2) doing turn based or ATB. You can see Square developers straining against the confines of it over and over. I think the guy who make Secret of Mana left FF4's development for said reason.

But just make different franchises of you want to try things. Persona is more life sim, SMT isore combat focused. Same or similar teams, but both viable. They even made Catherine because "lol let's do a QBERT game!". Judgment has Yakuza's brawler combat so it's not like the people wanting it will never have old Yakuza stuff again.

I just feel FF is left to be the standard bearer for "we always try new shit, so shut up and fucking deal." Rather than using spinoffs to do that. It's like they forced Bravely games down the old school path, and then get surprised that the games they excelled at for 15 years still had an audience.

KH has a giant audience, and they are not FF at all. Just make new IPs if you want to Stranger it up

With this mentality, FF7 never gets made. Neither does FF10. Both were huge departures from the games that came before them.

X is my favorite battle system in the series, although Remake's battle system with more than four characters in future games could give it a run for its money.

Dangit. Just released "FF should stay the same forever" while praising Yakuza for having the balls to change to turn based....

Way to fuck up my own point.

FF was changing its battle system significantly even before the shift away from turn-based combat, its just that action RPGs became much more viable allowing them to shift when they did. The series has always been flexible.

And Square has games in that style, the Team Asano games! Or Tokyo RPG Factory, remember them?

https://twitter.com/finalfantasyxvi/status/1532746680516300802

helloooooo nurse

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Also having the favored enemy system but also no backline EXP gain is a completely contradictory design goal and I absolutely hate it.

There's a mod that fixes this!

FFX has my favorite combat in the series too. Also I love devil may cry so I am excited for this!

Also I don't care what any people play at the end of the day but being called an asshole for making like 3 posts with only one really being a suggestion is kind of like that meme with the guy with question marks and a tilted head.

I have beaten ffx like 7 times and I have been thinking about going through it again on the switch just for fun. It's a masterpiece and remains my favorite mainline offline ff!

Also Garuda is hello nurse for sure hah. Great character design.

ninkendo posted...

https://twitter.com/finalfantasyxvi/status/1532746680516300802

helloooooo nurse

Badass.

I like that artstyle a lot more than how it comes across in game.

Leaving turn based behind is just a pure business decision. Witcher 3 sold 40 million. BotW is closing in on 30 million. Skyrim did 30 million in 2016 and probably way higher now. Turn based games don't sell anywhere close to this.

I imagine the elevator pitch for XVI is basically let's make Witcher 3 with DMC combat and give it a FF skin to keep existing fans happy.

squexa posted...

Leaving turn based behind is just a pure business decision. Witcher 3 sold 40 million. BotW is closing in on 30 million. Skyrim did 30 million in 2016 and probably way higher now. Turn based games don't sell anywhere close to this.

I imagine the elevator pitch for XVI is basically let's make Witcher 3 with DMC combat and give it a FF skin to keep existing fans happy.

Pokemon sword and shield sold over 22m copies

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Pokemon sword and shield sold over 22m copies

To be fair the entire internet didn't stop talking shit about how stale that had gotten when that game came out to the point where being able to throw the ball in the next game was a REVOLUTION.

ninkendo posted...

https://twitter.com/finalfantasyxvi/status/1532746680516300802

helloooooo nurse

Retweet to scare Nomura.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

To be fair the entire internet didn't stop talking shit about how stale that had gotten when that game came out to the point where being able to throw the ball in the next game was a REVOLUTION.

Internet was wrong. Games were fun tbh

I did not like SwSh <_<

First 4 or 5 gyms of content were fun but after that pthhhhhh

I do only play pokemon game for the front to back story and never touch them after that, though, so the competitive people have a different take in sure.

But hey I couldn't even force myself to beat Arceus, so technically I stuck with the old hat longer than the shake up on that one!

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Pokemon sword and shield sold over 22m copies

Pokemon's sort of in its own category and an isolated case in terms of success.

