Current Events > Get away drivers convicted of murder. When cop kills fellow cop.

(+) Yeah! (+)

This isn't saying they get away drive was a innocent sole. But he was innocent of murder.

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1537548250349191176

Like I can see how they might be trying to suggest he was the cause of the situation that ended in a death, therefore responsible for it, but this would be a really weird precedent because it would mean if a crime is currently happening police officers would be able to kill people and get it pinned on them. This is stupid. People can see this is stupid, I hope.

31Veteran posted...

Like I can see how they might be trying to suggest he was the cause of the situation that ended in a death, therefore responsible for it, but this would be a really weird precedent because it would mean if a crime is currently happening police officers would be able to kill people and get it pinned on them. This is stupid. People can see this is stupid, I hope.

It's already been precedent for a long time that if anyone dies while you're committing a felony, you get charged with their murder. Hope this scumbag enjoys prison.

He's not an innocent man, but I have always hated this law. Cops love to shove blame on others any chance they get. The cop that shot his coworker should have to face some kind of punishment too

This is why I wish we could destroy Police Unions. They allow cops to get away with anything.

Isn't this literally "Look what you made me do!"?

Put the man away for whatever crime he did commit, but he had nothing to do with a cop shooting another cop.

it just seems like a really good way for a cop to actually murder someone by tricking someone into committing a crime somehow where they know someone they want to kill is and then accidentally on purpose killing that person and then the guy they set up takes the fall, a perfect crime. It's a murder mystery waiting to be written.

I could see the case if the guy was having a shot out with the cops. But he wasn't. His was outside.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



That's the excuse, yes.

But if I shot at a purse snatcher in a crowd and shot an innocent person, who gets charged with murder?

Hint: I'm not a cop.

There have been cases where only a robber dies, and the surviving robbers get charged with murder

I bet the cop who pulled the trigger even had the gall to show up to the dead officers funeral and offer condolences to the family.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



Why am I being charged? I wouldn't have shot someone if not for the purse snatcher!

...Or is that a stupid ass excuse and I should be held responsible for my own actions, just as the purse snatcher in this hypothetical should be held responsible for theirs?

Null_Gain posted...

I bet the cop who pulled the trigger even had the gall to show up to the dead officers funeral and offer condolences to the family.

And the family of the dead, probably accepted the condolences. If they are brought up in cop culture

I however would tell them to get the fuck out

ThePrinceFish posted...

It's already been precedent for a long time that if anyone dies while you're committing a felony, you get charged with their murder. Hope this scumbag enjoys prison.

With any luck there will be a guy on the jury who will practice nullification and refuse to convict. If I was on the jury, I would never in a million years vote to convict for felony murder. it pisses all over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

I dont understand TCs fake confusion.

Im not even American and I know what felony murder is.

ThePrinceFish posted...

It's already been precedent for a long time that if anyone dies while you're committing a felony, you get charged with their murder. Hope this scumbag enjoys prison.

Yup. Don't commit felonies, kids. Or do, and risk ending up like this bag of shit.

BurmesePenguin posted...

I dont understand TCs fake confusion.

Im not even American and I know what felony murder is.

It's not confusion.

It's a stupid fucking law.

I dont know the specifics but this is one scenario in general Im OK with. Again not knowing the specifics of this particular incident, but the cop didnt have to be shooting criminals if they werent there committing crime. They are the ones to blame for creating the scenario where the cop had to shoot. Its the same as if theres a high speed pursuit and a cop crashes and dies or crashes into some other traffic. In that case the one they were chasing is to blame

Cops are so bad at their jobs its astounding

Maybe dont be a getaway driver?

DarthAragorn posted...

It's not confusion.

It's a stupid fucking law.

No, TC was clearly feigning confusion.

As for the concept itself Im ambivalent towards it. Only the person who pulled the trigger in the Ahrmaud Arbery case would have been convicted of murder without it and I dont think a lot of people would find that okay.

ThePrinceFish posted...

It's already been precedent for a long time that if anyone dies while you're committing a felony, you get charged with their murder. Hope this scumbag enjoys prison.

The fact that something stupid has always been done is not a good argument for why it should continue to be done.

Shablagoo posted...

The fact that something stupid has always been done is not a good argument for why it should continue to be done.

I didn't say it should be done because it's precedent. I was responding to the other poster saying this would establish a precedent. Obviously it should continue to be done because if you commit a felony, you are culpable for the terrible situation you have created. Any life that is lost is lost because of what you have done. Again, hope this piece of shit enjoys the fruits of his labor.

Eh

dont help commit felonies in states with felony murder laws

Maybe don't commit a felony next time in a state with felony murder laws on the books?

Stupid fucking conviction. Also, love to see the posters in this thread giving shit to a dude sitting in a car and not, you know, giving shit to the cop that killed the other cop.

Keep boot licking.

Ive never been in favor of this law Its pretty dumb Yes, he should go to jail, but only for the actual crime he committed Not for the officers mistake

As long as the accidental killings are not done in extreme negligence, seems perfectly fair for those perpetuating the crime to be charged. There are such things as accidental justifiable deaths in a situation like that. There are also cases where cops just blatantly fuck up and try to pass the buck onto someone else. The thing to worry about is if a proper investigation into it actually happened.

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Don't commit crime if you aren't willing to risk losing everything.

Without felony murder laws, many murder cases that involve groups of people might go unsolved. For example if three people rob a store and one of them shoots the clerk, it may be impossible to prove exactly which one shot. Felony murder laws help to avoid this situation by assigning blame to all three for participating in the original felony anyway.