Meanwhile, Yakuza 7 switched from action to turn based combat and became the best selling game in the series.

Pokemon is the same thing every time. And I gladly buy it for that. It's worth the cover price for me to build a new team and see a new world. If I want super interesting ones I play Rom hacks.

Mac Arrowny posted...

Meanwhile, Yakuza 7 switched from action to turn based combat and became the best selling game in the series.

This is probably due to it being a soft reboot and the snowball effect of the series taking off more than anything to do with the actual gameplay style. I think Judgement and Lost Judgement are doing very well for similar reasons, although I don't know the direct numbers for comparison.

modern Pokemon's problems aren't about its battle system

Turn based has an audience, but it's definitely smaller outside of Pokemon being on its own island.

Meh market trends are just market trends.

I think being the only AAA budget game with turn based gameplay (that's still very dynamic and sells the illusion of action) would do still do great. Can even still be open world!

https://twitter.com/Larryzaur/status/1532702546439159808

It's also worth mentioning that Legends Arceus is still a turn-based game. There's a lot of cool stuff around the edges that makes it feel different though.

And yeah, as someone else mentioned earlier, it was a bit disappointing that FFXV's out of battle menu-based systems were so bland. FFXIV was pretty good in that respect, so hopefully that carries over for XVI, though mixing action-based with RPG elements can be tricky sometimes. It works great, in, say, Diablo, but the RPG elements of God of War 2018 all made the game worse.

pjbasis posted...

When it comes to battle systems I also really the out of battle menu fiddling. I LOVE setting all my materia/junctions/and shit while planning out "builds". Action games only demand you be good at action. I never paid attention to my equipment in XV

good post that should be highlighted. the problem with going full action isn't that it stops being turn based, but that it loses a lot of this

I hate sorting equipment all the time lol. Swapping classes and commands or whatever is fine, but accessories and stuff like that gets so annoying for me.

Having said that, I do like turn-based combat!

Managing Materia, Junctions, etc. is tons of fun IMO. FF7R keeping Materia was nice, though it wasn't as deep as in the original.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Also I don't care what any people play at the end of the day but being called an asshole for making like 3 posts with only one really being a suggestion is kind of like that meme with the guy with question marks and a tilted head.

Sorry, that was rude. I shouldn't have said that.

Everyone being civil again.

Urianger would be proud.

Mac Arrowny posted...

Managing Materia, Junctions, etc. is tons of fun IMO. FF7R keeping Materia was nice, though it wasn't as deep as in the original.

Sorry, that was rude. I shouldn't have said that.

Apology accepted, all good. Caught me off guard.

I love most final fantasy battle systems tbh. 9 is great with a speed up...!

pjbasis posted...

Meh market trends are just market trends.

I think being the only AAA budget game with turn based gameplay (that's still very dynamic and sells the illusion of action) would do still do great. Can even still be open world!

I mean you're kind of bumping up against the issue here which is that AAA games takes tons of money to make which pushes them towards market trends. The thing that lets FF continue to feel fresh and creative despite being pushed towards a mass audience is the willingness to experiment while they do so. Not that it always works out! Another issue here is that Square historically dumps tons of budget and sets unrealistically high expectations for projects that cause even reasonable successes to be a "disappointment."

Also I don't really care to debate what exactly is and isn't "AAA" (game budgets are too opaque) but Persona 5, Yakuza 7, and Dragon Quest all have a fair amount of budget behind them as well so I don't think it's exactly unique on that front. I also think FF spends WAY more on marketing than these other series

One of the best things FFVIII did was allowing you to swap all your Junctions without having to reassign anything

I thought about it more, and I don't think FF is different than a Castlevania or a Mega Man game changing tack. Castlevania made a wholesale change in 97 that was massively well received, but I bet because I started with SOTN first, that was my normal, not the platformers that preceded it.

But think. FFXII time is what MMX7 or the like must be. Completely wholesale changes that completely fell flat and we're utter failures. XII is a better designed game than X7, but still. The complete overhaul in design is striking. XII was never MY kind of game. I'm fighting against a current that remembers what the old FFs were, not what they are trying to be now.

That hurts my view. As does Square's reputation being iffy. Like Sonic Team, they can't leave well enough alone and change all the time, even when the good games present themselves.

Again, Square's game design is better than Sonic Team, but a mix of wholesale change of series format (Castlevania-like), to Square's output being....hit and miss (Sonic) leaves me less than enthusiastic, almost antagonist to Square, rather than favorable.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I mean you're kind of bumping up against the issue here which is that AAA games takes tons of money to make which pushes them towards market trends

This is probably the most salient reason why I should stick with other franchises if I want to get my turn-based kicks and stop expecting FF to be anything other than what it currently is. It's just too big.

Everyone should just play Triangle Strategy instead

Dragon Quest XI and Persona 5 are both top ten jrpgs of all time released in the last 5 years so the niche is still there thankfully. I have a backlog that I will get to (including trails I swear to God I will marathon that series and it might be this summer since my gaming docket is kind of cleared up)

The early rumblings seemed to indicate that DQ12 would be changing things up in some way. I'd legit sympathize with all these turn-based fans if they do since that's really the last AAA bastion they have left.

I've been pushing 30-45 BPM on FF for a long time now so I'm looking forward to nice relaxing slow paced DMC style combat.

Xiahou Shake posted...

The early rumblings seemed to indicate that DQ12 would be changing things up in some way. I'd legit sympathize with all these turn-based fans if they do since that's really the last AAA bastion they have left.

As the biggest dragon quest fan boy ever (we literally got dqv hero into a contest I love you all) I am fine with this. I largely trust the team to do something amazing. Nothing can take away my 30 years of memories and what the series has meant to me. Dragon quest is stupidly and horrifically maybe why I got through some of the worst periods of my life and even if 12 sucks I will always be thankful for everything surrounding it.

I think people overestimate the need for aaa titles tbh. Dragon quest has always been about soul and many smaller games can have that same soul.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dragon Quest XI and Persona 5 are both top ten jrpgs of all time released in the last 5 years so the niche is still there thankfully. I have a backlog that I will get to (including trails I swear to God I will marathon that series and it might be this summer since my gaming docket is kind of cleared up)

Might be shallow but FF was the only jrpg that doesn't go for straight anime graphical styles. Not that I dislike how those particular franchises look, but it was one of the draws for me.

pjbasis posted...

Might be shallow but FF was the only jrpg that doesn't go for straight anime graphical styles. Not that I dislike how those particular franchises look, but it was one of the draws for me.

I feel like to be fair anime went in the dragon quest style more than dragon quest went anime lol

Honestly DQ doesn't even count. Toriyama style is goated and I want a jrpg with Oda designs one day.

Shallow time: I don't like Dragon Quest's artstyle and that's one of the main reasons I've never given it a shot. (shallow reason #2: the music)

andylt posted...

Shallow time: I don't like Dragon Quest's artstyle and that's one of the main reasons I've never given it a shot. (shallow reason #2: the music)

The music. Wtf lol

andylt posted...

I don't like Dragon Quest's artstyle

Wow, I can't believe andy would dismiss Chrono Trigger like that.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

The music. Wtf lol

The actual music QUALITY is a real issue for the original release of DQXI. And then you have the issue where Sugiyama himself is a disgusting excuse for a human being.

I like CT but not for its character art, so sure!

And yeah I know people rave about the music but nothing I've heard has grabbed me, especially the main theme. TBF the only DQ I've actually played is a demo of XI, and I know even fans think the music there is meh, so maybe that one's unfair.

UshiromiyaEva posted...

Sugiyama himself is a disgusting excuse for a human being

Was; he passed away back in September.

For those just arriving that don't want to read 200 posts, here's the new XVI news:
https://twitter.com/mitsukianatoshi/status/1532490551379087377