ThePrinceFish posted...

I didn't say it should be done because it's precedent. I was responding to the other poster saying this would establish a precedent. Obviously it should continue to be done because if you commit a felony, you are culpable for the terrible situation you have created. Any life that is lost is lost because of what you have done. Again, hope this piece of shit enjoys the fruits of his labor.

Nah, Im sure there are situations where applying this law makes sense but using it to absolve someone for being so mind-bogglingly reckless with their firearm that they accidentally killed their coworker is not one of them.

Zano posted...

Without felony murder laws, many murder cases that involve groups of people might go unsolved. For example if three people rob a store and one of them shoots the clerk, it may be impossible to prove exactly which one shot. Felony murder laws help to avoid this situation by assigning blame to all three for participating in the original felony anyway.

Reminds me of a teacher punishing the entire class for the actions of one student, because they don't know who did it.

Shablagoo posted...

Im sure there are situations where applying this law makes sense but using it to absolve someone for being so mind-bogglingly reckless with their firearm that they accidentally killed their coworker is not one of them.

Exactly how I feel. If the cop doesn't get any punishment for his incompetence killing his own coworker, then this whole situation is a joke. Sure, punish the driver for the felony and for felony murder, but punish the cop who pulled the trigger too.

Funny how that level of standard is applied to criminals but not to the stupid fucking pigs that dont know how to fire their own weapon properly

Eat More Beef posted...

Stupid fucking conviction. Also, love to see the posters in this thread giving shit to a dude sitting in a car and not, you know, giving shit to the cop that killed the other cop.

Keep boot licking.

The topic is seemingly about the TC being upset about the application of felony murder charges, and posters responded saying that felony murder charges are perfectly applicable.

That's not excusing the police here. This is the correct implementation of the law regardless of if the police officer that shot the other one is punished in any way.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


They knew that people needed a getaway driver. Don't need one of those in ordinary, non-criminal matters.

K181 posted...

They knew that people needed a getaway driver. Don't need one of those in ordinary, non-criminal matters.

There is a difference between driving away from a robbery and driving away from a shooting. It's criminal regardless, but it's still pretty fucked to charge someone with murder who

A) Had nothing to do with the killing

And

B) Could have been ensured no one was going to be harmed. (Unless there is reason to believe the driver would be fully aware someone was going to die of course)

But all that aside, the cop should absolutely face punishment because they're the one who actually killed someone.

Felony murder statues have always been massive bullshit. Primarily because cops are bad at their fucking jobs and aren't held accountable for it. Just start shooting and if you hit a civilian or another cop, someone else goes down for it.

Umbreon posted...

There is a difference between driving away from a robbery and driving away from a shooting. It's criminal regardless, but it's still pretty fucked to charge someone with murder who

A) Had nothing to do with the killing

And

B) Could have been ensured no one was going to be harmed. (Unless there is reason to believe the driver would be fully aware someone was going to die of course)

But all that aside, the cop should absolutely face punishment because they're the one who actually killed someone.

Someone dying as a result of a robbery isn't some kind of shockingly unforeseeable scenario. I'd hardly give him a pass.

And metallica's post makes the guy getting a prison sentence for this all the more reasonable, too.

K181 posted...

Someone dying as a result of a robbery isn't some kind of shockingly unforeseeable scenario. I'd hardly give him a pass.

And metallica's post makes the guy getting a prison sentence for this all the more reasonable, too.

Oh no the getaway driver is still guilty.

Just not of murder.

Umbreon posted...

Oh no the getaway driver is still guilty.

Just not of murder.

That's why he wasn't charged with homicide, but with felony murder. This was the exact correct scenario to apply the situation to, whomever pulled the trigger doesn't matter as they played an instigating role in causing the entire situation.

For some reason I thought a murder charge required premeditation? While manslaughter did not?

K181 posted...

That's why he wasn't charged with homicide, but with felony murder.

He wasn't charged with murder, he was charged with murder! What the fuck am I reading?

So shouldn't all the people who were with Chavin be facing murder charges ?

K181 posted...

Someone dying as a result of a robbery isn't some kind of shockingly unforeseeable scenario. I'd hardly give him a pass.

Maybe in a normal robbery But the robbers didnt even have real guns The one inside had a fake gun So, chances are the driver (and other robber) probably had no intention of someone even getting hurt, much less dying

TheChariot6 posted...

He wasn't charged with murder, he was charged with murder! What the fuck am I reading?

From the article:

Freeman, a 28-year-old from Jamaica, became the second man convicted for the murder of NYPD Detective Brian Simonsen following Mondays verdict. The jury, which deliberated for nearly six full days, found him guilty of nearly all the charges against him, including felony murder, robbery, assault and grand larceny. The jury did not find Freeman guilty of a weapons charge prosecutors brought against him.

Felony murder is a different offense than murder/homicide.

Ruvan22 posted...

For some reason I thought a murder charge required premeditation? While manslaughter did not?

No. Manslaughter is for being wreckless or negligent in one's own actions. Premeditation is the difference between different degrees of murder charges (which, to again clarify, is different from felony murder).

K181 posted...

No. Manslaughter is for being wreckless or negligent in one's own actions. Premeditation is the difference between different degrees of murder charges (which, to again clarify, is different from felony murder).

Ahh thanks - what's the difference between felony murder and "regular" murder?